Basement HT, framing next week, any advice?

[lzk4]

Hello,
I have learnt a lot the last few days reading the posts on this forum, thanks to all who participate. I'm getting my basement finished and to my surprise, my wife really wants to get a HT (projector/screen etc). Of course, the regular constraints: speakers have to be small, on the wall, no floor-standing, wires have to be behind dry-wall etc etc. I have a small closet underneath the stairs that I plan to use as an equipment closet (with a recessed wall cabinet/rack of some sort). I'm getting it framed next week and dry-walled the week after, and I have some decisions to make about pre-wiring. (see attached picture)

1. 7.1 system wiring, electrician will run "standard" 16/2 speaker wire from closet to each point. Is regular speaker wire sufficient or do I need branded (e.*. monster) wire?

2. Some use 16/4 wire: why use 4 stranded wire? Is 16/2 sufficient?

3. Subwoofer: I would like to prewire for 3 corners as I dont know where I'm putting the sub yet. No regular 16/2 speaker wire, right? Do I need special subwoofer wire or regular RG6? What about brand-name speaker wire (monster etc)?

4. For overhead projector, I plan on running component video wires from closet to projector point, about 15'. Should I run a HDMI cable too?

5. The ceiling is 8' high, and all speakers will be wall-mounted about 6' from floor. The rear speakers on the back wall will be 4' away from corner, 8' apart. The other 2 rear speakers on the side-walls will be about 4 or 5' from corner. Are these distances sufficient?

6. The center channel needs to be on wall behind screen to keep it away from the kids, with a perforated screen. Will the picture quality be significantly degraded by using a perforated screen?

7. I want to pre-wire for the possibility of putting a plasma on the far wall instead of a screen, but component video/hdmi is too expensive for just a possibility. Can I run 3 regular RG6 wires for now and use them as component video?

8. Also running CAT5 wires put in for an Infrared repeater/extender system like Xantech or Niles Audio. I plan on putting a ceiling mounted infrared sensor just in front of the screen. Not going with RF system.

9. Finally for the cabinet itself, I plan on having the contractor build me 20"W X 20"D X 48"H closet with maybe 4-5 shelves. I can't find any inexpensive cabinets of that size. Should I look at audio racks with a plexiglass door instead... any info on where I can get one that not too expensive ($100-$200).

BTW, I have short-listed the equipment I plan on putting in. This is just a short-list, havent had time to go listen to any of them yet.
Receiver: Denon 3805 or Yamaha 2400
Speakers: Sat/Sub system like Paradigm Cinema70, Energy Encore, DefTech Procinema 100
Projector: LCD Sanyo PLV-Z2 or Panasonic L500U
Screen: 106 or 110" tensioned, perforated Da-lite (gray)

Sorry for the long post, I've tried to be as thorough as possible. Thanks in advance for any advice/opinions.

Vasu

[mtrycrafts]

Hello,
I have learnt a lot the last few days reading the posts on this forum, thanks to all who participate. I'm getting my basement finished and to my surprise, my wife really wants to get a HT (projector/screen etc). Of course, the regular constraints: speakers have to be small, on the wall, no floor-standing, wires have to be behind dry-wall etc etc. I have a small closet underneath the stairs that I plan to use as an equipment closet (with a recessed wall cabinet/rack of some sort). I'm getting it framed next week and dry-walled the week after, and I have some decisions to make about pre-wiring. (see attached picture)

1. 7.1 system wiring, electrician will run "standard" 16/2 speaker wire from closet to each point. Is regular speaker wire sufficient or do I need branded (e.*. monster) wire?

2. Some use 16/4 wire: why use 4 stranded wire? Is 16/2 sufficient?

3. Subwoofer: I would like to prewire for 3 corners as I dont know where I'm putting the sub yet. No regular 16/2 speaker wire, right? Do I need special subwoofer wire or regular RG6? What about brand-name speaker wire (monster etc)?

4. For overhead projector, I plan on running component video wires from closet to projector point, about 15'. Should I run a HDMI cable too?

5. The ceiling is 8' high, and all speakers will be wall-mounted about 6' from floor. The rear speakers on the back wall will be 4' away from corner, 8' apart. The other 2 rear speakers on the side-walls will be about 4 or 5' from corner. Are these distances sufficient?

6. The center channel needs to be on wall behind screen to keep it away from the kids, with a perforated screen. Will the picture quality be significantly degraded by using a perforated screen?

7. I want to pre-wire for the possibility of putting a plasma on the far wall instead of a screen, but component video/hdmi is too expensive for just a possibility. Can I run 3 regular RG6 wires for now and use them as component video?

