Axiom or AV123 Rocket

[foxnews]

which should I go with:

Axiom:
M80 + VP150 + QS8 + MFW-15 Subwoofer = $1,330 + $540 + $408 + $800 = $2,964
(including shipping and discount)

or

AV123:
Rocket RS760 + Rocket RSC200 + Rocket RSS300 + MFW-15 Subwoofer = $1,199 + $449 + $499 + $700 = $2861
(including shipping and discount)

[jamie2112]

The axioms are a little hard and brittle sounding on the hi mid and hi end. I have never heard the rockets but they are highly recommended. I listened to the Axiom stuff a few months ago and after seeing all the hype and then hearing them, I was far from impressed.

[rnatalli]

Both are great choices, but completely different animals. Here's my personal impressions. Axioms tend to favor the upper frequencies and I felt the vocals were further away. Rockets are the complete opposite where the vocals and midrange are favored over the upper frequencies. This doesn't mean Axioms don't have midrange and Rockets don't have highs. Just that the emphasis is different for each of these speakers.

[Midcow2]

Are you willing to consider any other options?:confused:

example ; Def Tech speakers (typically 20-30% off reatil)

BP7006 towers (retail each $649) 20%= $1038 30%= $908
BP2X surrounds (reatil each $269) 20%= $430 30%= $377
CLR2300 center (retail $649) 20%= $519 30%= $454

SVS subwoofer : SVS PB12plus - $900 retail assume 10% off $810

Total = $2,549 - $2,797

[trnqk7]

I've only heard the m60's from Axiom, but I got quite a favorable impression of them. They are accurate in the upper end, more so than some might be used to. The have very adequate bass and the mids sounded pretty good to me.

This isn't a knock against Rockets, I have no experience with them. Just wanted to put a plug in for Axiom. They make a very nice product.

[foxnews]

I plan to use these speakers for along time ( 10 years +). is there a quality diffence between av123 and Axiom? anyone opens up Rocket and see the quality of woofer and amp inside? I read review about axiom but av123 is too new.

[foxnews]

from av123 site, the spec didnot indicate watts on those rockets. anyone know the watts rating on these rocket? Also the efficiency is 87; is it low?

[rnatalli]

Are you willing to consider any other options?:confused:

I agree with this. With a $3k budget, you should get out and do some auditioning if you haven't already.

[foxnews]

I agree with this. With a $3k budget, you should get out and do some auditioning if you haven't already.

I like that also. but I feel that buying directly from online give me more bang for my bucks.

[Soundman]

from av123 site, the spec didnot indicate watts on those rockets. anyone know the watts rating on these rocket? Also the efficiency is 87; is it low?

I would not worry about the number of rated watts the speaker can handle. I was told from a representative at AV123 that they don't publish that spec. I can tell you that this is a no issue for Rocket speakers. They can handle just about anything you can throw at them. More amplification will really make them sing. I can assure you that they can handle alot more power then the Axioms. I've had both setups and...uh yeah, the Rocket's handled more. :D Really, it's not a deciding factor, but the Rocket's sure can handle alot. As for your question about built quality and wanting one that will last, I believe both companies are using good quality components, so both should last a long time. I would give the edge to the Rocket's though if I had to pick one simply because the materials are more durable. These are heavy speakers! :eek: You will also get a much better finish with the Rocket's as well, if that matters to you. All real wood veneers with high-glass piano plack endcaps. They look really nice, especially compared to the vinyl you'll get with the basic Axioms. Now axiom does have some nice finish options, but you will pay alot more for them, if you decide to upgrade.

Also, take a look at the center channels in each of these setups. If you are going to be doing alot of movie watching, I, again highly recommend the Rockets. The 'Bigfoot" center channel is just plain better than the vp150 is.

