Hi Def "war" the real truth

[Jey Jockey]

I have to say something here...over and over all we hear is HD DVD is dead. What all the experts are forgetting is one simple HUGE factor. This "war" hasn't even started yet, total, yes total hidef disc sales, thats BD and HD DVD combined are less than 1% of total DVD sales, the 60/40 sales ratio in favour of BD is meaningless at this time as the numbers are so small they only just took the lead over VHS ( last 2 weeks)!!!!:eek: LOL, when was the last time ANYONE you knew bought a VHS tape?? This really sums up the whole situtation,sales so far in both camps are pathetic at best, most folks couldn't give a crap about BD or HD DVD and even if they owned one it would be hooked up to their tv with an AV rca cable.

When joe blow can buy his HD player with the correct cable in the box at Wally World for $99 or less and movies can be had for $10-$20, maybe and thats maybe sales may hit 10% of DVD sales within a year.

I will say I own an HD DVD player and truly love it, I would also love a BD player, I just love movies in HI DEF period. For me I bought the HD DVD player because they have more movies that I enjoy and was much cheaper to buy.

I'm just loving my HT. and my viewing and listening enjoyment has been seriously enhanced by the hi def movie experience....

BTW, if I can buy a PS3 for $300 or a BD standalone player...i'm in.

Peace.

[stratman]

You probably don't remember when VCRs (early 70's) came out, the majority of folks couldn't care less, but now we know what happened. When hi def players reach a price point that the average consumer is comfortable with the picture will once again change. Toshiba's 3rd gen players are coming on line in the fall at reduced prices and towards the end of Q4 you'll be able to purchase a sub 200.00 player.

[Adam]

You probably don't remember when VCRs (early 70's) came out, the majority of folks couldn't care less, but now we know what happened.

stratman is good, stratman is wise.

The same is true for DVDs, and that's not so long ago. I bought a second-gen player in January 1998 for $600, long before anyone else that I knew even really understood what a DVD was. Now, they're everywhere.

But, stratman's comparison is better because his gets to the "war" back then...VHS or Beta. Might have seemed liked a meaningless war in the beginning to some people, but I'm guessing that it paid off big in the long run to the winner.

[Gimpy Ric]

I payed $500.00 for my Sony BD player, and even if it becomes a betamax I won't care. I lost a lot more than that Friday in the stock market. But I get to enjoy hi-def now.

Have Fun :)

[tcarcio]

I payed $500.00 for my Sony BD player, and even if it becomes a betamax I won't care. I lost a lot more than that Friday in the stock market. But I get to enjoy hi-def now.

Have Fun :)

I feel the same way. I bought the XA2 because I just wanted a good HD player and it seemed to fit the bill for me since I am not a gamer. But if I was I would have got the PS3. I don't get this war business and people screaming at each other that they have to win or it is all over. The player I chose does a great job upconverting so if one format becomes the norm and it is BD then I will still have a great machine that will not self destruct just because it won't play BD's. I am new to this forum and all the arguing that is going on at other forums is what made me start to check out some others and I found this one. I am not an audiofile or videofile I am just a guy who has a modest HTR and loves to watch movies and listen to music. I look forward to talking to people who feel the same.:D

[mtrycrafts]

I have to say something here...over and over all we hear is HD DVD is dead. What all the experts are forgetting is one simple HUGE factor. This "war" hasn't even started yet, total, yes total hidef disc sales, thats BD and HD DVD combined are less than 1% of total DVD sales, the 60/40 sales ratio in favour of BD is meaningless at this time as the numbers are so small they only just took the lead over VHS ( last 2 weeks)!!!!:eek: LOL, when was the last time ANYONE you knew bought a VHS tape?? This really sums up the whole situtation,sales so far in both camps are pathetic at best, most folks couldn't give a crap about BD or HD DVD and even if they owned one it would be hooked up to their tv with an AV rca cable.

When joe blow can buy his HD player with the correct cable in the box at Wally World for $99 or less and movies can be had for $10-$20, maybe and thats maybe sales may hit 10% of DVD sales within a year.

I will say I own an HD DVD player and truly love it, I would also love a BD player, I just love movies in HI DEF period. For me I bought the HD DVD player because they have more movies that I enjoy and was much cheaper to buy.

I'm just loving my HT. and my viewing and listening enjoyment has been seriously enhanced by the hi def movie experience....

BTW, if I can buy a PS3 for $300 or a BD standalone player...i'm in.

Peace.

The early Bluray uses Mpeg2 coding, not as good as that VC-1 Hd is using. Plus, the stand alone hi def player sales are in the HD camp. Sony is ahead because of the gaming feature.

[SamW]

This "war" hasn't even started yet, total, yes total hidef disc sales, thats BD and HD DVD combined are less than 1% of total DVD sales, the 60/40 sales ratio in favour of BD is meaningless at this time as the numbers are so small they only just took the lead over VHS ( last 2 weeks)!!!!:eek:

Excellent point made above. I tend to agree. If I'm not mistaken the Beta / VHS war went on for 10+ years. I think we could see this drag out for a looong time.

