Plasma manufacturer says "you bought it you live with it"

[02ViperTodd]

Hi All,

I can't believe it. I've owned a Samsung FP-T6374 for 4 months. It got screen burn. I called Samsung and they told me to basically suck it. There is a small blurb about 4:3 on the second page of the manual that they will NOT cover burn in. The supervisor told me some people call them within a couple days with this problem. DO NOT BUY A SAMSUNG PLASMA!!

I would think this would be first page with HUGE letters warning people of this problem! I read about it here AFTER I bought the TV.

Sorry, I'm pissed.. unbelievable...

DO NOT BUY A SAMSUNG PLASMA!!!

If anyone has a way I can fix this (which I can't see how) let me know. The supervisor said I needed to have the screen replaced and that would cost 1/2 the price of the TV...WTF..4 months old?!?!?!?!

DO NOT BUY A SAMSUNG PLASMA!!

Just a warning,
Todd

[bandphan]

did you try to reverse the retention? Improper use and setup can cause problems. Speak to the vendor that sold the tv to you, i know the people i deal with wouldnt want to lose a lifer. Go to the people that sold the tv to you, you shouldnt have burn in with usage in the way described in your other post.

[canIscream]

I have to be honest. I realize you're in a frustrating situation, but I think about any manufacturer would tell you the same thing.

How do you use the television that caused the burn in to happen so quickly?

[NapaDRB]

I don't know how bad your situation is and I have no personnel experience with it, but as recommended in your other thread I would try the break in DVD and the "scan" feature in your set that you mentioned.

With the break in DVD you can set your player to "repeat" and let it play overnight to see if it will reverse the image retention. If you decide to try this method be sure of your "repeat" setting on your DVD player so that the DVD doesn't stop and you wind up with the menu from your player burned on to your screen.

[02ViperTodd]

THanks All,

I have an electronic engineering degree. I know that this type of thing should NOT happen in a 4 month period. There is NO excuse for this $6000,00 for a TV?? It has had problems 4 months later??? What the hell?

I can't believe a manufacturer would distrubit this kind of trash at this price..

I'm a business owner, I would be ashamed of MYSELF for manufacturing this crap..What are they thinking?

Not just venting, but informing,
Todd

[canIscream]

THanks All,

I have an electronic engineering degree. I know that this type of thing should NOT happen in a 4 month period. There is NO excuse for this $6000,00 for a TV?? It has had problems 4 months later??? What the hell?

I can't believe a manufacturer would distrubit this kind of trash at this price..

I'm a business owner, I would be ashamed of MYSELF for manufacturing this crap..What are they thinking?

Not just venting, but informing,
Todd
Again, what's your usage like? plasmas have an inherent tendency to burn in much easier than LCD's. NapaDRB had good advice for you. There are solutions for image retention.

[majorloser]

You really should try that break-in DVD. It has scrolling screens of various colors that helps get all of the phosphorus burned to the same degree.

Also, if you set has a "stretch" function that stretches the 4:3 to 16:9, you should use it. I know it's ugly and makes people look fat, but........

[canIscream]

You really should try that break-in DVD. It has scrolling screens of various colors that helps get all of the phosphorus burned to the same degree.

Also, if you set has a "stretch" function that stretches the 4:3 to 16:9, you should use it. I know it's ugly and makes people look fat, but........
but you get used to it and it doesn't even phase you after awhile. :cool:

getting my gf to use the stretch function has been an epic battle. i don't want any burn in. also, if your TV is capable of it (it better be for that price), and you can't stand the stretch feature, switch the color of the black bars on the sides in 4:3 shows, and movies in cinematic aspect ratio to a gray color as it would be less prone to burn in.

[erick.s]

This kind of thing is inherent in plasma technology - it would have happened to any plasma you bought. I get that you're pissed about it but it's your (or someone that lives in your home) viewing habits that caused it. Just a little research on your part before buying the TV (or even a thorough perusal of the manual) would have told you this. I have a plasma and with proper break in and care this kind of thing is easily avoided. As others have said, this is most likely not permanent (though you don't seem to be acknowledging the advice). Run a burn in DVD for a few days and you should see a huge reduction (if not total elimination) of the problem. Don't be mad at the manufacturer - be mad at yourself for not knowing what you bought and how to use it properly. This is user error, not a manufacturing defect.

[TLS Guy]

THanks All,

I have an electronic engineering degree. I know that this type of thing should NOT happen in a 4 month period. There is NO excuse for this $6000,00 for a TV?? It has had problems 4 months later??? What the hell?

I can't believe a manufacturer would distrubit this kind of trash at this price..

I'm a business owner, I would be ashamed of MYSELF for manufacturing this crap..What are they thinking?

Not just venting, but informing,
Todd

This is the second post about Samsung burn in to be posted in 24 hours. My nose smells junk. I have had a Fujitsu plasma TV for two years. I have not had a burn in problem or any others. I researched this purchase carefully, and even though it cost twice as much as anything else, I thought it worth the price. The picture is the best I have ever seen anywhere. Now they have been forced out of production my this damn junk, and will discontinue production at the end of the month. Is there no end to this race to the bottom?

[majorloser]

This is the second post about Samsung burn in to be posted in 24 hours. My nose smells junk.


Maybe because it's the same member who just wanted to let us know what he heard back from Samsung. :D

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42372

[canIscream]

This kind of thing is inherent in plasma technology - it would have happened to any plasma you bought. I get that you're pissed about it but it's your (or someone that lives in your home) viewing habits that caused it. Just a little research on your part before buying the TV (or even a thorough perusal of the manual) would have told you this. I have a plasma and with proper break in and care this kind of thing is easily avoided. As others have said, this is most likely not permanent (though you don't seem to be acknowledging the advice). Run a burn in DVD for a few days and you should see a huge reduction (if not total elimination) of the problem. Don't be mad at the manufacturer - be mad at yourself for not knowing what you bought and how to use it properly. This is user error, not a manufacturing defect.

at the same time, someone spending that sort of money on a television expects it to work flawlessly. i can see why he's pissed.

i'd bet a bagel this is user error though. it's unfortunate you were not educated before making your purchase be it self taught, or explained by a competent sales rep. either way, if you want low maintenance, buy an LCD.

your advantage with a plasma at this point is that your burn in is reversible if you follow the instructions given to you in this thread. if you had an LCD, as far as i know, burn in is permanent.

[majorloser]

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[TLS Guy]

Maybe because it's the same member who just wanted to let us know what he heard back from Samsung. :D

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42372

So it is! Well spotted. Then he paid too much for his TV!

[croseiv]

I have a Samsung. No burn in at all. The set(or brand) isn't junk. Quit brand bashing. :rolleyes: You should be a little more attentive with your 4000 dollar toy.

[InTheIndustry]

Manufacturers as well as nearly every extended warranty program I've ever seen consider screen burn in an issue of ABUSE. Leaving a static image on screen (and yes, black bars count as a static image) is considered a form of abuse. What's just BS at this point is why manufacturers even put a 4x3 aspect mode in the set's software if they know that it could lead to "abuse". Aren't they tempting unknowing consumers?

Manuals for TV's (particularly CT rear projection) have stated this for years and years. Unfortunately, double E or not, you didn't read yours until it was too late. This isn't a case of the TV just failing and Samsung refusing to honor their warranty.

As far as the set costing $6000 goes, any more with consumer electronics you pay for performance and features, NOT durability. It's the same way with cars. I can buy a Porsche for $90K, but because it's $90K does that mean it will be more reliable than a $17K Honda? Not at all.

