Need help deciding which TV to buy

[Kilim]

So I am currently shopping around for my very 1st LCD TV.
Stumbled upon this website and was hoping to get some info from knowledgeable people.

After reading some, I decided for a LCD TV for my HTPC System in my livingroom instead of a Plasma.
My livingroom is 16' L x 13' W.
I would be watching Movies, playing video games and also doing soem PC stuff like web browsing/etc with it.
I have a good sound system for me so the TV Sound is not important for me.

I was thinking soemthing of 40"-50" LCD TV and need help in getting the right one.
I have a large window on 1 side of my livingroom that brightens up the whole room (window is 5' H x 8' L)
The window is on the right side of my livingroom.

I guess my livingroom getting somewhat bright during the day time (have shades but doesn't fully darken the room) makes me iffy on glossy screens but would like info on both glossy and matte screens.
(I own both a Matte and glossy 17" LCD Monitors for my PC's already but unsure on how the difference would be on such a bigger screen)

So far I was mainly debating on:
Samsung 65F and 61F Series.
Main issue I have with those are to get the glossy or the Matte one considering my livingroom setup.


Other ones I was looking at are:

Samsung 71F/69F and 81F Series

Sony BR4 series
Sony V3000 series
Sony W3000 series

Toshiba LX177 Regza
Toshiba HL167 Regza



I am very new to the LCD TV and this would be my very 1st one.
Don't know much about them so hoping for soem help here on which to get and where to get them if possible.

I am happy with my Audio and just need a good LCD TV.

Getting Pros/Cons of the what I listed above and possibly other alternatives would be greatly appreciated.

[solomr2]

Well, I have been doing a lot of research lately also on similar sets and I'm probably driving myself a little crazy in the process.

Here are my thoughts on the sets I have been looking at and am currently having difficulty deciding between;

Samsung FP-T5084 50" 1080p Plasma;
This TV seems to have everything; great HD picture, great blacks, high resolution, good connectivity and so on. My biggest concerns are the silly looking large plastic bezel and the reflectivity of the screen. But for HD movie performance, it's as good as I've ever seen. The only better picture I have seen is on the $5000 Pioneer.

Panasonic TH-50PZ700U 50" 1080p Plasma;
This is Panasonic's entry into the high-res 1080p plasma field. Great HD picture, great blacks, only 2 HDMI. I really can't tell much difference between this and the Samsung in PQ, and the price of the Panny and the Samsung are basically the same at $2300.

Sony KDL-46XBR4 46" 1080p 120Hz LCD;
The newest offering from Sony is probably the best LCD on the market today. But whether it has a better picture than the above plasmas is not easily apparent to me. I haven't been able to find a shop that has this TV next to any of the other TVs I'm interested in, so I haven't been able to do direct side-by-side comparison, but from what I see the Sony is very impressive. The price is still high though, about $2700. Is it worth $400-500 more than the Plasmas? Probably not, especially since the screen is 4" smaller, but it does have a key advantage - a non reflective screen. Depending on lighting, this may be a key consideration.

Samsung LNT4671F 46" 1080p 120Hz LCD;
Another impressive LCD as far as LCDs go. But the typical oversaturated color issues are still noticable. I like this TV, but can't help noting the Plasmas have better HD movie color and PQ. I don't really notice the difference that 120Hz makes over plasma or other 60Hz panels, but I haven't really spent a lot of time evaluating it either. Priced around $2400, I still don't see why I would settle for 4" less screen realty vs. the 50" plasmas.

I have also seen the Samsung 81F LED Backlighting series, but again not side-by-side with any other TV so I couldn't really discern the differences. The 81F however does come with a very steep "coolness" upcharge for the LED feature, putting it near $4000 for 46" of screen real estate.

At this point I'm leaning towards the 2 plasmas at the top of my list. I have to go look at them again. My viewing area has a double french door directly opposite the wall the TV is going to be on, and a large window to the right as well. However, the vast majority of my use for this TV will be nighttime viewing of movie material, so I'm not too concerned about the ambient light and reflectivity issues of Plasmas.

[WmAx]

The new Panasonic plasma have some of the most burn resistant phosphors on the market. And they typically measure only 2nd to Pioneer plasmas, so far as image fidelity.

I soon need a new computer display, and right now, a 42" 1080P Panasonic plasma looks to be the ideal display for this purpose. If I had to buy one today, that is what I would go with.

-Chris

[Kilim]

I am leaning on a LCD TV vs a Plasma due to the following:


Big window on the right side of my livingroom
Use it also as a HTPC Monitor for PC Related programs/games


Right now I am torn between the Sony and Samsung LCD TVs.
trying to decide and justify what to get and what size.

My Sofa is around 9-10' from where teh TV will be and my love seat will be around 6' away.

[WmAx]

I am leaning on a LCD TV vs a Plasma due to the following:


Big window on the right side of my livingroom
Use it also as a HTPC Monitor for PC Related programs/games


Right now I am torn between the Sony and Samsung LCD TVs.
trying to decide and justify what to get and what size.

My Sofa is around 9-10' from where teh TV will be and my love seat will be around 6' away.

Well, the new Panasonic 1080P units have an anti-glare coating similar to that used on LCDs. So glare is not much of an issue with these compared to other plasmas.

As for computer use: that is my intended application. And if you also plan to use it for HT, the plasma will provide better image quality than a current-technology LCD television.

