Toshiba INCREASES HD DVD Marketing

[admin]

Toshiba today announced that it is stepping up its successful marketing campaign for HD DVD as it experienced record-breaking unit sales in the fourth quarter of 2007. Major initiatives, include joint advertising campaigns with studios and drastic price cuts which will begin in mid- January. HD DVD will also tout their focus on quality DVD upconversion and continued customer support. It seems Toshiba isn't ready to give up the ghost just yet.
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[GlocksRock]

They just need to give it up already, they are a day late and a dollar short. They knew they were falling behind blu ray overall, especially since HD DVD has fewer studios supporting them so they should have been focusing on these things from the beginning. At this point it would make much more sense to get a cheap A3 or A30 for the discs that are out there, and if you are looking for a great upconverting player. But most people were only considering upconverting players to hold them over till the format war was over, and now that it looks like it is, there really is no good reason to invest in a player for a dying format.

[Buckeye_Nut]

Record sales? I guess it may have been a record quarter for HD-DVD, but Blu-ray still smoked them in the 4th quarter by a 65:35 sales ratio.
(if you exclude the 3:1 ratio in Europe and 9:1 in Japan)

I wouldn't expect them to surrender just yet considering the large investment involved. Regardless of Toshiba's desperate efforts, they'll continue to lose ground to Blu-ray in 2008. It will be interesting to see just how much ground Toshiba loses in the 1st quarter while they still have the benefit of WB releases. It will be downhill after that.....

[alexsound]

Toshiba today announced that it is stepping up its successful marketing campaign for HD DVD as it experienced record-breaking unit sales in the fourth quarter of 2007. Major initiatives, include joint advertising campaigns with studios and drastic price cuts which will begin in mid- January. HD DVD will also tout their focus on quality DVD upconversion and continued customer support. It seems Toshiba isn't ready to give up the ghost just yet.
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Discuss "Toshiba INCREASES HD DVD Marketing" here. Read the article (http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/toshiba-increases-hd-dvd-marketing).

Stupid move. Not unexpected, but stupid nonetheless. As with the initial reports that WB was going Blu exclusively, Universal and Paramount will more than likely follow suit, even though both of them have "officially" denied that they will be abandoning HD-DVD. This was also the case with WB when rumors started flying around that they will be abandoning HD-DVD and they "officially" denied it and then look what happened with them. Regardless of which side is taken in this format war, it's seems to me that it's fairly obvious who's going to win at this point, regardless of who has the superior format.

[stratman]

They should rethink their marketing strategy to: "We'll include a free player with you first HD DVD movie purchase." Maybe that'll give them a leg up on Bluray.

I say they really should stop throwing away good money after bad (advertising a dead horse) and start production on their version of a Bluray player.:D

[j_garcia]

It doesn't really matte what they do if the studios drop support. They are going to increase marketing to make sure they get rid of existing players and movies. Of course they are not going to mention that they are on their last leg...

[alexsound]

It doesn't really matte what they do if the studios drop support. They are going to increase marketing to make sure they get rid of existing players and movies. Of course they are not going to mention that they are on their last leg...

Good point. After seeing their sales temporarily go through the roof, hardwarewise, during the holidays, they may have ramped up to much production and are basically have a "fire sale" without actually saying it to get rid of remaining inventory.

[allargon]

It is a bit too little too late unless they convince Paramount or Universal to release a high profile release on HD-DVD (combo or hybrid) only without a DVD version.

Towards the 4th quarter that lead was more like 58:42 if you look at releases available on both formats (e.g. Harry Potter and Blade Runner).

[BMXTRIX]

Toshiba isn't about to drop the ball on a format war that will cost them billions, and I don't think Microsoft will either. Toshiba wants the market confused so that either HD DVD owns a piece of the HD market, or that nobody buys in and keeps buying DVDs which they get significant royalties from annually.

