Stereophile

[haraldo]

Anyone else fed up with Stereophile, I am !


I have been subscribing to Stereophile for a number of years and for a long time I found it to be interesting. However, lately I really start to wonder... And for each issue that drops into the mailbox... I wonder even more...

I can't remember the last time Sam Tellig did not write about Musical Fidelity or Triangle speakers in Sam's corner. I can't remember the last time there was an issue without Michael Fremer writing about ridiculously priced turntable product... Does this man have a problem with his ego? or another part :rolleyes:

It may be fine to read about esoteric products every now and then, but now Stereophile seem to loose touch with the regular gals and guys out there, or is it me that's out of touch.

It's been months now since I read a very interesting article in Stereophile, guess the last one was the review of Vandersteen quattro wood speakers......

And now they're reviewing Hansen Audio Prince, looks like quite ordinary 3 way speakers to me, with a $40.000 pricetag and what looks like ordinary Scan Speak drivers (Although they claim to be custom, and custom doesn't mean better!) The measured SPL response looks like Grand Canyon, and there's basically no critical remarks to these speakers.

Give me a break, what's wrong with those guys.... $40.000 speakers should cleanly blow everything away with a wide wide margin.....

Perhaps I'll renew my subscription just to have a monthly laugh

Cheers

Harald

[stratman]

Stereophile and Monster those two should get married.

[haraldo]

The new magazine: The Great Stereophile Monster

[Halon451]

You've got everything you need to get your A/V fix right here - and it's free. :D

Other mags are a little less pretentious too, if you do enjoy getting hard copy articles in the mail. It's not always convenient or possible to sit in front of the computer obviously.

[haraldo]

Yeah Audioholics magazine and these forums provides heaps more value than any magazine I've come through....

And the humor here is better too :p:p:p:p:p

[markw]

dunno about where you are but here in the good ole US of A they send out specials for subscriptions for about $13/year and even then they have problems getting people to go for it.

I get my fix of stereopile when Mrs W. and I go to Barnes & Noble, get a cuppa joe, and read all the latest magazines. Now, I 'd say that Stereopile is about worth it in that case.

Actually, the last time I went fore that I sent 'em a check for the amount. Thgeu hounded me for almost a year for payment, even after I said I paid it and sent them a copy of the cancelled check. The only reason they backed off is that I was able to hook up with John Marks and John Atkinson and they did wome inside calling. Although I don't always agree with what they say they are great guys but they work for a shitty periodical

[MUDSHARK]

Stereophile is just trying to target the passions of their subscribers. Many letters have been published pointing out dissatisfactions similar to yours. The publisher has responded that is where the passions of their readership falls (tables, tonearms, etc...). Stereophile has a very different market than AH.

[markw]

Stereophile is just trying to target the passions of their subscribers. Many letters have been published pointing out dissatisfactions similar to yours. The publisher has responded that is where the passions of their readership falls (tables, tonearms, etc...). Stereophile has a very different market than AH.So does Penthouse but the letters they print beat the heck outta the ones stereopile gets, ... or at least prints. ;)

[Seth=L]

Where's Robert Harley when you need a good laugh.:D

[MUDSHARK]

I thought Harley published The Absolute Sound:confused: I could be wrong.

[Seth=L]

I thought Harley published The Absolute Sound:confused: I could be wrong.
Yeah, but these magazines are becoming all one in the same. Snake oil lies on the surface of the pages.:D

[analogcorner]

Haraldo, you sound like a very bitter guy.

If you can't remember the last time I reviewed an inexpensive turntable, or a budget priced phono preamplifier or an inexpensive cartridge you must have Alzheimers.

I have no problems with my ego. It's quite healthy and therefore my stereo system, my car, my watch (etc.) are not involved in my self worth. As for my "other part," it's been put to extremely good use over the years. Your suggestion that somehow I compensate for feelings of penile inadequacy with audio gear is an act of transparent projection I find extremely amusing.

If you enjoyed the recent Vandersteen review, consider that I reviewed the original Quattro, which is less expensive. But you're not likely to because you have some kind of axe to grind, so grind away oblivious to reality.

Stereophile reviews products in all price categories. I review products in all price categories. I reviewed a $400+ USB based Pro-Ject turntable in the last issue. I just finished up a review of an inexpensive Rega P3-24 turntable. It's cheap and good--for the money. So whatever you're talking about is exiting from you butt.

I read the car magazines and when they cover Ferraris, and Porsches and Maseratis, people tend to enjoy the reviews. It's only in audio that we end up with so many jealous wankers and where so many try to level the playing field by claiming "it all sounds the same," and that when you spend more you get less.

Grow up, audio is no different than food, wine, cars, clothes, you name it. Unfortunately, usually, the more you pay, the better the quality. That's a fact of life. I can't afford a Ferrari or a Maserati but I'm not a bitter dweeb who needs to rationalize that I can't afford one by claiming it's no better than the car that I can afford.

If you think high performance audio is a "rip-off," or don't understand what goes into building and marketing limited edition, high performance audio gear, then by all means stop reading Stereophile, get some plastic speakers, some lamp cord, an MP3 player and have a blast! Stereophile is a magazine about high performance (not necessarily high priced) audio.

-Michael Fremer
senior contributing editor, Stereophile

PS: If I've offended anyone, it's been my pleasure. CHEERS!



Anyone else fed up with Stereophile, I am !


I have been subscribing to Stereophile for a number of years and for a long time I found it to be interesting. However, lately I really start to wonder... And for each issue that drops into the mailbox... I wonder even more...

I can't remember the last time Sam Tellig did not write about Musical Fidelity or Triangle speakers in Sam's corner. I can't remember the last time there was an issue without Michael Fremer writing about ridiculously priced turntable product... Does this man have a problem with his ego? or another part :rolleyes:

It may be fine to read about esoteric products every now and then, but now Stereophile seem to loose touch with the regular gals and guys out there, or is it me that's out of touch.

It's been months now since I read a very interesting article in Stereophile, guess the last one was the review of Vandersteen quattro wood speakers......

And now they're reviewing Hansen Audio Prince, looks like quite ordinary 3 way speakers to me, with a $40.000 pricetag and what looks like ordinary Scan Speak drivers (Although they claim to be custom, and custom doesn't mean better!) The measured SPL response looks like Grand Canyon, and there's basically no critical remarks to these speakers.

Give me a break, what's wrong with those guys.... $40.000 speakers should cleanly blow everything away with a wide wide margin.....

Perhaps I'll renew my subscription just to have a monthly laugh

Cheers

Harald

[AdrianMills]

Ah, the cable dude with the infamous attitude.

I'm a little out of touch, whatever happened with the Randi challenge?

:D

As for the subject at hand, I generally find that the contents of Stereophile to be about as useful as a house brick made of putty.

Having said that, Kal's contributions to various online forums are generally very good and useful. I just wish he'd own up to his objectivist leanings and stop pandering to subjectivist plonkers; oh well, I guess it pays well.

Oh, and up yours too. ;)

Haraldo, you sound like a very bitter guy.

If you can't remember the last time I reviewed an inexpensive turntable, or a budget priced phono preamplifier or an inexpensive cartridge you must have Alzheimers.