There are a lot of companies out there that will honor their products with really great warranties. Parasound gives 10 years. Several speaker manufacturers offer lifetime warranties. Best TV warranty I've ever seen is from Planar (they recently bought Runco & Vidikron), a really high end brand of LCD TV that I recently picked up. Their "Customer First" factory warranty is phenomenal: Two years, immediate full replacement. They send me, the dealer, a new TV and I put your bad one in and the delivery driver takes it away. That's it. A warranty like Planar's is unheard of in the video market because most sets are made by companies that are generally too big to care.

Personally, I would be really angry at the store you bought it from. It's awful if they didn't explain to the T what happens if you watch 4 x 3 on a plasma. I ASSURE you that they know what burn is in and how it occurs. It's ludacris for a store carrying a set such as that to not care enough about you as their client to educate you on your new TV!

I own a business, too (an A/V integration company), and, while I certainly would have made CERTAIN you knew what burn in was and how to avoid it, the absolute LEAST I would do with an accident like this is offer you a new one at my dealers cost. Actually, if it came down to it I would call my rep and beat him into getting me the replacement at a reduced rate, then I would calculate out the profit I made from your first purchase and then have you pay the difference. Sure, I would have made zero on your purchase, but that's only one deal out of the year. A solid business can live with breaking even once in a while and should want to see their clients taken care of. You might want to try to work out replacement options through where you purchased the set? See if they can work with you on a replacement. Where did you buy it from?

Lastly, while my remarks in this post may at times have seemed harsh or insensitive I assure you that I feel horribly bad for what you're going through. You invested in what you thought was going to be an exciting product for years to come, only to get 4 months and a big "Sorry". Please keep us posted as to what ultimately happens with your TV situation.

Best of luck.

[TLS Guy]

at the same time, someone spending that sort of money on a television expects it to work flawlessly. i can see why he's pissed.

i'd bet a bagel this is user error though. it's unfortunate you were not educated before making your purchase be it self taught, or explained by a competent sales rep. either way, if you want low maintenance, buy an LCD.

your advantage with a plasma at this point is that your burn in is reversible if you follow the instructions given to you in this thread. if you had an LCD, as far as i know, burn in is permanent.

I don't know if it is his error or not. On my Fujitsu you can not go to wide screen with 4:3 aspect ratio material. The set however has a screen orbiter, that moves the picture once per hour. You can set it to move 5,10 or 15 pixels.

It seems to me there should be something in the design of the TV to stop this happening. If you can cause a burn problem by watching 4:3 material in the correct proportions, then that is bad design period.

I have to say I have viewed, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung and of course Fujitsu, and I have to say I like the picture on the Samsungs the least. So may be there are more issues.

[Jack Hammer]

I agree, Samsungs customer service is downright awful. They made a horrible impression on me when I had to deal with them.

At this point it sounds like you are stuck with the tv, regardless of what caused the burn in and where the blame may lie. I say run the burn in dvd for a few days and let us know if it fixed the problem or at least helped out. If it fixes the problem then you can move forward knowing what to expect from the set. If not, then perhaps by then a few more solutions may arise.

Best of luck

Jack

[GlocksRock]

How come every time I mention plasmas and burn in problems, people here keep telling me that it's basically a thing of the past... obviously it's still and issue, and that's why I don't reccomend getting a plasma if you can help it. Sorry to hear about your problems, have you talked to the place you got if from to see if they can offer any help?

[bandphan]

How come every time I mention plasmas and burn in problems, people here keep telling me that it's basically a thing of the past... obviously it's still and issue, and that's why I don't reccomend getting a plasma if you can help it. Sorry to hear about your problems, have you talked to the place you got if from to see if they can offer any help?

it can be with abuse and improper setup, it think that its not burn in but retention, and there is a difference. Im waiting to see what happens after he runs the setup discs. I spec plasma for clients that are in finanical industry quite often with no issues. You are correct in that you can get burn in, but there are factors the will contribute to it others than watching shows with fixed images. With the exception of panna and pio elites most of the setups i do(especially with universal remotes) i will lock the sets into a strecth mode to be on the safe side.

[canIscream]

Personally, I would be really angry at the store you bought it from. It's awful if they didn't explain to the T what happens if you watch 4 x 3 on a plasma. I ASSURE you that they know what burn is in and how it occurs. It's ludacris for a store carrying a set such as that to not care enough about you as their client to educate you on your new TV!

I own a business, too (an A/V integration company), and, while I certainly would have made CERTAIN you knew what burn in was and how to avoid it, the absolute LEAST I would do with an accident like this is offer you a new one at my dealers cost. Actually, if it came down to it I would call my rep and beat him into getting me the replacement at a reduced rate, then I would calculate out the profit I made from your first purchase and then have you pay the difference. Sure, I would have made zero on your purchase, but that's only one deal out of the year. A solid business can live with breaking even once in a while and should want to see their clients taken care of. You might want to try to work out replacement options through where you purchased the set? See if they can work with you on a replacement. Where did you buy it from?
That's what's killing me on this too. I'm dying to know who sold him this stuff. Any sales staff selling that caliber of a television should be shot for not explaining that. The only thing that would make sense is if he bought it off the internet, but he shouldn't have paid that much on the internet for it.
I don't know if it is his error or not. On my Fujitsu you can not go to wide screen with 4:3 aspect ratio material. The set however has a screen orbiter, that moves the picture once per hour. You can set it to move 5,10 or 15 pixels.

It seems to me there should be something in the design of the TV to stop this happening. If you can cause a burn problem by watching 4:3 material in the correct proportions, then that is bad design period.

I have to say I have viewed, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung and of course Fujitsu, and I have to say I like the picture on the Samsungs the least. So may be there are more issues.With proper break in and calibration there shouldn't be too many burn in issues. I've never had the slightest bit of image retention on my Panasonic plasma. I game on it constantly.

I haven't seen the TV the original poster bought in person, but Samsung plasmas are typically above average. They really shine in my opinion with their 71 and 81 series LCD's.

How come every time I mention plasmas and burn in problems, people here keep telling me that it's basically a thing of the past... obviously it's still and issue, and that's why I don't reccomend getting a plasma if you can help it. Sorry to hear about your problems, have you talked to the place you got if from to see if they can offer any help?
With proper care, and knowledge, it's not an issue. You still get better picture quality and color depth in a plasma. There's more bang for your buck in a plasma too. That's not to say that won't change in the future.

[GuyClinch]

It's ironic that this thread is right above a thread in which Plasma users vigorously claim "burn-in" isn't an issue. Maybe they aren't "educated" in what to "look for." :P

Plasma is nice for the videophile who will fuss and fret about his TV to make sure nothing "bad" happens to it, IMHO. But LCD is winning for a reason - it's no fuss technology. No running programs..no worring about "black bars" and so on.

Pete

[02ViperTodd]

Hi All,

I'm all calmed down now. I've been running the scrolling thing all morning and will continue to all day. Hopefully this will correct the problem.

I bought the set at Brandsmart and they were the first ones I called. They told me they would have replaced it if it was within 30 days but outside of that I had to talk to the manufacture. Talking to the manufacture is what made my head spin.

They should have a huge warning on the cover of the manual warning people about this. The rep of the manufactur agreed, but nothing they could do about it.

The usage of this TV is about 5 hours a day. I only watch sports and movies in full screen. The only thing I can think of that would have caused the burn or rentention problem are a few programs the wife watches which is only a couple hours a day. Oprah and Ellen..I showed her how to change the aspect last night but I still can't believe this thing is burned just because of that.

