Ascend vs AV123 in 300 dollar range [Archive] - Audioholics Home Theater Forums

kazza2ud

07-11-2008, 07:49 PM

I currently have 2 old sony bookshelf speakers, and I'm considering two options.

1) Use them as L and R and buy a nice center
2) Use them as surrounds and buy possibly 3 170s for L/C/R

My question is if I wanted to save money and go for option (1), or even if I go for option (2), can I use a 170 as a center? It's a big fat squarish speaker.. I'm not sure where it would fit. I have heard so many good things about Ascend but I find their selection of centers to be limiting, there's the 200 you can knock over on its side but is less quality, or the 340 which is probably way more than I need.

So my subquestion is if I'm looking for decent quality speakers that aren't too bright, that can handle a fair amount of bass (since I won't have a sub), is Ascend a good choice, and what do you guys think of this setup/choice of a center? I know there are other good brands like Axiom and Athena etc. And one final bit of thought, since I'll have to get speaker stands anyway, is it worth looking into a relatively cheap tower speaker that's more of a...bookshelf speaker on a stand, if you know what I mean.

j_garcia

07-11-2008, 08:08 PM

Absolutely you can use a 170 as a center - that is why they sell singles. These guys don't really handle a lot of bass though. They go low, but not low enough to me, and long term I wouldn't use them without a sub. If the plan is to add a sub, then by all means...

If you want more low end for the money IMO, the Encore X-LS from www.av123.com should do the trick. They also have towers that aren't much more.

Athena doesn't exist anymore.

IMO a cheap tower doesn't buy you anything over a better quality bookshelf, however in the price range that we are talking about - when you include stands, yes you are at the point where you could get comparable quality in a tower vs bookshelf w/stands. Note though, the stands can be reused for your next speaker, so they aren't just going to go away - you still have that cost up front for the stands though.

kazza2ud

07-11-2008, 08:38 PM

I may add a sub later, I'm not sure. I was originally going to spend like 450 bucks on a Klipsch Quintet 2 and a yamaha sub, but then I stopped and thought, why am I being a consumer whore and buying into the hype of these systems with tiny little satellite speakers when I've never liked the sound of tiny speakers? So now I'm considering the above.

As for the Encore X-LS, are they recognized as quality speakers? (I've just started looking into all of this). I also noticed there is an x-sls encore which is the same thing but in a tower, for 50 bucks more per speaker. It says it has better bass.. is that because it has... well why would it?

Is it a general consensus that Encore is near the quality of Ascend?

(Also, I'm intending this system mostly for movies and games)

kazza2ud

07-11-2008, 09:02 PM

This is what I found in another forum

"The Ascend 170SE's is going to be the ideal choice if you are looking for an incredibly neutral speaker that can render exceptionally clean and clear dialog. Special effects such as bullets whizzing by are rendered very well with these speakers. This clarity comes at the expense of dynamic "oomf". While the bass is clean and clear - theres not a whole lot of it.

The Onix XL-S is a good all around speaker. Its built very well and looks pretty good to boot. It has a warm and laid back presentation that makes for great two channel listening. While the XL-S has good detail and surprising dynamic range, its laid back character translates into subdued special effects during action films."

I think onix is the same as AV123, i think.

calnbs

07-11-2008, 09:36 PM

The answer is yes Onix and AV123 are the same. AV123 X-series are nice speakers. Their build are top notch for the price you pay for. Go the their website and ask for an audition or you can just order them and if you are not happy, they will give you a full refund (including shipping).

Here is a review from Home Theater on their older model. The newer model is suppose to be much better but it does cost a little more than the previous model. I believe the x-series are on sale right now.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/707onix/

kazza2ud

07-11-2008, 09:58 PM

The only ones I see at av123.com are the encores, but most reviews are using the classic models, so it's confusing.

I'm having trouble finding a comparison between the encore x-sls tower and the 170SE.

I'm also torn between using my old stereo speakers and just getting a new center, getting new speakers for L/R and using the old ones as rear channels, and a phantom center, or getting all new L/R/C.

