Is Paramount Following Warner Bros. in Leaving HD DVD?

[GlocksRock]

Looks like they are scouring their contracts for the get out clauses.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/paramount-following-warner-out-the-hd-dvd-door/

This could be great news for all those Transformers fans that want the movie released on Blu Ray with TrueHD or PCM audio!

[Jey Jockey]

I can't see the Finacial Times publishing this if they didn't have a very reliable source, its not like they are the Enquirer or the bits:D

[aberkowitz]

When it rains it pours.....

[GlocksRock]

When it rains it pours.....

Exactly. Looks like the format war will be over even quicker than I thought.

[Duffinator]

Exactly. Looks like the format war will be over even quicker than I thought.Yep, much faster than I thought. Now if I can find a player that decodes and outputs both DD HD and DTS MA I'll be happy!

[GlocksRock]

I am upset that the PS3 doesn't currently decode DTS-HD MA, and just as upset that it can't output TrueHD or DD+, or DTS-HD MA(once it gets decoding capability) via bitstream. But I know in the future there will eventually be less expensive standalone players that will do that, so I just have to give it time.

[j_garcia]

I am sure Paramount also sees the writing on the wall and with recession looming in the US, they know the market will be too tight to be part of a format war, especially one that isn't looking so good on the side they've chosen right now. Their only hope for pushing the technology is to all work together to supplant DVD and that will take a lot longer than the format war was going to last regardless.

[GlocksRock]

I guess this news will give Universal something to comment on as well. I'm sure now that they know Paramount is trying to get out of their deal, they will be going BD exclusive very soon.

[j_garcia]

Paramount already said when the original switch to HD DVD exclusiveity that it was not permanent and was for a limited time span to see how things developed. Apparently it didn't pan out as I am sure their sales dropped somewhat once they switched over. That alone would be very telling. I am sure their deal probably said something to the effect of "If we don't sell xxx number of units or make xxx dollars in these quarters, the deal is off".

[D.R. Payne]

Paramount just issued a press release denying the rumour, though the words "for now" did appear.

[GlocksRock]

And Microsoft denied that they would ever put a HD DVD drive in the 360, and it looks like their new XBOX 360 Ultimate will have one.... I love how we constantly hear companies deny things, only to turn around and do what they just said they wouldn't.

[j_garcia]

Well now that everyone already bought a new one to play Halo, who is going to buy an Ultimate?

[GlocksRock]

Well now that everyone already bought a new one to play Halo, who is going to buy an Ultimate?

Nobody now that HD DVD is dead, no sense in buying it since MS will not put games out on HD DVD since nobody's xbox could play them, except for those that bought an Ultimate. And I wouldn't have any use for it's other extras either, and I'm sure you will be able to buy the huge hard drive separately if you really needed it, and I keep mine hard wired, so no need for an Ultimate 360 for me... My elite will do me just fine.

[Duffinator]

I am sure Paramount also sees the writing on the wall and with recession looming in the US, they know the market will be too tight to be part of a format war, especially one that isn't looking so good on the side they've chosen right now. Their only hope for pushing the technology is to all work together to supplant DVD and that will take a lot longer than the format war was going to last regardless.Excellent point.

[j_garcia]

Apparently, Microsoft says they aren't counting out including Blu-ray support... :

Xbox video gaming unit still fully backs Toshiba Corp's (6502.T) HD-DVD high-definition DVD format but could consider supporting Sony Corp's (6758.T) rival Blu-ray technology should consumers want it, an executive said on Tuesday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080108/tc_nm/show_xbox_dc_1

I read that HD DVD was not ready when MS was pushing to get the 360 to market which is why it was not included; sounds like that may have paid off for them long term, though it also wouldn't surprise me that they also didn't want it to be as big of a factor in the console since a format war was inevitable.

[mike c]

so if BD wins ... will dual format players stay or die as well? cause that would suck for those who own lots of HD DVD's!

[j_garcia]

That would be the assumption. No reason to make a dual format player (or a stand alone for that matter), just as there would be no reason for MS to build the "Ultimate" 360 with an HD DVD drive internal, as both just increase for a format that may not survive.

[aberkowitz]

That would be the assumption. No reason to make a dual format player (or a stand alone for that matter), just as there would be no reason for MS to build the "Ultimate" 360 with an HD DVD drive internal, as both just increase for a format that may not survive.

