1080i and 1080p Duke it out!

[Nimrod]

Having a discussion here with a friend, regarding the differences between a 1080i & 1080p TV’s

We have different opinions on the matter, so I’d like to ask you experts

Me: 1080i has a brighter picture
Him: no it does not

Me: 1080p has better dark colors
Him: no, the difference is the Interlace and Progressive aspect.

[malvado78]

Having a discussion here with a friend, regarding the differences between a 1080i & 1080p TV’s

We have different opinions on the matter, so I’d like to ask you experts

Me: 1080i has a brighter picture
Him: no it does not

Me: 1080p has better dark colors
Him: no, the difference is the Interlace and Progressive aspect.

Looks like your friend knows what he is talking about.

[Clint DeBoer]

Him = more right than you.

Given a good enough display and all things the same, a 1080i/60 source is identical to 1080p/30 source to our eyes.

Also, no 1080-ish digital HD display actually displays 1080i - they all upconvert 1080p. 1080i would entail every other line displaying, which is a strictly CRT-phenomenon.

[gmichael]

1080i and 1080p move to the center of the ring. 1080i gets ready to swing. Wow! 1080p slammed him with a left hook. (i) is down. (p) is dancing around the ring. (i) is out cold. They have to take it out in a stretcher.

So that's it ladies and gentlemen. (i) lasted about 4 seconds.
(p) wins!!!!!!!
(p) wins!!!!!!!

[BMXTRIX]

Nimrod (great username) - Your friend seems to have it a bit more down than you.

There are some good writeups out there, but they are tough to understand, but the bottom line is that 1080i and 1080p tend to follow the way things are encoded as video.

At the display level, ALL digital displays including plasma, lcd, dlp, and lcos all are inherently progressive scan (except for a couple). So, it's important to differentiate between what you may be feeding the display (1080i/1080p) and what the display is actually showing you.

Displays have FIXED resolution outputs and here are the most common ones seen:
1080p = 1920x1080 pixels
768p (wxga) = 1365 (or 1366) x 768 pixels
720p = 1280x720 pixels

It is all about resolution and field/frame rates, it is not about brightness, color accuracy, or anything else.

[jonnythan]

I'm curious as to why you thought 1080i had a brighter picture than 1080p?

[bigbangtheory]

I'm curious as to why you thought 1080i had a brighter picture than 1080p?

The "i" stands for intense picture, the "p" stands for a mere pretty good...

At least, that's what they say at Best Buy and Circuit City *sigh* :(

Thank goodness for forums! :)

[1tribeca]

Seriously?? They didn't actually say that did they? If so, immediate dismissal!!

[bigbangtheory]

Seriously?? They didn't actually say that did they? If so, immediate dismissal!!

No no no. I was just joking. Poorly.

[autoboy]

Damnit,

I saw the title of the thread and I thought, hey someone did a HD/BD test with their output at 1080i and 1080p and compared the difference. Instead, we got some lamo crap about i is brighter and p is better blacks??? WOW.

[bmann]

First of all, after lurking for a couple of years, this is my first post. I truly thought I understood the difference between 1080i or 1080p as well as 720p, but now I'm confused. If I understand what is being stated correctly, there is actually no such thing as a 1080i monitor, but only 1080i source material??? Does this mean that you can either have a 720p monitor or a 1080p monitor?:confused:

[jonnythan]

A CRT can show 1080i or 1080p.

CRTs produce pictures by literally dragging an electron beam back and forth across the screen. It is physically capable of doing interlaced or progressive scan.

A fixed-pixel display such as a plasma, LCD, or DLP, is physically incapable of doing interlaced video because they update entire frames all at once. They take 1080i and de-interlace it to produce 1080p or 720p, depending on the display.

[MDS]

First of all, after lurking for a couple of years, this is my first post. I truly thought I understood the difference between 1080i or 1080p as well as 720p, but now I'm confused. If I understand what is being stated correctly, there is actually no such thing as a 1080i monitor, but only 1080i source material??? Does this mean that you can either have a 720p monitor or a 1080p monitor?:confused:

Not quite. An HDTV is a 'fixed pixel' device which means it has a fixed number of pixels - known as its native resolution. That resolution might be an exact High Def resolution like 1280 x 720 (720p), 1920 x 1080 (1080p) or another odd, but common, resolution like 1366 x 768 (which would be 768p - because all HDTVs are progressive scan).

Regardless of the resolution of the incoming signal, the TV will scale it to its native resolution and also deinterlace (convert to progressive) if necessary.

So, yes there is no such thing as a 1080i TV. For one thing, all HDTVs are progressive scan. When people say they have a '1080i TV' what they are really saying is that the highest resolution it can accept as input is 1080i. The resolution of the TV itself cannot be 1080i because they are all progressive scan.

If the TV resolution is 1080p but can only accept 1080i as input (like the Toshiba HL167 models), the TV will deinterlace the 1080i to 1080p and display it. Likewise, if the TV resolution is 1366 x 768 and it accepts 1080i as input, it will deinterlace the 1080i and then decimate (reduce) the resolution to 1366 x 768.