Another concern is that if I get Encores, I'd later have to choose between a 130 dollar center and a 400 dollar center, if I want to get the same brand.

haha i'm dazed and confused

mazersteven

07-11-2008, 10:04 PM

1) Use them as L and R and buy a nice center

IMO this is not even an option.

jostenmeat

07-11-2008, 10:05 PM

haha i'm dazed and confused

You obviously have done at least a healthy amount of research. The rest can only be answered by you. If you weren't dazed and confused, it would mean you haven't researched quite enough. :p

Ive brought up the point of stands' costs many times, including here at audioholics. I think one of the best attributes of bookshelves is the ability to mount them higher as surrounds to fire over blocking furniture.

My friend bought some 170s on my rec. He loves their clarity. One really nice thing about ID is the ability to buy single speakers for centers. Its really the ideal thing to do, having a vertical speaker for center, let alone truly matching the soundstage.

If you are considering the l/c/r, then I vote you do it. If I could vote for another option, I say phantom towers if only to possibly get a better pair of speakers.

Just to confuse you more, I like PSB Images for the money. Towers for $500, b25 bookshelves for $300, or smaller b15s for $230. Shipping is $25 from Saturday Audio, but you can't buy single speakers perhaps? If you think Ascend 170 is big, just wait till you see the b25. I say they are warmer for sure, perhaps a very slight veil (but Im used to expensive speakers), and their best attribute is the ability to crank it to high hell with ease. Not as clear as Ascend. Looks are a push, slight edge to PSB, but it won't win a beauty contest.

mazersteven

07-11-2008, 10:09 PM

So my subquestion is if I'm looking for decent quality speakers that aren't too bright,

brands like Axiom and Athena etc.

Both get reviews of being bright (or forward).

Axiom - Titanium tweeters
Athena - 1" Aluminum Dome, 1" Teteron Dome

jaxvon

07-11-2008, 10:35 PM

Both get reviews of being bright (or forward).

Axiom - Titanium tweeters
Athena - 1" Aluminum Dome, 1" Teteron Dome

"Brightness" is merely a function of the individual tweeter and crossover design. The material used to manufacture the diaphragm is irrelevant.

To stay on the topic, the CBM-170SE is a a great little speaker. It has very flat frequency response, is very neutral, and isn't of great cost. The drivers and crossover are of great quality. The off axis response isn't great though, so you might not get the most even sound throughout the room. The cabinets lack any sort of bracing, which definitely presents a problem in terms of fidelity. The undamped resonances from the panel walls will color the sound in such a way that masks the midrange and midbass. As much as it sounds like I am disparaging this speaker, it is of no lower quality than most commercial speakers, ID or dealer-only, and because of its high quality drivers and crossover coupled with a low price, it is a phenomenal value. As a bonus, with modifications, you can turn the CBM-170SE into a nearly perfect near-midfield monitor, provided you are pairing it with stereo subwoofers.

mazersteven

07-11-2008, 11:04 PM

"Brightness" is merely a function of the individual tweeter and crossover design. The material used to manufacture the diaphragm is irrelevant.

There is definitely a difference, both in theory and practicality. In order to vibrate quickly enough to reproduce the top octaves, designers must choose a material that has a very high stiffness value, and very low mass. The stiffness of the material allows the tweeter to reproduce the highest octaves cleanly, without distortion, or dome breakup. A low mass is required for proper high frequency extension (the tweeter needs to vibrate pretty fast to play at 20khz), and transients.
Metal domes (aluminum, titanium, etc.) have a very high stiffness/mass ratio and exhibit the best pis tonic movement of any material. However, metal, as you may know, also suffers from a complete lack of self-damping. Imagine a bell. After you''ve struck its metal sides, it continues to ring for seconds beyond the time of impact. On the other hand, stamp on your carpeted floor. You''d hear a thump at the moment of impact, but no drawn-out sound. The same can be said of metal tweeters. Although they have a high stiffness/mass ratio, they lack internal damping and suffer from "ringing" which can be seen in a simple impulse response curve. Designers, wanting to take advantage of metals'' high stiffness/mass ratio, have come up with a number of ways to deal with a metal''s lack of internal damping, with varying degrees of success. One way is to apply damping material to the metal''s surface, but that of course, raises the mass of the tweeter and consequently lowers the tweeter''s stiffness/mass ratio. Other designers have sought their own creative ways to tune the tweeter and push the ringing into the ultrasonic frequencies above 20khz, again with varying degrees of success. This ringing will still be detectable by an impulse response, but these designers claim that the ringing is ultrasonic and inaudible to the human ear.