Microsoft wants the market confused long enough for HDDL to become the norm. If people skip the next generation of disc based optical hardware, and instead wait it out a bit longer, then the download market will be ripe for their taking. "Hey look! Don't buy even more hardware, your solution is right there on your desktop and has a name.... Vista!"

No, I think Toshiba is willing to subsidize players, if they aren't already, to try to maintain or increase market share.

It should be noted, that at CES, Toshiba put up a slide that did NOT include PS3 consoles, which indicated that the current stand alone player sales belonged 49% to HD DVD, and 51% to Blu-ray. This is a significant slide, especially from Toshiba, as it indicates that despite rock bottom pricing, they still have not actually managed to outsell the competition even with a huge number of the competitors using PS3 and not stand alone units.

Toshiba isn't stupid, they likely know that HD DVD isn't going to get much further here. But, for them, there must be some other piece that they gain by continuing to fight this format war that they began.

[GlocksRock]

I think Toshiba is trying to hold out as long as possible to help minimize their losses as much as they can.

[Seth=L]

It's not stupid. If the marketing helps them to get rid of what they already made or are still obligated to make (Discs, players) and sell them, wouldn't that help prevent Toshiba from loosing money, at least anymore than they already have, on players mostly.

[Buckeye_Nut]

Towards the 4th quarter that lead was more like 58:42 if you look at releases available on both formats (e.g. Harry Potter and Blade Runner).

No they weren't....

Nielson's confirms it.... One of HD-DVDs better weeks of the 4th quarter was week ending december 2nd. In that week, HD-dvd accomplished 58-42 loss to Blu-ray, but a quarter it doesn't make. The HD people are clearly in denial.

[Buckeye_Nut]

It should be noted, that at CES, Toshiba put up a slide that did NOT include PS3 consoles, which indicated that the current stand alone player sales belonged 49% to HD DVD, and 51% to Blu-ray.

LOL....that's like Mitsubishi claiming they sell more cars than Toyota providing they exclude the Camry and Corolla.

[BMXTRIX]

LOL....that's like Mitsubishi claiming they sell more cars than Toyota in the USA providing they don't include the Camry and Corolla numbers.
Very true - but it's worse - It's like Mitsubishi saying that despite NOT including Camry and Corolla - they STILL weren't able to outsell Toyota.

HD DVD supporters, and most BD supporters have believed that HD DVD stand alone units have been outselling Blu-ray stand alone units (not including PS3/X360 add-on) for the past year solidly.

The truth appears that despite sub $200 players, Toshiba hasn't managed to outsell their competition.

That's one of those things that's gotta really hurt.

[j_garcia]

I think Toshiba is trying to hold out as long as possible to help minimize their losses as much as they can.

DiVX anyone? Does this sound familiar? They are going to try to sell off what is on shelves and in production right now while they try to figure out what they will do next.

[markw]

This kinda reminds me of Studebaker pressing forward with the Avanti when everyone (including them) knew they were knock, knock, knockin' on Heavens door.

Too little too late. It's the software availabity that makes or breaks a format.

The announcements are a nice way to push sales of existing inventory, though. Their dealers love this stuff...

[alexsound]

Toshiba isn't about to drop the ball on a format war that will cost them billions, and I don't think Microsoft will either. Toshiba wants the market confused so that either HD DVD owns a piece of the HD market, or that nobody buys in and keeps buying DVDs which they get significant royalties from annually.

Microsoft wants the market confused long enough for HDDL to become the norm. If people skip the next generation of disc based optical hardware, and instead wait it out a bit longer, then the download market will be ripe for their taking. "Hey look! Don't buy even more hardware, your solution is right there on your desktop and has a name.... Vista!"

No, I think Toshiba is willing to subsidize players, if they aren't already, to try to maintain or increase market share.

It should be noted, that at CES, Toshiba put up a slide that did NOT include PS3 consoles, which indicated that the current stand alone player sales belonged 49% to HD DVD, and 51% to Blu-ray. This is a significant slide, especially from Toshiba, as it indicates that despite rock bottom pricing, they still have not actually managed to outsell the competition even with a huge number of the competitors using PS3 and not stand alone units.

