Best Bookshelfs for Under $300

[Big_I]

I am on a lowly student budget but I still splurge now and then. So I'm looking to pair my old Marantz 2230 with some halfway-decent bookshelf speakers for under $300. I know this is a home theater oriented forum but I really just listen to music.

These will need to go in my office which is a very small room (7'x11'). I don't want to mess with a sub (my receiver is so oldschool I'm not even sure that would work), so hopefully they could have some decent bass output.

Any input on this one?

[mazersteven]

Wow is that old. Nice

http://www.jmargolin.com/marantz/mfront.jpg

http://www.jmargolin.com/marantz/mback.jpg

http://www.jmargolin.com/marantz/mcover1.jpg

[j_garcia]

I'd take a look at the Onix X-LS Encore. Right at your $300 price point, but they should be plenty. I reviewed the original X-LS here and they have pretty good bass for a bookshelf.

http://www.av123.com/products_category_brand.php?section=speakers&brand=55

That guy looks like my Pioneer :)
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l181/jgarcia14/HT/IMG_2117.jpg

[gene]

So I'm looking to pair my old Marantz 2230 with some halfway-decent bookshelf speakers for under $300.

In that price range, the Axiom M3s or the Infinity Beta 20s would likely be your best bets.

[mazersteven]

j_garcia made a nice recommendation

Also look at

Ascend Acoustics
CBM-170 SE
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html

[Davemcc]

Then there's the Aperion 632. 30 day in-home trial and free shipping both ways if you don't like it. There's nothing to lose there.
http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/Intimus-632-LR-Bookshelf-Speaker,17,20,31.aspx

[j_garcia]

The CBM170SEs are a great choice also, though their bass is not quite as pronounced. They are very accurate and clean.

Accessories For Less has a Mordaunt Short sale going on now. The 902i are $350 with an additional 10% off: http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/MORDAV902ICLV Mordaunt Short is a sister company to Marantz. These are what I used to use (902) with my PM7200 and they are a solid performer.

AV123 has the no cost to you 30 day trial as well.


Epos ELS-3 would be worth a look as well, though they are 4 Ohm speakers. The Marantz should be able to handle them, but it is something to consider:

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=522 $296 Shipped.

[John Bailey]

Last I looked Saturday Audio had PSB B25's for $299 and Monitor Audio B2's for $279.

John

[Joe Schmoe]

Mirage Omni 150s are still available a Ultimate for $280/pr. They are absolutely stunning. In spite of being small for bookshelves, their bass output easily rivals that of my floorstanding Polk Monitor 50s. The omnipolar design provides a huge soundstage that will make your room seem much larger. To my ears, they could easily be worth $3000. Too bad you missed the half price sale.

[3db]

I concur whole heartedly with Joe Bailey's recommendations. They are proably the best ones out of the ones recommended so far

[mazersteven]

They are proably the best ones out of the ones recommended so far

In who's opinion? :eek: :confused:

http://www.sincuser.f9.co.uk/035/opinion.jpg

[avaserfi]

Ascend Acoustics
CBM-170 SE
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html

This is the most linear speaker I have seen posted. With a quality, well integrated, sub you will most likely have a very realistic reproduction of music given the price point. It also has high quality drivers and crossovers :).

[Big_I]

Info overload!!! :D

So many of these speakers look great but I have to say that the Onix x-ls and the CBM-170 SE really catch my eye.

Thinking out loud here:
---If the Onix x-ls's sacrifice some linearity and gain some bass over the CBM-170, that might be an acceptable tradeoff for me (since I won't buy a sub).
---The x-ls's have paper cones... is that an issue?
---Some of these suggestions are sale priced speakers... that could translate to better quality (or not). Do these more expensive speakers (MS Avant 902i, PSB B25, MA B2) outperform the x-ls or cbm-170?

[Seth=L]

The X-LS have paper cones?:confused:

[mazersteven]

Just because a speaker cost more does not in any way mean it sounds better.

And there is no issue with paper speakers.

[Big_I]

The X-LS have paper cones?:confused:

From av123.com: "Peerless India 6.5" curvilinear shaped treated paper cone woofer""tweeter is a Peerless India 1" treated fabric dome"

[mazersteven]

The X-LS have paper cones?:confused:


Peerless India 6.5" curvilinear shaped treated paper cone woofer with polymer chassis

[Sheep]

The X-LS have paper cones?:confused:

# Drivers: 1" Peerless India fabric dome and custom Peerless India 6.5" curvilinear shaped treated paper cone woofer with polymer chassis

You know with about 4 seconds of effort you could have answered that question.

SheepStar

[mazersteven]

You know with about 4 seconds of effort you could have answered that question.

SheepStar

And if he did that you wouldn't have been able to throw out a wise crack, and add to your post count. :eek:

[Big_I]

Just because a speaker cost more does not in any way mean it sounds better. And there is no issue with paper speakers.
1. I agree
2. I have alot to learn but just thought I'd throw that out there. I've been rockin paper cones my whole life.

I'd love to hear more about the tradeoff between the x-ls encore and the CBM-170 SE from people who have listened to both.

[mazersteven]

Trade-Off

The x-ls encore's are better looking then the CBM-170 SE's. :eek:

[Sheep]

And if he did that you wouldn't have been able to throw out a wise crack, and add to your post count. :eek:

So his post doesn't boost count, but mine do.

I would look into the Ascends. Once you get them you will want a subwoofer. No one buys something, and then is content with it, or their situation.

SheepStar

[Soundman]

I am on a lowly student budget but I still splurge now and then. So I'm looking to pair my old Marantz 2230 with some halfway-decent bookshelf speakers for under $300. I know this is a home theater oriented forum but I really just listen to music.

These will need to go in my office which is a very small room (7'x11'). I don't want to mess with a sub (my receiver is so oldschool I'm not even sure that would work), so hopefully they could have some decent bass output.