Another option is silk fabric, which does have significant internal damping but does not have as high a stiffness/mass ratio as metals do. An impulse response curve of properly designed silk tweeter will usually show no ringing.

Qualitatively, a metal dome tweeter will sound very detailed (while critics of metal domes say they usually suffer from being bright.) Silk domes, on the other hand, are said to have more of a "smooth" sound.

speakerman39

07-11-2008, 11:17 PM

It has been said many times that the 170's are just as good, if not better, than the Paradigm Studio 20 v.3's. To be honest, I have never heard the 170's, but if this is true they are a tremendous bargain. For those that have had the chance to hear them both it appears the 20's do have better bass extension and are a bit more articulate in the upper midbass region. At least, this is what I have concluded given my own personal research into that claim. The way I see it, if the 170's are even 75% as good as the 20's given their respective price points, then the 170's would have to be one of the true GIANT killers we all read about. My vote is to go for it. Hope this helps and good luck with your decision.

Cheers,

Phil

kazza2ud

07-11-2008, 11:56 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Yeah if I thought I would be getting a subwoofer sometime soon, I would just go with the Ascends for sure. But since I'll probably be living in an apartment for a while, and probably won't have the luxury of cranking a sub, I'm leaning towards the X-sls encore tower, because it supposedly has better bass. Obviously it'd be nice to have the clarity of the Ascends, but I guess I need to compromise somewhere.

It'd be nice if there was a review of the X-sls Encore somewhere.. I really can't find one..

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 12:09 AM

LOL I tried again to find a review of the X-sls Encore and I got to about page 5 of google then it all turned french because of "encore"

I can't believe it's so hard to find.

mazersteven

07-12-2008, 12:13 AM

I have only heard the x-mtm towers, and was impressed by their sound quality for a budget tower. From what I've read port plugging will help with the bass.

http://av123.com/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,245/category_id,16/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 12:27 AM

Sorry hope I'm not post spamming but the conclusion of my previous post left me with this dilemma. I may eventually just order both and see what I like, but my hands are tied for a month so I'd still like to see what you guys think.

I'm considering the CBM-170SE vs the Encore X-SLS tower, since they're both around 300 a pair. At the present I don't have a sub and living in an apartment would make it difficult to enjoy a sub anyway. I mainly need good volume at around average levels of listening, I probably won't be cranking it up or needing to fill a large space.

As a side question, does anyone know if the encore towers actually sound better than their bookshelf-size counterparts? I read somewhere the larger cabinet gives more low end, is that true?

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 12:32 AM

port plugging the Ascends? Anyone ever try that?

Matt85

07-12-2008, 12:49 AM

I've not heard AV123, but I have Ascend CBM 170SEs and I think that they are fantastic speakers.

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 01:00 AM

are you running them with a sub? I heard the encores have better bass. Maybe I'll just get the 170s and pair them with a sub eventually, though I'd have to run it low if I'm still in an apartment. I was also liking how the encore towers didn't need a stand. I don't know I think I've researched all I can. I need a break. Thanks for replies everyone.

mike c

07-12-2008, 01:02 AM

i have merged your threads kazza.

please do not start a new thread on the same topic: which is the speakers you are deciding on.

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 01:04 AM

haha ok, sorry. I couldn't figure out how to change the thread title, thanks.

mazersteven

07-12-2008, 06:45 AM

As a side question, does anyone know if the encore towers actually sound better than their bookshelf-size counterparts? I read somewhere the larger cabinet gives more low end, is that true?

The towers don't sound "Better" then their bookshelf-size counterparts. They just sound different. And yes they have "more low end". That's the difference.

