HD DVD Should Re-think PR After Beatings From Netflix and Best Buy

[admin]

When you work for the HD DVD Promotions Group you look forward to Friday. So far this week - Netflix announced it’s dropping HD DVD and Best Buy, the country’s largest consumer electronics retailer, announced its endorsement for Blu-ray. What does Best Buy think it is – Ted Kennedy?
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/hd-dvd-netflix-best-buy/image_thumb

Discuss "HD DVD Should Re-think PR After Beatings From Netflix and Best Buy" here. Read the article (http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/hd-dvd-netflix-best-buy).

[Biggiesized]

Excellent editorial. I've read a lot about this news over the past few days and no one has taken this stance yet. Instead everyone has piled on HD DVD even further. It's refreshing to read this point of view.

[Wayde Robson]

I'm surprised nobody has pointed out how hollow BB's endorsement is when they're still stocking HD DVD, it means practically nothing.

If only I had a hidden camera for every time I've gone into a BB to ask (admittedly unserious) questions and got some oddball answers.

Hmm... hidden BB cam, gives me a great idea for an ongoing video blog piece.

Not to be insultive toward BB employees, I know they're just regular folks but they're undertrained to be giving advice on CE. That what places like Audioholics are for. But I've asked obvious stupid stuff and gotten the 'wrong' answer. For instance:

Me at BB: Since I am vegan, I'll need to know if the plasma in your HDTVs comes from a non-animal source.

BB: I'll have to check on that.

[stratman]

I never saw it as a "war" of technology. It was more like like a schoolyard tussle "who's got the best PR." Blu-ray marketing/PR did a better job that's all, they convinced the majority that BD is the best choice. Wait and see what happens as they try and convince Joe and Mary to switch from SD DVD to BD. If the HD DVD group would have done a better ad/pr campaign the results would've been different.

It's perception, BB "dropping" HD DVD alludes that it's dead or dying. It plays on the consumer's psyche. As for stocking, I'm sure they'll want to dump as much inventory as they can.

[Johnd]

I'm surprised nobody has pointed out how hollow BB's endorsement is when they're still stocking HD DVD, it means practically nothing.


Hey. Wait a minute. How about some credit where credit is due (post #11):
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41031&page=2
How come no one listens to me around here? :mad::p

Another nice article Wayde.

[gliz]

Blu-ray players are still to expensive cheapst I have seen one is $399

[dobyblue]

They're still stocking SACD's in a small section in several stores as well.

It's not a hollow endorsement if their policy becomes to recommend and spotlight Blu-ray Discs. Perhaps they will move the HD DVD section to a less prominent area, like they do with DVD-A and SACD right now.

Anyway I disagree with the article, the next thing the HD DVD PG should do is give up the ghost. It's so friggin' over it's not even funny.

Toshiba is no doubt looking to enter the Blu-ray hardware market soon enough.

[Clint DeBoer]

To me it read a little like Rush Limbaugh touting Conservatism... Best Buy has ALWAYS pushed Blu-ray. For them to make this statement is clarifying what was obvious to the rest of us from the start.

[gliz]

if I was a retailer, I would push the discs that played on the more expensive players. every one in this forum must be dripping with cash because the price if the BD players does not seem to bother anyone but me.:)

[Wayde Robson]

My recommendations on what HD DVD should do next are only half serious. Obviously they have two choices. Give up or fight.

If they're going to stay in and fight they need to sound like they mean it!

I am personally able to playback both formats in my HT system.

This 'war' could drag out for a long time just because it's really quite small. I don't think there is a lot of impetus for the studios or consumers to resolve it.

High-def discs are such small potatoes to studios that you still may never see a Warner title like Batman Begins released in Blu-ray.

[stratman]

To be frank, when the ball starts rolling on something like this, it takes a miracle to turn it back. I remember when LD was coming to an end, the proponents were screaming that LD is better, DVD uses too much compression, blah, blah,blah.....I began to see the prices on LDs drop like lead, I started to see more DVDs being offered, suddenly retailers said they would stock more DVDs, but will keep LDs in stock, yeah right! I remember this like it was yesterday, I walked into Incredible Universe, no LD players on the shelves, LDs were on a bin on close out, I bought a few. And luckily I never blew a big wad on LDs, so little by little I've collected DVDs over the years, I have a very small collection about 100, but now if forced to make a change, it won't hurt replacing 100 versus 400.