It seems to me that this thing was destined to burn regardless. When I watch a HD channel and it goes to commercial not all commercials are in full screen. Are you suppose to change the aspect every time a commercial comes on?

I am taking everyone's advise in trying to fix this thing and I do appreciate the advice you are giving me.

Thanks,
Todd

[stratman]

Hi All,

I'm all calmed down now. I've been running the scrolling thing all morning and will continue to all day. Hopefully this will correct the problem.

I bought the set at Brandsmart and they were the first ones I called. They told me they would have replaced it if it was within 30 days but outside of that I had to talk to the manufacture. Talking to the manufacture is what made my head spin.

They should have a huge warning on the cover of the manual warning people about this. The rep of the manufactur agreed, but nothing they could do about it.

The usage of this TV is about 5 hours a day. I only watch sports and movies in full screen. The only thing I can think of that would have caused the burn or rentention problem are a few programs the wife watches which is only a couple hours a day. Oprah and Ellen..I showed her how to change the aspect last night but I still can't believe this thing is burned just because of that.

It seems to me that this thing was destined to burn regardless. When I watch a HD channel and it goes to commercial not all commercials are in full screen. Are you suppose to change the aspect every time a commercial comes on?

I am taking everyone's advise in trying to fix this thing and I do appreciate the advice you are giving me.

Thanks,
Todd


Good luck Todd and keep us posted on how it goes.

[jinjuku]

Hi All,

They should have a huge warning on the cover of the manual warning people about this. The rep of the manufactur agreed, but nothing they could do about it.


I write and support software for a living. I also happen to write the user guide in Help & Manual (shameless plug for a great product).

You didn't read the user guide. You wanted Samsung to put a big 'Purple Button' that says "place your brain here, you won't need it".

You bought a $4k appliance and didn't think about the manual. My car dealer mechanic almost fainted when I told him I read the owners guide in the glove box cover to cover when I got the car.

Sorry, no sympathy here... I can easily imagine the tech at Samsung after the call.

If we had to put in on top of the manual a yellow sheet of paper for all the stuff users say there shoud be a "huge warning on the cover of the manual warning people about this" it would be a manual itself for most products. Man up and admit you didn't read it.

[MDS]

Remember how contentious the thread about Clint's 'Plasma is dead' article got? Everyone that is a plasma fan and bashed the article were talking about how plasma gives the 'best' video quality and that's all that matters, burn-in is a thing of the past, etc.

I don't think it's fair to say anyone that suffers burn-in did so simply because they didn't read or ignored warnings in the manual. The warnings are there because burn-in is a very real possiblity. The reality is that a normal person who isn't an obsessive videophile (ie the vast majority of the population) does not want to be a slave to TV maintenance. Are they supposed to set a timer for 2 hours and then change the channel or run a continuous loop of some DVD to refresh the screen? It doesn't happen.

So you suffer burn-in and the salesman or manufacturer asks 'Were you watching ESPN all day?' and when you answer Yes they tell you 'Well that's the problem, our TVs are only designed to be watched a few minutes at a time.' That won't go over too well with most people and I'd be angry too.

[jinjuku]

I don't know about you, but I am a person that gets my 'learn on' in almost all things. Before I purchase, I do ton of research. Almost to the point that it annoys my Wife.

I will tell you this: I HAVE NEVER BEEN BURNED because of that. Whether it be a car, power tools, electronics etc... I spend my money ONCE. I read the user guides. So no, I don't feel sorry for people when there is a TROVE of education out there and waiting for them. Ok, now let the excuses for not getting your learn on fly...:)

[Pyrrho]

but you get used to it and it doesn't even phase you after awhile. :cool:

getting my gf to use the stretch function has been an epic battle. i don't want any burn in. also, if your TV is capable of it (it better be for that price), and you can't stand the stretch feature, switch the color of the black bars on the sides in 4:3 shows, and movies in cinematic aspect ratio to a gray color as it would be less prone to burn in.

I don't blame your girlfriend. So many plasma owners brag about the picture, and heap scorn on LCD TVs (that these days, look almost the same as plasmas), and then they ruin the picture by massive distorting and/or cropping in order to prevent burn-in!

[Pyrrho]

This kind of thing is inherent in plasma technology - it would have happened to any plasma you bought. I get that you're pissed about it but it's your (or someone that lives in your home) viewing habits that caused it. Just a little research on your part before buying the TV (or even a thorough perusal of the manual) would have told you this. I have a plasma and with proper break in and care this kind of thing is easily avoided. As others have said, this is most likely not permanent (though you don't seem to be acknowledging the advice). Run a burn in DVD for a few days and you should see a huge reduction (if not total elimination) of the problem. Don't be mad at the manufacturer - be mad at yourself for not knowing what you bought and how to use it properly. This is user error, not a manufacturing defect.

If he had done "research" by reading posts at web sites like this one, he would have read countless posts from people claiming that with modern plasma TVs, "burn-in" is a myth.

[Clint DeBoer]

In summary, the first post of this thread should really read "Brand X" cause if you had done this with anyone else's plasma the results would have been the same and the warnings are just as obscure.

[Pyrrho]

Manufacturers as well as nearly every extended warranty program I've ever seen consider screen burn in an issue of ABUSE. Leaving a static image on screen (and yes, black bars count as a static image) is considered a form of abuse. What's just BS at this point is why manufacturers even put a 4x3 aspect mode in the set's software if they know that it could lead to "abuse". Aren't they tempting unknowing consumers?

...

Indeed, why do they put in aspect ratio choices such that using them counts as "abuse" of the TV? The makers of the TVs are either morons or they want people to ruin their TVs.

[TLS Guy]

Remember how contentious the thread about Clint's 'Plasma is dead' article got? Everyone that is a plasma fan and bashed the article were talking about how plasma gives the 'best' video quality and that's all that matters, burn-in is a thing of the past, etc.

I don't think it's fair to say anyone that suffers burn-in did so simply because they didn't read or ignored warnings in the manual. The warnings are there because burn-in is a very real possiblity. The reality is that a normal person who isn't an obsessive videophile (ie the vast majority of the population) does not want to be a slave to TV maintenance. Are they supposed to set a timer for 2 hours and then change the channel or run a continuous loop of some DVD to refresh the screen? It doesn't happen.

So you suffer burn-in and the salesman or manufacturer asks 'Were you watching ESPN all day?' and when you answer Yes they tell you 'Well that's the problem, our TVs are only designed to be watched a few minutes at a time.' That won't go over too well with most people and I'd be angry too.

I agree with the above completely. Before you design anything the designer has to ask, is it any use? These days this question is not asked nearly as often as it should be. Do any other Plasma move the picture a few pixels every hour, like mine does? I have had no burn problems and have not used the DVD mentioned. I'm wondering if this is a feature of other Plasmas.

[Pyrrho]

How come every time I mention plasmas and burn in problems, people here keep telling me that it's basically a thing of the past... obviously it's still and issue, and that's why I don't reccomend getting a plasma if you can help it. Sorry to hear about your problems, have you talked to the place you got if from to see if they can offer any help?

You hear that because people are sheep who parrot everything they hear as if they knew it to be true (sorry for the mixed metaphor, but I wanted the extra emphasis). "Burn-in" is real, or it would not be mentioned in the manuals, and they would start giving warranties against it if they ever managed to solve the problem completely.

Given that I hate distorted and cropped images, I went with an LCD. Those who like distortion and cropping may buy whatever type of TV they like.

