paradigm studio 60's...is millenia 20 good cc match?

[dan001]

I currently own paradigm studio 60's...and recently purchased the millenia 20 as a cc..on the advice of the dealer...granted..the cc is new..maybe 2 hours of break in..but...i am not impressed at all with the cc so far...is this a good match for the studio 60's?

[mazersteven]

Not a good match. These are the matching center channels

http://www.paradigm.com/en/reference/centers-studio-series-2-3-13.paradigm

[ParadigmDawg]

Steven is correct here. You have to go with a 590 or 690. The millenia is not even close to the same ballpark.

[Thaedium]

As Mazer and Greg pointed out, thats a horrible match. The millenia series is in a much different category from the Studio's, and as such will not perform to the same standards.

I'm really disappointed in your dealer really, it just goes to show he was more interested in making the sale then making a happy customer.

If you still can, take it back and be done with it. If you can afford the CC-690 I would recommend it, the 590 is also great. If you can't afford it right now, save for it. A poor CC is worse then no CC at all, and can really affect your movie/tv experience.

[mazersteven]

I'm really disappointed in your dealer really, it just goes to show he was more interested in making the sale then making a happy customer.

If you still can, take it back and be done with it. If you can afford the CC-690 I would recommend it, the 590 is also great. If you can't afford it right now, save for it. A poor CC is worse then no CC at all, and can really affect your movie/tv experience.

I have to agree with Thaedium on both statements.

The sales dude is a meatball. Only wish I was the one he was trying to sell to. http://av123forum.com/images/smilies/new_2gunsfiring_v1.gif

[BabelFish]

+1 as everyone else.. not a good match.. 590 or 690...

[dan001]

thanx for the thoughts guys..i am aware of 590 and 690 solution.....problem is..space..these are too big for where i need them..thats the rub....u think like the cc190's??.....the millenia fit the space like the proverbial glove...i lowered the output level on them last night..sounded waaaaay better..tho i am certainly not downplaying your thoughts...am i still losing out here?..also..the dealer is a good guy..he is the store owner and i have dealt with him many times..and of course..he knew of the space confines..i can return and exchange no problem..soo..smaller cc190's..or...290's?

[Highbar]

I know it's not going to be as small as the Millenia but maybe a Studio 20? It's the same series so it should match the 60's well and it smaller then both 590 and 690.

[mazersteven]

I know it's not going to be as small as the Millenia but maybe a Studio 20? It's the same series so it should match the 60's well and it smaller then both 590 and 690.

Excellent recommendation. If placement isn't an issue then a Studio 20 would be an excellent alternative to the 590, or 690. :D

[Thaedium]

The space issue is a good point, and I had not even thought of it until you brought it up. I too had the same problem, the simple fact is the CC-690 is monsterous. It looks like a Studio 60 turned on its side.

At first I didn't plug it in, but finally I figured I'd set the tv on top of it with a thin textured mat to seperate the two. Best solution I could come up with without buying a plasma/lcd TV to mount on the wall.

I don't know your circumstances however, but I would agree with Highbar and Mazer on this for sure, go with a single Studio 20 if you can, it will match performance-wise the Studio 60's, and it is smalled then CC-590/690 option. Its just a little more akward to place I think thats all.

I doubt the CC-190/290/390 will match well with the Studio's either. Different components and build quality all around.

What type of system are you running currently? Are you more interested in the HT setup then Stereo? What are the limitations you have in this room thats creating problems?

If you still don't have surrounds right now, and have no intention of buying them then I would forgo the centre channel completely, especially if you have room constraints.

If however you are planning on running a full 5.1, or 7.1 setup, and its just the room cramping your style then I'd look for ways to make the space. Sacrificing a matching centre channel in a surround sound HT setup based on room constraints is what I see as the least desirable situation. A poorly matched centre will have you going batty because you will always be picking up audible artifacts that don't belong or match.