That really sucks for Samsung. I think the BD UP-5000 would have sold like gangbusters (among the early adopters) b/c it was a great hedge for not a lot of money.

[GlocksRock]

Apparently, Microsoft says they aren't counting out including Blu-ray support... :



http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080108/tc_nm/show_xbox_dc_1

I read that HD DVD was not ready when MS was pushing to get the 360 to market which is why it was not included; sounds like that may have paid off for them long term, though it also wouldn't surprise me that they also didn't want it to be as big of a factor in the console since a format war was inevitable.

I know HD DVD wasn't ready when the 360 was released, but MS also said they didn't want to force customers to buy something they didn't really need either. Leaving that drive out also kept the cost down, but at the same time it could possibly have helped them win the format war. I really believe one of the main reasons Blu ray has done so well is because of the PS3 having a built in drive, regardless of the surveys that say close to half of the people who own one don't know that it can play blu ray discs.

[aberkowitz]

I know HD DVD wasn't ready when the 360 was released, but MS also said they didn't want to force customers to buy something they didn't really need either. Leaving that drive out also kept the cost down, but at the same time it could possibly have helped them win the format war. I really believe one of the main reasons Blu ray has done so well is because of the PS3 having a built in drive, regardless of the surveys that say close to half of the people who own one don't know that it can play blu ray discs.

This was the exact argument that the WSJ article I posted the other day made... maybe if Toshiba decides to share the cost burden of adding on the drives (which probably works out to about the same amount they lost by selling the A2 & A3 at deep discounts) then they get an even bigger headstart on Blu Ray. All speculation at this point....

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Looks like they are scouring their contracts for the get out clauses.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/paramount-following-warner-out-the-hd-dvd-door/

This could be great news for all those Transformers fans that want the movie released on Blu Ray with TrueHD or PCM audio!

That would be TOO GOOD!

Man, I would love to buy Transformers BD!

[Warpdrv]

And yet another reason why playing the waiting game works out best...

Never felt the need to upgrade to HD players yet..

[j_garcia]

And yet another reason why playing the waiting game works out best...

Never felt the need to upgrade to HD players yet..

And now you do?:p

[Duffinator]

And now you do?:pExactly what I was thinking. ;)

[Warpdrv]

And now you do?:p


Not sure I understand the question....

That I have actually played the waiting game on anything? :D

or

Played the waiting game on High Def Players..?

[D.R. Payne]

This site has proven to be fairly reliable:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/index.html#mytwocents

[stratman]

No one has said the "war" is over, its still premature. Remember a few months back everyone said Blu-ray was dead because Wal Mart was ordering 2 million "cheap" HD DVD players all based on rumours? Is this a hard blow for Toshiba's camp? Without a doubt yes, but more telling is what the economy will do in six to eight months, Blu-ray might "win" only to be phased out by a stagnant, recession riddled economy. One thing's for sure, BD player prices will tumble drastically, but remember that HD dvd formats are a niche market only, with most Americans coming to grasp with HD television now. Dual disc players will still be viable, Samsung and LG (in case HD DVD fully tanks) will produce the players to play BD only, drop prices and give them new badges. But this will all be moot if the mainstream doesn't adopt due to the economic chill. We'll see.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

http://www.dvdtown.com/news/universal-dropping-hd-dvd-exclusivity/5099

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/HBO/Industry_Trends/HBO_Confirms_Switch_to_Blu-ray_Exclusivity/1357

[stratman]

It looks like the ship is sinking and the rats are jumping, I wouldn't be surprised if Toshiba announces a BD player in the not too distant future! :D

[GlocksRock]

I hope so... the more studios that drop HD DVD the better... let's end the war and move on. I would love to see some better competition in the blu ray stand alone player market to help further drive down the prices.

[stratman]

I hope so... the more studios that drop HD DVD the better... let's end the war and move on. I would love to see some better competition in the blu ray stand alone player market to help further drive down the prices.

Remember only one chapter of the "war" would technically be over, the real impetus of the HD dvd format is to replace the SD dvd. That is going to prove much harder than beating HD DVD and that coupled with a chilled economy can be disastrous to BD, relegating to the level of the LD.