[jinjuku]

Amazing what one can find at Samsung.com. It's even on the VERY FIRST PAGE of the download-able PDF or DjVu user guide for the display in question. Again the OP didn't even make it to page one :rolleyes:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/2345189029_62ee14be11_o.png

[Pyrrho]

Hi All,

I'm all calmed down now. I've been running the scrolling thing all morning and will continue to all day. Hopefully this will correct the problem.

I bought the set at Brandsmart and they were the first ones I called. They told me they would have replaced it if it was within 30 days but outside of that I had to talk to the manufacture. Talking to the manufacture is what made my head spin.

They should have a huge warning on the cover of the manual warning people about this. The rep of the manufactur agreed, but nothing they could do about it.

The usage of this TV is about 5 hours a day. I only watch sports and movies in full screen. The only thing I can think of that would have caused the burn or rentention problem are a few programs the wife watches which is only a couple hours a day. Oprah and Ellen..I showed her how to change the aspect last night but I still can't believe this thing is burned just because of that.

It seems to me that this thing was destined to burn regardless. When I watch a HD channel and it goes to commercial not all commercials are in full screen. Are you suppose to change the aspect every time a commercial comes on?

I am taking everyone's advise in trying to fix this thing and I do appreciate the advice you are giving me.

Thanks,
Todd

I am glad that you are more calm now. It is possible that the damage is not too extensive, and you will be able to fix it with the suggestions that others have made. Once you have it fixed, to avoid it happening again in the future, make sure you have the brightness and contrast properly adjusted, and never watch anything that isn't formatted to fit your screen. Either stretch, crop, or both, to make everything fit.

As for the commercials, having some video that does not fill the screen for a short period of time shouldn't be too much of a problem, particularly if you don't have the brightness and contrast set too high. However, I can make no promises about this.

And always read manuals, and take their warnings seriously, no matter what advice you read in places like this. Too many people don't know what they are talking about, and pass on misinformation. Use whatever anti-burn-in settings that are available in your set.

[02ViperTodd]

You are correct Jinjuku. I'm not making excuses for not reading that paragraph. The TOC and heading say "Important warranty information..." being a brand new set I probably didn't think I had a warranty issue. Perhaps a better heading would be "Important Operating Information..." Again, you are correct..my fault..but still 4 months old?? come on..
Todd

[jinjuku]

You are correct Jinjuku. I'm not making excuses for not reading that paragraph. The TOC and heading say "Important warranty information..." being a brand new set I probably didn't think I had a warranty issue. Perhaps a better heading would be "Important Operating Information..." Again, you are correct..my fault..but still 4 months old?? come on..
Todd

Plasma TV's most of all have some operation restrictions and limits. My point being is that you are here smearing Samsung for something that I believe to be totally end user related.

Additional points being:

1. The user guide is available to anyone that wants to look at it prior to purchase.

2. The first 3 pages AT LENGTH speak to burn in and cover a bunch of scenarios, which you fall right into.

3. It really doesn't sound like you read the user guide. It's 83 pages, not War & Peace.

4. If you had looked up the user guide before purchase, saw the warnings on the first few pages, would you still have bought?

This thread is now four pages too long. Four months, forty days, whatever, the user guide was implicit. Caveat Emptor/Due Diligence/What ever. I have no idea why I was the only one that could take on the assertion that Samsung is some how at fault via their user guide and show that in 30 seconds you would have had your answer.

Yes it burns me to see posts like yours shooting from the hip for a manufacturer. I know manufacturers aren't perfect (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42333)
But they aren't always the protagonist either.

Look, I don't know what research you did before plunking down $4K + for a TV, but I am pretty sure of what you didn't.

[bandphan]

I agree with the above completely. Before you design anything the designer has to ask, is it any use? These days this question is not asked nearly as often as it should be. Do any other Plasma move the picture a few pixels every hour, like mine does? I have had no burn problems and have not used the DVD mentioned. I'm wondering if this is a feature of other Plasmas.

pioneer elites have been doing pixel shifting since day one, other vendors are trying to catch on. Thats why i feel comfortable spec-ing them. I here what your saying about quality and i agree, and sometimes i think its the quality of the consumer also; making expensive purchases and not understanding them. There are reasons some displays cost more and i believe in you pay for what you get(or build in your case;) ) i hope its just retention as ive stated over and over, which can be corrected. Hope it works out for ya vt and not and expensive lesson learned.

post an update later please

[MDS]

2. The first 3 pages AT LENGTH speak to burn in and cover a bunch of scenarios, which you fall right into.

Those scenarios are all too common as they occur many times per day every single day. How can one not view that as a major disadvantage? The manual speaks at length about them precisely because those common viewing patterns will expose the viewer to the risk. Just as an insurance company isn't going to insure someone they deem to be high risk, the manufacturer will not provide a warranty against something that has a high probability of occurring.

One thing I agree with though is you should read the manuals beforehand if possible and if more people did that and realized that the way they watch TV every day is exactly what the manual says you shouldn't do, it would hasten the demise of plasma.

[unreal.freak]

One thing I agree with though is you should read the manuals beforehand if possible and if more people did that and realized that the way they watch TV every day is exactly what the manual says you shouldn't do, it would hasten the demise of plasma.

Im with you on the demise of plasma. I have been doing research for a new Flatscreen TV. My new house will be finished within the next 2 months and im going to need a big tv.
I was already against the Plasma tvs due to the burn in factor. I have been doing some reading here on the forums about "burn in" being a thing of the past. Well this thread has reafirmed me that it must not be a thing of the past.
I have had LCD PC monitors, so im pretty comfortable about buying another LCD. Im leaning toward the Sharp Aquious, or the Sony.
If the original poster would have read the manual and seen the warning, would the store have been willing/obligated to buy the TV back on the grounds that he didnt want a TV that could be dammaged in this manner?

Peace,
Tommy

[Jack Hammer]

Lighten up on the guy. I agree with a little more due diligence may have been in order on his part. Everyone seems to be forgetting a few strong factors with plasmas. A lot of sales people will tell you that plasmas don't or cant suffer burn in anymore. There's also a lot of similar info on the web and even here at AH.

I was personally told 2 months ago by each sales person I spoke with in each of several different stores that plasmas no longer suffer burn in and that I should have been looking at those instead of lcds. And for the most part that was very similar to what I was reading here.

Jack:)

[TLS Guy]

Lighten up on the guy. I agree with a little more due diligence may have been in order on his part. Everyone seems to be forgetting a few strong factors with plasmas. A lot of sales people will tell you that plasmas don't or cant suffer burn in anymore. There's also a lot of similar info on the web and even here at AH.

I was personally told 2 months ago by each sales person I spoke with in each of several different stores that plasmas no longer suffer burn in and that I should have been looking at those instead of lcds. And for the most part that was very similar to what I was reading here.

Jack:)

I agree with you Jack. Making a product that will not survive normal family use without a fuss is just not on. And then typical of large corporations they take no responsibility. I have NEVER seen a product by Samsung that I consider a quality product, or that I would have pleasure owning. I will continue not to recommend them.

I hear their heavy equipment is duff also. Fortunately we can still make that for ourselves, and really good gear too, with impeccable after sales service anywhere in the world!

[02ViperTodd]

Hi Again,

I ran the scrolling thing all day and I really can't tell a difference as of yet. Should I run this every day for a while to get the outer ends of the screen the same as the middle part? I'm not sure how this is gonna work because the scrolling thing is equally illuminating every part of the screen so why would it correct the ...uumm I guess unburnt areas to match the burnt areas? If you know what I mean.

I will say one thing, I'm glad I posted this to make sure noone else has this problem.