[jcPanny]

Paradigm has some high end in-wall speakers that are matched to the studio line. Might be a good option for your center channel. Running the studio 60's with a phantom center would probably perform better than a low end center channel.

[dan001]

more useful info guys thanx...curently i have the studio 60's with a pdr 8 sub with a yamaha rxv3800 and some smallish harmon kardon backs..i am more into stereo actually..but..i must confess..since getting the 3800..listening to music in surround mode is great..volume fairly low...just puttering around in house..so..hence the need for a better center channel..i had a pioneer center b4 now..and again...since i was using surround for movies..all worked fairly well....also just purchased pioneer plasma..and..ps3...for my son of course..lol....so..thought it would be good to update some of my stuff as sound is great with ps3 and vision on plasma is great..but..my living room is kinda small and stylish...so..the dilemna remains...went and sampled the 590 today..man..very nice...but damn big!!..i took home the cc190 for now..returned the mill 20..and right out of the box..the 190 meshed waaaay better than the mill 20...but..i will see how she goes for a few days..phantom is a good point..i talked to the guy about the studio 20..he said he didnt think that was a good idea...i have the tv mounted on a stand already..hence the space dilmna..it need to go under the tv..but man they are big..but man that 590 sounded sweet...but hey..lol..this 190 is sounding good too..damn..choices..choices

[ParadigmDawg]

I was in the same boat and we looked high and low for a credenza that would hold the 590. We finally found it at Rack&Stands, the center section is 33 widex15 high and worked out perfectly for me.

Edit. The studio 20 uses the same driver so it would make a good center. Tell your dealer he was wrong.

[TC-san]

I called the Paradigm factory recently trying to get ready for a purchase of a new system and had similar questions. The guy at the factory said he really discourages this setup. Millenias go with Millenias, period.

My issue is similar to yours where the form will fit well for the new flat panel, but will sound poorly when matched with other Reference or Studio speakers. I just noticed that Paradim is going to release a W5, a wall mounted Signature series CC for $3000. Steep.

I love my current Paradigms, but want an upgrade. I don't think the Studios will cut it for me, based on the cc size. The only option is the S2 / C1, but gawd, it's close to $10,000 for the correct setup......

[Thaedium]

I was in the same boat and we looked high and low for a credenza that would hold the 590. We finally found it at Rack&Stands, the center section is 33 widex15 high and worked out perfectly for me.

Edit. The studio 20 uses the same driver so it would make a good center. Tell your dealer he was wrong.

Yah I agree with you Greg, but I think his dealer was saying it would not be a good idea based on the fact that a Studio 20 is a bookshelf speaker, making it very awkward to place especially when you have the TV on the stand already. At least with the CC-190 through to 690 they are designed to be on their sides, allowing for easier intergration into the HT. Unless you are using a projector, or a wall mounted TV then using a bookshelf for the centre just is not as feasible I don't think.

[dan001]

well..ran the 190 through some stuff last night, some music, Gladiator...definately better than the mill20..hands down..and fits and sounds nice..but..what keeps ringing in my ear..the sound of that 590 they had playing at the stereo store...man...they had the 5th element playing...incredible...i may move my tv up a few notches on the stand to make room for a 590..thogh..thjat may lift the tv a bit too much...dont know.....tell me you 590 owners....is it a huge improvement over the 190 in terms of clarity and sound??..and worth an xtra 700 bux!?

[mazersteven]

but..what keeps ringing in my ear..the sound of that 590 they had playing at the stereo store...man...they had the 5th element playing...incredible...i may move my tv up a few notches on the stand to make room for a 590..