Toshiba isn't stupid, they likely know that HD DVD isn't going to get much further here. But, for them, there must be some other piece that they gain by continuing to fight this format war that they began.

You may have a good point on Toshiba not wanting to loose the billions they've put in, or that Microsoft wants the HD disc formats to fail until HDDL can actually compete, but there may be another reason Toshiba is still pushing along. Pride. Sony did it with the Betamax in the early eighties. They fought with VHS even after JVC's VHS format had clearly won over the general public. And Beta was a superior format, at least picture wise.

Phillips pushed the Digital compact cassette as the next major consumer audio recording format to replace analog cassette. Only Technics backed them up. That endevour lasted about a year longer that it should have. Eventually, Phillips DCC recorders were being sold at 75-80% off MSRP just about everywhere. And I really like the mention in this thread of DIVX DVD that Circuit City tried to push down the public's throat with the support of many of the major sudios. It didn't fly, but it did cost RCA/PROSCAN a boatload of money because the DIVX players were expensive, and they were the only ones on the market. They were stuck with massive inventory of DIVX DVD players that CC had to get rid of basically at a loss on every unit. Guess who paid for most of that loss? RCA-PROSCAN. Thompson, the parent company of Proscan, basically killed the Proscan line after that.

[D.R. Payne]

Without studio support, without the support of more CE manufacturers, Toshiba's strategy is (and has been) to deliver a "knock out punch", they have never been set up for a long battle. Their marketing is now saying what a great upconverter for DVDs their HD-DVD players are. This is true, but reading between the lines it's sounding like damage control for when they drop out.

It's interesting that the studios LEAST successful in recent years (cough Universal cough) are the ones clinging to HD-DVD. They have the most to gain by opening up new markets.

[aberkowitz]

So how low would the price of an A30 or A35 have to drop before somebody picks one up these days to use as an upscaler and to take advantage of dirt cheap HD movies. Being that I already have a PS3, I'd probably wait until one of them hits the $99 mark and pounce.

Edit: One thing that I just noticed looking at Amazon is that they've drastically cut the "List Prices" down respectively on the A30 and A35. Just last week I believe the A35's list price was well over $400 and the A30 had to be around $350.

[Tomorrow]

LOL....that's like Mitsubishi claiming they sell more cars than Toyota providing they exclude the Camry and Corolla.

Not that it will make any difference...but remember that Tosh will be coming out with PC and notebook HD-DVD drives this year.

[The Dukester]

I think that if Toshiba want's to provide proof of continued support and belief in the product, they should come out with new players. That would convince me they wanted it to succeed, or at least continue for awhile. Simply reducing prices on existing players says they are getting all they can while they can until they run out or decide to quit making the exising players. I could be crazy, though.:D

I wonder if they had new players at CES and pulled them when the Warner announcement came out?

FWIW, I wish there had been no war, just competition between manufacturers putting out the same format. No doubt in my mind that would have worked much better in adoption and I believe prices would be coming down nicely, albeit perhaps not as low or as fast as HD DVD came down.

[stratman]

My only fear is that the winning format will turn into the next LaserDisc. Up to now hi def dvd players account for roughly 10% of the market, if the average consumer doesn't adopt it will disappear, (sorry Duke!) the economy will be a bigger player in the fate of hi def dvd. The numbers that came back from the Christmas season were flaccid at best. SD DVD is still the king of the hill (for now.)

[j_garcia]

SD DVD is still the king of the hill just like VHS was though... SD DVD sales have dropped quite a bit over the last year, so the novelty has worn off for J6P who just switched from VHS 2 years ago I guess. Prices are not going to come down to DVD levels immediately, however just like VHS, one way to get people to switch is to STOP MAKING SD DVDs; these are the same studios releasing the DVDs after all; and once there is an actual winner, they can do this (phase out over time just as with VHS).