I know some of you think I'm an idiot but I asure you I'm not. I had read threads about burn-in being a thing of the past. I promise you it's not!

I bought a TV not a dang MRI machine. I guess I expected too much for $6000 acording to some of the replies on here. I'm not necessarly bashing Samsung, however, that's the brand that bit me.

I'm old enough to remember Atari coming out with PONG and my dad (in the 70's) telling me it would burn the phospurus (sp) on the CRT. WOW 2008 and a high dollar TV still doing the same thing?

I would totally understand that I screwed up if the TV was on for 4 months 24/7 4:3...but it wasn't! A couple hours a day 4-5 days a week...and this problem??

To the person that said something about printing manuals...YES if this thing is so suceptable to this...put a HUGE RED flier in the manual warning of this!

Hopefully this thread WILL warn people of it. I don't see everyone reading every word of a manual and digesting it, hell even reading the whole thing, I do have a life that's not focused on a TV....LET THE FLAMES FLY!

Anyway, I hope this helps the next guy..

Will someone tell me how long I need to run the scrolling thing or the DVD I made from majorloosers recomendation...

Thanks,
Todd

[annunaki]

Samsungs seem to be more susceptible to burn in than other plasmas. Why this is, I don't know? Panasonic and Pioneer do not seem to have any issues.

I have seen a 50px75u that had a stationary image on it for over 5+ hrs. It had some image retention for about 30 minutes but disappeared soon thereafter with no long term effects.

Plasma's benefits and few quirks far out weigh the disadvantages of LCD at this point in my opinion.

[02ViperTodd]

MAJORLOOSER,

I have to say..that video of Monty Python was great!!

As you can see from someone's post that the manual does say 5% of the time should only be 4:3...Well as far as I can calculate a 30 min show will have 3 breaks of 2 min commercials which is 33%. Most commericials I've seen are in the 4:3 format. Where do they calculate in the other shows that are brodcast in 4:3, and how do they remedy this? Obviosly one could never meet their 5% or less recomendation..

Open for review..

I guess I'm still an idiot...

Thanks,
Todd

[Pyrrho]

...

I know some of you think I'm an idiot but I asure you I'm not. I had read threads about burn-in being a thing of the past. I promise you it's not!
...

Indeed, one can read such nonsense here and at other web sites all the time. If burn-in were a thing of the past, the first brand that "solved" the problem would have given a warranty against it and bragged about it as a sales tactic. The people who say it is a thing of the past literally don't know what they are talking about. If they only read the manual to their plasma TVs they would know that it is very real.

To those who still insist it isn't real, READ YOUR DAMN MANUAL! What does the manufacturer say about it? Do you know more about it than they do? Yeah, right.

[TLS Guy]

MAJORLOOSER,

I have to say..that video of Monty Python was great!!

As you can see from someone's post that the manual does say 5% of the time should only be 4:3...Well as far as I can calculate a 30 min show will have 3 breaks of 2 min commercials which is 33%. Most commericials I've seen are in the 4:3 format. Where do they calculate in the other shows that are brodcast in 4:3, and how do they remedy this? Obviosly one could never meet their 5% or less recomendation..

Open for review..

I guess I'm still an idiot...

Thanks,
Todd

No! They, Samsung are the idiots. You just don't design something like that, let alone charge that kind of money.

[TLS Guy]

Indeed, one can read such nonsense here and at other web sites all the time. If burn-in were a thing of the past, the first brand that "solved" the problem would have given a warranty against it and bragged about it as a sales tactic. The people who say it is a thing of the past literally don't know what they are talking about. If they only read the manual to their plasma TVs they would know that it is very real.

To those who still insist it isn't real, READ YOUR DAMN MANUAL! What does the manufacturer say about it? Do you know more about it than they do? Yeah, right.

He should have read it before he bought it. Moving pixels works. I have played 4:3 material on mine for a lot more than 5% of the time and it is fine.

Bottom line, you know what brand to avoid in future.

[Emusica]

I've had a panny plasma for 3 years now. I play A LOT of video games, no poblems here. I watch ESPN HD all the damn time. The static ticker at the bottom has never burned in on my screen. I've never had an issue. Not saying that it couldn't happen, but it hasn't. ;)

[davidtwotrees]

I read a lot of threads here on Audioholics before making my recent choice of a Panny Plasma, Viera TH-42PX75U. Price was a big factor. But for all that the basic gist of what I read was that burn in was a thing of the past.
Gosh, reading this thread has sure got me reaching for my o.m. I don't watch a ton of tv, and am the only user of the unit. But, sheesh, what if I left it on accidentally one day?
So far I think the unit is a great piece of gear and I am very happy with it.
But I did buy it with the impression that burn in was a non issue.
<--------going to get manual out right now!
Thanks, Todd.

[canIscream]

I still think what's killing me is the fact that he paid that much for a television and he wasn't told by his sales guy every aspect of owning a plasma. The way I try to look at it is, people can research stuff themselves, and save a lot of money buying it on the internet. If you're going to go into a store and pay the extra premium, you better get the education you deserve. If I found out one of my employees did not educate someone FULLY on the differences between plasma and LCD and what the ups and downs of each are, i'd kill them. Especially someone who spent this much on a television.

[bandphan]

VT where are we with the setup disc? :confused: updates please

"If I found out one of my employees did not educate someone FULLY on the differences between plasma and LCD and what the ups and downs of each are, i'd kill them. Especially someone who spent this much on a television."

But make sure your employees are properly trained. Ive found that even some of the best employees at my local shop have been missinformed, or didnt get the just of what they were told. I use to go to mini ces that were sponsored by a local company for their employees, although they were informative, vendors reps sometimes didnt know there own products well or would parrot with the memory of a goldfish.

[canIscream]

VT where are we with the setup disc? :confused: updates please

"If I found out one of my employees did not educate someone FULLY on the differences between plasma and LCD and what the ups and downs of each are, i'd kill them. Especially someone who spent this much on a television."

But make sure your employees are properly trained. Ive found that even some of te best employees at my local shop have been missinformed, or did get the just of what they were told. I use to go to mini ces that were sponsored by a local company for their employees, although they were informative, vendors reps sometimes didnt know there own products well or would parrot with the memory of a goldfish.

I won't say all of my employees are trained flawlessly, but my top ones know more than most. They sure as hell know a lot more than the idiot product reps. If one of my newer guys has a big sale, until he's comfortable and certified, they're trained to do a "hand to" to one of our veteran sales guys who know to explain this sort of thing.

[davidtwotrees]

My Panasonic warranty is very explicit on burn in. Warranty "does not cover retained images on picture tubes resulting from viewing fixed images......". It goes on to mention letterboxing, non expanded 4:3, and logo retention as possible reasons for "image retention". But, this plasma has a screen saver function that is activated if the unit is not operated for a "certain" time in sd mode. I have yet to see the screen saver come up....

[bandphan]

My Panasonic warranty is very explicit on burn in. Warranty "does not cover retained images on picture tubes resulting from viewing fixed images......". It goes on to mention letterboxing, non expanded 4:3, and logo retention as possible reasons for "image retention". But, this plasma has a screen saver function that is activated if the unit is not operated for a "certain" time in sd mode. I have yet to see the screen saver come up....
you find most dont use this feature and it is set to off out of the box. This a thread that i have forwared to some clients that choose not to pay for setup.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=858851

also this a general info page
http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-burnin.html

[TLS Guy]

I use to go to mini ces that were sponsored by a local company for their employees, although they were informative, vendors reps sometimes didn't know there own products well, or would parrot with the memory of a goldfish.