Personally, IF the movie studios would produce movies in BOTH formats...I'd like both technologies to continue...as it would mean more options and lower prices for consumers.

[mtrycrafts]

Excellent point made above. I tend to agree. If I'm not mistaken the Beta / VHS war went on for 10+ years. I think we could see this drag out for a looong time.

Personally, IF the movie studios would produce movies in BOTH formats...I'd like both technologies to continue...as it would mean more options and lower prices for consumers.

And, dual players are coming too, more and more.

[j_garcia]

For me I bought the HD DVD player because they have more movies that I enjoy and was much cheaper to buy.

Not sure where you got that from, because there are almost the same number of titles available on both formats, with slightly more Blu-ray than HD-DVD last time I looked.

[darien87]

Not sure where you got that from, because there are almost the same number of titles available on both formats, with slightly more Blu-ray than HD-DVD last time I looked.
He probably means the individual titles, i.e. Batman Begins on HD-DVD, but not Blu-ray.

[j_garcia]

Gotcha, that makes sense. Batman Begins was announced for BD later this year, as is the Matrix Trilogy.

[BMXTRIX]

I have to say something here...over and over all we hear is HD DVD is dead.
I've been following things pretty closely for two years and I never hear HD DVD is dead from anyone other than HD DVD owners.

What I hear is 'Target is exclusively carrying Blu-ray stand alone players in stores this holiday season' or 'Blockbuster stores will carry Blu-ray in stores' and 'Denon goes Blu' and more and more news about stores, CE companies, and studios furthering their support for Blu-ray.

Nothing about HD DVD being dead though.

What all the experts are forgetting is one simple HUGE factor. This "war" hasn't even started yet, total, yes total hidef disc sales, thats BD and HD DVD combined are less than 1% of total DVD sales, the 60/40 sales ratio in favour of BD is meaningless at this time as the numbers are so small they only just took the lead over VHS ( last 2 weeks)!!!!:eek:
I would disagree with this. Studios are definitely looking at numbers and seeing what is going on. Keep in mind that last year HD DVD enjoyed about a 80/20 lead on Blu-ray, while this year Blu-ray has been sitting at about 66/34. That's a huge one year swing. Now, it is possible that HD DVD could turn things around, but it must be HD DVD that turns things around, not Toshiba. Monopolies tend not to be the winners of format wars, it is the companies that license their technologies more fully that win these types of things.

It will be interesting to see how Blu-ray plays out through the rest of this year, and it will be interesting to see what happens next year with studios. Especially if Universal goes neutral.

When joe blow can buy his HD player with the correct cable in the box at Wally World for $99 or less and movies can be had for $10-$20, maybe and thats maybe sales may hit 10% of DVD sales within a year.
Maybe, but by the time J6P wants HD players the format war may have already been decided, or there may be a clear direction to what the market is doing.

I will say I own an HD DVD player and truly love it, I would also love a BD player, I just love movies in HI DEF period. For me I bought the HD DVD player because they have more movies that I enjoy and was much cheaper to buy.
A lot of people say this, but about the only thing HD DVD really has for movies is Universal releases. Should that change, then all HD DVD will have is price. Which has been good for consumers - until they realize that they do want the movies that Fox, Disney, and Sony release.

I'm not sure this format war will last nearly as long as some people think it will. Yes, HD DVD or Blu-ray may hang on for years, but I think by some point next year, there will be a clear indication of which format is going to be able to survive long term.

[Jey Jockey]

Yes, thats what I meant...Universal exclusives such as Batman, Hot Fuzz, Kong,Bourne etc.

[j_garcia]

10 movies are not going to decide the format war. As much as I liked Hot Fuzz and Shawn of the Dead, titles like these are NOT going make HD-DVD the one to choose.

[darien87]

10 movies are not going to decide the format war. As much as I liked Hot Fuzz and Shawn of the Dead, titles like these are NOT going make HD-DVD the one to choose.
Hot Fuzz was ok, but I didn't find myself laughing near as much as I did with Shaun of the Dead.

[stratman]

What will eventually win the war will be consumer acceptance. Usually achieved through agressive marketing (conditioning) and agressive pricing, untill then it's a niche, but growing, market. Just as VCRs were.

[Joe Schmoe]

I don't plan to buy either one until either a)there is a clear winner or b)dual-format players are widely available for $150 or less. Many audio/videophiles may feel differently, but I am guessing that my attitude is typical of the general public.

[j_garcia]

I do think that will be along the lines of the typical person, but it also isn't entirely realistic. If you don't make a decision, that means one is being made for you or not at all. It took a few years before really inexpensive players hit the market, so don't expect $150 players anytime soon.

[Joe Schmoe]

If you don't make a decision, that means one is being made for you or not at all.