Matt34

07-12-2008, 07:02 AM

If you can wait a couple months I'll be selling my X-LS bookshelves in satin black along with a X-CS, and a pair of X-SLS floorstanders in MRS.

I think the X-SLS is probably one of the best deals running as far as cheap floorstanders go. I'm going a different route and just won't have the room for them.

OP, look up user WmAx and find his speaker recomendations for the Behringer bookshelves that run around $130/pr.

WmAx

07-12-2008, 12:27 PM

The Behringer B2030P, at $130/pair, ironically, is superior for perceived sound quality(as correlated with the credible perceptual research studies on large sample groups of trained listeners) as compared to the offering discussed in this thread so far. It's also built better - which I know you might find hard to believe - and I also found it hard to believe. I did a complete measurement set on this device - and it has measured behavior that is previously unknown to this price range. Behringer has some tremendous bargains that I guess are only made possible by owning their own massive Chinese production facility. Behringer is a German company and many years ago they made their products in Germany. Then they shifted to out-sourcing products to be made in China, but suffered huge quality control issues. They are still fending off a reputation for poor quality control after this, but I don't believe it is a big problem anymore. Over the years I have owned(and still own most of the original gear) around 10-12 Behringer products so far and one (an old microphone back from the era when they contracted stuff out to a 3rd party factory) has stopped working. They finally built their own factory(so large, it's referred to as Behringer City) adorned by the living habitat of it's employees surrounding the facility. Most of their products are built/fabricated in this facility now. Most of my Behringer products are from the era of the dedicated Behringer Chinese factory - and none of these units have failed. Now, don't get me wrong: they have some stinker products. But they also have some extraordinary ones, and those are the ones that I purchase and recommend.

-Chris

STRONGBADF1

07-12-2008, 02:13 PM

WmAx

07-12-2008, 02:25 PM

Hi Chris,

How well do The Behringer B2030P work in a HT application vs as a studio monitor?

SBF1

They work fine in either capacity. They should be crossed at >80Hz and used with a subwoofer or two, regardless of the use.

They should also have some basic modifications done in order to fix some details over looked during assembly - and these are things common on many mass market speakers that should be fixed for ideal performance. For example: the magnetic can shield on the back of the midbass may rattle - a common problem on many speakers I have found. It can easily be fixed by using some common liquid super glue: squirt a bead of the liquid around the seam of the shield can and motor and it will seep into the crack, harden, and take up the space in that joint preventing the vibration/rattle from being able to occur. Another issue is an air leak that can be fixed with some common rope caulk, or better, some speaker sealing putty(available from Parts Express I believe). You could even go beyond these two things, and replace the internal dampening with a better quality material. Most speakers use insufficient internal acoustic dampening/stuffing and the B2030P is no exception.

-Chris

gkelly

07-12-2008, 03:18 PM

I too have been looking at av123 x-series speakers. The prices on the site are amazing, and there are glowing reviews all over the place for av123. However, the price moves up towards the average when you add in their shipping charges. They clearly state why this is so on their website, so I won't repeat it here, but just keep in mind that av123 prices need to be looked at with shipping included in order to fully compare prices. (For example, a pair of x-mtm towers is listed as $300 or $400, but Yellow freight shipping is $320 [at least for my zip code]). Don't get me wrong; quality shipping is very important here, just don't ignore the cost.

On that note, anybody know of an av123 retailer? As far as I could find, they are direct only.

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 03:23 PM

Yea I'm actually not going to buy anything until probably September, I'm just thinking ahead. So yea Matt definitely send me an email (kazza2ud@gmail.com) if you're thinking of getting rid of those.

I guess since I won't have a sub I'm leaning towards the X-SLS encores. Behringer needs more than one advocat, lol. I'm sure their good but they're barely mentioned online. I did find one user who said they rattled. But I mean if they don't put glue in the cracks there, what else don't they do? They should get included in more side-by-sides. Maybe I'll try em out one day, but now I need good low end so I don't notice the absence of a sub that much.

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 03:50 PM

Wow I had no idea it cost so much to ship them. It would be 130 dollars to ship UPS Ground. Wow. Yea I might go with Ascend now, I don't know, I'll have to think on it. If I got B-stock 170s it would be 100 bucks less.