[stratman]

SD DVD is still the king of the hill just like VHS was though... SD DVD sales have dropped quite a bit over the last year, so the novelty has worn off for J6P who just switched from VHS 2 years ago I guess. Prices are not going to come down to DVD levels immediately, however just like VHS, one way to get people to switch is to STOP MAKING SD DVDs; these are the same studios releasing the DVDs after all; and once there is an actual winner, they can do this (phase out over time just as with VHS).

Correct, but then they'll have to reinvest more capital in turning regular SD DVD production into bluray, I don't know how much that entails, the risk that the studios want to take, or how much J6P is willing to invest if his job is in jeopardy (actual or perceived), especially if he's in the construction/retail sector. Interesting times indeed. I hope it doesn't end like LaserDisc.

[TVJon]

I'm watching another niche player - Apple, Inc. - to see whether they add Bluray to their computers - and whether it's part of the rumored to be updated AppleTV. The MacWorld Keynote is tomorrow - we'll find out then. Apple's endorsement could be important -- especially given its growing profile in the digital content world.

TVJon

[MUDSHARK]

I think Stratman is right on about DVD. My 26 year old son said to me the other day that I'm the only one he knows with a Hd television. In my entire company of 400 employees there might be 5 with HD televisions (and those are RP sub 1,000 dollar models). I will labor over a speaker purchase for two years but we picked out the DLP in a single afternoon. If not for the promise of superior sound formats I would not even be more than curious.

The intelligentsia of this forum is not even close to the vast vast majority of citizens. My take is it doesn't really matter. The people here will be downloading HD movies without either format in a few years while the public will not even care let alone understand what the fuss was about.

The movie studios want the economies of large production runs and that means DVD like Rock N'Roll is here to stay.

[stratman]

I think Stratman is right on about DVD. My 26 year old son said to me the other day that I'm the only one he knows with a Hd television. In my entire company of 400 employees there might be 5 with HD televisions (and those are RP sub 1,000 dollar models). I will labor over a speaker purchase for two years but we picked out the DLP in a single afternoon. If not for the promise of superior sound formats I would not even be more than curious.

The intelligentsia of this forum is not even close to the vast vast majority of citizens. My take is it doesn't really matter. The people here will be downloading HD movies without either format in a few years while the public will not even care let alone understand what the fuss was about.

The movie studios want the economies of large production runs and that means DVD like Rock N'Roll is here to stay.


Agreed, there are many forces at work against hi-def dvd. Right now there are billions invested in a product that's reaching roughly 10% of the CE buying public (which entails the hardcore hobbysts, mainly us.) The economy, return on initial investment, confusion and apathy will be four tall hills Bluray will need to conquer before getting close to SD DVD sales and profit figures in the foreseeable future. I'm not saying its impossible, just highly inprobable with the existing conditions. So the first chapter of the "battle" might be closing, but the real war is far from over.

[The Dukester]

My only fear is that the winning format will turn into the next LaserDisc. Up to now hi def dvd players account for roughly 10% of the market, if the average consumer doesn't adopt it will disappear, (sorry Duke!) the economy will be a bigger player in the fate of hi def dvd. The numbers that came back from the Christmas season were flaccid at best. SD DVD is still the king of the hill (for now.)

You haven't heard of HD DVD?! Your'e killin' me, Smalls.

Strat, you could be right about them becoming like Laserdisc, but I hope not. I don't think the studios killing SD will force the adoption of HDM on the average person. They will probably just get mad for awhile and not buy anything. They may eventually go for it, but it depends on what else has come along in the meantime to offer them a choice.

I also don't see downloads taking off in the near future. There are alot of young folks coming up that are used to downloading music, so it may take off eventually, but not in the near future, IMHO. Music and movies are two different things, too. Music is an almost anywhere, anytime type of thing. It isn't a wise idea to do yardwork, jog, wash the car or numerous other things while wathcing a movie.;) Movies are a sit down and relax time.