-Chris

[Kilim]

So you saying that for the most bang for the buck .... Plasma > LCD at this time for all my needs?

And which Plasma are good right now?

[WmAx]

So you saying that for the most bang for the buck .... Plasma > LCD at this time for all my needs?

And which Plasma are good right now?

Pioneer has, for the last few years, had the best measured qualities. Panasonic has almost always been 'almost' as good in terms of measurable image quality. However, Pioneer costs substantially more than Panasonic. Panasonic also has a 1st rate warranty, and they even provide you with a loaner unit if they have to take off your panel to repair it. I already purchased one Panasonic plasma. Now I am almost ready to buy another. Note: You need to use HDMI input to Panasonic plasma panels to get use of full 1080 resolution.

-Chris

[Kilim]

Well, I just came back from Best Buy.
I don't know what it is but I am really leaning towards LCDs.

Saw the Sony V2500/V3000/W3000 and Samsung 61F/66F/71F all on the same feed.
(I didn't get to see a Sony XBR4 so was not able to do a full compare, but seen 1 at CC and it is a nice picture and similar to the Samsung 71F when I did saw it.)
I really did not notice any major difference in picture quality up close and personal.
1 thing I did notice is that the Sony somehow have more brighter colors.
I read soemwhere about some special feature in the Sony and that this may be what caused this.

1 thing I am VERY sure of is that I HATE the Glossy screens.
All of them are fine when there is any picture in the screen BUT once a Black is shown, its insta-mirror reflection.

Considering my livingroom beign well-lit, non-glossy/matte screens are for me.

For the price, Samsung seems to be the winner for me and the 61F is what I am leaning towards to.

But would liek to know, what is the difference between the following:

Samsung 61F
Samsung 66F
Samsung 69F
Sony v3000
Sony w3000
Sony XBR4


Right now, for the price, I am leaning towards the Samsung 61F but would like to know why I may want to chose the other Matte Screen LCD TV I listed.
Picture qualitywise, they all looked about the same to me ...

[Romulus]

I went with the 4061f and it seems you are thinking about the same things I was when shopping around.

I am quite picky when it comes to picture quality, and I am very satisfied with the 61.

[Kilim]

Thing that gets me is that the Sony XBR4 and Samsung 71F models are mostly shown on the floor playing on a Blu-Ray feed.
Was wondering if you can possibly get a near similar picture if you play Blu-Ray on the 61F.

When I went to this 2nd BB store, the salesman there actually stated get the 61F if I want the "Best" Matte Screen LCD.
Of course he also said the difference between the 61F vs the 71F is the glossy screen and that the 71F has 120mhz processor and the 61F has 24mhz.
Isnt the 120hz the refresh rate and that teh main difference between the 2 are the glossy screen and 60hz vs 120hz refresh?

Maybe I am not very well educated on TV but I didn't see any major picture quality diffrence except when I saw the Blu-ray feed.
but its not a good comparison as I didn't see a 61F on Blu-Ray feed for a proper comparison.
(Also, does the 61F have HDMI 1.3?)

[evilkat]

If u're really sure on getting an LCD, don't forget to compare their black-levels. At the time I was looking around, plasmas won that fight hands down. I've got windows all over my apartment, and the Panny Plasma I have has not really given me issues with reflections...(except when it's off ofcourse :)

[Kilim]

Well, I was also looking at some Plasmas on display and I really did not see much of a difference either on Picture Quality of LCD vs Plasma there.

[solomr2]

This is a common problem I have with reviewers, especially on CNET; they review a 1080p set, but they base their test results on the set's 1080i processing. The obvious reason for this method of testing is so they can compare the set side-by-side with other tv sets (including those that are not 1080p) from the same source signal. But in my opinion this is bogus.

The local Magnolia in my area has a display area where they pipe through a 1080i signal to all the sets around the room, but again, no 1080p signal. Ask them to put out a 1080p signal and they can't do it for one reason or another. This makes comparing the sets in their native resolution very challenging. If you're lucky they may have your desired set in one of the special viewing rooms where they have a BD player connected, but then you can't see it side by side with other sets, so you're back to square one.

Do you ever get the feeling that there is some kind of conspiracy... why else would it be so difficult to view TVs in their native 1080p resolution side by side with other comparable sets?

[solomr2]

Well, I was also looking at some Plasmas on display and I really did not see much of a difference either on Picture Quality of LCD vs Plasma there.

From my experience, most plasmas seem to have a better black level and more natural color tones, but LCDs tend to have brighter displays. The effect on various source material is the LCDs can often look like they have more pop, particularly in a brightly lit store display. But what I have also noticed is the plasmas tend to have better off-center angled viewing. Then you have the whole reflectivity thing. Aside from Samsung, which makes highly reflective LCD screens, the LCDs tend to stand up better in bright rooms.

Unfortunately, there is no clear winner between these technologies. It all depends on what you watch and where you watch. For example, for lights out HD movie material, I prefer Plasma over LCD, but this is only one type of material I watch. For sports, SD or low-res DVD (480p) you have a lot of other factors that come into play. Often, it comes down to compromises, so you have to sacrifice something to the best of something else.

[Kilim]

I am pretty much decided now that I am getting the Samsung 4061F.
Its a good size for my Livingroom and nice price as well.
Gives me enough cash to buy a Entertainment Center Case for it.

Right now I am going to buy the Case 1st soemtime this week and get the 61F on Black Friday in a couple of weeks.