I have no problems with my ego. It's quite healthy and therefore my stereo system, my car, my watch (etc.) are not involved in my self worth. As for my "other part," it's been put to extremely good use over the years. Your suggestion that somehow I compensate for feelings of penile inadequacy with audio gear is an act of transparent projection I find extremely amusing.

If you enjoyed the recent Vandersteen review, consider that I reviewed the original Quattro, which is less expensive. But you're not likely to because you have some kind of axe to grind, so grind away oblivious to reality.

Stereophile reviews products in all price categories. I review products in all price categories. I reviewed a $400+ USB based Pro-Ject turntable in the last issue. I just finished up a review of an inexpensive Rega P3-24 turntable. It's cheap and good--for the money. So whatever you're talking about is exiting from you butt.

I read the car magazines and when they cover Ferraris, and Porsches and Maseratis, people tend to enjoy the reviews. It's only in audio that we end up with so many jealous wankers and where so many try to level the playing field by claiming "it all sounds the same," and that when you spend more you get less.

Grow up, audio is no different than food, wine, cars, clothes, you name it. Unfortunately, usually, the more you pay, the better the quality. That's a fact of life. I can't afford a Ferrari or a Maserati but I'm not a bitter dweeb who needs to rationalize that I can't afford one by claiming it's no better than the car that I can afford.

If you think high performance audio is a "rip-off," or don't understand what goes into building and marketing limited edition, high performance audio gear, then by all means stop reading Stereophile, get some plastic speakers, some lamp cord, an MP3 player and have a blast! Stereophile is a magazine about high performance (not necessarily high priced) audio.

-Michael Fremer
senior contributing editor, Stereophile

PS: If I've offended anyone, it's been my pleasure. CHEERS!

[mudrummer99]

Well Mr. Fremer welcome to Audioholics :D I for one am a subscriber of Stereophile and do enjoy reading about all the stuff I can't afford (whether by financial constraints or wife enforcement).
I do like your point about cars, I get very tired of people complaining about the prices of equipment reviewed in many of the magazines out there (Stereophile, The Absolute Sound, etc...) since it is always nice to read about the new designs and innovations going into high-end, flagship type units. Why since I personally will probably never own them except for the off chance that a dump truck backs up to my house and unloads some money someone didn't want anymore? Trickle down. That's it, trickle down. Most companies, no matter what their field of expertise, like to find a way to integrate their best technologies into lower end products after a few years and the R&D has been recouped. It's always exciting to me to see what kind of tech I will one day be able to afford, even if my system never edges over $5k.
I am also pleased that you do review quite a bit of equipment that is in my price range. While I do get what some of your readers write in and complain about (mainly the ones that say you never review affordable EQ) whereas I would like to see a larger percentage of your reviews to reflect a more realistic view of what is available on the market (i.e. there are fewer $30k/pr. speakers than $500/pr. so I would like to see say 5 $500/pr. for every 1 $30k/pr reviews) I understand that you guys get just as excited for the new tech as I would in your situation. I also understand you don't always have full control of what you review as well.
I'm glad you and many of your colleagues have a tougher skin about this since there will always people that want to read about the $30k/pr. speakers and $60k TTs. While I may not aggree with needing $2k interconnects for your system, I don't tear into those that do, to each their own. It's their money, let them spend it their way. But as far as Stereophile goes, I will gladly renew for years to come. Keep up the good work on letting us see what is coming down the pipe, I for one am glad you keep us informed.

Mike

[haraldo]

Haraldo, you sound like a very bitter guy.

Certainly not, I'm actually happier than ever :D
Can't tell you why :cool::cool:

And I thank you for taking the time for this post, I am actually glad to get a response directly from a senior contributing editor !

But you really didn't address my main concern, I think the balance on which products you review is not there.
I can hardly open you magazine without MF or Triangle all over it
Or perhaps it's my Alzheimer's that come to play?:rolleyes:
Thanks for that quick diagnosis !

If you look into the readers letters there seem to be an increasing amount of people with similar opinions on the lack of balance....

What you do and the choices is of course up to you, but to what extent do you actually address the readers opinions of Stereophile? Are you in touch with the majority of the readers or are you getting out of touch?

I am not saying or implying anything, just asking.

Well, I guess I do have an attitude. I always speak from my heart and state my opinions. I that offends someone? fine, that's not my problem :cool:

And sometimes I come on perhaps too strong, I know :eek::eek:
Certainly not intentional to offend you, sorry!

And thinking about it, My post made Mr Fremer join the Audioholics society, welcome :-)

[AdrianMills]

I'm not sure if you guys get it, this "senior contributing editor" that is obviously representing his rag came in here to address valid criticisms and all he did was piss all over you. Seriously, are you a little star struck or something? The guy is a complete arse and it's not the first time he's shown that attitude online either.

[haraldo]

I'm not sure if you guys get it, this "senior contributing editor" that is obviously representing his rag came in here to address valid criticisms and all he did was piss all over you. Seriously, are you a little star struck or something? The guy is a complete arse and it's not the first time he's shown that attitude online either.

You know what, that's actually very fine.....

I'm a professional and has been for a long time. If I showed anything close to the attitude of the Stereophile editors I would be out of a job in one week.

Now I'm actually trying to show some courtesy, and see what comes back.

If Mr Fremer's only response to criticism will be arrogance and attacking his customers.....

Well it will not be me losing my job, but if Stereophile loses their reviewers, somebody will be without job :p

And Mr Fremer, you actually didn't answer any of my concerns
I didn't object to reviewing expensive equipment !!!!!

The thing is, when was the last time you didn't review or look into a player that was less than $40.000..... Sorry I forgot, I've got Alzheimer, somebody please help me?

If we keep our attitudes and all we get back is arrogance, who's an #¤¤%&&&"¤#¤

b.t.w. I never knew that Michael Fremer is an Audiophyte :eek: It's true because that's what his profile states.

[dragan]

I do not buy any print any more and I haven't in a long time. Have no intention to either, in the future. I never trusted any of them for anything other then to get some news, to see what's happening out there. For new (rare) purchases, I always relied on what I hear personally and how that makes me feel.

Dragan

[Seth=L]

I think Michael Fremer is funny, like a troll.:D There is only one person you could add to this thread that would make my day complete, and that's Robert Harley.:D

Oh, and Michael, I would be happy to set up some Double Blind tests for receivers/amplifiers as well as cables for you. Drop me a line if you are interested.;):D

[markw]

Well, after that fine response from one of their writers I feel more justified than ever for reading their periodical without paying for it.

Well, not exactly free. We will but some coffee and snacks there to enjoy while reading stereopile without paying for it. :p

Remember people, why buy stereopile when you can read it for free.

