Great in-celing speakers?

[ElIngeniero]

Hi,

I have a Onkyo 805 receiver, an SVS PB10 sub and was looking at some of the speakercraft Aim8 in ceiling speakers & definitive technologies 1000 center. Could someone recommend a better speaker setup for roughly the same cost? I need in ceiling speakers because the wiring is already there (no front/in wall). That is why I chose the in ceiling speakercrafts which can tilt. Any recommendations?

[Midcow2]

Hi,

I have a Onkyo 805 receiver, an SVS PB10 sub and was looking at some of the speakercraft Aim8 in ceiling speakers & definitive technologies 1000 center. Could someone recommend a better speaker setup for roughly the same cost? I need in ceiling speakers because the wiring is already there (no front/in wall). That is why I chose the in ceiling speakercrafts which can tilt. Any recommendations?

You might also want to consider the Def Tech ceiling speakers. I have them for surround speakers and they are excellent. Look at theri UIW line:
http://www.definitivetech.com/loudspeakers/inwall_/inwall_inceiling_.html
I am not sure how thier price compares with the speakercraft Aim8s.

[Joe Schmoe]

Do you not have the space for freestanding speakers? They would give you much better sound (especially imaging.)

[DD66000]

I would not recommend in-ceiling speakers for the LCRs. I have never heard any in-ceiling LCR systems that were any good.
Even ones that tilt will never be as good as floorstanding or bookshelf, wall mount speakers. For surrounds they might be alright.

[Midcow2]

Do you not have the space for freestanding speakers? They would give you much better sound (especially imaging.)

Joe Schmoe is correct, you can get much better sound with free-standing. Just because you ceiling is pre-wired you don't have to use the pre-wireing.

[ElIngeniero]

I suppose I should have been clearer. The system is a 5.1 system. I am looking at the Aim8 ones for Front and back, the Deftech 1000 for the center, the svs for bass, onkyo 805 for receiver. I only have minimal understanding of speakers, systems, etc. so please keep the tips coming.

[ParadigmDawg]

With your constraints the Speakercraft Aim8's should do just fine. I would use all the same brand speakers for the LCR so you are timbre matched and get the backboxes.

Steven uses the SC all across (5.1) and seems to be fine with it.

[dorokusai]

I believe Speakercraft makes a real trick, motorized in-ceiling speaker that's cool. It doesn't help you but I thought that was neat since someone mentioned them :)

Mark
Polk Audio CS

[bandphan]

I would not recommend in-ceiling speakers for the LCRs. I have never heard any in-ceiling LCR systems that were any good.
Even ones that tilt will never be as good as floorstanding or bookshelf, wall mount speakers. For surrounds they might be alright.

:rolleyes:

while serious music listening lends its self to traditional speakers, there are however good inwall/ceiling speakers. Having heard focal, niles, speakercraft, martinlogan, B&W, along with several others i can say without a doubt that there are good if not great sounding custom speakers out there.

[Midcow2]

I suppose I should have been clearer. The system is a 5.1 system. I am looking at the Aim8 ones for Front and back, the Deftech 1000 for the center, the svs for bass, onkyo 805 for receiver. I only have minimal understanding of speakers, systems, etc. so please keep the tips coming.

Hey ElIngeniero, thanks for the clarification. One thing that is important, if you can accomplish it, is to match your fronts and center speakers to maintain timbre (seemless sound). In your case you might consider two options:

Option (1) Speakercraft AIM monitor center speaker if you have the AIM8s for front and back.

--- or---

Option (2) If you are going to use the Def Tech 1000 center consider Def Tech ceiling speakers.


Good Luck!

[mazersteven]

I would not recommend in-ceiling speakers for the LCRs. I have never heard any in-ceiling LCR systems that were any good.
Even ones that tilt will never be as good as floorstanding or bookshelf, wall mount speakers. For surrounds they might be alright.

Then you have never heard a properly set up in-ceiling system.

[mazersteven]

I recommend that if your going with Speakercraft Aim8's, to go with at least Aim8 Three's.

Also IMO you should go with a Speakercraft Aim8 for your center channel.

Click on my Webshots link to view my Speakercraft system.

[DD66000]

Then you have never heard a properly set up in-ceiling system.

That may be true, but if you're telling me that in-ceiling speakers are as good as quality floorstanding speakers, I'm not buying it.

[Joe Schmoe]

That may be true, but if you're telling me that in-ceiling speakers are as good as quality floorstanding speakers, I'm not buying it.

I agree 100%. Being above your head is a major handicap, since tweeters at ear level is ideal. Being flush with the ceiling instead of surrounded by air also limits the possibilities for imaging. Finally, an enclosure designed to fit in a ceiling cannot compare to a freestanding cabinet for volume or lack of resonance.

[ParadigmDawg]

Once again, his constraints are that he needs to use inceilings. The answer is yes, he can get very good sound from quality inceilings.

Dollar for dollar will an inceiling keep up with a true enclosed speaker...nope....

Will a quality inceiling outperform a low quality true speaker...yep...

[bandphan]

I agree 100%. Being above your head is a major handicap, since tweeters at ear level is ideal. Being flush with the ceiling instead of surrounded by air also limits the possibilities for imaging. Finally, an enclosure designed to fit in a ceiling cannot compare to a freestanding cabinet for volume or lack of resonance.

Ceiling speakers are NOT limited to flush mount only;) In a home theater application, again, there are several inceiling/wall that will out shine traditional ones. Since the OP wants them, lets stick to that.

[ParadigmDawg]

Ok, just for kicks, I just put in my favorite jazz CD, turned off my mains and listened to a song just using my inceilings and sub(never tried this before)The sound was quite detailed and sounded pretty good but just no way they can fill my 8,000 cubic foot room.