At this time I can get the 4061F at $1331 after a 10% discount and will pick it up instead of delivery at CC.
Hoping that come Black Friday it will be reduced even more

And oh yeah.
My family love to watch DvD Movies in our livingroom.
Also have my sons Wii in it for gaming.
And with my HTPC Hook up to it, am planning to do some web surfing and PC gaming on it also.
From what I read, LCD TV is best for my needs and why I am choosing LCD vs Plasma.
My Livingroom is also bright during the day so a Matte Screen LCD would be best for me I think.

[Kilim]

Oh question.

Is it worth it to buy an Extended Warranty for a LCD TV?
Planning to use my Visa card to buy it in a few days.

[Romulus]

Oh question.

Is it worth it to buy an Extended Warranty for a LCD TV?
Planning to use my Visa card to buy it in a few days.

I would not get the warranty... I have faith in samsung. You will find opinions are split 50/50 on this.

One of my big selling points for the 61 vs the newer 71 was the matte screen, and boy am I glad I went with it. I sometimes eat dinner while watching a movie, so I keep a light on beside me. If I had a glossy screen, I'd get a nice big reflection in the middle of the screen of a lamp. Not so with the matte 61f :D

I think you will be pleased with this tv, especially at that price. I watched the 61f fall from $2400 in July to 1500 in October, which is when I purchased.

[Kilim]

Thats what I felt also.
Even in the barely lit BB/CC showroom, I was noticing the glare on the Glossy screens.
That just sold me that Matte screen is for me for screen type.

I was reading about some TBE issues on the 71F and unsure if its fixed on the 69F.
Considering they are newer models, I decided on the cheaper 61F.
Like I said before, when running on the same feed ... I really did not notice a difference in Picture quality.

The Samsung 61F is around $1450 now at CC and I can get a 10% Discount when I buy it before the year is over via the AAA Membership Discount.
I am thinking of waiting to buy it on Black Friday in hope of a lil more price Drop + 10% Discount.

Right now I am trying to get rid of my old Entertainment center case and buying a new one.
Already found a good Entertainment center that can hold my soon to be new LCD TV for $199.
(Think it can hold upto 47" W)
Just have to get rid of the old one so I can have room in my small apartment.

I am hoping that the 40" will suffice me for now when I use it in my livingroom.
TV will be around 6' from the Loveseat and around 11-12' from the sofa.
Was debating on the 46" but not sure it will be worth the extra $500 for 6" more diagonally (3" across)
Any1 know if 40" will be good for a room my size?
But of course if for some crazy reason when Black Friday comes and a 4661F is not too much away from my budget ... I may just get that.
I really wanted to get soemthing <$2000 and even if possible <$1500 and the 4061F seems to be it for now.
But would getting a 46" vs a 40" really make a difference for me and my viewing situation?

If wondering why I chosing CC to buy it from.
Well ... I can pick it up at CC and thinking that if any issues arise within a few months, I can just drive there.
Also saves me any possible shipping cost online and it seems to be the cheapest deal for me with discount included.

[jliedeka]

Right now I am torn between the Sony and Samsung LCD TVs.
trying to decide and justify what to get and what size.

I'm pretty sure that Sony's LCD screens are made by Samsung so the difference would be in the control circuitry. I don't think you could go wrong either way.

Jim

[Kilim]

Decided to get the 61F come Black Friday.

Iffy on the 69F due to TBE Issues I read about and didn't read much complaints on the 61F.
4061F is around $1400 at Amazon and the 4661F around $1800.
Hoping some price drop to near $1500 for teh 4661F on the 23rd :D
/prays

[annunaki]

I read this entire thread. The one big glaring error I see in your judgement is that you are basing your picture quality judgments off of the way the tvs are set up in the show room. None of them are calibrated and/or are on an even playing field. Only when televisons are calibrated to an ntsc standard for brightness, contrast, color, tint, and shrpness do their true strenghths and weaknesses show. In the current Home Theater Magazine they review the XBR4 along with a Samsung unit (unsure of the model), a Toshiba, and a Phillips. The Toshiba tested best for performance out of the group but the reviewer stated he would not purchase any of the sets. Though that is personal preference I agree. I have not seen an LCD that out does a good plasma (Panasonic & Pioneer) in picture quality or black level.

In the same issue they review the new Pioneer Elite Kuro Plasma (1080p) and it had some of the best black levels of any set ever reviewed regardless of orientation (CRT, LCD, Plasma, DLP, etc.). The same set can be had in a 720p version for about $3,500 and if you are sitting farther than 6.5-8 feet away the 1080p won't matter anyway. Although in your instance, using it as a computer monitor you would most likely want the 1080p. That being the case, I would do the Panasonic 50" 1080p display with the matte fiish screen. It will give you better performace overall for movies and with their high resistance to burn in should have no issues for computer use. Not to mention their warranty and out of warranty service procedures are top notch should they ever be needed.

You should be well suited in waiting for Black Friday specials as there should be some good ones from what I hear.

[Kilim]

I read this entire thread. The one big glaring error I see in your judgement is that you are basing your picture quality judgments off of the way the tvs are set up in the show room. None of them are calibrated and/or are on an even playing field. Only when televisons are calibrated to an ntsc standard for brightness, contrast, color, tint, and shrpness do their true strenghths and weaknesses show. In the current Home Theater Magazine they review the XBR4 along with a Samsung unit (unsure of the model), a Toshiba, and a Phillips. The Toshiba tested best for performance out of the group but the reviewer stated he would not purchase any of the sets. Though that is personal preference I agree. I have not seen an LCD that out does a good plasma (Panasonic & Pioneer) in picture quality or black level.

