Internet Audio and the Denon 3808CI

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N

nononsense

Audiophyte
I recently purchased a Denon 3808CI along with associated home theater speakers and plasma display for my family room remodel. My question is specifically about the ethernet capability of the receiver to receive internet radio.

The receiver does not connect to my network and displays "Network problem" when attempting to set the source to network.

I have tested my network wiring and both computers and Xbox are able to connect to the network/internet without problem.

The 3808 owner's manual states on p.20, "The AVE-3808CI is not compatible with PPPoE. A PPPoE-compatible router is required if you have a contract for a line of the type with which the PPPoE is set."

My internet service is DSL. The store where I purchased the receiver has internet via the cable company and they had no problem connecting to the internet with the receiver. The store is making inquiries to Denon about this, but have not heard back yet.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience to share on this problem?
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
1) Do you have DHCP enabled on your router? If not, you will need to assign the 3808 an IP address before if can work on the network.
2) Are you using MAC address filtering? If yes, you may need to add the MAC address for the 3808 to the list of allowed devices. I dont know how to obtaing the MAC from the 3808.

See if the Troubleshooting section (Pg84) is any help.
 
N

nononsense

Audiophyte
I have DHCP enabled on my LAN. All the other devices I have tested connect to the internet flawlessly. These include a laptop computer and Xbox. The receiver setup was performed as indicated on p.32 of the manual, "Network Setup". It was set to use DHCP.

To my knowledge, I am not using MAC address filtering. I have two desktop computers and a printer connected to the LAN (for more than 5 years) already and have not exerienced a problem like this ever before. My LAN is setup to use DHCP.

The troubleshooting section was no help to me, and I have gone over the setup/ settings several times with the same result.

:confused: What I find hard to understand is that a LAN (ethernet) device cares about the type of communication protocol (PPPoE) that is used by my router to connect between the LAN and the WAN? This seems pretty weird to me for a new A/V receiver that is advertised with network audio capability.

Still have not heard back form the store's inquiry to Denon.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
The Denon cares about protocol since it impacts how data bits are sent across the network. I believe it needs TCP/IP, which is what you are already using for your LAN.

Here is what Wiki has to say about PPPoE (Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet),

Ethernet networks are packet-based and have no concept of a connection or circuit. But using PPPoE, users can virtually "dial" from one machine to another over an ethernet network, establish a point to point connection between them and then transport data packets over the connection.

Here is what Wiki has to say about TCP/IP (Transmission Control Protocol/ Internet Protocol),

The Internet protocol suite is the set of communications protocols that implement the protocol stack on which the Internet and most commercial networks run. It has also been referred to as the TCP/IP protocol suite, which is named after two of the most important protocols in it: the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) and the Internet Protocol (IP), which were also the first two networking protocols defined.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
When the DSL connection was setup did you have to install any special software and as part of that installation supply a username and password to login? If so, then you may be using PPPoE. Your router may have an option in the basic setup that asks 'Does your ISP require a username and password? If you answer Yes, it will supply the username and password.

What settings are available on the receiver? It could be a DNS problem, the receiver may default to a subnet mask that does not match the other machines on the network, the default gateway could be wrong.
 
N

nononsense

Audiophyte
The results of my discussions with my ISP (ATT) and my modem/router manufacturer (NetGear) are that the Denon receiver is incapable of communicating over a WAN using DSL technology. DSL uses PPPoE.

Denon technical support was no help in clarifying this issue, and they seemed to not be aware of the problem. So I went to ATT and NetGear to see if there was anything I needed to do in hardware or software settings to make the receiver work.

This is a serious deficiency in the Denon receiver; basically locking out all DSL subscribers from accessing audio via the internet.
 
J

Jeje2

Junior Audioholic
nononsense said:
The results of my discussions with my ISP (ATT) and my modem/router manufacturer (NetGear) are that the Denon receiver is incapable of communicating over a WAN using DSL technology. DSL uses PPPoE.
Click to expand...
My boardband also uses PPPoE so this is seriously bad news :mad:

Though I'm thinking if there would any switch/firewall box that could be configured to use the PPPoE outside and have inside an own private network so that the inside devices don't have to use PPPoE.

Is there any such devices?
 
A

Addy

Audioholic
so waaaay off topic but how do you like your denon 3808 other then the network problem...and if you dont mind me asking what speakers do u use?:D
 
N

nononsense

Audiophyte
Jeje2 said:
Though I'm thinking if there would any switch/firewall box that could be configured to use the PPPoE outside and have inside an own private network so that the inside devices don't have to use PPPoE.

Is there any such devices?
Click to expand...
According to my research from Netgear and ATT, there is no such 'box' (I was looking for something like this too). My network, and all other DSL broadband connections, use PPPoE from the Modem out to the ISP servers (the WAN). Although the internal network is using TCP/IP, it all eventually goes out over the WAN, hence PPPoE is used to communicate with the ISP servers. Denon has designed a serious deficiency into this particular 'feature'.

My dealer is waiting to discuss this with the Denon rep. I'll update if and when I hear anything further from that avenue.
 
N

nononsense

Audiophyte
Addy said:
...how do you like your denon 3808 other then the network problem...what speakers do u use?:D
Click to expand...
Short answer - I like the Denon a lot :D (except for the network audio :mad:).
Long answer - This is my first purchase of high quality audio/video equipment in a long time (almost 20 years), so I relied heavily in reading reviews on this web site to choose a new A/V receiver for my new home theater system.