[gliz]

To be frank, when the ball starts rolling on something like this, it takes a miracle to turn it back. I remember when LD was coming to an end, the proponents were screaming that LD is better, DVD uses too much compression, blah, blah,blah.....I began to see the prices on LDs drop like lead, I started to see more DVDs being offered, suddenly retailers said they would stock more DVDs, but will keep LDs in stock, yeah right! I remember this like it was yesterday, I walked into Incredible Universe, no LD players on the shelves, LDs were on a bin on close out, I bought a few. And luckily I never blew a big wad on LDs, so little by little I've collected DVDs over the years, I have a very small collection about 100, but now if forced to make a change, it won't hurt replacing 100 versus 400.

completly agree I rember that too.

[slim340]

I work for Best Buy here in Baton Rouge, La. and I just have to say that since the beginning, B.B. has been backing Blu-Ray. When HD-DVD came out with machines and software first, it did not get the treatment you would expect. It was placed on an end-cap next to the appliances. But when BR came out, despite the fact the machines, the Sony BDP-S1 which barely worked and the Samsung BD-P1000/XA which never really worked, they were put on the floor front and center. Each subsequent generation of BR player gets a better payed for display, while HD-DVD does not. One month ago when we (B.B.) started giving away 3 free BR movies for buying a 1080p HDTV, not a player, everyone at my store had confirmed what we had already known. Our installers on the other hand, see HD-DVD in homes at a nearly 5:1 ratio. The one thing that bothers me in the whole thing is the fact that when our customers find out BR players rarely play a new BR release without a firmware update and will probably always need one, they get kind of turned off. Thanks for letting me rant.

[patnshan]

.... every one in this forum must be dripping with cash because the price if the BD players does not seem to bother anyone but me.:)

Nope, you're not. It bothers me to pay $399 for a half ready player (yes, even the PS3 without the reported upcoming firmware), so I won't.

I will pay $299 max for a profile 2.0 player (not just the "to be updated" promise;)) that can play and take advantage of everything on every disc. Until then, I'll enjoy HD DVD and VOD HD.

Pat

[stratman]

Early adopters get burned, that's an irrevocable law. It doesn't matter whether it's cars, computers, or A/V, you pay to be the first kid on the block with the new gadget.:D

[aberkowitz]

Early adopters get burned, that's an irrevocable law. It doesn't matter whether it's cars, computers, or A/V, you pay to be the first kid on the block with the new gadget.:D

And not only that- you pay a premium to get screwed!!! :D

[alexsound]

I work for Best Buy here in Baton Rouge, La. and I just have to say that since the beginning, B.B. has been backing Blu-Ray. When HD-DVD came out with machines and software first, it did not get the treatment you would expect. It was placed on an end-cap next to the appliances. But when BR came out, despite the fact the machines, the Sony BDP-S1 which barely worked and the Samsung BD-P1000/XA which never really worked, they were put on the floor front and center. Each subsequent generation of BR player gets a better payed for display, while HD-DVD does not. One month ago when we (B.B.) started giving away 3 free BR movies for buying a 1080p HDTV, not a player, everyone at my store had confirmed what we had already known. Our installers on the other hand, see HD-DVD in homes at a nearly 5:1 ratio. The one thing that bothers me in the whole thing is the fact that when our customers find out BR players rarely play a new BR release without a firmware update and will probably always need one, they get kind of turned off. Thanks for letting me rant.


The 2 BB's I go to here in Orlando have had prominent HD-DVD displays, right next to the Magnolia sections for at least 6 to 7 months. The BD display is down about 3 to 4 aisles down around the regular DVD player and DVD/VCR combo sections. Softwarewise, both stores I go to have the same amount of space allocated for BD and HD-DVD. In the newspaper adds, up until recently, I haven't seen much of a difference in advertising, other than there have been more models of BD hardware that have been promoted (because there are more brands out there) than HD-DVD hardware.