In the same issue they review the new Pioneer Elite Kuro Plasma (1080p) and it had some of the best black levels of any set ever reviewed regardless of orientation (CRT, LCD, Plasma, DLP, etc.). The same set can be had in a 720p version for about $3,500 and if you are sitting farther than 6.5-8 feet away the 1080p won't matter anyway. Although in your instance, using it as a computer monitor you would most likely want the 1080p. That being the case, I would do the Panasonic 50" 1080p display with the matte fiish screen. It will give you better performace overall for movies and with their high resistance to burn in should have no issues for computer use. Not to mention their warranty and out of warranty service procedures are top notch should they ever be needed.

You should be well suited in waiting for Black Friday specials as there should be some good ones from what I hear.

Problem with that suggestion is that will cost me around ~$3500 for the Panasonic PDP-5010FD
Most I was planning to stretch my budget is 2k and less if possible.
After looking around, can get the 40" Samsung 4661F for ~$1350 at Amazon or $1700 for the 46" Samsung 4661F.
I can even get the Sony XBR4 for less, even the XBR5.

I am not a Video afficionado/expert so can't really tell much of a difference.
I guess that may help my cause as I won't be seeing the diffrences as much as I am not trained to see them.

But thanks for the input anyways and would like to know the link to that review if possible.

I got a whole week to change my mind and learn more about HDTV :D

[Kilim]

I just saw a price drop for the Samsung 4061F and its now $1299!

[Romulus]

I just saw a price drop for the Samsung 4061F and its now $1299!

Is that at amazon? You may want to check your local store. The place I purchased mine at just dropped it to 1479. From amazon it should be around 1400 said and done (shipping, etc). Anywhere around 1500 is a very good buy with this tv.. I am completely happy with mine.

Of the pioneers.. Of course there is always a tv that performs better. And you know what, if you buy that one then you will lose several thousand bucks when it depreciates next quarter and the replacement comes out.. THEN what do you do since there is an even nicer set out? Chasing the *best* is a dangerous venture.

[annunaki]

I just reread the review. Both reviewers suggested that the Toshiba 52LX177 was the winner of the 4 way "battle". Although one reviewer noted that if he "HAD" to pick one it would be the Toshiba but he would rather not pick any of them. The Samsung was a 71 model. Both reviewers noted that the 120hz implementation on the Sony and the Samsung was questionable and both rather preferred to leave it off. You could look into the Toshiba 42LX177 if you must do LCD.

The Panasonic TH-50PZ77U can be had for around $2100.00 at Circuit City. The 42" TH-42PZ77U can be had for $1,299.00 at Circuit city!
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/attachment.do?OID=191836&cmCatID=SITE%20NAVIGATION%20>%20TV%20&%20HOME%20ENTERTAINMENT%20>%20TELEVISIONS%20>%20LCD%20&%20PLASMA%20TVS

Either of these sets will outperform the LCD's for picture quality. If I had to do an LCD at this time (gun to my head) I would do a Sharp Aquos or a Toshiba. They have received the best reviews from what I have seen for LCD's.




Current issue reviews are not posted on the website until the next month's issue is released unfortunately. You would have to go pick up the current issue or read it in the store.

[Kilim]

I just reread the review. Both reviewers suggested that the Toshiba 52LX177 was the winner of the 4 way "battle". Although one reviewer noted that if he "HAD" to pick one it would be the Toshiba but he would rather not pick any of them. The Samsung was a 71 model. Both reviewers noted that the 120hz implementation on the Sony and the Samsung was questionable and both rather preferred to leave it off. You could look into the Toshiba 42LX177 if you must do LCD.

The Panasonic TH-50PZ77U can be had for around $2100.00 at Circuit City. The 42" TH-42PZ77U can be had for $1,299.00 at Circuit city!
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/attachment.do?OID=191836&cmCatID=SITE%20NAVIGATION%20>%20TV%20&%20HOME%20ENTERTAINMENT%20>%20TELEVISIONS%20>%20LCD%20&%20PLASMA%20TVS

Either of these sets will outperform the LCD's for picture quality. If I had to do an LCD at this time (gun to my head) I would do a Sharp Aquos or a Toshiba. They have received the best reviews from what I have seen for LCD's.




Current issue reviews are not posted on the website until the next month's issue is released unfortunately. You would have to go pick up the current issue or read it in the store.
Thanks for those info.
But I think I am kinda set on LCD.

From what I read on what I am going to use it for and where and LCD would be best for me.
At least that is what I keep reading so far.
(HDTV, DvD Movies - possibly HD-DvD or upconverted, Console Games, PC games, Internet, PC programs, well lit room)

This is 1 of trhe reviews I read: http://www.consumersearch.com/www/electronics/hdtv/index.html

Only the Panasonic TH-42PZ77U is comparitive to the price minus 1 HDMI input.

[annunaki]

With a high quality receiver with HDMI inputs, the number of inputs on a tv is not something I really consider much.

Remember that the Sony model they are reviewing there is old. The current XBR4 is the one that was rated marginally by Home Theater. The Samsung did about the same or perhaps a tick better than the Sony XBR4.

