av_phile
09-14-2004, 05:35 AM
Again, DBT seems to drive you to distraction, yet for all the obvious distress you feel for the concept, you bring it up here. Why? Haven't you had enough? I'd say trolling is precisely the word.
Why should it? I hardly have any regard for it. But I'll tell you why, read along, indulge me.
At any rate, why would you say modifying equipment is at odds with DBT? You could certainly test modded gear if you like. To suggest the two endeavors are mutually exclusive would appear to be a straw man attack against an argument I've not raised. Since I'm merely asking whether other people are into mods, without implying endorsement nor condemnation, shouldn't you be delighted? I am after all asking for opinions.
You tell me. :) In fact I am delighted that the issue of modifying gears should come from you. From someone who delights in ABX testing, that was a pleasant and welcome surprise.
The issue here is simple. It's about extracting the pleasures in this hobby. Modifying a gear with what you BELIEVE will make them sound or perform better is one. Getting high end products that you BELIEVE will make for a better performing or sounding set-up is another. Now let me recall, oh yes, I think ABX testing would have me believe that anything more than a zip cord and a $300 receiver is foolish, right? I think modifying a gear does give you more than the average stock. You can do it yourself, or you can let Theta or mark levinson do it for you at a price.
Lastly, many people I know mod their speakers. Even most extremists from both lunatic fringe camps (ie die hard skeptical and staunch Golden Ears) agree that speakers sound very different. Unless a speaker is perfect right from the factory, why not modify it if you know how? To "hot rod" a car is not to condemn its performance but to acknowledge its good qualities and improve upon them. Or to remedy weaknesses in an otherwise excellent vehicle.
I think that is the same philosophy why people like Theta and other boutique brands rehouse and rebadge some consumer products. They "hot rod" some mass market product. They have great faith on some of those consumer circuitry that are poorly assembled and housed. So they replace the parts with more exacting parts and rehouse them in more robust chasis. That's great in this hobby. Either you do it yourself, or pay $$$ for others who know better to do it for you.
In my younger years, I used to do a lot of tweaking with crossover networks I find wanting in some JBl and AR speakers with better capacitors and coils (from iron to air core) And I've modified certain wharfedale speaker drivers replacing them with Fostex speakers. I've even increased their internal damping materials which often were so flimsy or braced them to lessen internal vibration. In short, I attempted to imitate what expensive brands are doing for their wares. And the enjoyment derived from doing so is surpassed only by the enjoyment after.
My point is, this modding is exactly one argument why ABX testing is totally irrelevant in this hobby. While statistical ABX testing will tell you that it is foolish to go beyond a $300 appliance, it is clear that this hobby becomes most satisfying when your belief and value system acknowledges that there are many things you can do to better a $300 appliance. That there are ways and means to juice up our beloved gears so they can sound bettter to our ears, short of spending on that $15,000 amp or speaker which, for some people with more money than the time, patience and skill to modify on their own, would most likely be preffered path. If the hobbyist believes that modding does wonders to his gear, then that is clear acknwledgement that there is more than what an ABX test will you.
If you have any relevant opinions on modding or experiences with mods, please share them. If you only want to needle guys who think all amps are the same, please do so in another thread. Take a dump there if you feel you must, but let me try to keep this about mods. I say this not as a Moderator but just as a guy trying to get some dialog going on a specific subject.
I just did. Sorry to bring this up in this thread. Just too tempting for me not to. Modding's relevance to the utter irrelevance of statistical ABX in this hobby is so obvious.
Why should it? I hardly have any regard for it. But I'll tell you why, read along, indulge me.
At any rate, why would you say modifying equipment is at odds with DBT? You could certainly test modded gear if you like. To suggest the two endeavors are mutually exclusive would appear to be a straw man attack against an argument I've not raised. Since I'm merely asking whether other people are into mods, without implying endorsement nor condemnation, shouldn't you be delighted? I am after all asking for opinions.
You tell me. :) In fact I am delighted that the issue of modifying gears should come from you. From someone who delights in ABX testing, that was a pleasant and welcome surprise.
The issue here is simple. It's about extracting the pleasures in this hobby. Modifying a gear with what you BELIEVE will make them sound or perform better is one. Getting high end products that you BELIEVE will make for a better performing or sounding set-up is another. Now let me recall, oh yes, I think ABX testing would have me believe that anything more than a zip cord and a $300 receiver is foolish, right? I think modifying a gear does give you more than the average stock. You can do it yourself, or you can let Theta or mark levinson do it for you at a price.
Lastly, many people I know mod their speakers. Even most extremists from both lunatic fringe camps (ie die hard skeptical and staunch Golden Ears) agree that speakers sound very different. Unless a speaker is perfect right from the factory, why not modify it if you know how? To "hot rod" a car is not to condemn its performance but to acknowledge its good qualities and improve upon them. Or to remedy weaknesses in an otherwise excellent vehicle.
I think that is the same philosophy why people like Theta and other boutique brands rehouse and rebadge some consumer products. They "hot rod" some mass market product. They have great faith on some of those consumer circuitry that are poorly assembled and housed. So they replace the parts with more exacting parts and rehouse them in more robust chasis. That's great in this hobby. Either you do it yourself, or pay $$$ for others who know better to do it for you.
In my younger years, I used to do a lot of tweaking with crossover networks I find wanting in some JBl and AR speakers with better capacitors and coils (from iron to air core) And I've modified certain wharfedale speaker drivers replacing them with Fostex speakers. I've even increased their internal damping materials which often were so flimsy or braced them to lessen internal vibration. In short, I attempted to imitate what expensive brands are doing for their wares. And the enjoyment derived from doing so is surpassed only by the enjoyment after.
My point is, this modding is exactly one argument why ABX testing is totally irrelevant in this hobby. While statistical ABX testing will tell you that it is foolish to go beyond a $300 appliance, it is clear that this hobby becomes most satisfying when your belief and value system acknowledges that there are many things you can do to better a $300 appliance. That there are ways and means to juice up our beloved gears so they can sound bettter to our ears, short of spending on that $15,000 amp or speaker which, for some people with more money than the time, patience and skill to modify on their own, would most likely be preffered path. If the hobbyist believes that modding does wonders to his gear, then that is clear acknwledgement that there is more than what an ABX test will you.
If you have any relevant opinions on modding or experiences with mods, please share them. If you only want to needle guys who think all amps are the same, please do so in another thread. Take a dump there if you feel you must, but let me try to keep this about mods. I say this not as a Moderator but just as a guy trying to get some dialog going on a specific subject.
I just did. Sorry to bring this up in this thread. Just too tempting for me not to. Modding's relevance to the utter irrelevance of statistical ABX in this hobby is so obvious.