Any input on this one?

hey Big I,
It sounds like your embarrased of your old Marantz. Don't be. Just b/c it's old doesn't mean it doesn't do a good job. Some people actually like the look of some older gear better. Also, the fact that it is old says something about its quality.
As for the speakers, there's been a lot of good suggestions. Personally, I'd go for the AV123's or the Ascends, but that's just me. :)

[Soundman]

Wow is that old. Nice

http://www.jmargolin.com/marantz/mfront.jpg

http://www.jmargolin.com/marantz/mback.jpg

http://www.jmargolin.com/marantz/mcover1.jpg

BTW, as usual love the pics, Mazer! :)

[Big_I]

hey Big I,
It sounds like your embarrased of your old Marantz. Don't be. Just b/c it's old doesn't mean it doesn't do a good job. Some people actually like the look of some older gear better. Also, the fact that it is old says something about its quality.
As for the speakers, there's been a lot of good suggestions. Personally, I'd go for the AV123's or the Ascends, but that's just me. :)

Don't get me wrong, I love my Marantz. It has great power (has been hooked to turntables/mixer/mic for several loud parties) and the look is awesome! Nothing beats the smooth metal knob-feel. One day my old man will give me his McIntosh and then I'll REALLY be oldschool pimpin.

Really diggin the look of the AV123s. Might go for it.

[Soundman]

Don't get me wrong, I love my Marantz. It has great power (has been hooked to turntables/mixer/mic for several loud parties) and the look is awesome! Nothing beats the smooth metal knob-feel. One day my old man will give me his McIntosh and then I'll REALLY be oldschool pimpin.

Really diggin the look of the AV123s. Might go for it.

Yeah the AV123's are nice for that price. As for the Marantz, I'm glad you like it. I really like the look of it too! So, when's your next party? :confused::D If you do get your old man's ,McIntosh, I'd love to see that thing! pics please. :D

[j_garcia]

From av123.com: "Peerless India 6.5" curvilinear shaped treated paper cone woofer""tweeter is a Peerless India 1" treated fabric dome"

Paper is actually the most neutral material for midrange drivers and trust me, these drivers do sound good. The speakers I own also use similar custom drivers (also designed by one of the guys behind the X series).

[Big_I]

I see on their website that the speakers aren't available yet. So no impulse buying!

[j_garcia]

Yeah, they are transitioning from the former original X-LS to the Encores.

[avaserfi]

Paper drivers are perfectly fine for use in a speaker.

Paper is actually the most neutral material for midrange drivers and trust me, these drivers do sound good. The speakers I own also use similar custom drivers (also designed by one of the guys behind the X series).

As far as a paper driver being the most neutral that is extreme over generalization. The cone material is just a single part of the entire system that comprises a driver. In the end if the rest of the driver is properly designed with respect of the material the material itself won't matter. This means that any material is capable of being neutral. I have seen measurements on speakers made from ceramic, paper, metal, Kevlar and other materials that are all perfectly neutral in terms of perception and/or measurement.

When it comes to neutrality I will repeat the most neutral speaker at the price point you are looking is the CBM-170SE. Please note the X-ls encore has not been released and thus credible measurements have not been made as far as I know.

[gus6464]

Devil's advocate time so I recommend the Epos ELS-3 as well. Mostly for my dislike of AV123 and Ascend and the way they do business.

[j_garcia]

As far as a paper driver being the most neutral that is extreme over generalization. The cone material is just a single part of the entire system that comprises a driver. In the end if the rest of the driver is properly designed with respect of the material the material itself won't matter. This means that any material is capable of being neutral. I have seen measurements on speakers made from ceramic, paper, metal, Kevlar and other materials that are all perfectly neutral in terms of perception and/or measurement.

When it comes to neutrality I will repeat the most neutral speaker at the price point you are looking is the CBM-170SE. Please note the X-ls encore has not been released and thus credible measurements have not been made as far as I know.

That was not meant to say that paper is THE most neutral specifically; I should have said is one of the most neutral sound wise. It is one thing to have flat response but is another to actually reproduce the sound without imparting coloration. I have owned speakers with a variety of materials of drivers and each tends to have a distinct sound, though what actually sounds good also depends greatly on the total speaker's design. In terms of what a driver does, clearly there are a lot of other factors in the driver's design that affect how it sounds ultimately, but material definitely has an influence in my experience. The crossover can have an influence as well; a poorly designed one can greatly affect how a given speaker sounds even with good drivers.

Check the AV123 forums as well, there may be some deals available in their classifieds.

[mike c]

Monitor Audio BR2
KEF Q1 or iQ1 or iQ3

[mazersteven]

Mostly for my dislike of AV123 and Ascend and the way they do business.

I'll bite. What displeases you in how they do business? Last thing I remember, you've never ordered speakers from either company.

[Guangui]

Monitor Audio BR2
KEF Q1 or iQ1 or iQ3

Those are under $300.00 only on sale. If we go by that, you need to add PSB B25.

If you go by regular sales price I would have to say PSB Alpha B1, Stereophile's 2007 choice for this category.

[gus6464]

I'll bite. What displeases you in how they do business? Last thing I remember, you've never ordered speakers from either company.

I dislike the way they flood a lot of the forums with their somewhat viral marketing. Now mind you one thing is for you to actually make a good speaker when compared to others and that is fine by me. But if you do why do you need to go around saying that just because you are ID you offer better stuff than the rest. I first saw this with av123 when I first joined these forums and it's very rampant with Ascend on avs. While av123 has somewhat died down about this, it's mostly because their gear is always out of stock and most people want their stuff right now. Now curtis and ascend at avs is just a whole other fiasco. Which is funny because there was a big deal with AVS and SVS about this same exact thing and they pretty much shut it down but with ascend it still continues. While I am not as anti-av123 as I used to be at first, the whole thing still left a very sour taste in my mouth.

[mazersteven]

I dislike the way they flood a lot of the forums with their somewhat viral marketing. Now mind you one thing is for you to actually make a good speaker when compared to others and that is fine by me. But if you do why do you need to go around saying that just because you are ID you offer better stuff than the rest. I first saw this with av123 when I first joined these forums and it's very rampant with Ascend on avs. While av123 has somewhat died down about this, it's mostly because their gear is always out of stock and most people want their stuff right now. Now curtis and ascend at avs is just a whole other fiasco. Which is funny because there was a big deal with AVS and SVS about this same exact thing and they pretty much shut it down but with ascend it still continues. While I am not as anti-av123 as I used to be at first, the whole thing still left a very sour taste in my mouth.