However, the most important factor here, is the type of sound you prefer. These 2 brands are night and day as far as how they sound. You'll need to audition and see which one you like better. I've had both, so thought I'd share my thoughts. Good luck. :)

[foxnews]

I would not worry about the number of rated watts the speaker can handle. I was told from a representative at AV123 that they don't publish that spec. I can tell you that this is a no issue for Rocket speakers. They can handle just about anything you can throw at them. More amplification will really make them sing. I can assure you that they can handle alot more power then the Axioms. I've had both setups and...uh yeah, the Rocket's handled more. :D Really, it's not a deciding factor, but the Rocket's sure can handle alot. As for your question about built quality and wanting one that will last, I believe both companies are using good quality components, so both should last a long time. I would give the edge to the Rocket's though if I had to pick one simply because the materials are more durable. These are heavy speakers! :eek: You will also get a much better finish with the Rocket's as well, if that matters to you. All real wood veneers with high-glass piano plack endcaps. They look really nice, especially compared to the vinyl you'll get with the basic Axioms. Now axiom does have some nice finish options, but you will pay alot more for them, if you decide to upgrade.

Also, take a look at the center channels in each of these setups. If you are going to be doing alot of movie watching, I, again highly recommend the Rockets. The 'Bigfoot" center channel is just plain better than the vp150 is.

However, the most important factor here, is the type of sound you prefer. These 2 brands are night and day as far as how they sound. You'll need to audition and see which one you like better. I've had both, so thought I'd share my thoughts. Good luck. :)


the Bigfoot is less stylish look than the VP150 (smaller and balanced look) but I am glad to hear that bigfoot sounds better which is what I care most.


from the external appearance, the Rockets are better. what about eletronic components inside? my concerns is that av123 spends more on the appearance and cut cost on the inside. and Axiom spend more money on the component inside than outside?

[fredk]

Foxnews. Go to Axioms website and post on the Hearing Things forum to see if there is anyone in your area that will give you an audition.

I have listened to the Axioms (ordered M80s) but not the rockets. From what I have read, the Axioms will give you a more detailed sound.

The issue with the amount of detail they give is that they are not so forgiving of poorly recorded material. The good stuff will sound really good, the poorly recorded stuff, not so good.

Some, like jamie2112 do not like the detail the M80s deliver. I often wonder to what extent the material listened to or a lively room (one with lots of bare, hard surfaces) come into play.

Can you tell us what you are going to be using the system for music (what type) movies ...?

Fred

[foxnews]

However, the most important factor here, is the type of sound you prefer. These 2 brands are night and day as far as how they sound. You'll need to audition and see which one you like better. I've had both, so thought I'd share my thoughts. Good luck. :)

the same music from CD or Movie sound tracks should sound the same regardless of which tool you use to play them. for example, if I record my voice, I would expect to hear the same regardless of speakers. are you're saying that my voice would sound differently when played on rocket vs axiom?

however, a poor quality speaker can not replicate the exact sound from the original source. a good speakers can get as close as to the real sound.

[foxnews]

Foxnews. Go to Axioms website and post on the Hearing Things forum to see if there is anyone in your area that will give you an audition.

I have listened to the Axioms (ordered M80s) but not the rockets. From what I have read, the Axioms will give you a more detailed sound.

The issue with the amount of detail they give is that they are not so forgiving of poorly recorded material. The good stuff will sound really good, the poorly recorded stuff, not so good.

Some, like jamie2112 do not like the detail the M80s deliver. I often wonder to what extent the material listened to or a lively room (one with lots of bare, hard surfaces) come into play.

Can you tell us what you are going to be using the system for music (what type) movies ...?

Fred


I would use 90% for movies. a good speaker should sound as much detail as possible. if the source is bad, then it is not speakers' fault. I don't expect the speakers to change the original sound from a source. just like when you take a picture, you would want to capture whatever the real scene is.

are you saying the Rockets have less detail and can't replicate as close as to the original source?

[fredk]

If you are concerned about power requirements you can go to the page linked to below to calculate what you need based on your setup and the sensitivity of your speakers.

I would use between 85db for the desired level at the lisener position unless you like your music loud. 15db will give you plenty of headroom for all but the most demanding recordings.

http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm

Fred

[foxnews]

I live in Charlotte, NC. anyone have Rockets, live there and are kind enough to show me your speakers?

[fredk]

That is my impression based on what I have read. "Laid back" usually means less detailed.