Sounds like pharmaceutical reps!

[TLS Guy]

My Panasonic warranty is very explicit on burn in. Warranty "does not cover retained images on picture tubes resulting from viewing fixed images......". It goes on to mention letterboxing, non expanded 4:3, and logo retention as possible reasons for "image retention". But, this plasma has a screen saver function that is activated if the unit is not operated for a "certain" time in sd mode. I have yet to see the screen saver come up....

David,
I would go to your set up menu and see what your options are for preventing burn in. I bet your screen saver is turned off for a start. You may have other options. Mine has a lot, but default is to have them all turned off!

[jinjuku]

I still think what's killing me is the fact that he paid that much for a television and he wasn't told by his sales guy every aspect of owning a plasma. The way I try to look at it is, people can research stuff themselves, and save a lot of money buying it on the internet. If you're going to go into a store and pay the extra premium, you better get the education you deserve. If I found out one of my employees did not educate someone FULLY on the differences between plasma and LCD and what the ups and downs of each are, i'd kill them. Especially someone who spent this much on a television.

I said it in post
27 (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=390167&postcount=27)
"Ok, now let the excuses for not getting your learn on fly...".


They should have a huge warning on the cover of the manual warning people about this. First THREE pages is all I have to say. How, HOW can you not read the user guide on a $6K purchase!?

at the same time, someone spending that sort of money on a television expects it to work flawlessly. How does the amount of $$ you spend obviate the need to use your common sense? I would think that kind of cash outlay would require SOME due diligence. You know what they say about assumptions.

In summary, the first post of this thread should really read "Brand X" cause if you had done this with anyone else's plasma the results would have been the same and the warnings are just as obscure. Not really...:rolleyes: From Pioneer, to Panny, to Samsung, Hitachi, Fujitsu, they document this stuff quite well.

Indeed, why do they put in aspect ratio choices such that using them counts as "abuse" of the TV? The makers of the TVs are either morons or they want people to ruin their TVs. The information is out there, people just need to research and make a decision with information. That is why I don't own a plasma.


To the person that said something about printing manuals...YES if this thing is so suceptable [sic] to this...put a HUGE RED flier in the manual warning of this! Hopefully this thread WILL warn people of it. I don't see everyone reading every word of a manual and digesting it, hell even reading the whole thing, I do have a life that's not focused on a TV....LET THE FLAMES FLY! I don't know what to say about some one who won't read a manual for $6K purchase. A fool and their money. The first three pages, no more than a 60 second read tells you EVERY THING you need to know about burn in. Dear lord...:eek: Ignorance is not often rewarded. Can't feel for ya here. Excuse after excuse.

I still think what's killing me is the fact that he paid that much for a television and he wasn't told by his sales guy every aspect of owning a plasma I agree, that is what you would hope for and obviously pay for. Bottom line, it is a sales person, not a consultant. Again; Buyer Beware. Do your own homework.

I hope he can get his plasma straightened out. My goal here is really not to make people aware of burn in, it is to make people aware to do their own thinking and their own research before spending their hard earned dollar. If you don't understand what is in the user guide then understand you are beyond your technical ability and seek out advice.

[Hi Ho]

I just want to chime in here. I haven't read every post in this thread but I think some people make way too much out of this burn in thing.

I own a plasma TV. I have never once worried about whether watching the National Geographic channel for several hours straight would leave a little square in the bottom right corner of the screen. It hasn't happened. Same goes for watching movies with the bars on the top/bottom. There is absolutely no hint of burn in. I use my TV just like any other TV and I am still amazed by the picture and I simply don't even think about burn in. I've had my set for over four months now and it still looks like the day I got it. I'd put the picture quality up against any LCD on the market.

I think the problem in some sets stems from the panels. I have never been a fan of Samsung plasma sets and would never buy one myself based on the number of problems I have personally encountered with them at my job. We have sold hundereds of Panasonic and Pioneer plasma sets and have never had any problems. As far as I know we have never had a customer come back complaining about burn-in. The sets on display in the store show the same channel all day long and never show any signs of burn in.

[TLS Guy]

I just want to chime in here. I haven't read every post in this thread but I think some people make way too much out of this burn in thing.

I own a plasma TV. I have never once worried about whether watching the National Geographic channel for several hours straight would leave a little square in the bottom right corner of the screen. It hasn't happened. Same goes for watching movies with the bars on the top/bottom. There is absolutely no hint of burn in. I use my TV just like any other TV and I am still amazed by the picture and I simply don't even think about burn in. I've had my set for over four months now and it still looks like the day I got it.

I think the problem in some sets stems from the panels. I have never been a fan of Samsung plasma sets and would never buy one myself based on the number of problems I have personally encountered with them at my job. We have sold hundereds of Panasonic and Pioneer plasma sets and have never had any problems. As far as I know we have never had a customer come back complaining about burn-in.

So Annunaki is right, Samsungs are known for this, right? If so members beware. This is what I suspected, as I've had no problem either.

[Hi Ho]

We've replaced bad plasma panels in multiple Samsung sets. I've never seen a bad Panasonic or Pioneer panel. Samsung has also had issues with voltage regulation causing red sparkles in the picture. An adjustment usually fixes this but the problem usually returns within a few months.

I suspect that Samsung panels are more susceptible to burn in simply based on the fact that in servicing these sets I have seen evidence of image retention/burn in in sets that have been in a customers home for no more than 2-4 months.

[TLS Guy]

We've replaced bad plasma panels in multiple Samsung sets. I've never seen a bad Panasonic or Pioneer panel. Samsung has also had issues with voltage regulation causing red sparkles in the picture. An adjustment usually fixes this but the problem usually returns within a few months.

I suspect that Samsung panels are more susceptible to burn in simply based on the fact that in servicing these sets I have seen evidence of image retention/burn in in sets that have been in a customers home for no more than 2-4 months.

There you have it. The voice of experience. I think that ends the discussion, it does for me anyway. Members BEWARE. Junk is the most costly equipment you will buy.

[annunaki]

At the place I work part-time, I have seen a few Samsung's come back within a couple of weeks with said issues.

Never have we had a Panasonic come back with burn in. Rarely, if ever, do we get a Panasonic back period. :p

[gus6464]

At the place I work part-time, I have seen a few Samsung's come back within a couple of weeks with said issues.

Never have we had a Panasonic come back with burn in. Rarely, if ever, do we get a Panasonic back period. :p

When we first got our Panasonic plasma I warned my wife about keeping a static picture on for too long for the first 100 hours and she was very careful. I also ran the burn-in dvd for 2 days straight and just proceeded to normal use right after. A couple of weeks back she went out and forgot to turn off the TV so the DVR went into power save mode and just put white letters on a gray background right in the middle of the screen for about 5 hours. When I got home it had image retention but after 30 secs of normal TV playing it went away completely. Now I will say that we are not as careful as we were when we first got the TV but to this day we have encountered 0 problems with burn-in. IR is pretty common but goes away after turning off the TV or playing something for less than 30 secs. I would put some of the blame on the TV and not just the OP considering how old the TV is as it should have over 100 hours of usage already.

[02ViperTodd]

I'm glad that hopefully anyone considering buying this set DOES NOT!

I'm glad that you repair folks of this set concure with what I found out the hard ($6K) way.

Jeeze, sometimes posting on these sites can be a true test. You get some people who "know it all" and others who "read every word in the manual" and you feel like you've F***** up. I did nothing wrong and got screwed without a thank you, I might add.

Beware,
Todd

You may want to read my post on the receiver section for the Yamaha 863...bad news here too. Maybe I should just stay away from consumer electronics....