As for the success of HD DVD or BD, I think the only way to achieve mass adoption is for mass advertising, lower prices on hardware and software, putting out something that WORKS without firmware updates every few weeks and this silly war being over. Unity, baby, that's what I'm talking about. Getting the word out about HDM is the best thing that can happen out of Toshiba's not giving up yet. Just don't win the battle and lose the war. The real war is not with BD, it's SD if you ask me.

Oh, and Strat...stop with all the negative waves about the economy, dude! It's all good!

[stratman]

Hey Duke, it is all good!!!

Nothing but a small bump, we'll get over it! My problem with Net downloads is that the majority of the American public will not go for it, it's going to have to be extremely user-friendly almost like a hotel. Anyone over 45 will not want to bother (unless they really like to mess around with computers), remember the big to do with VCRs: the clock, the programming, putting in the tape, blah, blah blah. Net downloads: the young, optical media: everyone else.:D

[MUDSHARK]

Go easy on that over 45 stuff!:(

Never too old to rock n'roll.:)

[stratman]

That's for sure look at ZZ Top or The Stones, those guys have formaldehyde for blood, but they can outrock any of these new so-called rock bands!:D

[Hi Ho]

As for the success of HD DVD or BD, I think the only way to achieve mass adoption is for mass advertising, lower prices on hardware and software, putting out something that WORKS without firmware updates every few weeks and this silly war being over. Unity, baby, that's what I'm talking about. Getting the word out about HDM is the best thing that can happen out of Toshiba's not giving up yet. Just don't win the battle and lose the war. The real war is not with BD, it's SD if you ask me.

That's exactly what has me so baffled about this HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray battle. What made Joe Average want to get a Blu-Ray player when he could get HD-DVD for half the price? Isn't price everything to Joe Average?

HD-DVD was a completed spec right out of the gate. Sure, there were firmware update but every HD-DVD player from day one supported every feature in the spec. We're still waiting for profile 2.0 Blu-Ray players!

What caused Joe Average to go against the grain and buy into an incomplete format that cost twice as much? I bet that he wouldn't and I went with HD-DVD. Apparently I bet wrong.

[stratman]

That's exactly what has me so baffled about this HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray battle. What made Joe Average want to get a Blu-Ray player when he could get HD-DVD for half the price? Isn't price everything to Joe Average?

HD-DVD was a completed spec right out of the gate. Sure, there were firmware update but every HD-DVD player from day one supported every feature in the spec. We're still waiting for profile 2.0 Blu-Ray players!

What caused Joe Average to go against the grain and buy into an incomplete format that cost twice as much? I bet that he wouldn't and I went with HD-DVD. Apparently I bet wrong.

One very important aspect got J6P to look at BD: advertising. Bluray came out punching with heavy saturation and rotation all accross cable, satellite and printed media, whilst HD DVD stayed back and tried to get converts with lower pricing and arguably better software implementation. But like the old adage says "out of sight out of mind," if I don't know you're there I wont buy you. You have to be aggressive, that's marketing 101.

[Hi Ho]

One very important aspect got J6P to look at BD: advertising. Bluray came out punching with heavy saturation and rotation all accross cable, satellite and printed media, whilst HD DVD stayed back and tried to get converts with lower pricing and arguably better software implementation. But like the old adage says "out of sight out of mind," if I don't know you're there I wont buy you. You have to be aggressive, that's marketing 101.

That's just one more aspect that makes it that much more baffling. One would think that Toshiba would realize that advertising is absolutely necessary. I know I have seen far more Blu-Ray ads than HD-DVD. I have never figured out why they seemed to slack on ads!

[aberkowitz]

That's just one more aspect that makes it that much more baffling. One would think that Toshiba would realize that advertising is absolutely necessary. I know I have seen far more Blu-Ray ads than HD-DVD. I have never figured out why they seemed to slack on ads!