Now your talking like a true Audioholic. http://av123forum.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

[ParadigmDawg]

It is a very good speaker and it belongs with the system you have. Do not let space limitations dictate the correct center. Mine is in a 8,000 cubic foot open room and is as clear and powerful as anything I have heard. I am running mine off of a dedicated 200w amp.well..ran the 190 through some stuff last night, some music, Gladiator...definately better than the mill20..hands down..and fits and sounds nice..but..what keeps ringing in my ear..the sound of that 590 they had playing at the stereo store...man...they had the 5th element playing...incredible...i may move my tv up a few notches on the stand to make room for a 590..thogh..thjat may lift the tv a bit too much...dont know.....tell me you 590 owners....is it a huge improvement over the 190 in terms of clarity and sound??..and worth an xtra 700 bux!?

[dan001]

lol Mazer...thanx guys...i really appct all your input..dealer has 590 for 999.00 Canadian..good price?

[Thaedium]

Well not horrible. See if you can get him to tweak the price for you, after all you've been through quite the ordeal to finally settle on a centre channel that works for you. 20% doesn't sound unreasonable :P

[ParadigmDawg]

Agreed, you bought the other gear from there correct? If they take 100 bucks off, it's a buy.

[dan001]

ya..100 bux is a given..i was just wondering if his starting price was good at 999.00

[ParadigmDawg]

My Texas dealer wanted 900. I got it for 600 but that's a long story and involved someone going to the ER.

[HangtownMatt]

First post. I actually joined because of this thread. I'm in the same boat as Dan and my Paradigm dealer also recommended the Millenia 20 as a center channel for Studio 20 V3 fronts. He also recommend the Martin Logan Dynamo sub, and Paradigms literature specifically states Millenia's are designed to be used with a subwoofer. Would this make "THE" difference?
I'm very disappointed to hear this combination won't work.

Matt

[Johnd]

First post. I actually joined because of this thread. I'm in the same boat as Dan and my Paradigm dealer also recommended the Millenia 20 as a center channel for Studio 20 V3 fronts. He also recommend the Martin Logan Dynamo sub, and Paradigms literature specifically states Millenia's are designed to be used with a subwoofer. Would this make "THE" difference?
I'm very disappointed to hear this combination won't work.

Matt

Hey Matt. Welcome to the forum.

Well, the reason that the Millenia center won't work is because it is an entirely different cabinet design than the Studios...and different speakers I believe. As such, their timbre will be different than Studios.

If what you mean by "THE" difference is adequate bass, yes. A good sub will give you that. If what you mean by "THE" difference is will a millenia center work with Studio mains, then no, it won't work because of timbre differences. Hope that helps. :)

[BabelFish]

My Texas dealer wanted 900. I got it for 600 but that's a long story and involved someone going to the ER.

lol.. I'm interested in that story :)

[dan001]

yes Matt..I have a sub as well....still did not like the sound of the mill 20...not a good match..far too thin a sound compared to the richness of the system over all. I actually spoke to my dealer today...he told me the millenia series is a very..'inefficient' speaker sytem..i delved no further since i returned mine anyway...the cc 190 is holding its own, but still not out of the ordinary, just kinda tags along.., a bit hollow in my opinion...the guys here have been carefully nudging me towards the 590 or 690..lol...we'll see.

[mazersteven]

Martin Logan Dynamo sub

Matt,

Just for your information. That is a good subwoofer. If your in a small to small/medium room you will get good performance from the Dynamo.

There are a few subs in the $599 range that give excellent performance.

[HangtownMatt]

I sure appreciate the advice. That could have been an expensive mistake.

Thanks,

Matt

[Highbar]

Dan, still looking at the 590 and 690 are you? You might as well go get the 590. Yeah I'm saying the smaller of the two but it'll fit a little easier and you wont regret it. See if your dealer will let you home demo one to see how it sounds. If you love it go for it.

T

[dan001]

yes, like i say..i heard the 590 at the shop and the depth of it was incredible. The 690 is way too big for my home setup, and the 590 is too big as well, but damn, im just gonna have to make room if i decide to go for it!!..maybe just a little more nudging from you guys eh!!..lol....what i see i should have mentioned and was remiss, is that my studio 60's are about 8 years old...making them an early version...will this imapct the meshing of a new cc??..the 590 per se'?..thats why i went with the 190..thinking they may have same technology by this point. Your input here would be appcted.