[chadnliz]

Why do members here waste their time and energy building and the jumping on their home made soap box to look down at and mock those who they disagree with, I have subscribed to Stereophile for years and like the mix of budget and cutting edge gear, my complaint is more in the Political Op-ED's inserted where it has no place but its a pretty good magazine all and all.
Most Audiophiles have heard the rants and scoffs about gear and cables to a point where it just gets turned off, so have your fun but nobody really cares even when a few step in to make a point now and then, I mean really dont you have anything better to do?
I have contacted Michael Fremer both via email and spoke to him in May at the NYC show, he is always helpful and respectful.....he obviously has a good opinion of himself and I wonder why that would be considered a flaw? With all due respect I think attacking those who champion something you dont agree with for their individual pleasure and have no intention of learning any real knowledge of what you dismiss is more telling of your character and not of those you laugh at and dispise.
I dont drink fine wine, drive a fancy car or sport a hand made watch or even care to sit and fiddle with a vintage model train as it makes pointless rounds on a table in a basement but I understand one key thing about most men and that is the fact we are all classified as "nerds" about something. Hunters are nerds in camouflage, bikers in leather, divers in wet suits and countless others have whatever hobby and its associated gear and often premium priced items from collectables to the equipment and gear required to enjoy the hobby chosen.
So laugh at those you see as silly or out of touch but know somebody somewhere wether in bed next to you, across town or all across the country are laughing at YOU aswell for whatever hobby makes you the nerd you are.
In close you may assume those who talk about and dream of new subwoofers, projection screens and bass shakers in their seats while they spout off at the products others use and rant about the large companies who manufactur these goods for hours on end are laughed at just like those in Hi-End Audio..............but thats just crazy talk..

[AdrianMills]

Regardless of whether I/we agree with Fremer's particular slant of audiophilia or not, he came here as a representative of Stereophile and acted like an arse. That alone deserves derision. Or maybe you think he should be forgiven that because he's a "contributing editor"? :rolleyes:

As for “high end” audio; if people want to spend their money on expensive toys that’s their business but what a lot of people have issues with is the snake oil that tends to be associated with the esoteric side of this industry. Unfortunately it’s rags like Stereophile and their “contributing editors” that encourage snake oil and give it credibility with the general public.

Why do members here waste their time and energy building and the jumping on their home made soap box to look down at and mock those who they disagree with, I have subscribed to Stereophile for years and like the mix of budget and cutting edge gear, my complaint is more in the Political Op-ED's inserted where it has no place but its a pretty good magazine all and all.
Most Audiophiles have heard the rants and scoffs about gear and cables to a point where it just gets turned off, so have your fun but nobody really cares even when a few step in to make a point now and then, I mean really dont you have anything better to do?
I have contacted Michael Fremer both via email and spoke to him in May at the NYC show, he is always helpful and respectful.....he obviously has a good opinion of himself and I wonder why that would be considered a flaw? With all due respect I think attacking those who champion something you dont agree with for their individual pleasure and have no intention of learning any real knowledge of what you dismiss is more telling of your character and not of those you laugh at and dispise.
I dont drink fine wine, drive a fancy car or sport a hand made watch or even care to sit and fiddle with a vintage model train as it makes pointless rounds on a table in a basement but I understand one key thing about most men and that is the fact we are all classified as "nerds" about something. Hunters are nerds in camouflage, bikers in leather, divers in wet suits and countless others have whatever hobby and its associated gear and often premium priced items from collectables to the equipment and gear required to enjoy the hobby chosen.
So laugh at those you see as silly or out of touch but know somebody somewhere wether in bed next to you, across town or all across the country are laughing at YOU aswell for whatever hobby makes you the nerd you are.
In close you may assume those who talk about and dream of new subwoofers, projection screens and bass shakers in their seats while they spout off at the products others use and rant about the large companies who manufactur these goods for hours on end are laughed at just like those in Hi-End Audio..............but thats just crazy talk..

[stratman]

Has anyone remember reading a negative review of any product that advertises heavily at Stereovile?:rolleyes:

[stratman]

A lot of the so-called "cutting-edge" gear is nothing more than rehashing(read Gene's technically treatises), people just don't get it. There's nothing wrong with owning "esoteric" gear, as long as you bought it for the supposed right reasons:rolleyes:, mainly looks, exclusivity and when you entertain your less well-heeled friends, they can oooh and aaaah at your pretentious and expensive toys and cables. I own so called esoteric gear, it's not better sounding than "mid-fi," it does however look much better. As for people feeling superior to others due to their status in a rag, well, someone once told me "never believe the hype, especially if it concerns you." Once you learn enough you can see Sterovile for what it is, pure marketing, that's all, self-appointed judges and mouth pieces for the way things should be in A/V 'dom. A lot like the Wine Spectator and Cigar Aficinado, self-appointed judge, jury and executioner.

[Alex2507]

Why do members here waste their time and energy building and the jumping on their home made soap box to look down at and mock those who they disagree with, I have subscribed to Stereophile for years and like the mix of budget and cutting edge gear, my complaint is more in the Political Op-ED's inserted where it has no place but its a pretty good magazine all and all.
Most Audiophiles have heard the rants and scoffs about gear and cables to a point where it just gets turned off, so have your fun but nobody really cares even when a few step in to make a point now and then, I mean really dont you have anything better to do?
I have contacted Michael Fremer both via email and spoke to him in May at the NYC show, he is always helpful and respectful.....he obviously has a good opinion of himself and I wonder why that would be considered a flaw? With all due respect I think attacking those who champion something you dont agree with for their individual pleasure and have no intention of learning any real knowledge of what you dismiss is more telling of your character and not of those you laugh at and dispise.
I dont drink fine wine, drive a fancy car or sport a hand made watch or even care to sit and fiddle with a vintage model train as it makes pointless rounds on a table in a basement but I understand one key thing about most men and that is the fact we are all classified as "nerds" about something. Hunters are nerds in camouflage, bikers in leather, divers in wet suits and countless others have whatever hobby and its associated gear and often premium priced items from collectables to the equipment and gear required to enjoy the hobby chosen.
So laugh at those you see as silly or out of touch but know somebody somewhere wether in bed next to you, across town or all across the country are laughing at YOU aswell for whatever hobby makes you the nerd you are.
In close you may assume those who talk about and dream of new subwoofers, projection screens and bass shakers in their seats while they spout off at the products others use and rant about the large companies who manufactur these goods for hours on end are laughed at just like those in Hi-End Audio..............but thats just crazy talk..

Hey, what's that red square mean on the top right of your post? :confused::eek:
Hover your cursor on it and see what it says. ;)

Mr. Happy to offend 1st time poster is gonna have a huge following here. :rolleyes:
Thank you for taking the time to talk sense into me.

[chadnliz]

I know perfectly well what the dot means and maybe you should have one too seeing how its handed out for telling things as I see them, I also appreciate the skillful way you insult me without any recourse so BRAVO. It looks like posting about what others say to a first time poster who was surely not interested in this site or what members have to say until he was drawn into the discussion is another breach of the wolfpack way of intellectually navigating this site...even if I have real world experience with this individual, But I refuse to simply get into lock-step with the leader and blindly follow anyone with limited eyesight. In the end I could dumb it down and say Emotiva and Blue Jean cables are the best creations in modern time while treating Monster Inc as an evil empire and any cables that cost over $50.00 are snake oil and anyone who buys them is an idiot, I could also say that this site is the only real info you need on HT and Audio topics out of the entire offerings online but none of these examples are true so I choose to think for myself.

[Alex2507]

Remember people, why buy stereopile when you can read it for free.

I had a stack of 'em given to me. All but one got thrown out. I had to keep the one because of a fry 'em and freeze 'em ad. :D Their measurements on speakers are nice though. Little by little I will learn more and more and will eventually know what those graphs are saying. I appreciate the measurements.

The problem is that they tell you that a special fuse makes a receiver sound better. I had to bring the question to AH to find out it was bologna.

So unless you're an A/V brainiac, be careful. Reading it can make you stupid.