I have been around these forums now for a couple of years. And I have seen just about every ID manufacturer on the forums promoting their product. I've also seen them promote other products too.

[mike c]

Those are under $300.00 only on sale. If we go by that, you need to add PSB B25.

If you go by regular sales price I would have to say PSB Alpha B1, Stereophile's 2007 choice for this category.

the BR2 is really less than 300 bucks. you need to haggle with your B&M store guy.

the Q1 is discontinued which is also why I got it for around 300 bucks as well.

the iQ1 is 5.25" driver version (smaller) therefore cheaper, but I did not check current prices because they're no longer sold in manila.

[billy p]

I have been around these forums now for a couple of years. And I have seen just about every ID manufacturer on the forums promoting their product. I've also seen them promote other products too.

Mazer just try and knock one of the ID's and see what happens. There's certain ID owners that will have you skewered in no time. Even now it still makes my head spin.:(

[mazersteven]

Mazer just try and knock one of the ID's and see what happens. There's certain ID owners that will have you skewered in no time. Even now it makes my head spin.:(

Me Skewered?

Never Happen ;)

[Tomorrow]

These Boston Acoustics are pretty nice and at close-out 1/2 price...$300/pair! The ad says 1 per customer...so I guess you either talk them into selling you two, or get a friend to order one, as well. (I can't imagine them trying to sell ONE speaker to a customer. :confused:)

Anyway...good price...decent loudspeaker.

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=20794

EDIT: OOPS...PARDON...You are looking for bookshelf speakers. My bad. Just ignore this post.

[j_garcia]

Are you talking about Fanboys? Yeah, AVS is all about that...which is one of the reasons why I detest that forum.

SVS is actually really good about recommending products even if they are from another manufacturer, so bad taste or no, the products are still excellent and I have tried many of the various ID companies' products.

[Seth=L]

These Boston Acoustics are pretty nice and at close-out 1/2 price...$300/pair! The ad says 1 per customer...so I guess you either talk them into selling you two, or get a friend to order one, as well. (I can't imagine them trying to sell ONE speaker to a customer. :confused:)

Anyway...good price...decent loudspeaker.

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=20794

EDIT: OOPS...PARDON...You are looking for bookshelf speakers. My bad. Just ignore this post.
AVAILABILITY:
In Stock - Limit 1 per Customer

They are sold each, WTF?:confused: That actually makes me angry.:mad:

[mike c]

there are three kinds of people on AVS ...

noobies. fanboys. trolls.

:)

[Soundman]

I dislike the way they flood a lot of the forums with their somewhat viral marketing. Now mind you one thing is for you to actually make a good speaker when compared to others and that is fine by me. But if you do why do you need to go around saying that just because you are ID you offer better stuff than the rest. I first saw this with av123 when I first joined these forums and it's very rampant with Ascend on avs. While av123 has somewhat died down about this, it's mostly because their gear is always out of stock and most people want their stuff right now. Now curtis and ascend at avs is just a whole other fiasco. Which is funny because there was a big deal with AVS and SVS about this same exact thing and they pretty much shut it down but with ascend it still continues. While I am not as anti-av123 as I used to be at first, the whole thing still left a very sour taste in my mouth.

There's a reason AV123's products are always sold out! :D

[Haoleb]

In that price range, the Axiom M3s or the Infinity Beta 20s would likely be your best bets.

Agreed on the axioms. I finally sat down to give my M3's a proper listen a couple days ago and really dont think you can go wrong with them. I wrote a review of them thats in the "write your own review" area.

[Big_I]

I may end up going with the PSB B25s since the x-ls encore could be awhile. They look pretty decent and are supposed to have good bass.

Do you think the Marantz can push these???

My reviever has:
RMS Power Per Channel: 30 (continuous)(8 ohm)
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) 0.5%
Power Bandwidth 30 Hz to 20 kHz
Intermodulation Distortion (IM) 0.5%

The PSB spec is:
Impedence Nominal 6 Ohms
Minimum 4 Ohms
Input Power
RMS, Clipping < 10% of the Time
Recommended 10-100 Watts
Program 70 Watts

[mazersteven]

IMO I would stay with an 8ohm speaker with that old Marantz.

[Big_I]

IMO I would stay with an 8ohm speaker with that old Marantz.

Damnnnnn... I thought I had that wrapped up.

[Big_I]

The concern would be that the marantz would overheat and clip, correct? It doesn't really run hot as it is with 8 ohmers, so it doesn't seem like a 6 ohm speaker would be too much of a stretch, would it? Am I missing something?

[gus6464]

I really don't think that Marantz will have any trouble powering 4ohm speakers.

[Big_I]

I really don't think that Marantz will have any trouble powering 4ohm speakers.
They are actually 6ohm (nominal) 4ohm (min).
Thanks for the encouragment. After scanning other threads it seems like most people say "go for it" in my situation.

[mazersteven]

They are actually 6ohm (nominal) 4ohm (min).
Thanks for the encouragment. After scanning other threads it seems like most people say "go for it" in my situation.

As long as your listening at low to moderate levels.

What's the worst that could happen? You make a classic receiver catch fire? No big deal. :eek:

I really have no clue. I'm learning myself.

[gus6464]

Especially since the old school receivers from back in the day were built like tanks.

http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/507psb/index4.html

According to their measurements the lowest they drop is to 3.7 ohms.

http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/104epos/index4.html

That is also the measurements for the Epos and as you can see even though they are rated @ 4ohms they really stay at over 6ohms most of the time and drop to a minimum of 4.9ohms which actually make them easier to drive than the PSB. But as long as you don't blast the crap out of the PSB's your Marantz should handle it just fine.