[Thaedium]

Yes, unfortunately it will make a difference. Paradigm went through a major overhaul of the studio series last year. They took a few things from the Signature line and added it to the Studio line. The difference between the Studio v.4's and the Studio v.3's is fairly significant.

Thats not to say adding the CC-590 wont mesh, In fact, I think it would mesh well regardless. The matching centre from 8 years ago would not hold a candle to the CC-590, so I wouldn't worry.

[Highbar]

Paradigm does move technology down through their series' as they come up with new stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if your 190 has the same tech as your older 60's. That's not to say that the 590 wouldn't mesh well, it will probably mesh very well.

You could always look around online and see if you can find a matching center that's the same version as your 60's if you don't like the sound. For what it's worth, I would stick with either the 190 or the new 590.

T

[dan001]

well guys, as luck..or karma??..would have it..i found a guy selling a brand new in the box 590..insurance claim, purchased it for 600...a steal..as the store one would have been at least 900 plus tax..so..saved myself 500 bux on what i am hoping is a solid piece to the puzzle..should be here in a week...i will definately let u guys know how it sounds...

[Johnd]

Good buy danoo1. I have the 570 with my studios and I love it. I don't think you'll be unimpressed as the 590 had a couple of minor improvements over the 570. Enjoy!

[Highbar]

Doesn't get any better then that. Some how things always seem to work out in the end, just takes longer sometimes.

We need pics and your opinion when it gets there.

T

[dan001]

will do guys..thanx for the support..now...hmmmmmm..new rears??..lol...like friggin heroin eh

[mazersteven]

How about starting your own thread here with pictures? :D

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

[dan001]

well guys, 590 arrived, hooked it up..and wow..the sytem had life again...sounds fantastic and meshes very well, thanx for all your input.



as a sidebar...in the stereo store today, they had totem forests playing....in a word...WOW

[zoran]

I own a studio series 7.1 set up. with 60s, adp and cc450s, and sa 360s.

to match with my flat panel, I was thinking replacing studio 60s only with millena 20s so i can hang them on wall. or should I replace all front 3 including CC 450 too?

please refer me to a good dealer for advise.
thnx

[ParadigmDawg]

You have got to be kidding...

I own a studio series 7.1 set up. with 60s, adp and cc450s, and sa 360s.

to match with my flat panel, I was thinking replacing studio 60s only with millena 20s so i can hang them on wall. or should I replace all front 3 including CC 450 too?

please refer me to a good dealer for advise.
thnx

[Highbar]

I own a studio series 7.1 set up. with 60s, adp and cc450s, and sa 360s.

to match with my flat panel, I was thinking replacing studio 60s only with millena 20s so i can hang them on wall. or should I replace all front 3 including CC 450 too?

please refer me to a good dealer for advise.
thnx

That's one giant step in the wrong direction. The Millenia's will mount on the wall and match the tv, but they are not going to sound like the 60's. Wouldn't suggest it at all.

T

[mojo5654]

That dealer doesn't know what he's talking about. He gave you a cinema series center to go with a reference studio. No match at all.
You need the cc590 or the cc690 to go with studio 60's or 100's.

[tn001d]

thanx for the thoughts guys..i am aware of 590 and 690 solution.....problem is..space..these are too big for where i need them..thats the rub....u think like the cc190's??.....the millenia fit the space like the proverbial glove...i lowered the output level on them last night..sounded waaaaay better..tho i am certainly not downplaying your thoughts...am i still losing out here?..also..the dealer is a good guy..he is the store owner and i have dealt with him many times..and of course..he knew of the space confines..i can return and exchange no problem..soo..smaller cc190's..or...290's?

Did you try a Studio CC-470... would be a much closer match and slightly smaller cabinet.