8. Also running CAT5 wires put in for an Infrared repeater/extender system like Xantech or Niles Audio. I plan on putting a ceiling mounted infrared sensor just in front of the screen. Not going with RF system.

9. Finally for the cabinet itself, I plan on having the contractor build me 20"W X 20"D X 48"H closet with maybe 4-5 shelves. I can't find any inexpensive cabinets of that size. Should I look at audio racks with a plexiglass door instead... any info on where I can get one that not too expensive ($100-$200).

BTW, I have short-listed the equipment I plan on putting in. This is just a short-list, havent had time to go listen to any of them yet.
Receiver: Denon 3805 or Yamaha 2400
Speakers: Sat/Sub system like Paradigm Cinema70, Energy Encore, DefTech Procinema 100
Projector: LCD Sanyo PLV-Z2 or Panasonic L500U
Screen: 106 or 110" tensioned, perforated Da-lite (gray)

Sorry for the long post, I've tried to be as thorough as possible. Thanks in advance for any advice/opinions.

Vasu

Boy, you are cutting it very close. I like such planning in the can before work starts. Old addage: haste makes waste :)

Let's see if I can help with some of your issues:

#1. regular speaker wire is fine but if I can talk you into 14ga or even 12 ga to the electrical boxes supporting speakers, you would be better off. Your runs by wire lengths will be long. No need for brand name wire anywhere, especially the expensive Monster brand.

#2. I presume some use 4 conductor for assurance that nothing will happen to the other two and you would have to rewire that box afterwards, a remodeling job that is not fun. Up to you.

#3. Subwoofer. Today most are powered. So, you need a 120V outlet nearby each corner as a starter. Use the RG6 type cable, not speaker wire. Subwoofer wire is equivalent to RG6 type without the extra $$.

#4. Video. You need to know what the projector will take. I would wire several options just in case. Some of that wire is cheap and remodeling is expensive and a headache. If that projector will take the DVI use that too but your DVD player will need that capability as well, of course.
You need a 120V outlet in the ceiling for the projector. Consider a 12V trigger wire from the projector to the screen so it will come down when the projector is turned on.
You also need 120V where the screen if it is retractable, is and if you use the 12 v trigger, you need an outlet for that by the screen. This way, you only need one sensor by the projector to turn it on and lower the screen. Make sure the sensor is in line of the sitting position for the remote. Zantech is good :)

#5. Your room layout is far from ideal. I have questions about placing the front speakers so high. If you can lower it. You should also know how low the screen will come and may want to place it on the centerline of the white portion. Also, as a note, you don't want the bottom of the white portion too high or you will get a sore neck looking up.
The side wall speakers should be in line with your shoulder/ear in the sitting area, not too low, not too high. The rear wall speakers should be closer than 8 ft., maybe 4-6 ft. They are almost a center rear channel speakers since the rear center is only one channel.

#6. No, the picture will not suffer but your speakers will. You will need to adjust it with the screens in place. If you just listen to music without the screen, the center will be louder.

#7. Yes, 3 RG6 type is fine for component video. I don't think you will like it in that large room though.

#8. Touched on this in #4 but a Cat 5 may be too much cable unless you can get 1 pair type as that is all you need.

#9. I would not skimp on the cabinet in that nice setup. A couple of considerations. Ventillation and easy acces to the back of the components. Pull out shelves if you cannot walk behind it. I would plan on more shelves than you initially think you need. Place it ergonomically so you are not on your knees to change DVDs/Cd, etc. Maybe waiste high at least?
You shouyld make it at least 20" wide, 22" better and 24" deep.

[mtrycrafts]

I failed to ask your planning acoustic noise control leak to the rest of the house? Now is the time while there is a bit of chance to frame differently or finishing.

[lzk4]

Thanks for the great and detailed answer. Your recommendations do make a lot of sense

As for the 12V trigger from projector to screen, what kind of wire is it? (CAT5, 2-wire or quad-wire). I will have an infrared extender, with a ceiling mounted IR sensor and flashers for the equipment in the closet. Would the trigger wire then run from the closet to the screen or projector to the screen? I'm not sure if the Sanyo or Panasonic have triggers, I will need to do some research. Also, Da-lite has optional low-voltage IR remote for their screens, maybe I could just use that?

As for sound-proofing, I'm not sure if I can have the contractor frame differently, but I'll ask. I'm not sure he'll know much about sound proofing, though.

Thanks again
Vasu

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks for the great and detailed answer. Your recommendations do make a lot of sense

I am just here to help those who seek it :D

As for the 12V trigger from projector to screen, what kind of wire is it? (CAT5, 2-wire or quad-wire).