Matt34

07-12-2008, 04:44 PM

For $300 here's what I would go with, in fact this may become my future computer desk setup.

Pair of the Behringer B2030P monitors $130+ shipping

Dayton Sub-12 subwoofer $155+ shipping

Matt34

07-12-2008, 04:47 PM

As far as I could find, they are direct only.

That is correct, internet direct only company, unless you live close to their headquarters in Colorado.

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 05:10 PM

Why don't they at least sell their stuff on amazon, that's like my first-line research tool for buying anything online.

Matt34

07-12-2008, 05:22 PM

Why don't they at least sell their stuff on amazon, that's like my first-line research tool for buying anything online.

I'll wager $100 that there is not one so called reviewer on amazon that does a more thorough testing of equipment than WmAx does. He won't recommend a product he has tested himself or has 3rd party measurements to back up his claims.

If your really serious about sound, which you must be if your on this site, who you going to trust more when it comes to audio, Audioholics or Amazon?

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 05:44 PM

yea point taken. I just wonder why they don't try to take advantage of the popularity of amazon. Because unless you're crazy like me, you won't research speakers straight for days and try to understand the different sides of the market.

I think someone on this thread suggested the Behringers with a sub. Any feelings on what's best in an apartment considering bass has to be within reasonable levels, bigger main speakers without a sub or smaller mains with a sub?

jostenmeat

07-12-2008, 06:21 PM

Apartment most likely means towers are unnecessary, outside of atypical usages such as serious volumes, or pipe organ listening perhaps warranting a dedicated mid-range driver in a three way speaker.

If for any amount of serious HT usage, the LFE is its own discrete channel meaning that mains only means you miss out on a lot. So, you might consider budgeting for transducer(s). They work very well from all accounts. Check out Buttkicker and Earthquake. You can run them together with a sub, and perhaps disable the sub for late night. They are easy to install, and are more than just full-blown-on or off, but will give you varying amounts of shake 'n rumble along with the volumes of movie playback. The neighbors will never notice a thing.

50/50 music/HT? If mostly HT, Id go the way of transducers in your situation. My preliminary opinion anyway.

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 06:49 PM

how feasible are transducers, dont they require their own amp. it's probably over my budget. maybe i'll just go with the x-ls encores. i was just thinking the towers would have better bass. you think it's overkill for an apartment?

jostenmeat

07-12-2008, 07:15 PM

I guess I should have been more clear and articulate, rather than presuming certain understandings.

I guess I was implying that towers as full range AND sub in an apartment are overkill (and that's just HT, don't want that particular setup for music due to phase & amplitude issues). Such a setup is almost always overkill in most any room due to the way room acoustics work it appears. I guess I also must repeat what I said previously, that the LFE (sub) is its own discrete output. So, this differs from music listening where towers will more or less be doing the same things as sats + sub. For movies, this is not the case. Do you understand?

Do you also understand why I asked you how much music vs movies? I think, generally speaking, sats + sub could be the wtg for better bass response (flexibility of placement of sub), and besides, getting that LFE. But then, LFE could bother neighbors, and hence my idea of checking out transducers. OTOH, bookshelves may incur extra costs in stands, perhaps negating the reason to get them to begin with. Or at least part of the reason.

We can't decide for you because we aren't you. It has to please your needs. If you don't share these needs, then there's not a whole that I can personally add. I think anyways.

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 08:23 PM

Well I guess the plan was I would get towers and not a sub to compromise the bass in an apartment. Yea I understand about the LFE, I would imagine I'll mostly be using it for HT and games, with some music on the side (so yes I would be missing out on the LFE). I also realize towers save money on stands which is another reason that was the plan. But after realizing the X-SLS are $430 shipped, vs $250 shipped for the X-LS, I'm now beginning to think I'll just get the bookshelves, and depending on my living situation, maybe add a sub later. When I thought it was $100 more, it seemed like a good option, especially with that extra low end, but for $180 more, man, I'll just get some cheapo stands and take my girl out to a couple of restaurants lol.