I've been to other BB's in Central Florida, and have noticed the same thing. I will admit, I own a PS3 and about 20 BD movies (NEVER have had a problem with playback in any way), but it seems like many here are implying that HD-DVD isn't getting a fair shake and the reality is, IT DOESN'T MATTER which is the better system of playback, it's about MARKETING, and Toshiba has done a really, really crappy job. They have no one to blame but themselves. They couldn't align any of the major Japanese manufactuers with themselves, and could only muster half of the major studios to support them early on. ON TOP OF THAT, they had a pretty big headstart over BD in both hardware and software, thanks to Sony's early on PS3 supply fiasco.
As for which is the superior system, they both are as capable as each other as far as picture quality and sound quality is concerned for the most part.
One more thing to remember. Sony created Beta. If anyone here is old enough to have expereinced Beta vs VHS, Beta was CLEARLY, as far as picture quality was concerned, a superior format. It was a VISIBLE difference, and Sony still lost that format war. Sony learned from JVC's victory on this one, and just applied it to beating Toshiba, who apparently has a very short memory of the past.
I guess that's my rant.

[Alamar]

My recommendations on what HD DVD should do next are only half serious. Obviously they have two choices. Give up or fight.

If they're going to stay in and fight they need to sound like they mean it!

I am personally able to playback both formats in my HT system.

This 'war' could drag out for a long time just because it's really quite small. I don't think there is a lot of impetus for the studios or consumers to resolve it.

High-def discs are such small potatoes to studios that you still may never see a Warner title like Batman Begins released in Blu-ray.

If they're going to fight they need weapons and the only thing that I can think of would likely hurt the HD camp more than help it.

Basically they need to get as many players AND movies into the hands of as many different consumers as possible. The only possible way that I see to do this would be:

1. Stop making DVD-only releases.
2. You convert everything over to HD-DVD releases.
3. You include a real DVD [separate disks?] with all HD-DVD titles.
4. You reduce prices dramatically so they are at roughly current DVD prices.

This way you don't hurt your DVD sales much and you get HD-DVD disks into people's hands fast. IF consumers have a lot of HD-DVDs in their hands then they will tend to upgrade players IF they can get them for the magic 100$ mark ....

Now as to whether the above strategy is actually VIABLE is a different matter entirely ....

[CaliHwyPatrol]

I noticed that last Sunday's ads for BB and CC had a section for their HD DVD players and movies, as well as promotions and discounts for them, whereas there was almost nothing for Blu Ray, just showing the price of the Sony player IIRC.

What gives?

[MUDSHARK]

Early adopters get burned, that's an irrevocable law. It doesn't matter whether it's cars, computers, or A/V, you pay to be the first kid on the block with the new gadget.:D

Like to buy a Tandy color computer cheap:D

[stratman]

Like to buy a Tandy color computer cheap:D

Man! I remember the amber colored screens on some of the eraly 'puters, nasty! Or how about the spinach-green ones!:eek:

[stratman]

The 2 BB's I go to here in Orlando have had prominent HD-DVD displays, right next to the Magnolia sections for at least 6 to 7 months. The BD display is down about 3 to 4 aisles down around the regular DVD player and DVD/VCR combo sections. Softwarewise, both stores I go to have the same amount of space allocated for BD and HD-DVD. In the newspaper adds, up until recently, I haven't seen much of a difference in advertising, other than there have been more models of BD hardware that have been promoted (because there are more brands out there) than HD-DVD hardware.

I've been to other BB's in Central Florida, and have noticed the same thing. I will admit, I own a PS3 and about 20 BD movies (NEVER have had a problem with playback in any way), but it seems like many here are implying that HD-DVD isn't getting a fair shake and the reality is, IT DOESN'T MATTER which is the better system of playback, it's about MARKETING, and Toshiba has done a really, really crappy job. They have no one to blame but themselves. They couldn't align any of the major Japanese manufactuers with themselves, and could only muster half of the major studios to support them early on. ON TOP OF THAT, they had a pretty big headstart over BD in both hardware and software, thanks to Sony's early on PS3 supply fiasco.
As for which is the superior system, they both are as capable as each other as far as picture quality and sound quality is concerned for the most part.
One more thing to remember. Sony created Beta. If anyone here is old enough to have expereinced Beta vs VHS, Beta was CLEARLY, as far as picture quality was concerned, a superior format. It was a VISIBLE difference, and Sony still lost that format war. Sony learned from JVC's victory on this one, and just applied it to beating Toshiba, who apparently has a very short memory of the past.
I guess that's my rant.