It needs two wires which is one pair. It sends a 12 V signal to lower and raise the screen as you turn on and off the projector. So, with that, you can place the IR sensor by the projector. That sensor will turn on th eprojector and another pair, 2 wires back to the equipment center will redirect remote commands to the receiver, DVD player, etc, so you will need a sensor on each component there byt if you call Xantach or on line, they will have wiring suggestions and needed parts.



I will have an infrared extender, with a ceiling mounted IR sensor and flashers for the equipment in the closet. Would the trigger wire then run from the closet to the screen or projector to the screen?

If you use a motorized screen that retracts and it has the 12 V trigger capability, your IR sensor is at the projector.

I'm not sure if the Sanyo or Panasonic have triggers, I will need to do some research.

I would be surprized if it doesn't. But you better check it out.

Also, Da-lite has optional low-voltage IR remote for their screens, maybe I could just use that?

Optional at a price? You may want to see if it is less to use the 12V triggering. But, if the projector doesn't have it, then you need the IR option, yes.

By the way, if you are planning to build a nice box around the projector, you can put th eIR sensor in the bottom in a corner where it can be insonspicuous ;)

As for sound-proofing, I'm not sure if I can have the contractor frame differently, but I'll ask. I'm not sure he'll know much about sound proofing, though.


Well, for starters, he can place soundboard under the sheetrock. He can mount Z strips on the framing to hang the sheetrock that will minimize soind transmission to the house frame and the rest of the house. He can place electric boxes so they minimize sound pass through to the room on the other side. He can pack the walls with insulation. If you have the budget and space, you can have double walls that would really reduce the sound, especially if your pack in insulation.
You will not be able to eliminate the subwoofer sound unless you isolate the whole room totally, its own foundation, etc.

[lzk4]

Thanks again. Sorry, but I'm still a bit confused about the 12 V trigger wire. I will install the IR sensor (for the IR extender) on the ceiling in front of the screen (maybe like 12" in front of screen). This sensor will located between the projector and screen, and I will run CAT5 wire from this location to the closet. I have the IR extender unit in the closet, with flashers to the equip in the closet. I plan on using either Xantech or Niles Audio.

Do I need another 2-wire from the projector to the screen, or do I wire from projector to closet and then closet to screen, via the extender unit? I'm still not getting how the trigger wire works with the IR extender system.

Vasu

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks again. Sorry, but I'm still a bit confused about the 12 V trigger wire. I will install the IR sensor (for the IR extender) on the ceiling in front of the screen (maybe like 12" in front of screen). This sensor will located between the projector and screen, and I will run CAT5 wire from this location to the closet. I have the IR extender unit in the closet, with flashers to the equip in the closet. I plan on using either Xantech or Niles Audio.

Do I need another 2-wire from the projector to the screen, or do I wire from projector to closet and then closet to screen, via the extender unit? I'm still not getting how the trigger wire works with the IR extender system.

Vasu

How will your projector turn on? How will the screen lower?
If you have the IR sensor as you indicate and run a wire from it to the equipment cabinet, only those componets will be controlled..

Here is what you need from Xantech:
490-30 IR receiver at projector. That goes into789-44 connecting block. The connecting block needs 120V too for the small power supply to the connecting block plus the projector. You need a 282-00 emitter from the block to the projector so it can be controlled by the remote.

Cat 5, 2 wire from the connectong block at th eprojector to the cabinet. Another 789-44 connecting block at the equipment cabinet with 282-00 emitters to each component.

You need a cat5 wire for the 12 V trigger signal from the projector to the screen. 120 V at the screen for the up/down motor.

See if there is an on line diagram at Xantech for all this. These numbers may be old.

Is this better?

[Karp]

Thanks again. Sorry, but I'm still a bit confused about the 12 V trigger wire. I will install the IR sensor (for the IR extender) on the ceiling in front of the screen (maybe like 12" in front of screen). This sensor will located between the projector and screen, and I will run CAT5 wire from this location to the closet. I have the IR extender unit in the closet, with flashers to the equip in the closet. I plan on using either Xantech or Niles Audio.

Do I need another 2-wire from the projector to the screen, or do I wire from projector to closet and then closet to screen, via the extender unit? I'm still not getting how the trigger wire works with the IR extender system.

Vasu

If you are using the Dennon 3805, you can assign one of it's triggers for the screen. I assume the Yamaha also has programable triggers as well. You would send the trigger wire from the projector (if it has one) or the receiver directly to the screen. The IR extender would just send the command to the repeater for the projector or the receiver - Although you MAY not need a repeater for the projector if the remote is strong enough to bounce a signal from the front wall to the projector.