I have seen the Rockets compared to Paradigm Studio 100s as being slightly less detailed (upper end?). When the M80s are compared to the same Studios, they are characterized as more detailed (mids sometimes and upper end).

I am by no means suggesting the Rockets are not good speakers, just different.

Post on the hearing things forum and listen to the M80s. If you like what you hear, they are a great speaker for the price. If you don't like what you hear, move on.

Fred

[jamie2112]

The funny thing is I am a studio and live sound engineer and I like a horn to produce smooth hi end. The Axiom 80 does not have a smooth horn sound for my ears. I have had many listening tests with many speakers. The axioms sounded great in every way but the tweeter. The sound was harsh and compared to my B&W and sapphire speakers the top end was very harsh to my ears. We all have our own opinion and some of "us" dont like harsh hi end as it contributes to "listener fatigue" in most cases.

[abboudc]

which should I go with:

Axiom:
M80 + VP150 + QS8 + MFW-15 Subwoofer = $1,330 + $540 + $408 + $800 = $2,964
(including shipping and discount)

or

AV123:
Rocket RS760 + Rocket RSC200 + Rocket RSS300 + MFW-15 Subwoofer = $1,199 + $449 + $499 + $700 = $2861
(including shipping and discount)

Both setups are excellent. There are also other excellent choices in your price range such as Ascend, B&W, and Salk. The question you ask can only be answered by you though..each speaker presents a different sound and makes different compromises. It all depends on *your* listening preferences. And if you don't already have them, i'd add $45 for a Radio Shack SPL and $20 for a setup DVD like Avia. Best $65 you'll spend...

[rnatalli]

And if you don't already have them, i'd add $45 for a Radio Shack SPL and $20 for a setup DVD like Avia. Best $65 you'll spend...

Who has the Avia setup DVD for $20?

[Midcow2]

from av123 site, the spec didnot indicate watts on those rockets. anyone know the watts rating on these rocket? Also the efficiency is 87; is it low?

87 is about average a little low. The dB scale is logrithmic. 80 pretty bad, 90 average 100 very good. Most average AVRs will drive 87 dB with no problem.

[abboudc]

Who has the Avia setup DVD for $20?

Amazon has it new for $27.50, or the Rives audio one is $21.

[fredk]

jamie2112. Fair enough. I also know of a number of musicians, including myself, some of whom are professionals (not me) who rave about the sound of the M80. It continues to puzzle me as to why there is such a large range of opinion on these speakers.

I guess it just higlights the need to go out and listen to a bunch of different speakers before you buy.

Fred

[mazersteven]

From what I have read, the Axioms will give you a more detailed sound.



That is not true. Axiom's tweeter is just more forward then the Rocket's tweeter. Both speakers produce excellent sound reproduction. Just that the Axioms are what people call brighter, and the Rockets more neutral.

[mazersteven]

are you're saying that my voice would sound differently when played on rocket vs axiom?



Yes your voice would sound different. :eek:

[mazersteven]

for example, if I record my voice, I would expect to hear the same regardless of speakers.

Every speaker will have it's own sound quality, and sound characteristics. Driver, Crossover, Enclosure, all contribute to how a speaker sounds.

[mazersteven]

That is my impression based on what I have read. "Laid back" usually means less detailed.



Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm going to call on this one. "Laid Back" does not mean less detail. :rolleyes:

The term "Laid Back" is used when a speaker is more neutral sounding then forward.

[MUDSHARK]

I have also read the description of warm as opposed to laid-back. Neutral speakers can sound bright in untreated or hard rooms.

[fredk]

but I'm going to call on this one
Hmm. I have seen laid back, recessed and less detailed used in a similar manner though maybe not here. I got the impression bright and laid back were opposites. There is a definitions article somewhere on this site I need to look at.

Fred

[Soundman]

the Bigfoot is less stylish look than the VP150 (smaller and balanced look) but I am glad to hear that bigfoot sounds better which is what I care most.


from the external appearance, the Rockets are better. what about eletronic components inside? my concerns is that av123 spends more on the appearance and cut cost on the inside. and Axiom spend more money on the component inside than outside?