The main pieces of my system are: Fujitsu P55XTA51UB plasma, Paradigm speakers - Studio 20 V4 front L&R, Studio CC 590 center, Seismic 10 sub, 2 ea. SA15RSM for L/R surround (each wired in parallel), and one SA15RSM used for L/R rear (wired separately). I have an older CD changer and a Denon DVD-1940CI for DVDs. My power conditioner is a Panamax M5300. I am using DirecTV for satellite HD service.
 
M

masbirdies

Audiophyte
Just to chime in on the Denon...

I'm ecstatic with my 3808. I have cable modem and wireless home network. Didn't want to run a cable so I got a wireless gaming adapter and hooked it into the ethernet port on the Denon. It works flawlessly! In fact, everything on this Denon has been plug and play. Love the way it works over the home net (internet audio-cool but audio basically sucks, USB controls my Iriver mp3 player beautifully, web based control from any pc in the house, streaming audio from any home pcs hd, etc...) I really like the graphical interface and it, again, beautifully overlays over any display I am viewing.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
masbirdies said:
I'm ecstatic with my 3808. I have cable modem and wireless home network. Didn't want to run a cable so I got a wireless gaming adapter and hooked it into the ethernet port on the Denon. It works flawlessly! In fact, everything on this Denon has been plug and play. Love the way it works over the home net (internet audio-cool but audio basically sucks, USB controls my Iriver mp3 player beautifully, web based control from any pc in the house, streaming audio from any home pcs hd, etc...) I really like the graphical interface and it, again, beautifully overlays over any display I am viewing.
Click to expand...
Like any piece of so-called 'plug and play' network gear it's beautiful when it all works flawlessly on the first try. The people who have issues with it are those that have a setup that differs slightly from the 'perfect' arrangement that the receiver was designed to deal with.
 
B

Beacheshome

Audiophyte
Same problem - any resolve??

My thinking at the moment is that it may be a firewall issue. Each of the PC's that connect to my router require WPA security authentication in the form of a password. I am about to try adding Mac address access control by specifying the mac addresses for each of the machines that connect to the network including that for the 3808 receiver. Has anyone explored this yet?
 
N

nononsense

Audiophyte
I did try specifying the MAC address for the receiver in my router setup and reserved an IP address for it as well. No luck in my situation. My LAN devices are all hard wired ethernet connections, and only my router needs the password to connect to the ISP. I do not know about WPA security.
 
pmac

pmac

Junior Audioholic
nononsense said:
I recently purchased a Denon 3808CI along with associated home theater speakers and plasma display for my family room remodel. My question is specifically about the ethernet capability of the receiver to receive internet radio.

The receiver does not connect to my network and displays "Network problem" when attempting to set the source to network.

I have tested my network wiring and both computers and Xbox are able to connect to the network/internet without problem.

The 3808 owner's manual states on p.20, "The AVE-3808CI is not compatible with PPPoE. A PPPoE-compatible router is required if you have a contract for a line of the type with which the PPPoE is set."

My internet service is DSL. The store where I purchased the receiver has internet via the cable company and they had no problem connecting to the internet with the receiver. The store is making inquiries to Denon about this, but have not heard back yet.

Anyone have any thoughts or experience to share on this problem?
Click to expand...
I don't know if this has been fixed yet. But generally PPPoE uses rotating IP's. Try setting the router up to have a static IP for all the connections in the network. I imagine that would fix the issue as long as the denon has the ability to assign IP etc. If not, try hooking it up to the main PC as the network access point. Plus DSL/PPPoE require User Pass for the most part when logging on. The router would not require this(Just a password).

I hope it is not too much of a pain as I just purchased a 3808 and am waiting for the delivery. I have cable over secure network with a 26 digit password, so I hope all the options are there for network setup myself.
 
pmac

pmac

Junior Audioholic
masbirdies said:
I'm ecstatic with my 3808. I have cable modem and wireless home network. Didn't want to run a cable so I got a wireless gaming adapter and hooked it into the ethernet port on the Denon. It works flawlessly! In fact, everything on this Denon has been plug and play. Love the way it works over the home net (internet audio-cool but audio basically sucks, USB controls my Iriver mp3 player beautifully, web based control from any pc in the house, streaming audio from any home pcs hd, etc...) I really like the graphical interface and it, again, beautifully overlays over any display I am viewing.
Click to expand...
This makes me happy to see. I am so stressed about dumping this kind of $ on a receiver, with so many choices I was not sure I made the right choice vs the Yamaha 3800, Pioneer Elite 94TXH, Onkyo 875 and the Denon 3808. Having chosen the 3808 i am glad to see posts like this. Especially the Wireless adaptor because that was exactly what I was going to do/try.

Tip for others not wanting to run wires. There are these little devices available that run the internet signal through the electrical wires in the house. Generally as long as you are on your own fuse box, there should not be a problem. I use 2 so far in my house, $30 a piece for 11Mbps for refurb adaptors. They auto configure once you plug one to the main router then plug em all in and in 5 minutes the whole house is wired, but only the lenght of the distance from the devices to the nearest Power Plug. I went to a Best Buy, the people had them but no one had a CLUE what they actually were until I explained it.
 
yettitheman

yettitheman

Audioholic General
Maybe an issue with port forwarding???

This is why I just hook up a separate computer to a receiver, easier to deal with. But, at the same token it would piss me off as well buying something that doesn't work.
 
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