Incidentally this is why upscaling DVD players and receivers are all the rage. The idea is that the receiver/dvd player can do the scaling to match the TV native resolution so the TV doesn't have to touch it. IFF the receiver/player does a better job of it than the TV, it will be a benefit.

[jonnythan]

An HDTV is a 'fixed pixel' device...
all HDTVs are progressive scan...
So, yes there is no such thing as a 1080i TV....
For one thing, all HDTVs are progressive scan....
Not so!

There are a lot of CRT rear projection and CRT direct-view HDTVs out there. These are not fixed-pixel displays. They can, and often do, natively display 1080i. In fact, most older HDTVs are CRTs that accept and display *only* 480i, 480p, and 1080i signals.

Plasma, DLP, SxRD, LCD, and LCoS are fixed pixel devices. HDTVs often are, but are also often not.

[MDS]

Not so!

There are a lot of CRT rear projection and CRT direct-view HDTVs out there. These are not fixed-pixel displays.

Yes, there are still some dinosaurs around but no they do not have a native resolution of 1080i. They accept many resolutions but display it at whatever number of lines the raster is capable of.

[jonnythan]

Yes, there are still some dinosaurs around but no they do not have a native resolution of 1080i. They accept many resolutions but display it at whatever number of lines the raster is capable of.
There are a LOT of 1080i CRTS out "in the wild."

Furthermore, you can still go to an electronics store and buy a direct-view CRT that has a native display resolution of 1080i. Most, if not all, CRT HDTVs display 1080i natively.

I don't want to get into an argument about it. It's a fact that a large portion of HDTVs in homes today display 1080i natively as a matter of course. It's obviously very wrong to say that "all HDTVs are progressive scan" or "there is no such thing as a 1080i HDTV."

[MDS]

In the context of this question that comes up all the time, the posters are talking about fixed pixel devices and they are all progressive scan and NONE of them are 1080i for the reasons I've stated many times.

A CRT has no native resolution to which every input signal has to be scaled in the same way that a fixed pixel display does but it is still not '1080i native'. If you feed a CRT a 480i signal does it 'scale' it to 1080i? No, so you could just as easily say it is '480i native'.

The confusion on this topic is due to TVs that accept 1080i as input but scale it to a resolution that is not 1920 x 1080. If the TV resolution is 1366 x 768 and it accepts 1080i inputs, it is not a '1080i TV' as many people think - it is 768p.

[jonnythan]

In the context of this question that comes up all the time, the posters are talking about fixed pixel devices and they are all progressive scan and NONE of them are 1080i for the reasons I've stated many times.

A CRT has no native resolution to which every input signal has to be scaled in the same way that a fixed pixel display does but it is still not '1080i native'. If you feed a CRT a 480i signal does it 'scale' it to 1080i? No, so you could just as easily say it is '480i native'.

The confusion on this topic is due to TVs that accept 1080i as input but scale it to a resolution that is not 1920 x 1080. If the TV resolution is 1366 x 768 and it accepts 1080i inputs, it is not a '1080i TV' as many people think - it is 768p.
Oh, OK. I see it now.

All HDTVs are "fixed pixel" devices.
All HDTVs are progressive scan.
There is no such thing as a 1080i HDTV.
No TV can display a 1080i signal natively.

I'm glad we go that cleared up.

:rolleyes:

[MDS]

You're totally lost and I cannot explain it in any simpler terms.

[jonnythan]

Wow.

You say that "An HDTV is a 'fixed pixel' device" and "all HDTVs are progressive scan" and I'm the one who is lost?

Do you honestly believe that all HDTVs are progressive scan and all HDTVs are fixed-pixel displays?

[bmann]

I'm all clear now, thanks. My next question, I have a pioneer 768p plasma and a n 80 dollar upscaling toshiba dvd player. It allows you to choose between 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Being that my tv is actually none of those, I assume it would be best to go for the closest one, 720p. Is this correct?

[jonnythan]

It would be best to go for 720p, yes. You'll likely see no difference between 1080i and 720p, but always shoot for the closest thing to the panel's "native resolution."

[MDS]

Wow.

You say that "An HDTV is a 'fixed pixel' device" and "all HDTVs are progressive scan" and I'm the one who is lost?

Do you honestly believe that all HDTVs are progressive scan and all HDTVs are fixed-pixel displays?

I am extremely sorry that I used the word ALL. I explained that it was meant in the context of these types of questions where the people have recently bought an HDTV and it was not a CRT.

I've tried to explain the difference between input resolution and display resolution and yes the concept differs between CRT and fixed pixel devices. You want to derail that discussion and focus on my use of the word all but still don't see the concept and instead use interlaced CRT to 'disprove' the notion that no TV is 1080i. If your CRT can accept 480i, then why not say it is a '480i TV'? That would be wrong too.

How about this:
- A CRT will display any input signal it can accept at that resolution. It will not scale it to any other resolution.

- A fixed pixel HDTV will display any input signal it can accept at the TV's native resolution. If you want to say a TV with a resolution of 1366 x 768 is a 1080i TV because that is the highest resolution it can accept so be it - but it is incorrect.

[jonnythan]

Oh so THAT'S what you meant by your original post. Glad you clarified ;)