[Sheep]

That was not meant to say that paper is THE most neutral specifically; I should have said is one of the most neutral sound wise. It is one thing to have flat response but is another to actually reproduce the sound without imparting coloration. I have owned speakers with a variety of materials of drivers and each tends to have a distinct sound, though what actually sounds good also depends greatly on the total speaker's design. In terms of what a driver does, clearly there are a lot of other factors in the driver's design that affect how it sounds ultimately, but material definitely has an influence in my experience. The crossover can have an influence as well; a poorly designed one can greatly affect how a given speaker sounds even with good drivers.

Check the AV123 forums as well, there may be some deals available in their classifieds.

You both need to read up on Fletcher Munson. ;)

SheepStar

[WmAx]

Paper is actually the most neutral material for midrange drivers and trust me, these drivers do sound good. The speakers I own also use similar custom drivers (also designed by one of the guys behind the X series).

Most neutral by what parameter? Most paper(including high end) mid band drivers have substantial resonances in their passbands. Not all, but most. I can more easily pick a metal mid band driver (as an example) and get nuetral performance, as an example.

-Chris

[WmAx]

That was not meant to say that paper is THE most neutral specifically; I should have said is one of the most neutral sound wise. It is one thing to have flat response but is another to actually reproduce the sound without imparting coloration.

How is listening to different speaker systems with different materials going to give you an accurate indicator of any type of general performance of such a narrow parameter? There are too many variables present in such comparisons for one to make such an assumption based on these conditions. For example, you could take a perfectly transparent driver 'X' and place it in a cabinet with specific resonance behaviour, and the driver's transparency would be lost. This would be a function of the cabinet. The same can be said of the crossover, if not designed optimally. Or the same can be said if a driver is used in a non optimal pass band, where it starts to become severely directional, causing off axis non linearities that contaminate the room ambiance sound vs. on axis direct sound. Or what about the driver motor? Perhaps one has very poor design, lending to very high distortion, and another does not, but one assumes the difference that is heard is due to some other factor(cone material?).
-Chris

[John Bailey]

I powered the PSB 2B (forerunner to the B25's) with a vintage NAD 3020 with 20 watts. It did beautiful job. If fact, if I wasn't so lazy and needed things like a remote, I'd still have that set-up.

If you liked the PSB B25's, I've read that the Monitor Audio 2B's are very similar - possibly a bit more detailed and, I believe they are 8 ohm.

John

[3db]

I may end up going with the PSB B25s since the x-ls encore could be awhile. They look pretty decent and are supposed to have good bass.

Do you think the Marantz can push these???

My reviever has:
RMS Power Per Channel: 30 (continuous)(8 ohm)
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) 0.5%
Power Bandwidth 30 Hz to 20 kHz
Intermodulation Distortion (IM) 0.5%

The PSB spec is:
Impedence Nominal 6 Ohms
Minimum 4 Ohms
Input Power
RMS, Clipping < 10% of the Time
Recommended 10-100 Watts
Program 70 Watts

I have a complete PSB setup at home. T45s towers mains, Image8C center and Image 1BS and I'm driving all of them with a Technics A/V receiver with no problems in access of 85db without the receiver ever tripping off its protection circuits. My receiver IHO is no where's near as stout as yours. The PSBs are very efficient and it doesn't take much power to make them sing loudly. You're good to go. Your receiver will easily handle them.

[Joe Schmoe]

Trade-Off

The x-ls encore's are better looking then the CBM-170 SE's. :eek:

The grilles on those were an afterthought, and they look like an afterthought. The old ones, without grilles, looked better (IMO, of course.)

[Big_I]

I purchased the PSB B-25s from Saturday Audio in Chicago for $324.00 shipped and insured. I chose them because of the bass output several reviewers noted that they have (hense their possible use as mains). I was very intrigued by the X-ls encore, but there is very little information on them since they aren't released yet. Maybe I will try them side-by-side when they come out?

Special thanks to John Bailey for posting that great deal!!!!!

[3db]

I purchased the PSB B-25s from Saturday Audio in Chicago for $324.00 shipped and insured. I chose them because of the bass output several reviewers noted that they have (hense their possible use as mains). I was very intrigued by the X-ls encore, but there is very little information on them since they aren't released yet. Maybe I will try them side-by-side when they come out?

Special thanks to John Bailey for posting that great deal!!!!!

Let us know what you think once you get them and you had a chance to listen to them.

[billy p]

Let us know what you think once you get them and you had a chance to listen to them.

I'll go out on the limb and state the obvious;). Another satisfied once he hooks them up and gives them a listen:D.

[Big_I]

Let us know what you think once you get them and you had a chance to listen to them.
Will do, but like Billy said, I'll be very happy. I'm switching from some cheezy particle board fishers from the early 90s (gotta love free speakers).

[thisonekidmongo]

My brother was in the market for a $200 pair of bookshelves last week, but I convinced him to pull the trigger on the $299 PSB B25s at Saturday Audio. Terrible return policy (store credit only, 15% restocking fee) but shipped fast -- ordered on Sunday, arrived Wednesday.

I didn't get a chance for any extensive listening with them yet, but the characterstic about them that I immediately noticed was how forward they sounded in terms of soundstage. I own Rockets, and my other brother owns XLS Classics, and with both of those the sound appears to be emanating right from the speaker. Playing music with the B25s, however, I felt like the singer was standing less than a foot in front of me. I'm not sure if I find that to be a positive, negative or neither yet (my brother likes it), but I was wondering, is this a known characteristic of the PSB Image series, or was it more likely the product of the particular combination of the B25s and his eight-year-old Yamaha receiver?

[mazersteven]

Sounds like you where standing in the sweet spot and just don't have your rig properly positioned or calibrated. With any good speaker the sound should disappear from the speaker, and not bring attention to it.