[yettitheman]

PS: If I've offended anyone, it's been my pleasure. CHEERS!

Hmm... well, we know exactly what's going on now.

IB4TL.

[stratman]

PS: If I've offended anyone, it's been my pleasure. CHEERS!

Wow! This tells me everything I needed to know/suspected all along. What a tool.

[chadnliz]

Well atleast Fremer has enough class not to call anyone names, I could go on but its pointless.............Kool-Aid anyone?

[Matt34]

I read the car magazines and when they cover Ferraris, and Porsches and Maseratis, people tend to enjoy the reviews. It's only in audio that we end up with so many jealous wankers and where so many try to level the playing field by claiming "it all sounds the same," and that when you spend more you get less.

-Michael Fremer
senior contributing editor, Stereophile

PS: If I've offended anyone, it's been my pleasure. CHEERS!


The magazines can back up an exotic cars performance with real numbers. The same can't be said for a majority of the hi-fi audio world.

AdrianMills post just reminded me of the Randi speaker cable challenge....too bad there isn't something like that involving car exhausts. I think I could pick the Ferrari everytime.;)

[Alex2507]

Well atleast Fremer has enough class not to call anyone names, I could go on but its pointless.............Kool-Aid anyone?

You could go on? What, making stuff up? On what planet is calling people "wankers" not name calling? Didn't you earn that red badge of honor by calling somebody a retard that licks school bus windows? It's okay for you and Fremer but not for anybody else? Yeah, you got class alright.

Is that last bit a Jimmy Jones reference? Let me give you a tip: don't go making offensive posts while in a pain med induced fog.

[markw]

..while people like reading about the hi-buck exotics I do notice that they also have frequent articles and shootouts on more mundane vehicles that almost anyone can afford. Like, say, econoboxes?

Methinks mikey's standard of living is a bit above Joe Sixpacks if he considers his reviews are of "real world" products that Joe sSixpack would consider.

[Halon451]

I find it rather appalling that the OP in this case voiced some valid concerns regarding magazine content, and a senior staff of said magazine comes onto the forum to do nothing but bash the guy - excuse me, did I miss something in Business 101? You go attacking your customers, instead of politely and respectfully attempting to understand their concerns and offer positive feedback, best of luck to you when the well runs dry and nobody wants to subscribe to your stinking rag anymore. I could call that pretentiousness from a pretentious, high brow magazine at its best, and it's nothing but elitist, holier-than-thou mentality. Hey, maybe you've got enough high-brown pompous a**holes subscribing to your magazine to keep you employed for the next x amount of years, so be it. Thanks for your input here, now get lost.

As for me - not a subscriber, but I have come up with some interesting new uses for Stereophile magazine:

1.) Shredded padding for a hamster cage
2.) Flyswatter
3.) Beer coaster
4.) Kindling
5.) Stereophile + Wood chipper = confetti party!

Oh, anyone feel free to add to the list if you wish...:D:cool:

[Halon451]

In the end I could dumb it down and say Emotiva and Blue Jean cables are the best creations in modern time while treating Monster Inc as an evil empire and any cables that cost over $50.00 are snake oil and anyone who buys them is an idiot, I could also say that this site is the only real info you need on HT and Audio topics out of the entire offerings online but none of these examples are true so I choose to think for myself.

Wow.... you know Chad thinking for yourself is one thing, but going against reason and rationale just because a growing number of people are beginning to see a certain reality all for the sake of maintaining your "individual" process of thought is just another form of ignorance. These are subjective examples for the most part that you indicated anyway, so why are you getting so defensive?

[chadnliz]

I am not defensive just making my case, and as far as the guy I called a retard and windoow licker got kicked off..enough said. Go on and on about this and anything else you wish to rant about, its a beautiful day and life is too short.........see ya

[Alex2507]

I am not defensive just making my case, and as far as the guy I called a retard and windoow licker got kicked off..enough said. Go on and on about this and anything else you wish to rant about, its a beautiful day and life is too short.........see ya

He didn't get kicked off, he got put on probation and just hasn't posted since then.
Get it right, will ya? :D I can't keep correcting you like this. It's a lot of work. :mad:

[chadnliz]

Knowing the info of the members of this site is almost certainly one of the fews things you have over me so enjoy your moment in the sun.

[mike c]

haraldo has a point.

i DON'T buy these magazines because i CAN'T afford the stuff in there.

i want to, i've actually walked into magazine stores looking for an AV fix, but i just don't know the brands they are talking about.

[Alex2507]

Knowing the info of the members of this site is almost certainly one of the fews things you have over me so enjoy your moment in the sun.

It's just that we got put on probation together. But I am basking in it alright and since it is one of the few things that I do have over you, you will understand my lording this great knowledge over you. :rolleyes:

[Seth=L]

The magazines can back up an exotic cars performance with real numbers. The same can't be said for a majority of the hi-fi audio world.

AdrianMills post just reminded me of the Randi speaker cable challenge....too bad there isn't something like that involving car exhausts. I think I could pick the Ferrari everytime.;)
I agree with you to a point. Cars are measured, there are Aston Martin cars that dish out the performance of Ferrari at a fraction of the cost. Just like audio, it's overpriced for the performance. However, when buying a Ferrari, you can argue that you are buying because it's a performance vehicle and it has the look (name) you are going for. Audio is the same way, high end audio typically performs well, but it costs a lot more for the prestige (the looks, the name). Cables however, are completely bogus.;)

[haraldo]

Hey there guys

I wanted to wait a couple of days to see if the audiophyte Mr. Fremer came to his senses....

Anybody think that I am annouyed by this post.... I won't answer that, but merely say that people must have some sort of credibility in order to annoy me :D

There are many great people out there in this forum and many of you have great jobs where you face your customers every day. I face my customers all the time, every day. Does anybody out there treat the customers the way Fremer does? Does Fremer actually know who's his customers and who actually provide his paycheck?

I cannot remember any single company in history where management faced the customer the way Fremer does, without going bankrupt. This is not my opinion but the tale of history... Stereophile as a magazine will come to and end with such attitudes as shown by mr senior contributing editor.

The best people in the business answer to criticism by looking at themselves and critically thinking... How can I and how can we improve. Criticism is a means of help, help to get better.

Obviously, Mr Fremer has lost touch with his audience, and that's certainly not my problem, people stop subscribing to Stereohile as a result of this :p:p

Now I just want to have a look at what I wrote and how Mikey never responded to these issues:
He says I sound like a bitter guy, anyone else agree with him :-))

I wrote: I can't remember the last time Sam Tellig did not write about Musical Fidelity or Triangle speakers in Sam's corner.
MF's response: Never answered that

I wrote: I can't remember the last time there was an issue without Michael Fremer writing about ridiculously priced turntable product
MF's response: He mentioned that he reviewed some affordable products, but he still swarms around expensive stuff. It's just getting out of hand. He never actually answered to this.
But I'm happy to realize that he's suddenly a medical doctor, now I know about the Alzheimer, thanks :-))

I wrote: Stereophile seem to loose touch with the regular gals and guys out there, or is it me that's out of touch.
MF'S Responce: Nothing about this, just that we are all idiots, and we are bums and wankers, I'm stunned by the analytical skills of Mr Fremer

I wrote: And now they're reviewing Hansen Audio Prince.....
MF'S responce: Nothing

And then MF calls me a butt and jealous wanker. Please Mr Fremer, what's your background for such a statement?
Why do you call a customer that's actually contributing to your paycheck using such words?