I would not worry about the inside of the Rockets. They sound as good as they look. The reason AV123 can offer products of this quality at this price point is because they own 3 warehouses worldwide, one in California, one in south america, and one in china. The wood used for the enclosures is built locally and built on site. This is a huge cost saving advantage.
As for the components inside, both companies are using good speaker design to build their speakers, they just sound different. I would like to comment on the detail of the Rockets. It's not that the Rockets are less detailed then the Axioms, just different.The Viffa tweeter used by the Rockets has actually one some awards (whatever that's worth). The high end is very detailed, it just sounds different then Axiom. They are a more neutral speaker,wheras the Axioms focus more on the high end frequencies, so if the room is not treated, they will sound harsh at high listening levels. I have owned both speakers, and this was my experience. Let me just say that you really just need to audition both and see what type of sound you prefer. If going Axiom though, you will need to treat the room. :)

[foxnews]

since RS 760 was rated at 87 efficiency, should I upgrade to RS 850 which is rated at 91 efficiency?

is efficiency important?

[Soundman]

since RS 760 was rated at 87 efficiency, should I upgrade to RS 850 which is rated at 91 efficiency?

is efficiency important?

To some degree, efficiency can have an effect, but I wouldn't base my decision of a certain speaker on that. If you really like the speaker, don't pass it up based on the efficiency. If you really need to, you can always add more amplification later. Most mid-range receivers, should be able to drive this speaker. Of course, more amplification is never a bad thing. :D
As for the 850's, due to the (4) midrange drivers, they offer a little more refinement in the midrange area. It's great for home theatre. Most of the audio track will fall in this region. However, for music, the 760's do great. Put something on with a nice kickdrum and they sound FANTASTIC! If you are using a sub, the bass isn't a big deal though. it's really the mid-range advantage of the 850's that's the deal breaker. You have to decide if it's worth the extra expense. Personally, I think it is, so I went with the 850's! But honestly, both of these speakers do an excellent job with music and movies. :)

[foxnews]

To some degree, efficiency can have an effect, but I wouldn't base my decision of a certain speaker on that. If you really like the speaker, don't pass it up based on the efficiency. If you really need to, you can always add more amplification later. Most mid-range receivers, should be able to drive this speaker. Of course, more amplification is never a bad thing. :D
As for the 850's, due to the (4) midrange drivers, they offer a little more refinement in the midrange area. It's great for home theatre. Most of the audio track will fall in this region. However, for music, the 760's do great. Put something on with a nice kickdrum and they sound FANTASTIC! If you are using a sub, the bass isn't a big deal though. it's really the mid-range advantage of the 850's that's the deal breaker. You have to decide if it's worth the extra expense. Personally, I think it is, so I went with the 850's! But honestly, both of these speakers do an excellent job with music and movies. :)

I noticed that RS 760 has 6.5" woofer while RS 850 has smaller 5.25" woofer.
should bigger woofers make speakers sound better (or more powerful) than small woofers do?

also RS760 has 2x 6.5" woofer and 2x 5.25" woofer. this is almost the same as Axiom M80 which has an extra 1" tweeter.

[Soundman]

I noticed that RS 760 has 6.5" woofer while RS 850 has smaller 5.25" woofer.
should bigger woofers make speakers sound better (or more powerful) than small woofers do?

also RS760 has 2x 6.5" woofer and 2x 5.25" woofer. this is almost the same as Axiom M80 which has an extra 1" tweeter.

This is not necessarily true. Every speaker is designed differently, and there are other factors that effect the sound besides the driver size. For example, the RS 850's have a bigger presence, just a bigger sound then the 760's do, due to the larger internal volume of the enclosure. However, the (2) 6.5 " woofers of the 760's do help it to produce some nice bass. So, if you were going to do music only with no sub, you might want to stick with the 760's because they might go slightly lower, but the overall presence, wide soundstage, and refined midrange, gives the edge to the 850's. If you are going to be using a sub, the 850's are the way to go, but as I mentioned before. They both sound really good, IMO. :)