But yea I'm still throwing it all around in my head. I really appreciate your input it's helping a lot.

jostenmeat

07-12-2008, 08:39 PM

Welcome. Like with others here, I really think there are a lot of benefits to adding a piece at a time. Depending on how small your room is, and how modest the volumes could be, I might combine savings, forgo subwoofer, and get a transducer. You could set the x-over point lower in such a case... but it could be a stretch depending. Perhaps worth experimenting with. I know I would in your case. :) It won't be 100% ideal, but the room will look even cleaner without sight of sub, your gf will jump into your lap out of fear, and your neighbors will still like you. :D

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 08:57 PM

Hahaha, well put. I don't know anything about transducers and am a bit tired of researching at the moment, but did read briefly that the buttkickers require their own amp, which is extra on top of the 200 bucks it costs for (I think) just 1 of them, so... do you have any idea how much it would cost for this little experiment, or any suggestions? And.. do these things actually produce sound or just vibrate, and do they work with any chairs or only special ones..?

Since I was thinking of going with the X-LSs now instead of the towers, if I got a transducer I'd still be missing a bunch of low-mid right? But yea I don't fully understand if the things make noise or just vibrate so.. I'll stop typing and let someone clarify.. haha.

And are you sure these things wouldn't be even WORSE than a sub, since it's all shaky-like..?

what about this cheapo one: http://www.amazon.com/Aura-Sound-Pro-Bass-Shaker/dp/B0002ZPTBI/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1215907230&sr=8-3

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 09:10 PM

ok i looked into it for like 5 mins. it seems like it'd be cool but, some people were like ehh it's more of a novelty, it can get annoying, certain soundtracks keep setting it off and you have to adjust the gain a bunch... seems like maybe it's not worth it, but go ahead and convince me if u can :D

mazersteven

07-12-2008, 09:27 PM

If your really serious about sound, which you must be if your on this site, who you going to trust more when it comes to audio, Audioholics or Amazon?

Bose (Learning Center) :D

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/learning/index.jsp&ck=0

kazza2ud

07-12-2008, 10:49 PM

what?

sdfsdfsfs

WmAx

07-13-2008, 12:07 AM

For $300 here's what I would go with, in fact this may become my future computer desk setup.

Pair of the Behringer B2030P monitors $130+ shipping

Dayton Sub-12 subwoofer $155+ shipping

Don't forget some sort of active crossover method. You must cross the Behringers over to the subs for proper integration. One solution is the Onkyo SR505 receiver. It is currently being sold for as low as $150 shipped, as a factory refurb.

-Chris

WmAx

07-13-2008, 12:13 AM

I'm sure their good but they're barely mentioned online. I did find one user who said they rattled. But I mean if they don't put glue in the cracks there, what else don't they do? They should get included in more side-by-sides. Maybe I'll try em out one day, but now I need good low end so I don't notice the absence of a sub that much.

However, you might be assuming that my recommendation is equal to the vast majority of others. My basis of recommendation is far more reliable: I make recommendations based on extensive measured behavior vs. human auditory perception(as dictated by the credible scientific texts in this field). I also am careful to outline the relevant factors/variables that can effect performance and practical use.

-Chris

kazza2ud

07-13-2008, 12:21 AM

how would you compare them to the X-LS? I guess both in terms of measurements and personal opinion? Are they carried in any local stores so I could have a listen or no? I guess I could order them from somewhere that has free shipping and a money back guarantee, and compare them -- you've got me interested

WmAx

07-13-2008, 12:25 AM

how would you compare them to the X-LS? I guess both in terms of measurements and personal opinion?

I do not know of any credible 3rd party measurement of the XL-S speakers. The measurements on the distributor web site are far too limited to get any useful data, and are of highly questionable accuracy even for the limited measurement provided. The Strata Mini from that same distributor was measured by the NRC and it measured almost nothing like the distributor measurements - and for the worse. The NRC: there is no higher credibility for 3rd party measurements of which I am aware.