[bandphan]

Sorry for your misfortunes Todd. Yamaha makes excellent products, but as with any manufacture units can be subject to defect. The tv and the receiver are to completely different set of circumstances. As for staying away from ce, i would just research your purchases a little more, and find a good B&M that you can build a repore with. Bashing the vendors doesnt solve the problems you have and would only confuse new buyers that are looking for direction. Samsung TVs fit the bill for many consumers looking for price points only and dont have the need for higher end displays. As with many manufactures they make good, better and best, however their best may not rival others better, and this is where due diligence falls with the research.

And with all thats been said this thread should be closed.

[02ViperTodd]

Bandphan,

I didn't bash ANY vendor..However I did tell the truth about certain MANUFACTURES. What is the problem with bringing up the OBVIOUS problem with Samsung Plasmas? How would this new owner "fit the bill" He's getting screwed! I thought that is what this forum was all about..Obviously you think other.."new users" should be screwed too.

I disagree. I'll call a POS a POS and tell everyone of MY experience..Just like a review..You don't like it..sorry..

I thought this forum was about keeping new investors in their HT apprised about problems. BTW..You are bringing up the Yamaha problem here..There is another thread about this..Check it out.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42517

I'll tell everyone how the store handles this and I know they'll do the best (next day)

Talk to ya,
Todd

[unreal.freak]

POS!!!!:p


Peace,
Tommy

[bandphan]

Bandphan,

I didn't bash ANY vendor..However I did tell the truth about certain MANUFACTURES. What is the problem with bringing up the OBVIOUS problem with Samsung Plasmas? How would this new owner "fit the bill" He's getting screwed! I thought that is what this forum was all about..Obviously you think other.."new users" should be screwed too.

I disagree. I'll call a POS a POS and tell everyone of MY experience..Just like a review..You don't like it..sorry..

I thought this forum was about keeping new investors in their HT apprised about problems. BTW..You are bringing up the Yamaha problem here..There is another thread about this..Check it out.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42517

I'll tell everyone how the store handles this and I know they'll do the best (next day)

Talk to ya,
Todd

Todd just read what i said, i was trying to give you advice nothing more, and i did post on the yamaha thread twice. Sorry if there was offence taken, none meant


as for unreal freak, was that directed towards me?? if so feel free to pm so we may discuss

[unreal.freak]

as for unreal freak, was that directed towards me?? if so feel free to pm so we may discuss

It was absolutely, in no way,directed toward you.....Sorry if you took it that way. I was meerly admiring 02ViperTodds ability to stick to his guns, and that was my way of agreeing with him. There has been numerous posts before this one where other forum members have stated they have seen no issues with burn in on other brands of Plasmas no matter how they treated it. If the brand in question has an issue, then i feel it is only the consumer who got burned, in this case 02ViperTodd, responsibility to inform others about there experience.

This forums needs to make welcome members like him. He has been blasted time after time in this thread about not reading his manual yet he has kept his cool and pressed on. People can get their point across on these types of things without coming across brash.


I appreciate the thread 02ViperTodd. hope you get it sorted.

Again, sorry if you took my previous post as a slam on you bandphan. It was meerly an "Amen" in agreement to 02ViperTodds previous post about calling a POS a POS no matter what the brand or the circumstance.

Peace,
Tommy

[nybangali]

this has been very helpful

[canIscream]

bump. what did the store you bought it from say about the burn in?

[02ViperTodd]

They wouldn't address the burnin issue. They told me to talk to the manufacturer.

The manufacturer (Samsung) told me exactly what the start of this thread is.

Todd

[bandphan]

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/mad/1106.gif

[Biggiesized]

@bandphan

I just noticed your signature.

"But he's going to see the big board!"

[jonnythan]

This is what happens when you buy a plasma, ignore all reasonable advice (including the manual), and run it in super-high contrast and brightness viewing 4:3 content for hours on end.

Run a break in DVD and change your settings to something reasonable.

By the way, did hte Samsung representative say the actual quote in the title of this thread?

[Pyrrho]

This is what happens when you buy a plasma, ignore all reasonable advice (including the manual), ...

It is what can happen when one reads over and over from misinformed people posting that "burn-in isn't an issue anymore", and one foolishly believes these people. Generally speaking, an owner's manual is a much better source for advice than the comments from some person who posts on line, as one can never be sure that the person knows what they are talking about. One should always be careful about believing something one reads from people posting on line, even if many different people say the same thing. This brings to mind the logical fallacy known as argumentum ad populum, which is sometimes rendered as appeal to the many. Just because a bunch of people believe something, that does not make it true. The burn-in issue is a good example of this.

[jonnythan]

"The burn-in issue" is a result of people doing really braindead things with their TVs.

[bandphan]

Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face?

jack d ripper

[bandphan]

It is what can happen when one reads over and over from misinformed people posting that "burn-in isn't an issue anymore", and one foolishly believes these people. Generally speaking, an owner's manual is a much better source for advice than the comments from some person who posts on line, as one can never be sure that the person knows what they are talking about. One should always be careful about believing something one reads from people posting on line, even if many different people say the same thing. This brings to mind the logical fallacy known as argumentum ad populum, which is sometimes rendered as appeal to the many. Just because a bunch of people believe something, that does not make it true. The burn-in issue is a good example of this.

im not dissagreeing with not an issue, again with proper setup, and a quality product it isnt. Ive specd well over 30 plasmas in the last 3 years, and no burn in, i repeat no burn in:cool:

[PhilCohen]

Remember,Samsung is the same company that is refusing to provide any further firmware updates for certain Blu-Ray disc player models that have been rendered unuseable by recent changes in Blu-Ray disc encryption.As I recall,some angry customers are suing Samsung.

Luckily,I don't own any Samsung equipment, nor will I ever. They are obviously unresponsive to the consumers of their products.

[unreal.freak]

"The burn-in issue" is a result of people doing really braindead things with their TVs.

To quote the Water Boy "my moma said" if you dont have something nice to say, its best not to say anything at all.

Why would you say such harsh things? Who benefits from it?

And just an FYI, i was at Best Buy just 2 weeks ago looking at the LCD televisions. The television department head walks up to me and asks why am i considering LCD. I responded with "plasma burn in". He replied " lets look at this new Panasonic Plasma over there, It dont have that problem" Well i asked to see the manual on the set (awesome picture quality on the Panasonic), It says it right there in the manual that it is a risk. So with that being said. Its not just the customers who are misinformed. The retailers will lead you astray as well.

Im not Pro LCD or Pro Plasma, i like whatever i can afford, and fits my application. Im not gonna come into someones thread that just had thier teeth kicked in by bad luck and kick them while they are down. Lets all just get along........:confused:

[krzywica]

My LG plasma burns in all the time. But its only temporary burn in. Its not the consumers fault. What do you expect to happen when EVERY channel puts static watermarks on their content. Why do they do that anyway? Can't they just fade it in every five minuets....I know what channel I'm watching.....

Most sets these days have active burn in repair built right into the menu. I know mine does. So if you utilize this function at the first sign of burn in you should be fine.

Heck I game all the time on mine (PC Gaming) and I don't have ANY permanent burn in whatsoever.

[jinjuku]

To quote the Water Boy "my moma said" if you dont have something nice to say, its best not to say anything at all.

Why would you say such harsh things? Who benefits from it?