If we were talking about presidents, that would bother me. Between Blu Ray and HDDVD, however, I don't care and can see no reason to care. They both offer high-resolution video (and audio), so why does it matter? The industry did themselves a major disservice by not simply choosing one in the first place and sticking to it. I am guessing that sales would be 10 times as high without the format war turning off most consumers.

[BMXTRIX]

If we were talking about presidents, that would bother me. Between Blu Ray and HDDVD, however, I don't care and can see no reason to care. They both offer high-resolution video (and audio), so why does it matter? The industry did themselves a major disservice by not simply choosing one in the first place and sticking to it. I am guessing that sales would be 10 times as high without the format war turning off most consumers.
90% of the industry had made a decision and formed the BDA prior to Toshiba pushing their format. Toshiba, and only Toshiba, pushed HD DVD - and they still do. I believe, quite strongly, that the last second decision by Microsoft to support HD DVD was the main reason HD DVD came to exist at all.

I also think that Toshiba owning 51% of the Toshiba/Samsung company that will release the Samsung branded Blu-ray/HD DVD combo player is the first step Toshiba is taking to ensure that they will be ready for full Blu-ray production in the next couple of years.

NOTE: It has been recently announced that HD optical discs are actually amounting to almost 5% of movie sales. This is a huge upswing, but it is consistent with the growth that HD discs have seen this year. 1% is the number we were using in January of this year, so things are definitely progressing.

I simply don't think that the format war will last long enough for J6P to be involved with it. By the time J6P is ready to buy in, the format war will be over. Either HD DVD will win, Blu-ray will win, or we will have dual format players as the norm.

[stratman]

Dual format players in my opinion are a bit premature, it's basically two companies hedging their bets, I think dualys are being marketed to the enthusiast and not the general public, hence the still high prices. I said it last year, my opinion still stands, I believe by summer's end as we get closer to Q4, we're going to see some dramatic price drops that will greatly influence the format choice one way or the other. HD flat screens sales were up (across the board both LCD and Plasma) in the HD sector, the consumer is getting an inkling on what hi-def might be, they're over the aura of a "flat TV hanging on the wall" mystique, every Tom, **** and Harry has one, that wow factor has been met, Direct TV is pushing HD to it's limit( as far as advertising) and Blu-ray is doing a masterful job of getting the word out, much to the dismay of HD DVD whose only sporadic commercial seems to be the one of Michael Imperioli of the Sopranos, not too dramatic and very bland. Christmas will really see an exciting chapter unfold, I took a very unscientific (sorry Mtry!) poll, neighbors, friends, family, etc were asked 3 things: Did they know what Hi-Def TV was? Did they know what a Hi-Def DVD was? Had they heard of Blu-ray or HD DVD? Not surprisingly, the older folk thought all TVs hung on the wall were the "new fancy TVs with super clear pictures", the younger folks did, but were more interested in the gaming aspect. Asked if they knew what a hi-def DVD was, most again, except the youngest drew blank stares and said no, Blu-ray and HD DVD was not generally known by the older folks, again the younger did know, but weren't really interested. Of course an informal poll like this is not really accurate, but it does tell you what the least common denominator(the non-enthusiast, regular joe) thinks of a particular product, the folks with the money are buying into the technology very slowly, some(the less affluent) are getting over the sticker shock of their flat panel purchases (that at the time seemed like a real bargain!), so any other gadgets are out for a while. Remember we Audioholics look at this tech with passionate eyes, but we're the minority, we don't make a dent when it comes to volume purchases, as the economy slows somewhat, this conversation might just be a moot point, if the economy really tanks it might be the end of both formats or the prices will get so low that the temptation to buy might be too great. Either way, I'm still waiting.:)

[j_garcia]

If we were talking about presidents, that would bother me. Between Blu Ray and HDDVD, however, I don't care and can see no reason to care. They both offer high-resolution video (and audio), so why does it matter? The industry did themselves a major disservice by not simply choosing one in the first place and sticking to it. I am guessing that sales would be 10 times as high without the format war turning off most consumers.

Which one wins won't really going to affect most people, but why just stand by and watch? What is wrong with being on the bleeding edge? It's a 50/50 chance that the one you choose will win, so odds are not exactly terrible. There are plenty of good titles out on both, so it isn't like you are missing out on a lot with either.

I disagree about sales. With one format, the vast majority of people would still be fence sitting over price and new technology and the same early adopters would be buying just like they are now.

Blu-ray will still be around even if it doesn't win over J6P. Games for the PS3 will continue to be released on BD, so it isn't going anywhere soon. HD-DVD does not have a product like this since games are not released on HD-DVD and the unit is an add on for the 360, and most that I have seen have opted not to buy it.

[stratman]

Engadgethd announced that online VIDEO BUSINESS site said that "sources" from retailer BJ along with several Hollywood studios said that by the end of Q4 all 170 BJ stores will be exclusively Blu-ray only. Take this with a grain of salt, but if true the consequences for Toshiba can be disastrous.