[j_garcia]

How is listening to different speaker systems with different materials going to give you an accurate indicator of any type of general performance of such a narrow parameter? There are too many variables present in such comparisons for one to make such an assumption based on these conditions. For example, you could take a perfectly transparent driver 'X' and place it in a cabinet with specific resonance behaviour, and the driver's transparency would be lost. This would be a function of the cabinet. The same can be said of the crossover, if not designed optimally. Or the same can be said if a driver is used in a non optimal pass band, where it starts to become severely directional, causing off axis non linearities that contaminate the room ambiance sound vs. on axis direct sound. Or what about the driver motor? Perhaps one has very poor design, lending to very high distortion, and another does not, but one assumes the difference that is heard is due to some other factor(cone material?).
-Chris

What I am saying is, yes, of the many, many speakers I have listened to, I have found that plastic cones tend to sound like plastic cones; metal ones typically impart a metalic or brighter sound to the midrange and paper often has a smooth clean sound. That is a generalization though, as it is obvious are many factors that influence a speaker's sound. Percentage wise though, more often than not, the speakers I've heard have not often surprised me by sounding completely different than expected based on the driver's materials (a few have...).

[Guangui]

Mongo,

I own PSB B25's and T45's. Didn't care for SA return policy 'cause I knew what I was getting, and they are more a b&m store, rather than an online only reseller.

Yes, being somewhat forward and totally disappearing are PSB characteristics, and ones that, like your brother, I enjoy. I would say that in the B25 forward is more noticeable than in the T45 (tower); on the other hand the T45's disappear much better than the B25's. I wouldn't go as far as saying that the artist is only a couple of feet away, but that depends on settings, room acoustics, and personal appreciation. Receiver/Amp also plays a part, a small one, but sometimes noticeable.

In my case I have a Marantz, and IMO it gives the B25's better soundstage and image characteristics than with other popular receivers (ie. Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon).

There is an excellent pro review somewhere about the Alpha B1's, also great for less than $300.00, actually more like $225.00/pr. Anyways, the reviewer talks about PSB's general sound characteristics they give all their speakers, and how they incorporate them in their Alpha B1. It is for the B1, but will give you a general idea for the B25 and other PSB. If I find it, I will post the link.

[Guangui]

Here is that link of the review:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/reviews/GS-Review-Alpha-B1

Want to thank Billy P for pointing me in the right direction.

[thisonekidmongo]

Thanks for the read. I was originally pushing my bro towards the Alpha series, actually, until I saw the B25 sale at the last minute. With the B25 only $20+shipping more than the cheapest I could find the Alphas, it seemed like a no-brainer. He wanted a full-sounding speaker that can really crank, so so far it seems like it was the right choice.

[John Bailey]

I had the PSB 2B's, which were the forerunner to the 25B's. I powered them with a NAD 320Bee. Sound was terrific, but I did find them to be too forward for my liking. I ended up towing them in so their line of site would cross about 2 feet in front of my listening position. That solved my problem, and they ended up being the best speakers I've had to date. (I'm kind of a lo/mid-fi fanatic.) I like to try different things and I changed the power to a Yamaha RX-596 stereo receiver. Very good, but not as good as the NAD.

Hope you enjoy them. Let us know how they work for you.

John

[Guangui]

Thanks for the read. I was originally pushing my bro towards the Alpha series, actually, until I saw the B25 sale at the last minute. With the B25 only $20+shipping more than the cheapest I could find the Alphas, it seemed like a no-brainer. He wanted a full-sounding speaker that can really crank, so so far it seems like it was the right choice.

I agree...It was a no brainer, but not everyone likes maple color, and besides when that color is finished the PSB Image special from Sat Audio is over.

[Sheep]

I agree...It was a no brainer, but not everyone likes maple color, and besides when that color is finished the PSB Image special from Sat Audio is over.

Is that some sort of knock against us Canadians, because I will E-kick your ***.

SheepStar

[mazersteven]

Is that some sort of knock against us Canadians, because I will E-kick your ***.

SheepStar

I'm your Huckleberry. http://av123forum.com/images/smilies/emot-clint.gif

http://www.geocities.com/godsstash/movies/tombstone/tombstone17.jpg

[oldgringo]

I concur whole heartedly with Joe Bailey's recommendations. They are proably the best ones out of the ones recommended so far

1. Sorry to be picky - we have "John" Bailey and "Joe" Schmoe. I assumed you meant "John" - is that right?

2. My real question: As a newb, may I ask if Paradigm shows up on anybodies radar?

[Davemcc]

2. My real question: As a newb, may I ask if Paradigm shows up on anybodies radar?

Seems to be a love it or hate kind of proposition. I didn't like the Studio series for my main system, especially for the price, but I put a full set of Cinemas in my bedroom system. Paradigm does have its fanboys, though.

[mazersteven]

2. My real question: As a newb, may I ask if Paradigm shows up on anybodies radar?

Not under $300 bucks. :eek:

Over $900 yes. :D

[oldgringo]

I'm your Huckleberry. http://av123forum.com/images/smilies/emot-clint.gif

http://www.geocities.com/godsstash/movies/tombstone/tombstone17.jpg

'Easy, boyz!

[Guangui]

Is that some sort of knock against us Canadians, because I will E-kick your ***.

SheepStar

Not really, but then why is it that PSB is facing out maple color??? Last time I checked PSB was a Canadian company...:p

You want so bad for me to say yes, so you can come here to try and kick my... The only reason you want me to say yes, is because where I live the temp right now is 82 Deg. F, actually I'm going fishing tomorrow morning. Going for Mahi-Mahi, so will save one for you, if you decide to come here and kick my...

Then we can sit and compare the T45's vs. the B25's, while eating fresh Ceviche, lobster bites, and having rum and cokes, mojitos, and extremely cold beers. Maybe we can smoke some ribs also.

What's the temp in you neck of the woods????

[mazersteven]

You want so bad for me to say yes, so you can come here to try and kick my... The only reason you want me to say yes, is because where I live the temp right now is 82 Deg. F, actually I'm going fishing tomorrow morning. Going for Mahi-Mahi, so will save one for you, if you decide to come here and kick my...

What's the temp in you neck of the woods????

81* in "my neck of the woods". Where are you?

[Guangui]

81* in "my neck of the woods". Where are you?

I have a home in Orlando, but not there. My main home is further south from Key West...PR.