Everytime somebody brings this up we end up with the car analogy, it's about the 200th time and it's got nothing to do with the issue at hand. It doesn't change the fact that many of the products they review are ridiculously overpriced.

You may read about this over and over again in readers letters in Stereophile. I certainly don't disregards expensive products, but there must be a given price/performance ratio.

When Mr Hansen of Hanssen Aduio spends many hundred thousand dollars to develop some other different cone material, who says it's better than what Seas, Peerless, Scan Speak, Eton and Vifa can provide. Just about every major high-end manufacturer uses one or more drivers from these companies, and they will happily provide any kind of custom driver. Why spend many hundred thousand dollars to create something that's not better, merely different, perhaps that makes the Hansen different, but better? I'd probably say you can get the same performance for 1/3 the price. Like Thiel CS 3.7.

There is some sort of disorder that I know about that comes to my mind right now....
1. Glibness/superficial charm.
2. Grandiose sense of self-worth.
3. Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
4. Pathological lying
5. Conning/manipulative
6. Lack of remorse or guilt
7. Shallow affect
8. Callous/lack of empathy
9. Parasitic lifestyle
10. Poor behavioral controls
11. Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
12. Revocation of conditional release

I will not say anything more about this, just that these guys normally are taken care of by people in white jackets :eek::eek::eek:

Your sincerely

Harald :)

[Halon451]

Stereophile has officially been added to my list of favorite companies (along with Bose and Monster)...



FOR ME TO POOP ON!!

<a href="http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/Halon45/?action=view&current=triumph.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/Halon45/triumph.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[haraldo]

Stereophile has officially been added to my list of favorite companies (along with Bose and Monster)...



FOR ME TO POOP ON!!

<a href="http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/Halon45/?action=view&current=triumph.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/Halon45/triumph.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

You should probably add Sony too......

[caupina]

Stereophile has officially been added to my list of favorite companies (along with Bose and Monster)...



FOR ME TO POOP ON!!

<a href="http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/Halon45/?action=view&current=triumph.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e183/Halon45/triumph.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

What's so useful about this post that Halon gets 3 thanks????? :rolleyes: Sometimes I get the feeling that the "thanks" represents nothing more than just taking sides with people when it comes to bashing a product/ post/ person (just like elementary school) instead of sharing some knowledge among the members.

[haraldo]

What's so useful about this post that Halon gets 3 thanks????? :rolleyes: Sometimes I get the feeling that the "thanks" represents nothing more than just taking sides with people when it comes to bashing a product/ post/ person (just like elementary school) instead of sharing some knowledge among the members.

Halon gets 3 thanks because he has consistently proven to be a valuable contributor to these forums and he gets thanks by people who know him and appreciate his sense of humor as well as his values in life.

Sometimes we are very serious, sometimes not, I think most members here do have a great sense of humor. And It's been a long time since I have communicated with so many smart people. Halon is one of them.

Halon is a valuable member of these forums, that's why :D

[Halon451]

What's so useful about this post that Halon gets 3 thanks????? :rolleyes: Sometimes I get the feeling that the "thanks" represents nothing more than just taking sides with people when it comes to bashing a product/ post/ person (just like elementary school) instead of sharing some knowledge among the members.

Lighten up Francis... it was funny, meant to make people laugh, and apparently it did.

Hey guys, please remove your thanks from my above post, we're not trying to upset anyone here. :rolleyes:

[Halon451]

Halon gets 3 thanks because he has consistently proven to be a valuable contributor to these forums and he gets thanks by people who know him and appreciate his sense of humor as well as his values in life.

Sometimes we are very serious, sometimes not, I think most members here do have a great sense of humor. And It's been a long time since I have communicated with so many smart people. Halon is one of them.

Halon is a valuable member of these forums, that's why :D

Awwwwwww.... you made me blush. :p

[haraldo]

Awwwwwww.... you made me blush. :p

Blo...... he.... Halon, I'm trying to find a lady right now :eek::eek:

[caupina]

Lighten up Francis... it was funny, meant to make people laugh, and apparently it did.

Hey guys, please remove your thanks from my above post, we're not trying to upset anyone here. :rolleyes:

Ok....that's good enough...i just thought the intention of the "thanks" was other, but my bad:o.

[Halon451]

Blo...... he.... Halon, I'm trying to find a lady right now :eek::eek:

Hey, you should check with Joe Schmoe these days - apparently he's quite the ladies man. He might be able to give you a few pointers. :)

[caupina]

Halon gets 3 thanks because he has consistently proven to be a valuable contributor to these forums and he gets thanks by people who know him and appreciate his sense of humor as well as his values in life.

Sometimes we are very serious, sometimes not, I think most members here do have a great sense of humor. And It's been a long time since I have communicated with so many smart people. Halon is one of them.

Halon is a valuable member of these forums, that's why :D

My point was about the "useful post" and how the thanks are given out, not Halon.:rolleyes:

[Halon451]

Ok....that's good enough...i just thought the intention of the "thanks" was other, but my bad:o.

No harm, no foul bud. Enjoy the forum and all of its crazy antics. :D

[haraldo]

Hey, you should check with Joe Schmoe these days - apparently he's quite the ladies man. He might be able to give you a few pointers. :)

Do I have pointers, yes.... Guess we should stop this discussion now, we've been there and that thread got closed!

[haraldo]

My point was about the "useful post" and how the thanks are given out, not Halon.:rolleyes:

No worries !

[Matt34]

I agree with you to a point. Cars are measured, there are Aston Martin cars that dish out the performance of Ferrari at a fraction of the cost. Just like audio, it's overpriced for the performance. However, when buying a Ferrari, you can argue that you are buying because it's a performance vehicle and it has the look (name) you are going for. Audio is the same way, high end audio typically performs well, but it costs a lot more for the prestige (the looks, the name). Cables however, are completely bogus.;)


Your absouletly right, I didn't expound on what I was going after very well. My main focus was on certain hi-fi magazines objective "reviews" of snake oil products with no meaningful measurements whatsoever.

Take this quote used to describe some $40,000 worth of cables for example:

"Taken together, these unusual interconnect, loudspeaker, and AC cables brought a new measure of spaciousness, scale, smoothness, heretofore unimagined detail, and overall musical ease and naturalness to my music system. And they did it while sounding neither dull nor bright—just right."

The review goes on to explain the differences he remembers from other cables in the past. In the end, the only measurements used where of the actual weight and length of the cables.

It would be like if the auto mags were to write a two-page review of the new Nissan GT-R when it was first released and not measure the 1/4 time, HP/TQ, 70-0 brake test, etc. What true car guy is going to fork over the $70,000+ for a high performance car without knowing the facts? Because mister editor said it was fast, handled great and got you the women? Not this hombre.

[majorloser]

Well atleast Fremer has enough class not to call anyone names, I could go on but its pointless.............Kool-Aid anyone?