What are the things about plasma you don't like or are afraid of?

-Burn in is a non-issue with the newer Panasonic plasmas

-The number of HDMI inputs are a non issue if you will be using a high quality avr with HDMI switching

-The model I listed has a matte finish on the screen so it will have Anti-Glare just like an LCD.

-It is a 1080p model

-Picture quality will be superior for movies and HDTV viewing

-No issues with fast motion on the screen.



Thanks for those info.
But I think I am kinda set on LCD.

From what I read on what I am going to use it for and where and LCD would be best for me.
At least that is what I keep reading so far.
(HDTV, DvD Movies - possibly HD-DvD or upconverted, Console Games, PC games, Internet, PC programs, well lit room)

This is 1 of trhe reviews I read: http://www.consumersearch.com/www/electronics/hdtv/index.html

Only the Panasonic TH-42PZ77U is comparitive to the price minus 1 HDMI input.

[Kilim]

My main issue was the possible Glare that I have seen in glossy screens.
I did notice that the Samsung 71F seems to be slightly better than the 61F when I saw it but hated the glare ... was thinking the 69F would solve that.

I guess I can check again this weekend on the Plasma TV a bit more to compare them with LCD.

What would you say is teh best fitting my budget?
The Panasonic TH-42PZ77U 42"?
What would be a step up for this model just for FYI?

If its possible to list a few Plasma models that are good to choose from from average to best?
I am going to buy the TV on Black Friday so I may be able to buy a wider and possibly better model if the price is right :D

BTW, thanks for your time answering my questions if I have not said so yet to everyone :D
Its a big investment and don't want to make a mistake.

[annunaki]

The step up from the 42PZ77U is the 42PZ700U. I believe the 77U has a matte finish on the sceen meaning it is not glossy like the LCD sets. The 700U has an Anti-Reflective coating but I am not sure if it has a matte finish. You can check them out and see for yourself. It would be best. I will be stopping in at a Circuit City on Monday so I can take a look then too.

[Romulus]

I'm not familiar with the screen finishes of new plasmas.. I'm sure they come in a variety of flavors, though.

My 61f reflects very little. In fact, you cannot see any reflected objects on the screen, period. The only time it does reflect anything is if you turn a lamp on infront of it.

Plasma's are great for picture quality! I had a 42px60u (predecessor to the 77u) and it was wonderful. One of the other small selling points of lcd's is that they weigh about 2/3s of what comparable plasmas do. Of course, I'm a single guy and move every few years, so this was important to me. I hung my 42 panny on my wall by myself and it wasn't very fun.

I'm sure you will be happy with any purchase you make since you're not looking at the base level displays..

[Kilim]

The step up from the 42PZ77U is the 42PZ700U. I believe the 77U has a matte finish on the sceen meaning it is not glossy like the LCD sets. The 700U has an Anti-Reflective coating but I am not sure if it has a matte finish. You can check them out and see for yourself. It would be best. I will be stopping in at a Circuit City on Monday so I can take a look then too.

Hmm, I was just checking teh Panasonic website.
This is what I saw as main difference between teh 2.
Panasonic 77U vs 700U Comparison (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelComparisonResults?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&catGroupId=75003&surfCategory=Plasma%20HDTVs&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702&items=126557|177931|)
77U

Anti-Glare Filter
10,000:1 Contrast Ratio
No PC Input

700U

Anti-reflective Coating
5000:1 Contrast Ratio
Have PC Input
$200 more than the 77U


Shouldn't, technically speaking, the cheaper model be better somehow?

Also any other models a step up or 2?

[Kilim]

Well, I just came back from BB as I had time to check today and this is what I found.

Some reason, the Panasonic and Pioneer (5010) Plasmas they have in display soemhow look darker compared to the LCDs.
Its as if the Contrast/brightness settings needs to be increased.
Also, I could still see some glare issues with the Panasonics even with their Anti-Glare coating :(

I really did not see much of a difference in PQ with the other LCD I was looking at while comparing it to the Plasmas (which I stated looked darker to me)

Also was comparing the 40" 46" and 50" from where I would be farthest from it in my livingroom and also did not see a big difference in viewing pleasure.

Maybe Its because I am an amateur at this and that could possibly be a hidden Godsend.

[gus6464]

Well, I just came back from BB as I had time to check today and this is what I found.

Some reason, the Panasonic and Pioneer (5010) Plasmas they have in display soemhow look darker compared to the LCDs.
Its as if the Contrast/brightness settings needs to be increased.
Also, I could still see some glare issues with the Panasonics even with their Anti-Glare coating :(

I really did not see much of a difference in PQ with the other LCD I was looking at while comparing it to the Plasmas (which I stated looked darker to me)

Also was comparing the 40" 46" and 50" from where I would be farthest from it in my livingroom and also did not see a big difference in viewing pleasure.

Maybe Its because I am an amateur at this and that could possibly be a hidden Godsend.

Do not go by what you see at the store. This is my experience with LCD and Plasma.

I originally bought a 42" 1080p LCD and let me tell you that once you take it home it is a whole different story. All the TVs at the store have the brightness and contrast setting to max to show that pop. Once I hooked the thing up I sat around 10ft from the screen and the brightness was hurting my eyes after watching tv for a while. Plus running the TV at that high lv of brightness all the time will prematurely kill your set. Once I dialed it down to about 40 brightness and 50 contrast it looked a LOT better, much more natural.

