Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[admin]

If I had to describe it in a word, that word would be "pandemonium." That was what seemed to be happening in the audiophile community as Ascend Acoustics announced their new "reference" bookshelf speakers, the Sierra-1's. Long time lovers of the brand were putting their beloved speakers up for sale with the Sierra-1's on pre-order. Sight unseen, ear unheard, the Sierra's were being compared and debated against speakers many times their price. As bookshelf speakers go, they aren't the cheapest but this is definitely a case of "you get what you pay for." And you're getting a lot. The bass and treble extension seems out of place in the same box. Usually you hope for one or the other. In this case, you get both and in a bookshelf package.
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/ascend-acoustics-sierra-1/image_thumb

Discuss "Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 Bookshelf Speaker Review" here. Read the article (http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/ascend-acoustics-sierra-1).

[Geoh]

Great review as always!
You mentioned the Usher 520s but never, at least I didn't see it, mention how the Sierra's compared to them?
Also you weren't completely happy with the Sierra's midrange, was that because of the bass heaviness and it's masking effect or was there something else?
One more question if you will, have you heard the NHT Classic Three's. If so any thoughts on how the Sierra's and Three's would match up?
Thanks for the timely review,
Regards,
geoh

[Matt34]

Wow, great review! So that was what all the hoopla was about.


They sure do look better than the plain-jane 340se.

[Davemcc]

I read that they are not cheap and that you get what you pay for. How much is that, exactly?

[avaserfi]

I read that they are not cheap and that you get what you pay for. How much is that, exactly?

Base is 800 a pair, with options you can get a bit higher, but not much.

http://ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1.html

[STRONGBADF1]

I read that they are not cheap and that you get what you pay for. How much is that, exactly?


Hi Davemmc,

$798 per pair in natural, $858 for piano black, and $20 per speaker for shielding.

Yea i've been looking at these...:)

SBF1

[STRONGBADF1]

Base is 800 a pair, with options you can get a bit higher, but not much.

http://ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1.html


Good job quickdraw!:D

SBF1

[Reorx]

Great review as always!
You mentioned the Usher 520s but never, at least I didn't see it, mention how the Sierra's compared to them?
Also you weren't completely happy with the Sierra's midrange, was that because of the bass heaviness and it's masking effect or was there something else?
One more question if you will, have you heard the NHT Classic Three's. If so any thoughts on how the Sierra's and Three's would match up?
Thanks for the timely review,
Regards,
geoh
The review wasnt ment to be compaired to other speakers. It was about the Sierra's. The up and coming bookshelf shoot out will compare everything.

What's odd, is that when I heard the Sierra's, the bass was tight and very accurate. And I thought I heard the midrange just fine.

When doing reviews, do you just take them out of the box, plug them in, and listen? Or do they get fully calibrated, then reviewed? The only thing mentioned that I saw was the positioning, ie: toe'ing them in.

The SPL vs Freq graph looks very similar to what was posted on Ascends website. The 3khz dip is there. Though above that (4khz+), the Ascend graph is pretty flat, where Tom's graph had it higher. Could this be because of the environment it was tested in? in a chamber vs in a real room?

Decent review. I am still on the fence, it seems like they are up there with the RBH's MC-6C's, and the Ushers. I look forward to the bookshelf shootout.

Thanks.

Reorx

[Jason Coleman]

I snagged a pair of the naturals on the day they came out and have never looked back. Great speaker and huge sound in a small hefty package. I'm in the process of building matching stands right now. I'm using the Sierras in a dedicated 2-channel no-sub setup in our office. Fantastic laid-back sound and very detailed and articulate. Plenty of bass for a small to midsized room with no need for a sub (for music at least). Only caveat is that they aren't terribly efficient. I'll consider adding a 2-channel amp at some point in the future. Right now I'm using a Pio Elite 55txi to power them. I've been very happy with their performance and people never cease to be amazed at the quality and quantity of sound these speakers can put out.

J.

[sam1000]

Is the shootout Tom mentioned involves blind test? In that case, it would be really interesting to see whether the testers can identify the recessed midrange of Ascend Vs the midrange of s520. Same thing with the Bass accuracy. Tom loves s520 way too much :-) At least he admitted that the comparison was not blind.
User is getting good reviews everywhere, I'm going to audition it at a dealer in next few days.