Get your facts right.
Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple used Flavor Aid.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/99/01-jones-jim.jpg

Kool Aid always gets the bad rap :mad:

[stratman]

Michael Fremer is a girly-man. Technoviking will tie him up with silver Monster cables and make him scream while reading poetry by Bob Harley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsntHcWiy4

[Seth=L]

Michael Fremer is a girly-man. Technoviking will tie him up with silver Monster cables and make him scream while reading poetry by Bob Harley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsntHcWiy4
LMAO, he totally would do all that you just said. I love Bob, he gives me the biggest chuckles.:D

[stratman]

Get your facts right.
Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple used Flavor Aid.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/99/01-jones-jim.jpg

Kool Aid always gets the bad rap :mad:

This guy always gave me the creeps, doesn't he look like Jethro? I wonder what he did to Ellie Mae, Granny and Uncle Jed?:eek:

[haraldo]

This guy always gave me the creeps, doesn't he look like Jethro? I wonder what he did to Ellie Mae, Granny and Uncle Jed?:eek:

I really like the hairstyle, you just have to trust a guy with such a haircut :cool:

[MinusTheBear]

I CAN'T believe I missed this. Actually I can because I have never heard of stereophile before:D and in all honesty will never care about this magazine:) after reading this thread. I cannot believe a representative from this company posted such a pompus, arrogant and insulting reply to somones concern with this magazine and in a public forum mind you:eek:. These concerns where from a PAYING customer, not some troll bashing the magazine. I agree with some other posters, they can be added to the infamous "others" and they can be all called the Terrible Threes.

[haraldo]

I CAN'T believe I missed this. Actually I can because I have never heard of stereophile before:D and in all honesty will never care about this magazine:) after reading this thread. I cannot believe a representative from this company posted such a pompus, arrogant and insulting reply to somones concern with this magazine and in a public forum mind you:eek:. These concerns where from a PAYING customer, not some troll bashing the magazine. I agree with some other posters, they can be added to the infamous "others" and they can be all called the Terrible Threes.

You sound like a really good guy :D

[mudrummer99]

I CAN'T believe I missed this. Actually I can because I have never heard of stereophile before:D and in all honesty will never care about this magazine:) after reading this thread. I cannot believe a representative from this company posted such a pompus, arrogant and insulting reply to somones concern with this magazine and in a public forum mind you:eek:. These concerns where from a PAYING customer, not some troll bashing the magazine. I agree with some other posters, they can be added to the infamous "others" and they can be all called the Terrible Threes.

How can you not believe that he would do this? Pick up an issue, he does this to paying subscribers every month. It's not only a public forum, but a professional publication. That's just the way he rolls. I still enjoy Stereophile and think in general their hearts are in the right place, but like I said in my original reply to Mr. Fremer, I would like to see a more real life representation of product reviews. As of the last year and a half (about the amount of time I've been reading this mag) the distribution of entry level products (read: affordable) and high-end, cost no object equipment is quite skewed.

Mike

[rmk]

Your absouletly right, I didn't expound on what I was going after very well. My main focus was on certain hi-fi magazines objective "reviews" of snake oil products with no meaningful measurements whatsoever.

Take this quote used to describe some $40,000 worth of cables for example:

"Taken together, these unusual interconnect, loudspeaker, and AC cables brought a new measure of spaciousness, scale, smoothness, heretofore unimagined detail, and overall musical ease and naturalness to my music system. And they did it while sounding neither dull nor bright—just right."

The review goes on to explain the differences he remembers from other cables in the past. In the end, the only measurements used where of the actual weight and length of the cables.

It would be like if the auto mags were to write a two-page review of the new Nissan GT-R when it was first released and not measure the 1/4 time, HP/TQ, 70-0 brake test, etc. What true car guy is going to fork over the $70,000+ for a high performance car without knowing the facts? Because mister editor said it was fast, handled great and got you the women? Not this hombre.

I kinda hate to get involved in this thread as I read and like Sterophile but take it with the same grain of salt approach I do with every audio product publication. What I like about Stereophile reviews is that the reviewers bring the products into their homes, usually set them up properly and live with them for a while before commenting. Those comments are usually comparative to their reference systems and those always contain "high end" gear. Whats not to like about that? That subjective stuff has as much value to me as the charts and graphs which by the way, Stereophile almost always includes.

I see and respect your point on measurable results Matt, but I own a $70K+ high performance vehicle and I did some reading and research before purchasing. But for me, the proof was in the driving and I drove a lot of them before I wrote the check.

Fremers comments were defensive and I suppose to some here, offensive. My suggestion to all is to get over it.

[MinusTheBear]

What I don't get is, if representatives take time to respond in a public forum why not take the criticism presented and try to spin it into gold:D. Thousands of people read these threads and all this guy has done is bring negative publicity to his employer.

[haraldo]

What I don't get is, if representatives take time to respond in a public forum why not take the criticism presented and try to spin it into gold:D. Thousands of people read these threads and all this guy has done is bring negative publicity to his employer.

This attitude is damaging to the publication, perhaps it's an idea to make Primedia, the owners of Stereophile aware of this thread. If for no other purpose than to stop Mikey's unacceptable behavior.

[Halon451]

My suggestion to all is to get over it.

I've certainly got nothing to 'get over' and I can assure you won't catch me losing any sleep over this. He demonstrated himself to be an a$$ and got called on it, plain and simple. ;)

[haraldo]

I've certainly got nothing to 'get over' and I can assure you won't catch me losing any sleep over this. He demonstrated himself to be an a$$ and got called on it, plain and simple. ;)

I totally agree.... Someone with no credibility cannot get to me :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

But it's not that simple, people out there may call for bad decisions based on bad advice from Fremer and others, and that's a totally different matter though, therefore this is important !

Actually I have seen readers letters in other magazines from people buying expensive equipment solely on advice from reputable reviewers, without even listening properly before buying. I really hope this is not a common practice, certainly not amongst the members in this forum, but reading about this scares me....

[Halon451]

I totally agree.... Someone with no credibility cannot get to me :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

But it's not that simple, people out there may call for bad decisions based on bad advice from Fremer and others, and that's a totally different matter though, therefore this is important !

Actually I have seen readers letters in other magazines from people buying expensive equipment solely on advice from reputable reviewers, without even listening properly before buying. I really hope this is not a common practice, certainly not amongst the members in this forum, but reading about this scares me....

Sure, I'll give you that. But then again, it's up to personal accountability for your own actions (or in this case, those you speak of) - if they make foolish decisions, they're the ones that have to live with the consequences. Maybe I'm not as altruistic in my thinking as yourself on this one, but I did find it incredulous Fremer's remarks when he posted. Hopefully he's somewhere lurking and continuing to read this thread....

As far as I'm concerned, aside from the occasional troll, a place like this is worth its weight in gold when you need advice or opinions, nobody here is on anyone's payroll to be a mouthpiece for any particular brand or company. Maybe not 100%, but close enough to being pure and honest as I think it gets. Heated discussions arise, but usually an indication of people's passions toward this hobby.

Fremer is just a jerk. You know what they say - walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..... :cool:

[haraldo]

You know what they say - walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..... :cool:

Guess I'm just waiting for the men wearing white jackets to start their work :eek::eek:

Not all reviewers are bad though... I recall Shaun Buettner who has done some reviews for The Absolute sound and the Audio Perfectionist. I would actually possibly trust this guy. He made some very unfavorable reviews. He Thrashed some Verity speaker in a review because, although it was good, it's way too expensive and he mentioned that you would get better performance for a fraction at a cost from the Thiel CS2.4. Now that's what I call a review!
That means that when he makes a positive review, you would actually trust that this is his opinion and not the one that suits the magazine

And the guys from Verity audio reply was of disgust in manufacturer's remarks :D

Not that I particularly enjoy bad reviews, but I like honest reviews!!