[GlocksRock]

very true... but at the same time, blu ray has a better chance of overtaking SD DVD if the cost of the players, and the movies themselves are much lower. Price is probably the single most important aspect to the average consumer. My parents for instance would be willing to pay $100 for a hd player, they don't really care so much about blu ray or hd dvd, or the new audio formats, as they don't have the gear to support it. But they do have a Mirage/Denon 5.1 setup and a 42" HD display, and would love to have HD movies, but they aren't willing to pay a lot of money for it. With more and more people getting high def tv's every month, and with more HD programming available via satellite and cable, people are going to see how much better it really is, and will soon want the same level of picture quality on their dvd's, so if there is one format to choose from, and the price is right, it will be very easy for them to go out and pick up a new blu ray player, and they probably won't care if the player supports dts-hd or if it is capable of bitstreaming audio... they just want good picture quality and will be plenty happy with a core dts or dolby digital audio track. The economy will at some point get better and when it does people will be out to spend more money once again, and with a clear format war winner, there will be no confusion. As I said before, the only thing I can see being a viable replacement for optical discs at any time in the near future is downloadable content, and as was pointed out in a previous post by myself, America doesn't have the infrastructure to support that, so I think we will be using discs as our media for several years to come.

[j_garcia]

HD TVs are pretty much required going forward. Yes, they will have the little boxes so that you can still use an analog set, but for the most part, there will be a lot of people upgrading by the end of this year. Of those people, I think a good percentage will be interested in upgrading to an HD player. Physical media will be around for at least another 5 years or so, but it WILL go away eventually.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It looks like the ship is sinking and the rats are jumping, I wouldn't be surprised if Toshiba announces a BD player in the not too distant future! :D

That would be pretty funny to see Toshiba come out with a BD player!:D

I can see all the HD DVD players and Samsung & LG Combo players' prices dropping already!

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...the real impetus of the HD dvd format is to replace the SD dvd.



Is that really necessary, though?

I mean VCRs are still around, but that never hurt SD DVD.

I can see SD DVD recorders (replacing VCRs) coexisting with Blu-ray.:D

[GlocksRock]

Is that really necessary, though?

I mean VCRs are still around, but that never hurt SD DVD.

I can see SD DVD recorders (replacing VCRs) coexisting with Blu-ray.:D

Try going to a video store and renting a movie on VHS.

Pretty much everyone uses DVR's instead of VCR's. I still have mine hooked up just in case, but it serves more of a purpose as a clock than anything else right now.

[Bluesmoke]

They need to push the scratch resisting Durabis stuff on Blu-ray. This is a huge selling point for Netflix, Blockbuster online etc. If they can improve the coating to the point where almost nothing will damage it, it will be a big boost to sway rentals.

[stratman]

Is that really necessary, though?

I mean VCRs are still around, but that never hurt SD DVD.

I can see SD DVD recorders (replacing VCRs) coexisting with Blu-ray.:D

Necessary? I'd say no. But that's what the developers have in mind and that's their goal. HD dvd format began as an amalgamation of different philosophies, the best PQ, interoperation, best DRM implementation, content management and control, all these not possible with SD dvd but in their opinion attainable with a stricter format. I would love to see a flash card replace HD dvd. Panasonic just announced a 32 gig SD card coming out and a 64 gig in the very near future, if this is not vaporware it could be a great replacement media.

[aberkowitz]

Try going to a video store and renting a movie on VHS.

Pretty much everyone uses DVR's instead of VCR's. I still have mine hooked up just in case, but it serves more of a purpose as a clock than anything else right now.

So you're one of the 99 people in the world who figured it out??? :)

It took 6-7 years until DVD started surpassing VHS in total number of units old, and in that case you were talking about a major technology change that didn't require a user to go out and purchase a brand new TV and new expensive (if you're J6P who doesn't know about monoprice or blue jeans) cables in order to properly use. While DVD players were expensive, they would work with your standard Composite RCA calbes.

I don't see BD replacing SD anytime soon- I can see them living in harmony for about 4-5 years until either A) a new format blows both out of the water (e.g. digital downloads) or B) BD gets cheap enough that it turns into the current VHS/SD model.

[GlocksRock]

HDMI cables are so cheap, that manufacturers could include them with their players, just like everyone includes RCA cables with their gear. But you are correct about them living in harmony for a while, I just wish the more local stores besides blockbuster carried blu ray, and even their selection isn't that great and they only have 1 copy of each title. Hopefully they will start to add more and more as HD DVD slowly dies off.

[j_garcia]

I haven't had a VCR in my system for almost 10 years now.