[lzk4]

OK, I think I get it. I will run a wire from the projector to the screen location and then also from cabinet (housing a/v receiver) to screen, so I can trigger from either location. What is the kind of wire I need to install? CAT5 has 8 wires, but I thought I need just 2 wires. Is it just regular 18/2 (18 guage x 2 strands) wire, or a different kind of wire? Can I just run regular telephone wire (4 wires?)

Thanks again
Vasu

[Karp]

OK, I think I get it. I will run a wire from the projector to the screen location and then also from cabinet (housing a/v receiver) to screen, so I can trigger from either location. What is the kind of wire I need to install? CAT5 has 8 wires, but I thought I need just 2 wires. Is it just regular 18/2 (18 guage x 2 strands) wire, or a different kind of wire? Can I just run regular telephone wire (4 wires?)

Thanks again
Vasu

You can even run a pair of 24 gauge wires if you want. Telephone wire will work as well. The only reason to run Cat5 would be to have additional wires available for the future. CAT5 is pretty cheap and you may kick yourself later if you need to make another run and have to tear your ceiling apart a year or two from now.

[FLZapped]

How are you planning on keeping that equipment cool locked away in that closet?

-Bruce :eek:

[Dan]

I have a couple of thoughts.

How about an in wall center channnel below the screen? I am not an in wall fan but it may sound better than the perforated screen.

Also moving on to the next step, the walls. I have heard that plaster makes for a wonderful sounding room. If not consider double drywall which should improve acoustics as well as help to isolate the room from the rest of the house.

[lzk4]

How are you planning on keeping that equipment cool locked away in that closet?

-Bruce :eek:

I hope to get a custom-built closet with the back open. The back of it opens into the portion under the stairs, from which there is another 18" or so to the wall.

I spoke to Da-lite and they claim that a perforated screen does not degrade the picture quality much. I dont know where I can compare the two screens here. Yes, the in-wall center channel might work below screen might work, I will have to put some extra length on the center channel cable so that I can place the speaker top or bottom.

Thanks for all your help
Vasu

[mtrycrafts]

is getting along. Where are you with it? What have you decided on doing after all the inputs?

How is it coming together?

[lzk4]

The electrician is pre-wiring the stuff this week. I'm running HDMI and component video from cabinet to projector, and CAT5 for 12 volt trigger from projector to wall junction box controlling the screen. Its too late to get Z framing for soundproofing etc, but I am getting insulation in the exterior walls. Also running CAT5 for a IR repeater system. Using regular 12/2 wire for speaker from Lowes and regular RG6 w/ 90% braid for subwoofer.

Thanks again to all for the great input and advice.
Vasu

[Yamaman]

Hey Izk4,

I'm also in the same boat as you. My basement will be open concept; I could partition to make a fully enclosed room, but it would be rather small and not ideal if I plan to have company over. It may help if I run drape over one side and slide in place when we're watching a movie.

Framing is almost finished and electricals will start this week. I was going to make a cabinet in a similar location as yours- in a lot of ways it makes sense, but in the end I opted to have a cabinet (drywall) built around two metal columns that are somewhat in the middle of the basement, next to my HT area. This essentially hides the two supports that are not aligned with each other and at the same time, makes a great place for the A/V equipment. On the other side, there will be a display case/shelf. From the display case side, I will have an access panel that will reveal 6" deep conduit for all the cables. The location of this cabinet reduces my video cable lengths quite considerably. I will also have a front projector.

Good luck with your HT room. I hope it all works out. I'm rather anxious and a bit stressed with all this basement reno stuff.

[Yamaman]

Oh yeah, I'll be running PVC conduit (~2") at strategic locations for future upgrade. I'm not sure if you're doing this too, but it may be worth it, especially as PVC piping is cheap!

[mtrycrafts]

Oh yeah, I'll be running PVC conduit (~2") at strategic locations for future upgrade. I'm not sure if you're doing this too, but it may be worth it, especially as PVC piping is cheap!


You may want to check code if PVC is allowed in wall. It may need to be that grey conduit. That may also be PVC, I don't know :( .

You sure you need 2" ? That is pretty large and a big hole to cut in the studs.

[Rob Babcock]

"Basement HT, framing next week, any advice?"

Yeah, don't smack your thumbs! :D Sorry, can't help it- I'm all wound up today.

[mtrycrafts]

Hey Izk4,

I'm also in the same boat as you. My basement will be open concept; I could partition to make a fully enclosed room, but it would be rather small and not ideal if I plan to have company over. It may help if I run drape over one side and slide in place when we're watching a movie.



The only drawback is the sound transmission to the rest of the house. But, it may not be a problem in your case. Late night watching and kids sleeping maybe or not a problem. Drapes can block light only.