So anyways the TV broke after 2 months so we had to go for another one and I decided to go for a plasma because of these reasons: For one, off angle viewing was horrendous, and I mean horrendous on the LCD. And the off angle didn't have to be that big for the PQ to degrade. Another main thing I noticed was motion blur when watching NFL in HD. At first it wasn't that bad but it became more and more noticeable after a while.

I ended up going for a Panasonic 50" 768p set instead of another LCD and now I will never go back to LCD (at least for the time being). Plasma is superior in PQ, off angle viewing (same as CRT), black levels, etc. I also play a lot of games and haven't experience any burn-in, although I have had noticed some image retention from pausing the dvr but it goes away in like 30 secs.

As far as the screen is concerned I do have one with a glass so it reflects light but I can control the lighting in my living room very easily so it is not a problem. Of course if you cannot control it then it will bothersome. And that is really the only reason I would choose an LCD over the Plasma. And even then I would go with a DLP or LCoS over an LCD (Mitsubishi or Sony).

[annunaki]

Kilim,

As suggested you really cannot go by what you see in the store. With an LCD next to a Plasma the Plasma will look darker as they do not have the same amount of light output. However, as stated by gus6464, once in the home the LCD light output can be bothersome in low light conditions. The Panasonic you want to look at is the TH-42PZ77U which has a very similar screen to an LCD. You need to make sure you are looking at the 42PZ77U and not the 42PX77U the PZ is 1080p and has the matte finish on the screen. It should not have any glare issues just like an LCD.

[Kilim]

Just saw both the Panasonic PZ700U and PZ77U at CircuitCity today.
they both have visible glare to me in their semi-lit showroom :(

[gus6464]

Just saw both the Panasonic PZ700U and PZ77U at CircuitCity today.
they both have visible glare to me in their semi-lit showroom :(

How bad is the lighting in your room that you need something that has 0 glare?

[Kilim]

How bad is the lighting in your room that you need something that has 0 glare?

I have around an 8-9 foot window in my livingroom.
We don't like our LR to be dark at all really.

Besides, the lighting in CC was very low in the showroom area yet I noticed the glare.

[gus6464]

I have around an 8-9 foot window in my livingroom.
We don't like our LR to be dark at all really.

Besides, the lighting in CC was very low in the showroom area yet I noticed the glare.

Well it looks like you are set on LCD no matter what we say. Although I would stay away from the Samsung 71F/81F/65F as they have that glossy coating on them which is super reflective. The other day I saw the new Mitsubishi LCDs and they are very nice. If I was buying another LCD I would definitely go for one of those.

[Kilim]

I fully appreciate the info i get here.

I just saw personally that the Plasma Displays I saw in the showroom still have the Glare on it even with their Anti-Glare/Reflective display.
Also understand how some stores may have settings not in proper set.
Saw a 61F in 1 store being too dark while another has it looking nice.

1 thing is for sure, Glossy screens is not what me and my family would enjoy.
if there are other suggestions for non-glossy screens, would love to hear about it :D

[MDS]

Kilim, you've discovered why it is very difficult to choose a TV based on a short viewing experience at the store. Usually they are all set up in their default mode from the manufacturer and each is different.

I decided on the Toshiba 52LX177 (ordered it a few days ago). I saw it right next to a Sharp 92U and some model of Sony XBR all showing the same channel. An orange couch in the picture looked different on each set. Now which one is showing it 'correctly'? The Sharp and the Toshiba were similar and the Sony was way different. I've noticed that with the Sony sets a lot - one time in particular when every other brand showed a Red book on the screen whereas the Sony was reddish-pink.

[annunaki]

I would also suggest a Toshiba LCD. The 42LX177 would be a very nice set. It has been one of the highest reviewed LCD's in terms of performance number in Home Theater Magazine.


All LCDs exhibit a green push in color accuracy. However, Sony seems to set most of their televisions up with a slight red push (along withe the slight green push) in nearly all reviews I have seen regardless of the set's orientation (LCD, CRT, etc.). It must be a "Sony thing". :rolleyes:

[gus6464]

I would also suggest a Toshiba LCD. The 42LX177 would be a very nice set. It has been one of the highest reviewed LCD's in terms of performance number in Home Theater Magazine.


All LCDs exhibit a green push in color accuracy. However, Sony seems to set most of their televisions up with a slight red push (along withe the slight green push) in nearly all reviews I have seen regardless of the set's orientation (LCD, CRT, etc.). It must be a "Sony thing". :rolleyes:

I noticed that LG pushes blue.

[Kilim]

Adter reading up soem more, visiting various stores, I think I narrowed it down to the Samsung 61F and 69F.
Now just to decide if the 69F is worth teh premium or just save some cash and get the 61F instead.

[solomr2]

I was at my local BB this afternoon and they had the Samsung HP-T5084 on sale for $2180. I managed to talk them out of charging tax and delivery, so I will be receiving the set on Tuesday for the total cost of $2180. Plus with the 10% coupon (which I forgot to bring) I will get another 10% off.

Looking at this set side by side with the Panasonic, even though the sets are not properly calibrated, it just looked a little better than the 700U, so I pulled the trigger.

I am still looking for another set for my family room, but I need to get a matte screen for this troublesome room due to the amount of direct light in this room. I don't tihnk I'll be getting another 1080p set, a 720p will work for this need. Does anyone know of a decent 720p plasma with a matte screen?