[gene]

Is the shootout Tom mentioned involves blind test? In that case, it would be really interesting to see whether the testers can identify the recessed midrange of Ascend Vs the midrange of s520. Same thing with the Bass accuracy. Tom loves s520 way too much :-) At least he admitted that the comparison was not blind.
User is getting good reviews everywhere, I'm going to audition it at a dealer in next few days.

We didn't directly compare the Ushers with the Ascends. The Ascends are in a different class all together. We put speakers of similar pricing up against each other and heard quite a dramatic increase in fidelity from the $400/pr to $800/pr price class as expected.

For now lets keep the this thread on topic and start a face off review thread once that review is posted. thanks.

[billnchristy]

These are very pretty speakers.

I am seriously contemplating building a set of bookshelfs with that tweeter and maybe a 7" hi-vi.

[silversurfer]

These are very pretty speakers.

I am seriously contemplating building a set of bookshelfs with that tweeter and maybe a 7" hi-vi.
Will you do your own crossover too? That seems to be a pretty exclusive piece to the Sierra. The tweeter is supposedly customized for Ascend. I have seen a similar tweeter on Totem's wall mount speaker.

[PatrickBateman]

These are very pretty speakers.

I am seriously contemplating building a set of bookshelfs with that tweeter and maybe a 7" hi-vi.
I am pretty sure the tweeter is custom made for Ascend.

[Matt34]

I am pretty sure the tweeter is custom made for Ascend.

Text taken from AcsendAcoustic's owner David F description of the tweeter used in the Sierra 1.


In order to realize our goal of reducing the negative acoustic effects caused by each loudspeaker component, the Sierra would require a special tweeter. In addition to my typical requirements (linear on- and off-axis response and excellent extension), I demanded an exceptionally clean spectral decay combined with very low distortion. Of course, our good friends at SEAS of Norway were once again up to the task.

SEAS engineers recommended a new tweeter currently under development that I could customize to suit Ascend’s needs. Of course, this new tweeter took a bit longer than expected, but the first samples finally arrived and the results were very impressive. This new tweeter has a few unique features. It contains an integrated slightly elliptical wave guide made of flexible and absorbent elastomer. The subtle shaping helps control the off-axis response and aids in the reduction of diffraction, while the elastomer material helps absorb stray high-frequency wavelengths. The wave guide insert also has the added benefit of covering the magnet assembly screws, thus eliminating the pesky reflections these cause.

The tweeter also contains an extremely wide integrated surround (the part of the tweeter that attaches the dome to the faceplate). This serves to better dampen the dome, thus reducing various resonances and break-up modes.

We added our own customizations to this already superb tweeter to further improve performance.




The final result is a tweeter with an extremely impressive spectral decay. Both harmonic and IM distortion are extremely low and the frequency response is smooth and linear both on- and off-axis. This tweeter is incredibly natural sounding, with a clear and detailed character that is crisp without ever being fatiguing. It literally oozes that magical “airy” sound that is so elusive yet critical to a high-end loudspeaker.

Tweeter Features:

* Fully manufactured by SEAS of Norway
* 26mm high-definition pre-coated fabric dome
* Fully integrated slightly elliptical wave guide made from elastomer to reduce diffraction and control off-axis response
* Integrated wide surround for reducing resonance and break-up modes
* Low viscosity magnetic fluid for improved power handling and damping
* Pole piece damping chamber to absorb back-wave reflections and lower the resonance frequency
* Exceptionally clean spectral decay and low distortion for greater detail and improved accuracy

[WmAx]

Will you do your own crossover too? That seems to be a pretty exclusive piece to the Sierra. The tweeter is supposedly customized for Ascend. I have seen a similar tweeter on Totem's wall mount speaker.

As for good tweeters with typical monopole off axis response, very flat response, superb CSD and very low distortion, get a BG NEO 3 PDR. In addition to all of these traits you seem to want, it is an almost perfect resistive load (it's a planar), and can be used down to 2000Hz with appropriate crossover, making it extremely easy to integrate with a wide selection of mid-bass drivers.