No, not a rant, but right on the money, I've said it many times before, it isn't a tech "war" as much as it is a PR/marketing war, and Toshiba failed miserably on all counts, they should have fired their marketing/pr firm two years ago.

[stratman]

The BB I go to has HD DVD and BD back to back, they both have the same lineal footage/shelving, the HD DVD side faces a wider aisle as you get near the DVD section where the new releases are, BD is opposite on the first aisle next to TV SHOWS dvd section, so you can say that HD DVD has better real estate. But where it counts (next to the TVs and prominent displays near the regular dvd players) BD is king.

[slim340]

As I stated, the scenario I spoke of is at my BB. My store happens to be top 10 in the company. Not saying the store in Orlando is not, but the fact of the matter is the company is using my store and it's clout to end the war, whether fair or not. I find it ridiculous that retailers who back one over the other is saying the consumer does not deserve the right to chose for themselves. And as for saying your PS3's have never run into problems with BD, it is because it is the only BD machine that is constantly being updated with the newest "final profiles". One last thing to remember, there is a new profile that once used may render all BD machines unable to play the BD it was made for.

[westcott]

I could care less what BB says or does. I am FAR more upset with the NetFlix decision to stop providing HD DVD's. I never planned on buying either format. My goal was to rent what I wanted, when I wanted it for all the studio releases.

Well, that is no longer an option and to add insult to injury, my BR player refuses to play many of the BR titles. No such problems with my HD DVD player.

And for what? A marginal video performance difference that is more dependant on the quality of the video transfer than the technology used to display it.

Save your money!!!!

[croseiv]

I could care less what BB says or does. I am FAR more upset with the NetFlix decision to stop providing HD DVD's. I never planned on buying either format. My goal was to rent what I wanted, when I wanted it for all the studio releases.

Well, that is no longer an option and to add insult to injury, my BR player refuses to play many of the BR titles. No such problems with my HD DVD player.

And for what? A marginal video performance difference that is more dependant on the quality of the video transfer than the technology used to display it.

Save your money!!!!

Yeah. I don't understand why they would be phasing out HD DVD altogether. I was about to get an HD-DVD player just so I could rent titles from Netflix. Seems like a bad business decison sort of. The HD-DVD format was appealing to me since the prices are cheaper. I guess it's still too early yet. SD-DVD still looks good to me...

[Johnd]

Yeah. I don't understand why they would be phasing out HD DVD altogether. I was about to get an HD-DVD player just so I could rent titles from Netflix. Seems like a bad business decison sort of. The HD-DVD format was appealing to me since the prices are cheaper. I guess it's still too early yet. SD-DVD still looks good to me...

Well...it's not over til it's over croseiv. Toshiba is not the only manufacturer of HD players, and import HD movies, some of which are stellar over US versions, are compatible on all HD players because they do not have that region coding nightmare that BD has. Additionally, soem BD fanboys will have you believe we can't watch "their" movies. Untrue. Some "exclusively BD" movies can be had in HD European or Japanese versions. :D

[Buckeye_Nut]

When you work for the HD DVD Promotions Group you look forward to Friday. So far this week - Netflix announced it’s dropping HD DVD and Best Buy, the country’s largest consumer electronics retailer, announced its endorsement for Blu-ray. What does Best Buy think it is – Ted Kennedy?
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/hd-dvd-netflix-best-buy/image_thumb

Discuss "HD DVD Should Re-think PR After Beatings From Netflix and Best Buy" here. Read the article (http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/hd-dvd-netflix-best-buy).

LOL........very funny!

[Buckeye_Nut]

To me it read a little like Rush Limbaugh touting Conservatism... Best Buy has ALWAYS pushed Blu-ray. For them to make this statement is clarifying what was obvious to the rest of us from the start.
Nicely put....

Circuit city is also pushing BD pretty darned hard even though they haven't officially declared it in a press release.