It took DVD a while to catch hold because there weren't enough movies available in the first few years and that was because not a lot of places were capable of producing them. That isn't an issue now and title selection is already fairly decent just one year in. When I bought my DVD player there were maybe 100 titles available, if that, and almost no place to buy them, and practically no place to rent them (there were two in my area suprisingly). Media won't be slow to come out, especially if there is only one format. The issue lies in the fact that the average consumer is already happy with DVD, as someone mentioned, and while the difference is certainly there, it isn't the same light year jump that DVD is over VHS (at least not to the point that the average consumer will care enough...)

Oppo includes a decent HDMI cable with their players.

[aberkowitz]

HDMI cables are so cheap, that manufacturers could include them with their players, just like everyone includes RCA cables with their gear.

That would be an incredibly smart idea... it would also be smart for them to be bundled with HDTVs as well. I could imagine companies like Monster and AudioQuest having major objections :D.

[mtrycrafts]

I could imagine companies like Monster and AudioQuest having major objections :D.

That could be a bigger incentive for some companies to beat back the fluff;)

[Buckeye_Nut]

so if BD wins ... will dual format players stay or die as well? cause that would suck for those who own lots of HD DVD's!

I suspect that the select few who spent millions developing the dual format player are now kicking themselves.

[GlocksRock]

That would be an incredibly smart idea... it would also be smart for them to be bundled with HDTVs as well. I could imagine companies like Monster and AudioQuest having major objections :D.

I hope those companies would object, maybe they could lower their prices then... I hate that places like Best Buy make huge profits on cables, I've seen ridiculous markup on some cables. I saw a standard SATA drive cable sell for $20 at best buy, this cable probably only cost pennies to make, and should sell for no more than $5, but they are making money hand over fist on cables, and it makes me sick. I just wish I could stand at the cables section of the stores and advise people to buy their cables from places like blue jeans, and monoprice instead of giving their hard earned money to these evil corporations.

I'm sure nobody would object to paying an extra $5 or $10 on their HDTV to have a decent HDMI cable included, which could save them a lot of money in the long run.

[Buckeye_Nut]

I hope those companies would object, maybe they could lower their prices then... I hate that places like Best Buy make huge profits on cables, I've seen ridiculous markup on some cables. I saw a standard SATA drive cable sell for $20 at best buy, this cable probably only cost pennies to make, and should sell for no more than $5, but they are making money hand over fist on cables, and it makes me sick. I just wish I could stand at the cables section of the stores and advise people to buy their cables from places like blue jeans, and monoprice instead of giving their hard earned money to these evil corporations.

I'm sure nobody would object to paying an extra $5 or $10 on their HDTV to have a decent HDMI cable included, which could save them a lot of money in the long run.Agreed...... I've been known to buy cables at BB.(if only for convenience reasons)
IE....I buy "X" component today, I don't really want to wait for cables to arrive by mail. And no...my purchases aren't planned that far in advance. When I make up my mind, I pull the trigger pretty quick...LOL

After making a recent return (my HD-A3 player), I might consider buying cables at BB AND from a bJeans or Mono online. The BB cables will serve as a stop-gap until the package arrives by mail....and then I will return them.

[GlocksRock]

I bought the $20 SATA cable from them only because the cable I got on ebay was defective, and I wanted to get my new hard drive up and running without having to wait to return the defective cable, and order a new one. So I just used my $25 visa gift card on a $20 cable... I didn't have patience, and at the time I didn't know about monoprice, or firefold.com which is local to me and I could have just driven over and got the cable for super cheap. But as long as I can return the cable when my online ones arive, I would do the same thing.

[aberkowitz]

I might consider buying cables at BB AND from a bJeans or Mono online. The BB cables will serve as a stop-gap until the package arrives by mail....and then I will return them.

I've done that before, returns at BB are about as easy as it gets. The nice things about mono is that they ship really quickly.

[stratman]

Give kudos to Panny on this one, they include hdmi cable with their DVD players and their receiver, in my case both my receiver and player contained one 3 foot cable.:)

[GlocksRock]

I hope more companies will start doing that in the future, and I expect they will as most everything is going the way of HDMI now. Most new tv's have at least 2 or 3 HDMI inputs on them.

[aberkowitz]

I hope more companies will start doing that in the future, and I expect they will as most everything is going the way of HDMI now. Most new tv's have at least 2 or 3 HDMI inputs on them.

"C'mon fellas, it's all ball bearings these days." :D