[John Bailey]

2. My real question: As a newb, may I ask if Paradigm shows up on anybodies radar?

Paradigms show up all the time. They are a bit over the $300 range however unless on sale, and I haven't seen a sale on them lately.

John

[John Bailey]

Not really, but then why is it that PSB is facing out maple color??? Last time I checked PSB was a Canadian company...:p



I don't think PSB is doing away with maple, just that the sale at Saturday Audio in Chicago is only good for the maple. I've been told they have black ash for a good price also, but more than the maple.

John

[Soundman]

As long as your listening at low to moderate levels.

What's the worst that could happen? You make a classic receiver catch fire? No big deal. :eek:

I really have no clue. I'm learning myself.

Agreed! I would just be careful. If you start noticing it is running hot, you may want to look into other options. :)

[Guangui]

I don't think PSB is doing away with maple, just that the sale at Saturday Audio in Chicago is only good for the maple. I've been told they have black ash for a good price also, but more than the maple.

John


From what I've heard apparently it is either a face out, or an overstock at PSB.

Anyways, what you heard about their price on black ash is true...I was going to buy maple from SA, but ended buying black; wife had a BIG concern about color. I ended up paying $198.00 more for the complete set (T45/C40/B15) in black. But, since they ran out of black B15 and gave me black B25 for the same price, basically I ended paying the same as if they were maple.

[Big_I]

I figure I'll beg someone to sell me a cheap used Emotiva BPA-1 if the Marantz can't handle the PSBs. Maybe someone will want to trade?

[3db]

I figure I'll beg someone to sell me a cheap used Emotiva BPA-1 if the Marantz can't handle the PSBs. Maybe someone will want to trade?

I'd be very surprised if your Marantz wouldn't be able to crank them to very loud levels. They are efficient speakers. Not a Klipsch efficiency but efficeint enough.

[Big_I]

I'd be very surprised if your Marantz wouldn't be able to crank them to very loud levels. They are efficient speakers. Not a Klipsch efficiency but efficeint enough.

Well the damping factor is pretty low on the <a href=http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/2230b.html>Marantz 2230</a> (note: 2230B specs are linked but should be the same). Its ~ 45 at 8 ohms.

[Guangui]

I figure I'll beg someone to sell me a cheap used Emotiva BPA-1 if the Marantz can't handle the PSBs. Maybe someone will want to trade?

Emotiva will have their new version of BPA-1 available in April.

Marantz should be able to handle very well your PSB's. I have an SR-5001, and it doesn't even sweat moving my PSB's. PSB Synchrony and Platinum tend to be power hungry, but not their Image series.

[j_garcia]

My PM7200 in class A mode only delivers 25w and it is plenty for all but the most demanding speakers I have thrown at it. During normal operation, especially with a bookshelf, you are drawing on average only 5-10 watts max at typical listening levels (dynamic peaks and heavy bass can spike up to 10X that though). If you want to crank it, it may be an issue, but the best way to find out is to try it.

[Big_I]

Before:
<img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2001/2210120213_fb04e81d3c_m.jpg">


After:
<img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2260/2210120229_e3955f77c9_m.jpg">


I've been shaking my house with these for a few hours and the Marantz isn't even thinking about getting hot. Mucho bass for something this small (ie with:"Steppin' Razor" by Sublime or "Rudeboy Shufflin'" by Israel Vibrations... yeah!!!) ! Plenty loud with the volume knob only at 1/3. I can't use all those fancy terms you nerds use (:D) but I'm definitely hearing things in the music that I haven't before. The treble is screamin, and the mids tie it all together. Horns and drums sound great, much better than with the Fishers. Oh, and bass guitar.... wow!

My system is now:
Marantz 2230
PSB B25 x2
E-MU APS PC Soundcard with 1/4" outputs
1/4" to RCA Monster Interlink 201
Technics 1200 turntable
Sony CDP-CE525 CD player
Ipod Nano + 1/8" to RCA


Saturday Audio's customer service was pretty good. I paid with paypal and they shipped it right away.

[Big_I]

I just ran some old Miami bass stuff though these... totally ridiculous that a bookshelf can hit this hard! Ever heard of Bass 305?

[John Bailey]

Not a bad system my man! Bet it sounds great.

John

[Sheep]

What's the temp in you neck of the woods????

This morning it was about -7, and hovered around -2 all day. Sun was out, and it was freezing. This isn't typical Vancouver weather.. it's usually raining.

SheepStar

[cbraver]

Glad you are happy with your speakers.

Mucho bass for something this small (ie with:"Steppin' Razor" by Sublime or "Rudeboy Shufflin'" by Israel Vibrations... yeah!!!) !


A SUBLIME FAN!!! Steppin' Razor is a great bass test song (and a great song on it's own, Robbin' the Hood is a great album... BRADLEY R.I.P!@#!). Isreal Vibrations is great tunes too, I got some of their stuff on vinyl. Lots of other Sublime songs are great speaker tests too. Not the kind of speaker tests that tell you if a speaker is technically brilliant... Sublime songs are good for testing if a speaker has SOUL. ;) Great Stone, Legalize It, Miami, 89 Vision ("ooohhhhh you should see what ya young daughter do, what she can dooo... thanks for teaching her, all the dirty little things she can do... I taught her...a couple of tricks that I knew... I hope you enjoy 'em..when they coming back to you"), Let's Go Get Stoned, and of course April 29, 1992 (Miami). But all Sublime is amazing. ;)

Try some dubstep music on those too.

Oh, and props for having the 1200. I have a pair of 1210s through a Vestax mixer back home. ;) Technics are still the way to go. ;)

[dorokusai]

My favorite bookend, sentimentally, is the KEF C15 and you can find them pretty cheap. It's an unassuming bookie, Al dome and does everything near-field just right. :) They have been my computer speakers for a long time and the first speakers(1987) to turn me onto hi-fi.

Mark
Polk Audio CS

[Guangui]

Big I: I'm glad you are happy with your purchase. Sometimes there is no need to break the bank to obtain great sound, and PSB B25 is a proof of that.