[Yamaman]

You may want to check code if PVC is allowed in wall. It may need to be that grey conduit. That may also be PVC, I don't know .

It must be allowed, that's what the drain lines are made of (at least here in Canada). No issues with fire. Also, I'll be running the conduit along boxed ducts at the ceiling where there is plenty of interstitial space. Vertical lines will come in my furnace room and a closet where walls will be unfinished. Also, my perimeter walls are 2.5" metal studs and the partition walls are 3.5"- nice and solid and plenty of room to run conduit. I figure, the larger the diameter, the easier it is to fish new cables.


The only drawback is the sound transmission to the rest of the house. But, it may not be a problem in your case. Late night watching and kids sleeping maybe or not a problem. Drapes can block light only.

Yes, we'll just close the basement door. Kid's rooms are on the second floor two flights up, so it shouldn't be a problem. I'm not too worried about sound insulation in the basement. If it was on the main floor, then yes, I would definately do it.

"Basement HT, framing next week, any advice?"

Planning is key. I used a technical drawing program to draw out the layout. I prefer metal studs at they are lighter, easier to work with (just need metal snips), provide perfectly straight walls and are resistant to mold, mildew, termites and fire. Use wood studs for door framing however (that's where metal studs don't really cut it). If you plan to frame yourself and don't have a whole lot of experience, then you really need to imagine how the frames will take form. Walls must be square to each other and studs must be plumb. Framing is very important because its the foundation for how your walls will look in the end. Personally, I hired a professional- got a good price and his workmanship is top-notch.

[mtrycrafts]

It must be allowed, that's what the drain lines are made of (at least here in Canada). No issues with fire. Also, I'll be running the conduit along boxed ducts at the ceiling where there is plenty of interstitial space. Vertical lines will come in my furnace room and a closet where walls will be unfinished. Also, my perimeter walls are 2.5" metal studs and the partition walls are 3.5"- nice and solid and plenty of room to run conduit. I figure, the larger the diameter, the easier it is to fish new cables.




Yes, we'll just close the basement door. Kid's rooms are on the second floor two flights up, so it shouldn't be a problem. I'm not too worried about sound insulation in the basement. If it was on the main floor, then yes, I would definately do it.



Planning is key. I used a technical drawing program to draw out the layout. I prefer metal studs at they are lighter, easier to work with (just need metal snips), provide perfectly straight walls and are resistant to mold, mildew, termites and fire. Use wood studs for door framing however (that's where metal studs don't really cut it). If you plan to frame yourself and don't have a whole lot of experience, then you really need to imagine how the frames will take form. Walls must be square to each other and studs must be plumb. Framing is very important because its the foundation for how your walls will look in the end. Personally, I hired a professional- got a good price and his workmanship is top-notch.


Looks like you have done pre-planning. That is what I tell friends. You plan now or remodel later, real soon:)

PVC may emit toxic fumes if there is a fire? We have that 4 letter pipe here, too many to remember for long :)

Yep, lager dia pipe is real easy to pull through. ;)

[lzk4]

Yamaman,
I think my basement is very similar to yours. I have a soffit boxing the HVAC duct running across the basement, and the electrician is putting in a PVC conduit from the cabinet to projector (HDMI + component). I'll have to double check the size.

I too have 2 close columns just as you come down the staircase, which are getting boxed into a rectangular column, and I could have put in equip there, but I have 2 little kids and my son's friends come over too. Too dangerous, hence the cabinet in the side wall.

My electrician is very impressed by the amount of planning I put into the HT wiring (thanks to this forum!).. he's a bit clueless about electronics. I had approached Tweeter to do the pre-wiring, but they gave me an outrageous price (incl equip). I just used powerpoint to draw the layout, I used to use CAD (i used to be a structural engineer), but have no time now.

[Yamaman]

Hey Izk4,

We should trade notes- haha; at the foot of the stairs, the two posts are off to the side, about 4 feet apart. As I mentioned before, it's a double sided cabinet- one side will be a display case (on the "stair side") and the other side will be the A/V case. I'm still figuring out how to make the back panel of the display case such that it can be easily removed to expose the back of all my A/V components (receiver, DVD player, etc). A conduit will also feed into the access space (speaker wires, A/V cables).

My kids are 7 and 4 and they know not to touch my stuff :eek: ....I hope.

Just finished framing this cabinet last night. It was rather intricate- took the framer about 3 hours to do it. He said most contractors would quote this separately cause it takes a fair amount of studs and labor. I'm really happy with it though- he did an amazing job!

Goes to show, if you get the right person (people) to renovate your house, it can actually be a very positive experience.