[Halon451]

Guess I'm just waiting for the men wearing white jackets to start their work :eek::eek:

Not all reviewers are bad though... I recall Shaun Buettner who has done some reviews for The Absolute sound and the Audio Perfectionist. I would actually possibly trust this guy. He made some very unfavorable reviews. He Thrashed some Verity speaker in a review because, although it was good, it's way too expensive and he mentioned that you would get better performance for a fraction at a cost from the Thiel CS2.4. Now that's what I call a review!
That means that when he makes a positive review, you would actually trust that this is his opinion and not the one that suits the magazine

And the guys from Verity audio reply was of disgust in manufacturer's remarks :D

Not that I particularly enjoy bad reviews, but I like honest reviews!!

Well, I think you have to take any reviewer of merchandise, goods or products for exactly what it is - an opinion. Some "lower-end" (excuse me) magazines I have picked up over the years have offered measurable data from each system component (Home Theater magazine, for one), along with the reviewer's opinions on its overall performance when all is said and done - entirely subjective, data or no data as the numbers will not always indicate what pleases whom. Honesty and purity? Hell, this is business man, and there are guys who know how to play the game and there are those who do their best to refute the oft-hyped claims pertaining to snake oil tactics, charms and other wizardry, others who promote it, and still others who rally behind certain products out of sheer brand loyalty, all of which can lead the average person into profound befuddlement as to what to believe.

The best advice I see on this forum are those who tell people to always when possible get out there and test/listen to the stuff yourself. You can't beat that with a stick, damn the magazines. Let the snobs eat their proverbial cake. ;)

[mouettus]

Michael Fremer is a girly-man. Technoviking will tie him up with silver Monster cables and make him scream while reading poetry by Bob Harley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsntHcWiy4

HAHAHAHAHA I would thank you 3 times for that only post if I could lol. Just stare at my avatar and imagine Fremer just in front of him lol.

Why does everytime a subject that causes controversy has to be closed down? Get over it is not a way to go in life. Why not get to the bottom of the well while we're at it?! It's an audio site and Stereovile is a part of this subject. IMO, I think it is important to come up with those conversations because as I just saw a 30K$ 2-ch system yesterday and it was normal people (not that rich) who could've spent their money elsewhere and still achieve the same results.

Yeah yeah I know... fool.... money... parted! :p

[haraldo]

Guess I'm throwing out a torch of fire now :rolleyes:

If you look at these "Watch Dog" by Mr Richard Hardesty of the Audio Perfectionist Journal
Hardesty and Mr Fremer + Atkinson have never been the best friends.

Hardesty has written a number of letters to Stereophile with comments and suggestions, they end up being cut because they are too critical to Stereophile

There are many in this forum that will disagree with Mr Hardesty and his opinions, and that's fine, that's not really the point of this post. Mr Hardesty is an advocate of time coherent , phase perfect speakers... People may disagree and that's fine.

I'm posting this because these letters IMHO raises some interesting questions. At least it raises serious concerns on Sterephile attitude and balance (we all know about that, still) and I think they're a good read.....

http://www.audioperfectionist.com/pages/watchdog.html

Pay particular attention to the following:
Watch Dog #21 (The Wilson Maxx) 151k PDF file
Hate Mail: Postscript to Watch Dog #21, email messages from Giolas/Wilson and Fremer/Stereophile. 92k PDF file
Watch Dog #25 (Stereophile Review of Vandersteen Quatro Wood Loudspeakers.) 102k PDF file


Basically Mr Hardesty basically claims some reviews to be like cut&paste from the manufacturers sales brochures.

-H

[mouettus]

Basically Mr Hardesty basically claims some reviews to be like cut&paste from the manufacturers sales brochures.

-H

Actually I see some reviews over the net that could apply to any audio product out there

such as: "it really widens the sound, it really makes it less compressed and more easy to listen. The puches are more punchy" so on so forth.

[haraldo]

"it really widens the sound"

I have always looked for a cable that widens the sound :eek::eek:

[markw]

I have always looked for a cable that widens the sound :eek::eek:Just make 'em longer and put more space between the speakers. :rolleyes:

...just make sure the cables are approved by stereopile.

[haraldo]

Haraldo, you sound like a very bitter guy.

If you can't remember the last time I reviewed an inexpensive turntable, or a budget priced phono preamplifier or an inexpensive cartridge you must have Alzheimers.

I have no problems with my ego. It's quite healthy and therefore my stereo system, my car, my watch (etc.) are not involved in my self worth. As for my "other part," it's been put to extremely good use over the years. Your suggestion that somehow I compensate for feelings of penile inadequacy with audio gear is an act of transparent projection I find extremely amusing.

If you enjoyed the recent Vandersteen review, consider that I reviewed the original Quattro, which is less expensive. But you're not likely to because you have some kind of axe to grind, so grind away oblivious to reality.

Stereophile reviews products in all price categories. I review products in all price categories. I reviewed a $400+ USB based Pro-Ject turntable in the last issue. I just finished up a review of an inexpensive Rega P3-24 turntable. It's cheap and good--for the money. So whatever you're talking about is exiting from you butt.

I read the car magazines and when they cover Ferraris, and Porsches and Maseratis, people tend to enjoy the reviews. It's only in audio that we end up with so many jealous wankers and where so many try to level the playing field by claiming "it all sounds the same," and that when you spend more you get less.

Grow up, audio is no different than food, wine, cars, clothes, you name it. Unfortunately, usually, the more you pay, the better the quality. That's a fact of life. I can't afford a Ferrari or a Maserati but I'm not a bitter dweeb who needs to rationalize that I can't afford one by claiming it's no better than the car that I can afford.

If you think high performance audio is a "rip-off," or don't understand what goes into building and marketing limited edition, high performance audio gear, then by all means stop reading Stereophile, get some plastic speakers, some lamp cord, an MP3 player and have a blast! Stereophile is a magazine about high performance (not necessarily high priced) audio.

-Michael Fremer
senior contributing editor, Stereophile

PS: If I've offended anyone, it's been my pleasure. CHEERS!

Anybody heard anything from the grumpy guy.... looking at readers letters from Stereophile, I have the impression that statements like these are quite frequent from this side :p

Criticism is tough, especially when it's fair :D

And he never ever answered to anything raised by this forum, just calling names :D:D:D

[MatthewB.]

I feel that Sterophile was the only magazine I ever regreted subscribing to. I am an average Joe with some higher end tastes. I drive a BMW because of the higher end tastes, but bought it used because I am also smart on how I spend that money. After I subscribed I started to get a feel on the load of B.S. that fills it's pages. Constant ads that promote uber expensive cables (Pear cables anyone, anyone? ) How people can spend 25,000 on speaker cables is just beyond me.
I happily subscribe to HTMagazine and Sound and Vision for my budget and Electronic House for ideas on how to make that average gear look nice. Not to say my gear is crap, I just know how to make my middle of the road gear (Denon 3808, DefTech BP7001's and so on) work their best.

[MatthewB.]