[Kilim]

I ended up getting the Samsung 4069F.
Looks great so far and I am still trying to figure out how to fully tweak it.
Got a Pricematch at BB cuz I couldn't wait for the shipping time if I get it from Amazon.
Now I am wondering if I should have got the XBR4 instead lol.
(I still have until Jan 31 to exchange/return it :D )

Watching on my livingroom in the middle of the day was no problem at all to with the 69F atm.

[annunaki]

I noticed that LG pushes blue.

Every brand has their issues :D

They may do it to make the white bluer, which appears brighter.

[solomr2]

Every brand has their issues :D

They may do it to make the white bluer, which appears brighter.

Samsung pushes blue also, but they give you a lot of picture controls so you can adjust to reduce it and get it pretty close to neutral. I'm not sure why they do these things, but I guess they either don't know how to get the colors completely balanced, or they try to compensate for some kind of weakness.

[gobats]

Great tips and insight as always with this sight. However, as a novice in HD TV and a very limited Budget 600 -750.00, what sets would you suggest for a
slightly hearing impaired senior citizen?

[your_doc_2]

Sorry to jump in late on this this one but, the if you are a sports fan. The 71F gives you a better picture on fast moving action. I'm deciding now between the Samsung and the Sharpe D92

[solomr2]

Sorry to jump in late on this this one but, the if you are a sports fan. The 71F gives you a better picture on fast moving action. I'm deciding now between the Samsung and the Sharpe D92

Better than what?

I'm sitting in front of my 50" Samsung 5084 plasma watching the Broncos and Bears in HD on CBS and I can assure you this is as good a picture as I've ever seen on any HD TV for sports and fast moving on-screen action.

While I haven't spent a lot of time in front of the 71f, I have an HD LCD at home besides my plasmsa, and I have also done a great deal of in-store viewing of several high-end LCD TVs, including the 71f and D92U, and in most cases I've seen more issues with sports and fast movement on LCD than I have on plasma.

I suggest you take a look at the latest 1080p plasmas from Samsung and Panasonic and see it for yourself. I think you will find the plasmas have superior PQ and they are slightly cheaper at sizes near 50". Even the best LCD, the Sony XBR4 is only about as good as either of these plasmas at best, albeit it has aprice premium of several hundred $$.

[MDS]

What makes the Sony XBR4/5 the 'best' LCD? People seem to repeat that idea over and over but to my eyes they are hardly superior to any of the others. They are also plagued by the same issues as other brands yet you get to pay a much higher price.

[solomr2]

What makes the Sony XBR4/5 the 'best' LCD? People seem to repeat that idea over and over but to my eyes they are hardly superior to any of the others. They are also plagued by the same issues as other brands yet you get to pay a much higher price.

What makes it the best? Well, a very good black level, good colors, good featuers. To my eyes, it looked like the best PQ I've seen on LCD, but that is highly subjective. I wouldn't say it is significantly superior to other leading LCD panels, and certainly not worth the price premium. Honestly, if you see it side by side with other good panels, you may or may not notice the differences, depending on what you're watching and whether you're actually looking for the specific differences. It is certainly not flawless, and in my opinion it is not better than the leading plasmas. At best, it may match plasmas in certain PQ characteristics, but I still prefer the plasmas I mentioned for PQ.

[cmb5286]

samsung lcd ftmfw:D
no but seriously i picked up a 46" lcd and haven't ad any problems with it
HD cable looks phenomenal, Xbox 360 as well
as a monitor it functions pretty damn well
granted some of the SD stuff looks alright
but all in all a great purchase

[annunaki]

What makes the Sony XBR4/5 the 'best' LCD? People seem to repeat that idea over and over but to my eyes they are hardly superior to any of the others. They are also plagued by the same issues as other brands yet you get to pay a much higher price.


I agree. After looking at the Smasung 71 and the XBR4 side by side I would actually take the Samsung (if I HAD to go LCD) as the color was more accurate and I love the amount of control one gets. i wish they would have had a Toshiba LX177 in to view along with ith those two. From what I have seen in reviews it has great black levels and decent fine tuning abilities specifically with 120hz.

[MDS]

I think the black level of the 52LX177 is fine. You can tell that it's not pitch black when the scene changes to an all black screen but it is good enough for me.

I'm not so sure about the 120 Hz (ClearFrame). Analog channels and some of the digital channels look very poor to me and even hurt my eyes a bit because the image is very soft and seems to be ever so slightly out of focus. The text on the guide does not look crisp and bothers me sometimes.

Now it could be my own eyes or it could be that the TV doesn't do a great job of deinterlacing 1080i from the cable box (cable box converts everything to 1080i) or the cable box itself does a lousy job of converting to 1080i. I turned off ClearFrame and I swear the picture improved a lot. I watched Sniper on a regular analog channel last night and it looked very good - no motion lag and no shimmering.

[hasslethehoff]

If you're using this new tv for gaming, movies and pc usage, i wouldn't recommend getting a plasma:

-burn in can still be an issue, and while panasonics do a good job using pixel shifting technology, its not worth spending all this money and having a burned in image if you leave something up for a more than like a half hour or hour or so
-also if your room is really bright, plasmas have glass/plastic screens which reflect a good amount, whereas lcds do not

Also I would put LCDs over DLP televisions because of the clarity, while you can go much larger for the price with DLPs, the good clarity on a quality LCD still outshines a decent picture with a larger size.