That's because Toshiba is a hardware manufacturer, while Sony is an entertainment company. I would bet on Sony any day of the week to out-market the hell out of Toshiba- on top of the fact that Sony was probably able to lean on both their gaming and movie production areas to help provide marketing dollars to put towards Blu Ray promotion.

[alexsound]

That's exactly what has me so baffled about this HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray battle. What made Joe Average want to get a Blu-Ray player when he could get HD-DVD for half the price? Isn't price everything to Joe Average?

HD-DVD was a completed spec right out of the gate. Sure, there were firmware update but every HD-DVD player from day one supported every feature in the spec. We're still waiting for profile 2.0 Blu-Ray players!

What caused Joe Average to go against the grain and buy into an incomplete format that cost twice as much? I bet that he wouldn't and I went with HD-DVD. Apparently I bet wrong.

Available software, OR, better yet, the illusion of available software was IMO another deciding factor. Even though HD-DVD had more titles available initially, the different adds for BD showed all these different characters from major movies like Spiderman, Pirates of the Carribean, Harry Potter, etc. Of course, many of the movies weren't even available yet in BD, but they at least gave the impression that they would be. Eventually, BD did overtake HD-DVD in title availability.

I also believe that, regardless of the price differences in the hardware, the pricing was high enough for both formats, that most of the early adopters would be more along the lines of a "videophile", not really a "Joe Average" therefore, they won't just look at the component itself, but also, how much the software was, and how much of it is available, etc. Even though BD was no quite "complete", it had some major backing from the big boys in the A/V world, like Panasonic, Pioneer, and Samsung and Phillips. Others that committed to BD were Mitsubishi, Sharp and Denon. That's where HD-DVD could have possibley won the war, but they couldn't get any other major manufacturers, other than RCA to jump on board. Yeah, Onkyo made a late announcement, but at this point, I don't think their HD player will be out for very long. Also having the prices are $30+ dollars for ONE movie at most retail outlets for most titles put them in the same boat as BD.

Please don't take this as a defense for BD. I like Toshiba, and still have my SD-3109 DVD player from them. I just think it's time for them to move on.
At this point, I don't think they can win this now.

[stratman]

That's just one more aspect that makes it that much more baffling. One would think that Toshiba would realize that advertising is absolutely necessary. I know I have seen far more Blu-Ray ads than HD-DVD. I have never figured out why they seemed to slack on ads!

Back in 1989 Infiniti did the same dumb thing with their Q45, it cost them dearly, it let Lexus overtake them, they still haven't rebounded and at this stage they never will, Lexus outsells them by a wide margin.

[j_garcia]

I saw an HD DVD ad at the theater before some movie from one of the format backers...that was about the only ad I ever saw. I have seen Blu-ray ads in magazines, on TV, and yet the average person STILL doesn't know what either one is. If BD wins, people will know what it is, but that only means fence sitters and the second "stage phase" adopters will buy in - that may add another 10-20% to the total, but SD DVD will still be in the mind of the masses.

[majorloser]

The download sollution is the ABSOLUTE best idea. But until we get some companies to get off their butt and provide us enough bandwidth it might be awhile. We are a bandwidth hungry society.

I still say that companies need to move away from the mechanical drive optical media. No matter what they do it will still be "just another shiny spinning disc."

Toshiba has lost the war and just doesn't want to tell it's stockholders.

Got to give Clint his props.http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/10-more-reasons-hd-dvd-failed/?searchterm=both%20will%20lose

[GlocksRock]

The download sollution is the ABSOLUTE best idea.

I disagree completely

Downloadable content is good, but I don't see it as a solution that is better than physical media. What happens when you want to watch a movie on a different tv, or take it to a friends house, or play it somewhere without an internet connection? I still say physical media is the only way to go, wether it be an optical disc, flash drive, or some other medium. You can store downloadable content on a hard drive, but eventually you will run out of space and then what? Pay again to redownload what you already paid for? Plus if there is an outage of online service, or someone else is using a pc in your house and using up a lot of bandwidth, will that disturb your movie? I don't know, but you won't have those issues with phsyical media.