Oh yeah one more thing. If I ever start spending 20,000 on a turntable, 40,000 on speakers and 100,000 on a preamp and amp, then I surely need my friggin head examined.
I have been to forum members houses where the total cost of gear was less than 10,000 and sounded way better than systems I have heard that cost 50,000 plus. I'd rather spend a few hundred on room acoustics for improvement than tens of thousands on snake oil treatment.

[haraldo]

I wrote an email to John Atkinson yesterday and there has been a dialog between me, Mr Atkinson and Mr Fremer, and we all agree that we have both stepped over the line. in this thread. I certainly have and Michael Fremer has apologized too.

At Mr Atkinson's request I'm posting his response:

The blue writing is Mr Atkinson's responses

>I have been a Stereophile subscriber for a long time, and for most of this
period I have enjoyed reading Stereophile, but I think things have changed,
and I think attitudes of you editors have changed.<

Sorry to hear that, Harald. I have been editing Stereophile for more than 22 years and I don't believe my attitude has changed in that time, I still believe that listening to one's favorite music in the highest possible quality is one of the most rewarding ways to spend time.


>When I post a thread at Audioholics forum, I do this as a private person,
when Michael Fremer adds a very rude post at Audioholics forum signed as
"Stereophile Senior Contributing Editor" he is not writing this as a private

person but in my sense he represents Stereophile officially.<

I agree, He is representing Stereophile on forums like that, even if he does not attach the tag line.


>I believe that companies that do not value theit customers and those who
actually buy the product, will be out of business. Simple fact. Do you value
your customers? Do you try to keep in touch with customers, when I look at
how some persons in your company reacts to criticism I wonder...<

Of course I value my readers. I checked out the May 2008 thread you referred to at http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43732 . Yes, I agree that Micheal Fremer's response was intemperate, but when you write that:


>This was as a response to a very critical post by me...

I have to say that your original post was also insulting and intemperate and, considering the factual inaccuracies -- what continued Musical Fidelity and Triangle reviews by Sam Tellig? what review of Monster Cable in Stereophile (mentioned by you in a subsequent posting)? -- it appeared to be little more than a rather mean-spirited troll. So while I don't condone Michael's language, I do sympathize with his vexation over the attitude that came over in your posting.

And yes, Stereophile does devote a significant proportion of its review space to budget-priced gear. See, for example, the listing at http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/ . I do feel that many of the magazine's critics on the Audioholics forum either don't read the magazine thoroughly or at all.


>I don't ask for anything from Stereophile, I'm just seeing that probably
most active participants at Audioholics forum are seriosly shocked by Mr
Fremer's way of approaching his customers and his way of responding to
criticism.<

To be honest, I think you are being disingenuous here. Your original post was immoderate and confrontational in tone: ie, "Perhaps I'll renew my subscription just to have a monthly laugh" and "Does this man [Michael Fremer] have a problem with his ego? or another part?" Did you really not expect that Michael might be offended by your post? As I said, while I wouldn't have responded to your post in the manner Michael did -- my skin is probably thicker than his -- I do understand why he wrote the way he did.


> Does mr Fremer know that he is talking to the people that
actually provides his paycheck?<

I think this point would have greater validity if some Audioholics posters didn't admit they read the magazine free at the bookstore rather than purchasing it :-)

Thank you for writing. And you are welcome, of course, to post this response to Audioholics if you so wish.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Alex2507]

I think this point would have greater validity if some Audioholics posters didn't admit they read the magazine free at the bookstore rather than purchasing it :-)

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
[/COLOR]

On the off chance that you are talking about me, it's Sound & Vision. :D
And it's at the grocery store. :)
If I'm paying $5/lb for chicken and they won't hire a bagger, I insist on being entertained. :p
Stop & Shop doesn't carry Stereophile. :(

[gus6464]

Sometimes Stereophile will have good articles on budget components that are actually well written and hit very close to home. I remember one article on budget speakers and why an expensive speaker ($1000+) could be no better than a cheaper one (~$1000). I remember an article where they talked about a couple of speakers including the Amphion Helium paired with a Rega P3 and a cheap $700 integrated and how one could have more fun and be happier than a person with a crazy high priced system.

[Alex2507]

Sometimes Stereophile has statments in their reviews that are absurd:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42305

If I bought that fuse business then I would have walked away stupider than when I got there.
Then who would tie my shoes? Huh? :D

[haraldo]

Sometimes Stereophile has statments in their reviews that are absurd:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42305

If I bought that fuse business then I would have walked away stupider than when I got there.
Then who would tie my shoes? Huh? :D

Perhaps there's a market for cryo treated fuses :eek:

[haraldo]

Along the way, this forum has provided Mr Atkinson with some new ideas about things to cover in Stereophile.... so wait and see, something never seen in Stereophile before may come up, I hope.....

This may actually be very cool things :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Adam]

If I bought that fuse business then I would have walked away stupider than when I got there.
Then who would tie my shoes? Huh? :D

Fine, so I had to bring home the shoelace tying board when I was in kindergarten because I couldn't figure it out. I already felt dumb enough about it...now I gotta relive the humiliation. Oh, the humanity. :(

:D:D

[haraldo]

Fine, so I had to bring home the shoelace tying board when I was in kindergarten because I couldn't figure it out. I already felt dumb enough about it...now I gotta relive the humiliation. Oh, the humanity. :(

:D:D

It's a cruel world.... or as George Costanza said once.... Look out Jerry, there's a lot of nuts out there.... :p

[Alex2507]

something never seen in Stereophile before may come up, I hope.....


Are you waiting for a review on this:

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/73452

or this:

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/72948

or this:

http://www.tweekgeek.com/_e/Harmonic_Technology/product/HTMagicWoofer/Magic_Reference_Woofer_Speaker_Cable.htm

Sometimes hope is all a person has and I would hate to take that away from you. :rolleyes:

A shoelace tying board?
When I was a kid they just told me to run down the stairs with my hands in my pockets. :D

[haraldo]

Are you waiting for a review on this:

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/73452

or this:

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/72948

or this:

http://www.tweekgeek.com/_e/Harmonic_Technology/product/HTMagicWoofer/Magic_Reference_Woofer_Speaker_Cable.htm

Sometimes hope is all a person has and I would hate to take that away from you. :rolleyes:

A shoe lace tieing board?
When I was a kid they just told me to run down the stairs with my hands in my pockets. :D


Wow, those Magic Reference Woofer Speaker Cable must be something......
And $159.99 for cable elevators, real bargain indeed :eek:

I really also thought about those new devices to minimize the effect of moon gravity on speaker cables, think they're only around $6000 each.... well worth the money.....
Especially useful when there's a full moon :D


he he, let's say I tipped Mr Atkinson on something quite different that's in touch with the spirit of this forum :cool:

[highfigh]

Y'know, I got gooned with a couple of guys I worked with one night and we discussed all kinds of BS that goes with this industry. One does A/V equipment service and installs, while the other went to MSOE (Milwaukee SChool Of Engineering) for the ECET program (Electronics Communications Engineering Technology) and has designed X-Ray equipment for the food industry. At one point, I made a comment that we should have some fuses plated with gold and we'd make a fortune. We thought about it (after laughing hysterically for a while) and decided that it wouldn't fly, for several reasons, like the fact that we didn't want to scam anyone. DOH!!!!!