About the newer LCD's 120hz refresh rate:
-hardly noticeble if you're just an average viewer of tv, it's extremely hard to tell the difference
-if you're an avid sports watcher this might be important to you, but you really won't be missing much if you skip out on the 120hz and save the money


Sony and samsung are definitly the two best LCD pictures out there, either of them you can't go wrong with

[solomr2]

Plasma burnin is not an issue anymore. I spent 3 hours on Xbox 360 with my son the other day on my new Samsung plasma and there wasn't a single hint of burnin.

[gus6464]

Plasma burnin is not an issue anymore. I spent 3 hours on Xbox 360 with my son the other day on my new Samsung plasma and there wasn't a single hint of burnin.

I accidentally left my Panasonic Plasma the other day paused on COD4 for about 2 hours. When I came back I had some image retention but after changing it to the cable for about 2 minutes the IR went away completely. Burn-in is hardly an issue anymore.

[cccsdad]

At the risk of sounding dumb, what is TBE?
Also what about the new sharp 46" D92U, has Sharp resolved their banding issues. What about the Mits 46244 ?

[MDS]

At the risk of sounding dumb, what is TBE?
Also what about the new sharp 46" D92U, has Sharp resolved their banding issues. What about the Mits 46244 ?

TBE you are referring to is probably 'triple ball effect' and is a cute little term coined by the avs forum for the case where a moving tennis ball appears as 3 balls. I think it was mainly Samsung LCDs that exhibited the phenomena.

I saw a Sharp D64U in my friend's house when I went home for Christmas and I could see the banding when he would switch channels and the screen was momentarily all gray. It's very difficult if not impossible to see it during normal scenes.

[solomr2]

I accidentally left my Panasonic Plasma the other day paused on COD4 for about 2 hours. When I came back I had some image retention but after changing it to the cable for about 2 minutes the IR went away completely. Burn-in is hardly an issue anymore.

Yeah... haven't seen any issues at all on my samsung plasma. The sammy also has some special features for this in case you are really paranoid about it. It has an adjustable image shift capability, and it also has an White screen for clearing the image. I haven't had to use either one, other than to just try it when I bought the set.

[cccsdad]

I WAS getting ready to buy a new LCD, but after comming in here and reading "Sonys have clouding issues", "Sharps have banding issues", Toshibas have Green Push issues" I've about decided to stick with my old 36" XBR.

A few questions:

1: Do the 92U Model Sharps still have the banding issues? Is there any press release from Sharp stating what the problem was and if they've corrected it?

2 I've heard through calibration, the "green push" associated with Toshiba's can be resolved?

3: I haven't heard much about the Mits. 46244 series, any info on them?

It seems ( after searching countless forums) as if the Samsungs seem to have the fewest negative comments.

Any NEW inf (especially realted to the Sharp 92U series, would be appreciated.

[Alex2507]

Hmm, I was just checking teh Panasonic website.
This is what I saw as main difference between teh 2.
Panasonic 77U vs 700U Comparison (http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelComparisonResults?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&catGroupId=75003&surfCategory=Plasma%20HDTVs&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702&items=126557|177931|)
77U

Anti-Glare Filter
10,000:1 Contrast Ratio
No PC Input

700U

Anti-reflective Coating
5000:1 Contrast Ratio
Have PC Input
$200 more than the 77U



My question is about the contrast ratios. 5,000:1 as opposed to 10,000:1 sounds like it should huge make a difference, will it?

[obscbyclouds]

My question is about the contrast ratios. 5,000:1 as opposed to 10,000:1 sounds like it should huge make a difference, will it?

From my understanding, contrast ratios are pretty bunk. You can't accurately compare one TV to another this way.

[Alex2507]

From my understanding, contrast ratios are pretty bunk. You can't accurately compare one TV to another this way.

I knew that the rating system for contrast ratios was "funny" but these two TV's are both Panasonic. The other thing that gets me is that the more expensive model has the weaker rating. Whhhyyyyyyy????? It's like lusting after a pair of twins where one has a better rack and a wart on her nose.

[annunaki]

The 700U is a better looking picture in my opinion. The picture seems more detailed with better, more defined blacks. It seems more natural. Numbers don't always tell the whole story. ;)

[Alex2507]

The 700U is a better looking picture in my opinion. The picture seems more detailed with better, more defined blacks. It seems more natural. Numbers don't always tell the whole story. ;)

Thank you. Now I can go back to drooling over it without reservation. :)

[freeride]

I WAS getting ready to buy a new LCD, but after comming in here and reading "Sonys have clouding issues", "Sharps have banding issues", Toshibas have Green Push issues" I've about decided to stick with my old 36" XBR.

I would keep in mind that people with issues tend to post about them more so than those that don't. Happy customers are too busy watching TV to post about how great their new set is.

Also, if you read alot about sony issues, it could be that they have the same defect rate as the Samsung, but they have just sold more TVs. It seems like every manufacture has some quality issues, but I think the majority of us don't see it.

I just bought a Mitsubushi 65733 RPT even though there are many posts about issues with them. Mine has not exhibited a single issue that has been seen by some of the unfornate users. It's awesome and defect free so far.

You can also protect yourself a little by buying from a store with a hassle free return policy like Best Buy, Costco, etc. or just buy an extended warrenty.