Sheep: Sorry, to hear that...I'm freezing my butt here it is 72 Deg. F tonight.

[3db]

Big I: I'm glad you are happy with your purchase. Sometimes there is no need to break the bank to obtain great sound, and PSB B25 is a proof of that.

Sheep: Sorry, to hear that...I'm freezing my butt here it is 72 Deg. F tonight.

To steal this thread for a second...

No sympathy for either of you from this devil.. Went to work at a balmy -24 yesterday and I think a heat wave hit us. Its up to -11 C and I'm sweating!!.Wait!! Perspiring !! :D


BIGI Congrats on your PSB. I knew your Marantz would not have any trouble driving them.

[JK_Livin22]

I too am looking for some budget bookshelf speakers. The speakers will be paired with a certified factory refurbished Marantz SR4001 that I bought my parents for Christmas (the surrounds btw are just some low end Klipsch satellites that came with a Samsung HTIB they purchased a few years ago). I am primarily looking for bookshelf speakers between $200-$300. The list I started with consisted of Monitor Audio's BR1s ($199) and BR2s ($279), Tannoy Mercury F1 Customs ($235), EPOS ELS 3 ($296), and Wharfedale 9.1s ($269). I am in a very rural area unfortunately, and do not have access to audition any of these speakers myself.

My Dad mostly listens to Classical music (I think he is especially fond of the piano), while my mom is a big fan of the 50's music (Elvis in particular, as well as Fats Domino, etc.) They also love to watch college basketball on their HD plasma TV and watch a movie about once a week or so. I would say that their system use is probably 55 to 60% music. With all of that in mind (especially the types of music they enjoy) I was hoping you could provide me with some comparative characteristics of these speakers.

From everything I've read, the BR2s would be ideal, except that they are really too large for the area. The speakers are going to be placed on a knee/thigh high entertainment stand, approx 4 feet apart on either side of the TV. I have basically narrowed it down to the BR1s the EPOS ELS 3s, and the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s. I contacted Marantz and they said the SR4001 would have no problem driving a 4 ohm speaker. I have heard that sometimes 4 ohm speakers can sound muddy when paired with an amp that is not qualified for 4 ohms speakers. Do you have any thoughts on the EPOS (4 ohms) with this Marantz? I should also mention that at some point (probably will be next Christmas) we hope to add a fairly inexpensive sub to the system. But since this may be a year or better, I am wondering how much I should take into consideration each speaker’s low end (55Hz for the BR1s, 65Hz for the ELS3s, and 50Hz for the 9.1s).

Although they are pushing the upper limits for size, I am fond of the Wharfedales because of their build quality, the silk dome tweeters (which I feel would make them quite smooth), and the option for bi-wiring, as well as some really good reviews. Although a couple of comments have me just a little concerned that they may be too warm, or lacking detail or separation. What are your thoughts on that?

I am fond of the EPOS because of some rave reviews for them as well, not to mention all the good things that I have read about them on several forums. I guess my concern with them is if they will be adequate for HT use (weekly ball games and 2 or 3 movies a month) without adding a sub in the immediate future. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think these would not be smooth enough or be at all too bright given the types of music they will be listening to?

I have not found any reviews of the BR1s, but have read some impressive reviews about the BR2s (and even more impressive reviews about the SR6s, which I hope to purchase for myself in the next month or so).

I hope I haven’t asked you to repeat too much of what you stated in your earlier posts. I certainly appreciate any experience/knowledge you could share about these speakers especially as far as how suitable their characteristics are for the types of music I mentioned.

Ultimately I am hoping to get my parents to listen to and enjoy more music and therefore want to make sure that I get them a speaker with exceptional musicality (for a budget bookshelf) and to make sure that they are not too bright or in any way fatiguing.
At the moment I am leaning ever so slightly toward the Wharfedales.

Thanks in advance.

[gus6464]

I too am looking for some budget bookshelf speakers. The speakers will be paired with a certified factory refurbished Marantz SR4001 that I bought my parents for Christmas (the surrounds btw are just some low end Klipsch satellites that came with a Samsung HTIB they purchased a few years ago). I am primarily looking for bookshelf speakers between $200-$300. The list I started with consisted of Monitor Audio's BR1s ($199) and BR2s ($279), Tannoy Mercury F1 Customs ($235), EPOS ELS 3 ($296), and Wharfedale 9.1s ($269). I am in a very rural area unfortunately, and do not have access to audition any of these speakers myself.

My Dad mostly listens to Classical music (I think he is especially fond of the piano), while my mom is a big fan of the 50's music (Elvis in particular, as well as Fats Domino, etc.) They also love to watch college basketball on their HD plasma TV and watch a movie about once a week or so. I would say that their system use is probably 55 to 60% music. With all of that in mind (especially the types of music they enjoy) I was hoping you could provide me with some comparative characteristics of these speakers.

From everything I've read, the BR2s would be ideal, except that they are really too large for the area. The speakers are going to be placed on a knee/thigh high entertainment stand, approx 4 feet apart on either side of the TV. I have basically narrowed it down to the BR1s the EPOS ELS 3s, and the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s. I contacted Marantz and they said the SR4001 would have no problem driving a 4 ohm speaker. I have heard that sometimes 4 ohm speakers can sound muddy when paired with an amp that is not qualified for 4 ohms speakers. Do you have any thoughts on the EPOS (4 ohms) with this Marantz? I should also mention that at some point (probably will be next Christmas) we hope to add a fairly inexpensive sub to the system. But since this may be a year or better, I am wondering how much I should take into consideration each speaker’s low end (55Hz for the BR1s, 65Hz for the ELS3s, and 50Hz for the 9.1s).

Although they are pushing the upper limits for size, I am fond of the Wharfedales because of their build quality, the silk dome tweeters (which I feel would make them quite smooth), and the option for bi-wiring, as well as some really good reviews. Although a couple of comments have me just a little concerned that they may be too warm, or lacking detail or separation. What are your thoughts on that?