[j_garcia]

I don't think downloads will be THE solution, but they will be a factor for sure. Physical media likely won't go away completely, but it will take a back seat. There are a lot of things that need to be put in place first though, and we are years from that.

Physical media is just as easy to damage/destroy as it would be to lose a hard disc, and physical media also has a life expectancy; they are not everlasting gobstopers, so there is no advantage to either.

[aberkowitz]

they are not everlasting gobstopers, so there is no advantage to either.

Willy Wonka?

[j_garcia]

Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker :D

[darien87]

"I've got a blueberry for a daughter!" :D

[Rico]

In the meantime, I still got my Oppo doing a great job, (SACD/DivX/SD/etc). :D
And then, once this 'war' is over (if there's a 'end') I will decide wich way I wanna go. Fortunally, by then, players are going to be more reliable, I hope. and about that Oppo you ask ?I will always have that extra bedroom for it.

[GlocksRock]

I would say by now, you can basically say that blu ray has won, and a PS3 would be your best bet for a blu ray player. I would suggest if you can afford it, you get a used PS3 to use as a blu ray player, since it's the simplest to upgrade due to it's lan and wi-fi connection, and since it's a major product for sony, they will be constantly putting out updates for it, and the load times are among the fastest of any blu ray player out there due to the sheer power of the cell processor, and the video quality is just as good or better than the rest of the players on the market, and it upscales very well too. And on top of all that, you get a killer gaming console, and a nice media server, plus it also plays SACD (except the 40 gig version) and I believe it also supports divx as of the last update, although I haven't actually burned a divx disc to try, it will play some divx encoded video files on my media pc.

[BMXTRIX]

The download sollution is the ABSOLUTE best idea. But until we get some companies to get off their butt and provide us enough bandwidth it might be awhile. We are a bandwidth hungry society.

I still say that companies need to move away from the mechanical drive optical media. No matter what they do it will still be "just another shiny spinning disc."

Toshiba has lost the war and just doesn't want to tell it's stockholders.

Got to give Clint his props.http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/10-more-reasons-hd-dvd-failed/?searchterm=both%20will%20lose
HDDL is the future, but it most definitely isn't here yet. Any concept pushed forth that HDDL is the here and now is seriously misinformed of the current market conditions for broadband.

Only about 25% of US households have broadband... How many do you think have DVD players? What do you think the market is for Blu-ray? It isn't just 100% of the market, it's 100% of the worldwide market. So, while HDDL sounds like a good idea, it is a LONG way from becoming anything approaching a standard and only works for certain people in very specific markets.

Moreso, most of the downloads currently available are rentals - not purchases, so you don't get to enjoy the movie again and again... but if you did, you would have to consider just what this will cost consumers.

You say - quick broadband downloads - sounds great!

I reflect - terrabytes of necessary storage space to accomplish storing more than a few dozen movies at the quality, and with the extras which Blu-ray currently delivers. Configuration settings, networks going in and out... Most of all, the hard drive failure.

This isn't a joke by a long shot - if your hard drive fails, and you have 50 movies on there, are you expected to live with the expense of not just the hardware, but your movie collection as well? Last time I replaced my DVD player, the new one didn't require me to repurchase the EXACT SAME DVDs because I got a new player.

What a scam!

On the other hand, I could see HDDL becoming a true replacement for movie rentals. 100% availability of all titles, HD titles formatted for your specific display (1080p? 720p? 480i? No problem!) Movies that download weeks ahead of 'release' but software controlled to prevent viewing until release day.

An onscreen rental queue that is similar to Netflix or BB Online... yet from the TV and even less hassle than the near hassle free experience many enjoy now.