Here is the AV123 supplied measurement response:
http://av123.com/images/M_images/strata_mini_on_axis_fr.gif?phpMyAdmin=YbJVjkIDoHbf GxM3KDJWoOYA8h9

Here is the real measured response(NRC):

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/av123_strata_mini/frequency_on1530.gif

-Chris

abboudc

07-13-2008, 12:57 AM

I do not know of any credible 3rd party measurement of the XL-S speakers. The measurements on the distributor web site are far too limited to get any useful data, and are of highly questionable accuracy even for the limited measurement provided. The Strata Mini from that same distributor was measured by the NRC and it measured almost nothing like the distributor measurements - and for the worse. The NRC: there is no higher credibility for 3rd party measurements of which I am aware.

Here is the AV123 supplied measurement response:
http://av123.com/images/M_images/strata_mini_on_axis_fr.gif?phpMyAdmin=YbJVjkIDoHbf GxM3KDJWoOYA8h9

Here is the real measured response(NRC):

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/av123_strata_mini/frequency_on1530.gif

-Chris

Those two graphs look *really* different, so i googled it and found a thread at av123 (it includes a link to a review with the NRC measurements):
http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=23153

Apparently the measurements were taken at different heights.

WmAx

07-13-2008, 01:09 AM

Those two graphs look *really* different, so i googled it and found a thread at av123 (it includes a link to a review with the NRC measurements):
http://www.av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=23153

Apparently the measurements were taken at different heights.

Even to assume the null is caused solely by the height difference(which means this speaker has terrible vertical response), even the ranges outside of the crossover region(4.1khz is the center of the xover point according to AV123), are very different, and extremely smoothed over. I can't place any trust in AV123's measurements, and besides, AV123 only shows impedance and on axis response, which is useless(far too limited amount of data) to determine anything even if it was accurate.

-Chris

abboudc

07-13-2008, 01:18 AM

Even to assume the null is caused solely by the height difference(which means this speaker has terrible vertical response), even the ranges outside of the crossover region(4.1khz is the center of the xover point according to AV123), are very different, and extremely smoothed over. I can't place any trust in AV123's measurements, and besides, AV123 only shows impedance and on axis response, which is useless(far too limited amount of data) to determine anything even if it was accurate.

-Chris

I wasn't disputing the usefulness or lack of granularity of the data, only the obvious huge discrepancy and a possible explanation for it. I'd expect the "smoothed" graph to look much more like the NRC graph, just with less resolution if both were taken the same way.

It's not surprising the mini is very directional vertically, as the entire speaker is "tipped back" and the tweeter is already facing what appears to be 20-30 degrees above level.

But we're getting way off topic :) The mini is like 2k and we're talking about $300 speakers here.

kazza2ud

07-13-2008, 01:34 AM

WmAx

07-13-2008, 02:34 AM

Oh I meant the X-LS Encore, not the classic, but i guess it doesn't matter, since neither are available. Has anyone here actually heard the 2030s and heard the X-LS Encore? Like, with human ears? Or, well WmAx, I know you're a big advocate of the 2030p's, so do you know anyone who actually went and bought them? What did they think?

There is one user on here that has the Ascend CBM-170 and the B2030P, along with Sierras and Aerials as well. But I don't know if he wants to respond. I'll message him and alert him to this thread.

-Chris

kazza2ud

07-13-2008, 02:36 AM

thanks :)

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Tex-amp

07-14-2008, 07:48 PM

randyb

07-14-2008, 09:01 PM

There is one user on here that has the Ascend CBM-170 and the B2030P, along with Sierras and Aerials as well. But I don't know if he wants to respond. I'll message him and alert him to this thread.

-Chris
I do have the 2030P as well as Sierra's and Aerial bookshelfs. I have had the Ascend 170 (not the SE's). Subjective comparisions can be problematic, but that being said, I do fell that the 2030P's (and mine were not modified) are at least as good as the Ascend 170's. They are extremely accurate to these ears but some might want to dampen the treble down a tad as they are like some other professional monitors-very unforgiving of poor recordings. Hope this helps. (FWIW, I don't see how they can make any money on these as some speakers cost more in shipping than these costs per pair-amazing bargain.