I am fond of the EPOS because of some rave reviews for them as well, not to mention all the good things that I have read about them on several forums. I guess my concern with them is if they will be adequate for HT use (weekly ball games and 2 or 3 movies a month) without adding a sub in the immediate future. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think these would not be smooth enough or be at all too bright given the types of music they will be listening to?

I have not found any reviews of the BR1s, but have read some impressive reviews about the BR2s (and even more impressive reviews about the SR6s, which I hope to purchase for myself in the next month or so).

I hope I haven’t asked you to repeat too much of what you stated in your earlier posts. I certainly appreciate any experience/knowledge you could share about these speakers especially as far as how suitable their characteristics are for the types of music I mentioned.

Ultimately I am hoping to get my parents to listen to and enjoy more music and therefore want to make sure that I get them a speaker with exceptional musicality (for a budget bookshelf) and to make sure that they are not too bright or in any way fatiguing.
At the moment I am leaning ever so slightly toward the Wharfedales.

Thanks in advance.

I have a pair of ELS-3 setup right now in my 2ch system. Great little speakers whose strong point is the midrange. They go respectably low for their size and image very well. But they like quite a bit of power to really come alive.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c9/gus6464/2chsetup.jpg

[Guangui]

JK,

You might want to consider PSB B25, has all the characteristics your are looking for. You can get a pair from Sat Audio (www.saturdayaudio.com) for $299.00/pr. If you haven't already, check this thread:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40137

[krabapple]

there are three kinds of people on AVS ...

noobies. fanboys. trolls.

:)

You left out 'people who post on Audioholics too'.

There is a fantastic amount of good information posted on both.

[dorokusai]

The EPOS ELS-3 is a wonderful loudspeaker. You might also check out the NHT SB series, as they dig pretty deep for their respective size and the Polk LSi7. It's the smallest TOTL Polk but the gem of that whole line for me.

Mark

[3db]

Like Guangui mentioned, PSB Image B25 would be a soild choice. They're a very versatile speaker that will do justice to all types of musics. I auditioned a pair coupled to a NAD integrated amp and I walked away very impresssed.

[juliusdeane]

I'm also looking for speakers in this price range.

I just bought a used Denon 1508 AVR and want to start out with a couple bookshelves. My budget is limited, so to make the most of my money, I'll add the other parts later on. The system will probably be 50/50 movies and music, with a stronger critical ear towards music. The room they'll be in for now is 14X13 with a window seat in the back wall and one side being completely open into a larger kitchen and the rest of the house (not my choice, believe me).

I ordered the Axiom M3 v2 because I've heard such good things about them and want to hear them for myself. I'm planning on buying at least one more set and then keeping what I like the best.

So far I've listened to a few, mainly Boston HS60s, B&W 601S3s, and Klipsh RB61. Between those, I preferred the Bostons most of the time, but the B&W's were better in some comparisons. I see the appeal of Klipsh, but they're a little harsh for my taste.

I'm pretty limited in what I can go out an listen to in this area. Anything else I should consider for an in-home test (as I'm doing with the Axioms)?

[20Glove]

Take a look at these they are suppose to sound GREAT and have a lot of bass.

I have the Tower's of these and they sound awesome.

Go to Craigslist they are being sold all the time. $100-$200.

[jcPanny]

FYI,
I have a pair of the new AV123 ELT525 bookshelf speakers on order from AV123 for use as the surrounds with my Onix Ref L/C/R speakers. The intro price is $269 and they have a matching center and floorstander version planned in the future. They come in real wood Cherry or Rosewood veneer.

The larger X-LS encore is also in the $300 price range and will offer more bass extension.

[juliusdeane]

I did consider the x-ls. Unfortunately, the colors I would choose aren't ready. I'll add the ELT525 to my list. I'm not sure I'll give it a shot; the woofer is 1.25'' smaller than most of the other stuff I've looked at.

Right now my front runners are the Boston Acoustics HS60 (since I can't find the CR75 any more) and Axiom M3 (which I already ordered).

I'd like to try the PSBs and IL10s, but no one around here has them and I can't find an online retailer with a good return policy. Would the Infinity P162s be comparable? Crutchfield has them.

[Davidt1]

Anybody here has Mordaunt short speakers? I have yet to read a negative review of their speakers. I am on an upgrading path too -- a very slowly one as I am content with what I have. I like these based on price and look:

http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.storefront/47cef17d01c5eb6a2740ac10034106a7/Product/View/2514

I am curious how they would compare to some of the speakers recommended here.

[Joe Schmoe]

I posted a review of them, but is worth mentioning here that I am really impressed by the Cambridge Audio S30s (sale priced at $220/pr.) If I upgrade from them, I will have to spend at least $600 for a significant improvement.

[haraldo]

Too many posts to read 'em all, sorry if I'm reapeating what somebody else may have stated....

If you can stretch the budget by $100,- the Usher S520 may be something.

For anyone on a budget, check out these guys, good stuff and entertaining reading
http://www.affordableaudio.org/

The Usher S520 is reviewed here:
http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2007-12.pdf

Regards

Harald N

[emorphien]

I was in the same boat as you, I got Axiom M3Tis and loved them. Even though I've moved on for serious listening in my bedroom, I still have them and they get used pretty regularly in another room.

There are so many choices though, I'm still very happy that I went with them.

[Davidt1]

Anybody here has Mordaunt short speakers? I have yet to read a negative review of their speakers. I am on an upgrading path too -- a very slowly one as I am content with what I have. I like these based on price and look:

http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/TSTO.storefront/47cef17d01c5eb6a2740ac10034106a7/Product/View/2514

I am curious how they would compare to some of the speakers recommended here.

OK I found something interest thing about Mordaunt Short and Marantz. Apparently, they are related. Anyway, it's just one more good thing I hear about their speakers.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/milan2002/friday/

[juliusdeane]

Am I crazy for liking the Boston HS60s? I mean, I have a fairly virgin ear and I've only compared them to a few things. Should I even bother brining them home? I would love to try some of these others, but I'm limited on options for auditioning them.

I noticed that Axiom has a thread on their site of people who are willing to demo their systems and wear they live. Do we have anything like that on here?