And just an FYI, i was at Best Buy just 2 weeks ago looking at the LCD televisions. The television department head walks up to me and asks why am i considering LCD. I responded with "plasma burn in". He replied " lets look at this new Panasonic Plasma over there, It dont have that problem" Well i asked to see the manual on the set (awesome picture quality on the Panasonic), It says it right there in the manual that it is a risk. So with that being said. Its not just the customers who are misinformed. The retailers will lead you astray as well.

Im not Pro LCD or Pro Plasma, i like whatever i can afford, and fits my application. Im not gonna come into someones thread that just had thier teeth kicked in by bad luck and kick them while they are down. Lets all just get along........:confused:

First off: I can't believe this thread is still alive and kicking.

Speaking of kicking; no one is kicking the OP whilst he is down. What is getting picked apart is the assumption made by the OP. That is perfectly fair game.

The over arching statement made is that Samsung is at fault and the consumer isn't. That got debunked pretty fast with a .PDF download of the user manual which is available before purchasing the TV in the first three pages.

I am all about helping someone and jumping on the bandwagon when they have been slighted. But if you post here asking for peoples sympathies because you were too *whatever* to read up before dropping $6K.

I can't feel sorry for someone with more money than smarts. I mean you actually have someone whining that the user guide is, gasp, 83 pages. That they have a 'Life' that is busy enough to preclude reading through a document that would take a single lunch break to peruse.

[unreal.freak]

First off: I can't believe this thread is still alive and kicking.

Speaking of kicking; no one is kicking the OP whilst he is down. What is getting picked apart is the assumption made by the OP. That is perfectly fair game.

The over arching statement made is that Samsung is at fault and the consumer isn't. That got debunked pretty fast with a .PDF download of the user manual which is available before purchasing the TV in the first three pages.

I am all about helping someone and jumping on the bandwagon when they have been slighted. But if you post here asking for peoples sympathies because you were too *whatever* to read up before dropping $6K.

I can't feel sorry for someone with more money than smarts. I mean you actually have someone whining that the user guide is, gasp, 83 pages. That they have a 'Life' that is busy enough to preclude reading through a document that would take a single lunch break to peruse.


You can interpret the comments made by some as you see fit, but the fact is they (the comments) were made to belittle the person who had the plasma burn in. In this case the original poster.

I never at any point seen anywhere he was seeking sympathy. That's something you and others have assumed.

the only thing i have seen is that he was trying to get his experience with this set/brand public, to keep others from making the same mistake as he did.

i have made only a few posts in this thread, Mostly to show support.

If all i had to say was negative i wouldn't have even posted on the subject.

You call it "picking apart" Ill call it kicking him when he is down.

We will have to agree to disagree.....cause i'm not changing my view of the above comments. And i doubt if you will either. But hey, I'm OK with disagreeing as long as its done civil :D

Peace To Ya!!
Tommy

[bandphan]

You can interpret the comments made by some as you see fit, but the fact is they (the comments) were made to belittle the person who had the plasma burn in. In this case the original poster.

I never at any point seen anywhere he was seeking sympathy. That's something you and others have assumed.

the only thing i have seen is that he was trying to get his experience with this set/brand public, to keep others from making the same mistake as he did.

i have made only a few posts in this thread, Mostly to show support.

If all i had to say was negative i wouldn't have even posted on the subject.

You call it "picking apart" Ill call it kicking him when he is down.

We will have to agree to disagree.....cause i'm not changing my view of the above comments. And i doubt if you will either. But hey, I'm OK with disagreeing as long as its done civil :D

Peace To Ya!!
Tommy

read the title of the thread:cool: no kicking stating facts only....

[croseiv]

Wow. This thread is still going huh. Amazing.:p

[unreal.freak]

read the title of the thread:cool: no kicking stating facts only....

The Title doesn't make me think anyone is out for sympathy. And that wasn't the title when originally posted. When i seen the title in the beginning it grabbed my attention and made me read the thread. My first reaction wasn't " Oh my God!, someone said something bad about a TV manufacturer".


I read the post and made up my own mind based on my knowledge of Plasma TVs. I was glad He posted this because it made me dig deeper into other areas and forums about Samsung, and also about Plasma TVs in general.

It didn't change the way i feel about Plasma TVs. I don't hold Plasma over LCD, Nor do i prefer LCD over Plasma.

All I'm trying to say is lighten up in the wording of the posts,

here are a few quotes from previous posts that come to mind
(none of which are beneficial or totally factual):

"I can't feel sorry for someone with more money than smarts"

"You wanted Samsung to put a big 'Purple Button' that says "place your brain here, you won't need it".

"Look, I don't know what research you did before plunking down $4K + for a TV, but I am pretty sure of what you didn't"

"This is what happens when you buy a plasma, ignore all reasonable advice (including the manual), and run it in super-high contrast and brightness viewing 4:3 content for hours on end."

"The burn-in issue" is a result of people doing really braindead things with their TVs."

I guess i could just quit reading any new posts on this thread if i didn't want to see guys taking cheap shots at the OP, but i was trying to follow the thread and hopefully see a favorable outcome.

Thats all, im done, My corner has thrown in the towel...:p:D

Peace,
Tommy

[jinjuku]

All I'm trying to say is lighten up in the wording of the posts,

here are a few quotes from previous posts that come to mind
(none of which are beneficial or totally factual):

"I can't feel sorry for someone with more money than smarts"

"You wanted Samsung to put a big 'Purple Button' that says "place your brain here, you won't need it".

"Look, I don't know what research you did before plunking down $4K + for a TV, but I am pretty sure of what you didn't"

"This is what happens when you buy a plasma, ignore all reasonable advice (including the manual), and run it in super-high contrast and brightness viewing 4:3 content for hours on end."

"The burn-in issue" is a result of people doing really braindead things with their TVs."

I guess i could just quit reading any new posts on this thread if i didn't want to see guys taking cheap shots at the OP, but i was trying to follow the thread and hopefully see a favorable outcome.

Thats all, im done, My corner has thrown in the towel...:p:D

Peace,
Tommy

Let me address the first three snippets since I posted them.

The more money than smarts; I am not the only one that read it that way. Heck I wasn't even the first to post such. For those that can read between the lines, the OP went and picked up a $6K TV, didn't read the user guide, had burn in after 4 months of usage, and THEN thought to get their learn on and found AH. To the astute observer of the way events unfolded, my comment is not unfounded. It is really a conclusion that is in all reasonablness.

On the comment knowing what research the OP didn't do; three minutes on Samsungs site netted me everything that I needed to know about the panel in question. Again, simple deduction and another correct conclusion drawn.

The 'The Big Purple' button is in response to consumers that won't self educate or find someone to help them in a very general sense. I happened to lay it out here. I am welcome to my opinion same as you are yours. Although I happen to think the group seeing it this way are in the majority here.

I think it sucks that Viper has a $6K expenditure that he can't really enjoy. I would hate to frickin' walk in my house after a hard days work and see the monster staring right back at me. I hope the tips and tricks here work for him and neither him or his plasma are burned.

I think it comes back to this: The OP posted here to vent and get help. I think he got some help and advise that he may not have wanted to hear. Some times it's just better to throw yourself to the mercy of the Jury than to hold to a tenuous posistion that some one else put the screws to you. There are 10's of thousands of happy Samsung plasma owners out there.:rolleyes:

[bandphan]

my comment on the title was that it indicated fault with the tv and the factory said so what, to bad. I do think after the short period of time that best buy or whoever he purchased from would have been more accomedating. This thread brought to light the need to research and understand purchases prior to making them, and thats good. Heck i didnt bump this thing, just jumped back on. I just picked up a new plasma last week and have been running the burn in disc since, just over a hundred hours so far.