The hard part with all this remains - AppleTV is hardware. Vista requires hardware. It all requires a hard drive that consumers are required to purchase and until enough of them do, it's all just iPod fodder.

If a Netflix teams up with Comcast or Cox - then things could get really crazy with HDDL video rentals very quickly. I think a key is the fixed monthly fee and a solid user interface.

[spacedteddybear]

I don't know if this has been posted yet;
The downfall of HD-DVD: Clicky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ)
Warning FOUL LANGUAGE AHEAD!

[Gatsby191]

Since alot of people are claiming that Blu-Ray has won(Pros and Novices Alike), I am wondering if anyone knows where I might find some "Cheaper" priced HD DVDS for sale. (Preferrably online) I have both players, and they were both gifts for this past Christmas.(Panasonic's DMP-BD30 and Toshiba's HD-A35). I was hoping to find some cheaper prices on new releases that are on HD right now-because of the recent format war update. But, the HD DVD prices don't seem to be budging yet. Anyone have any advice, or info on where I might find some price breaks? Just trying to save some $ if I can.
Thanks everyone! Joe B. :)

[stratman]

Since alot of people are claiming that Blu-Ray has won(Pros and Novices Alike), I am wondering if anyone knows where I might find some "Cheaper" priced HD DVDS for sale. (Preferrably online) I have both players, and they were both gifts for this past Christmas.(Panasonic's DMP-BD30 and Toshiba's HD-A35). I was hoping to find some cheaper prices on new releases that are on HD right now-because of the recent format war update. But, the HD DVD prices don't seem to be budging yet. Anyone have any advice, or info on where I might find some price breaks? Just trying to save some $ if I can.
Thanks everyone! Joe B. :)

Joe,

I will only say the "battle" is over when Toshiba announces their first Bluray player.:D Try deepdiscount.com

[Buckeye_Nut]

Since many people seem so concerned about waiting <60 seconds for a BD/HD disc to load, I wonder how they'll feel when they try to download a 30-50 GIG file off the internet.

[j_garcia]

Just last night I saw TWO HD DVD ads on TV in the span of one 1hr show. Clearly they are stepping up advertising.

[BMXTRIX]

HD DVD isn't losing because of advertising, they aren't losing because of price.

They are losing because of CE and studio support.

As is always the case, people want choice, and they have their favorite manufacturers that they will buy into regardless of price. People forget that the CE company that is most despised (Sony) is the same company that is most trusted. People forget that companies like Panasonic, Samsung, and Pioneer draw loyalties and $$$ based upon their brand name. Toshiba, while well respected for years, is no Sony or Samsung. They are huge, but never one of the forefront choices for consumers when considering a CE purchase.

So, when it comes down to an accurate assesment of the format war - when looking at CE companies - it is Toshiba vs. everyone else. Those are the odds you bet against with HD DVD... EVERY other major CE manufacturer.

Unlike SACD and DVD-A which was actually split among manufacturers... and hit a totally different market segment... Blu-ray has nearly unanimous support with CEs with them developing product from the ground up. It is dismissed as Sony vs. Toshiba, but Sony stand alone players only represent about 60% of the market. Yes, the majority, but not the 100% that Toshiba is. 40% of Blu-ray stand alone player sales are generated by companies that are NOT Sony.

I think if Toshiba had gotten HD DVD into the X360 and managed to get a few more manufacturers on board then things would be far, FAR better for their format.

The studio support has always had a slight bend towards Blu-ray as well, with only Universal originally being HD DVD exclusive. It had been like 85% to 50% for Blu-ray vs. HD DVD in studio support. Come May it is, as of now, going to be about 70% to 30% in favor of Blu-ray.

Pricing is a big boost, but only if it sells movies. If people buy HD DVD players then just rent some movies, or use it as an upconverter, then there will be no reason for Universal or Paramount to not go neutral... at the very least.

2007 was indeed interesting, but 2008 may be far moreso.