I think room size may play a major role in the sound you get out of the inceilings.

[DD66000]

Once again, his constraints are that he needs to use inceilings. The answer is yes, he can get very good sound from quality inceilings.
...

Very few situations (room layouts) require in-ceiling speakers. Just because a room has been pre-wired for in ceiling doesn't mean one has to use them.

I like to quote Dr Floyd E. Toole, VP of AE for Harman International.

"I accept ceiling speakers in airline terminals, and tolerate them in
“music everywhere” uses in homes.
I do not endorse ceiling speakers in multichannel music or home
theater systems."

"The challenge is to get people into situations where they can hear
good demonstrations of multichannel entertainment, using good
equipment. The entry-level in-wall/in-ceiling systems, and systems
with inadequate tiny surround speakers can be impressive if one is
easily impressed. However, those of us in the business need to show
customers that much better sound is possible, and sometimes for only
modest cost increases. Good in-wall speakers exist, but they are not
inexpensive. Ceiling speakers are for background music systems in
stores (I exaggerate, but only slightly). Ceiling speakers should never
be used for the front channels, and used for surround channels only in
homes that I am never invited to."

[bandphan]

I like to quote Dr Floyd E. Toole, VP of AE for Harman International.

"The entry-level in-wall/in-ceiling systems, and systems
with inadequate tiny surround speakers can be impressive if one is
easily impressed. Good in-wall speakers exist, but they are not
inexpensive.

WAF or esthitcs still play a role in ht. No one is gonna debate that in ceiling speakers are better than traditional ones for critical listening. Just a note: IMO there are some that have great floorstanding speakers, but if they havent been setup up correctly whats the point? I would invite you to listen to a well setup in ceiling system of quality speakers in a ht application(not BB or CC listening rooms) and report back on your definitive thoughts. My observations are based on accutual listening, all be it subjective.

[DD66000]

WAF or esthitcs still play a role in ht. No one is gonna debate that in ceiling speakers are better than traditional ones for critical listening. Just a note: IMO there are some that have great floorstanding speakers, but if they havent been setup up correctly whats the point? I would invite you to listen to a well setup in ceiling system of quality speakers in a ht application(not BB or CC listening rooms) and report back on your definitive thoughts. My observations are based on accutual listening, all be it subjective.

So true, I was in a new HT shop recently and the room was only about 12' wide. They had a 110" 2.35:1 screen, which left only about 15" or so between the screen and side walls. Of coarse, those 15" spaces were where the main L/R speakers sat.
Even though the spacing from speaker to speaker is wider than my s/s spacing by almost 2', the soundstage was much narrower than mine, as my mains are 4' from the side walls and over 3' from the end wall.
Compared to what I'm used to hearing, that soundstage just sucked.

As for the WAF, sometimes the hubby as to say, "this is how its going to be." I always did.
And I raised my daughter right, she likes big speakers.

[ParadigmDawg]

Mine did for the surrounds as I have no back wall.
Very few situations (room layouts) require in-ceiling speakers. Just because a room has been pre-wired for in ceiling doesn't mean one has to use them.

."

[DD66000]

Mine did for the surrounds as I have no back wall.

That's quite different from using in-ceilings for LCRs. And no back wall can be quite common.
When I built my HT/LR addition it was originally open to the DR at the back, but I only had a 5.2 system at the time.
So when I wanted to go to 7.2, I came up with the idea of building a pocket wall between the LR and DR that has an 8'-8" x 7'-0" elliptical archway, centered on the width of the HT. I installed a barn door track 8' above the floor and built a pair of 4'-5" wide doors fitted with ball bearing rollers.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii4/hifiguy268/dcp_0013.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii4/hifiguy268/dcp_0008.jpg

[ParadigmDawg]

I am afraid my house is too nice to do something like that but I am glad it worked for you.

[DD66000]

Well, the pics won't tell the whole thing. The archway being as big as it is still makes the entire area (LR, DR, kitchen) seem almost as open as it originally was, when the doors are hidden in the wall. Its a slight compromise, at the most. And the benefits over shadow the compromise.
I'm not saying the pocket wall concept is for everyone, or is even feasible in many cases, but it can be an option for some.

[ParadigmDawg]

I think my post above sounded self-indulgent and I didnt mean for it to...sorry...

My point is only that if you have constraints, you can make a system out of inceilings work just fine.Well, the pics won't tell the whole thing. The archway being as big as it is still makes the entire area (LR, DR, kitchen) seem almost as open as it originally was, when the doors are hidden in the wall. Its a slight compromise, at the most. And the benefits over shadow the compromise.
I'm not saying the pocket wall concept is for everyone, or is even feasible in many cases, but it can be an option for some.

[DD66000]

I think my post above sounded self-indulgent and I didnt mean for it to...sorry...

My point is only that if you have constraints, you can make a system out of inceilings work just fine.

We all have to work with what we have, and perfect doesn't exist in the world of audio, anyway. But in my case, adding that back wall got it a bit closer, being able to install all my surround speakers at the same height, plus being able to close off that room for movies.

[mazersteven]

Ok, just for kicks, I just put in my favorite jazz CD, turned off my mains and listened to a song just using my inceilings and sub(never tried this before)The sound was quite detailed and sounded pretty good but just no way they can fill my 8,000 cubic foot room.

I think room size may play a major role in the sound you get out of the inceilings.

Your in-ceilings aren't directional (pivoting) drivers are they? If you took a set of bookshelf speakers and pointed then straight down to the floor they wouldn't sound good either.

[ParadigmDawg]

Yes they are directional.Your in-ceilings aren't directional (pivoting) drivers are they? If you took a set of bookshelf speakers and pointed then straight down to the floor they wouldn't sound good either.