The only notable thing about that tweeter, compared to what you can typically get DIY, is the waveguide. A waveguide (used on pro monitors for many years now) removes the edge diffraction disturbances that occur when the tweeter's sound pressure waves meet a sudden pressure change at the cabinet edges. The waveguide focuses the energy to be distributed more on axis, to remove the stray off axis energy. Of course, this further limited off axis response may not be desired, depending on the objective/end use of the speaker. But that's another topic. You can achieve the same diffraction reducing effect, with wider dispersion(a desirable thing in normal circumstances), by using very large radius on the cabinet edges (2"-3" for example). However, this can often lead to large increases in cabinet production cost, and as such, is a fairly rare feature in low and moderate cost production speakers. You can also make a waveguide if you have a lathe, and copy the profile of a known working unit. Or you can buy some plastic shallow horn waveguides, which are appropriate, if you shave the back off and mount the tweeter to the back at the appropriate depth. Zaph Audio DIY blog site has such an example thoroughly documented along with part numbers and sources. [Note: I do not endrose the Zaph site, I only refer to it in the specific citation of the DIY waveguide]

The Seas tweeter used by Ascend may be a nice integrated package. But I don't believe it's available to DIYers yet, and I am not sure of the cost. Will it be cost effective for DIY, as compared to the alternate methods to achieve the same effect it offers?

Another issue here is the cabinet. Due to the inherent increased stiffness of the bamboo, it would be substantially less resonant than a MDF cabinet of equal construction dimensions/bracing. While still not likely to be non-resonant, it would likely be a large improvement. This needs to be considered in the DIY cabinets. Typical MDF box construction methods/bracing, IMO, is worthless, for a supposed high-fidelity loudspeaker. The reviewer also commented that the speaker used what looks like fiberglass board cut up and placed in bags in the speaker. Could this be rigid fiberglass board? Like OC705 or equivalent? If so, it would be rare that a speaker manufacture bothers to use extremely high quality acoustic damping material. Normally, a low density fiberglass, low quality thin foam, or low density Dacron/poly fill is used. Usually sub-optimal. This should also be considered in the DIY design.

The Sierra, according to the manufacturer, uses a very low distortion mid-bass with long linear excursion/incursion. The surround of the mid-bass certainly appears to be unusually capable, though this is only superficial evidence. But let's assume this speaker really does have the non-linear distortion vs. excursion performance of say for example, a premium Seas Excel driver.

Overall, it would appear the Sierra is one hell of a well engineered speaker for it's retail price class.

-Chris

[billnchristy]

Here is the link for the tweet:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_270_324&products_id=1591

As for the X-over I was thinking about letting madisound design it with LEAP.

[silversurfer]

Here is the link for the tweet:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_270_324&products_id=1591

As for the X-over I was thinking about letting madisound design it with LEAP.
Yeah, externally it looks the same, but my understanding is that there are modifications internally. According to a post on the AVS forum, the one you linked to is not chambered(also the Seas site does not list it as chambered), but the one Ascend uses is. My guess Ascend combined some aspects to get a custom version of this tweeter.

To my knowledge, I don't think LEAP can create a variable slope crossover with the phase aspects of the Ascend crossover.

What other speakers have you built and why do you want to build a Sierra clone?

[Tex-amp]

Here is the link for the tweet:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_229_270_324&products_id=1591

As for the X-over I was thinking about letting madisound design it with LEAP.


Silversurfer is correct the tweeter in your link isn't a chambered tweeter and the Ascend version in the Sierra is.

[billnchristy]

Im sorry dude, but there is no voodoo in this:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/images/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1xover1.jpg

[silversurfer]

Im sorry dude, but there is no voodoo in this:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/images/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1xover1.jpg
OK, I see now, you are being obtuse for some reason. I have a feeling it is because you are an AV123 fan. This is a cool site, I sincerely hope that is not the reason.

That is externally, you have no clue as to how it is wired. Have you read about the crossover? Or do you just look at pictures? :)

No one said voodoo. Just good engineering that you can not get from an automated program.

So back to the question, why do you want to clone a Sierra, or is there a point you are trying to prove or make?

[Seth=L]

OK, I see now, you are being obtuse for some reason. I have a feeling it is because you are an AV123 fan. This is a cool site, I sincerely hope that is not the reason.


I have never seen cross-over voodoo, so I am not even sure were that even came from.:confused: (I love the word "obtuse":D)

[silversurfer]

Seriously, he/she comes into a perfectly good thread , talks about making a clone of the speaker rather than discussing the review, shows pictures of tweeters and crossovers, does not intelligently address anybody that replied to him, talks of voodoo, without once mentioning anything constructive, or even destructive.

Looks like some kind of agenda to me. If you don't like something, come out and say it and discuss it, not degrade the board.

[silversurfer]

(I love the word "obtuse":D)

Got to admit, it is not a word I use everyday. :)

[Clint DeBoer]

There is a great DIY forum (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22) on this site for building your own speakers.

[billnchristy]

I said they look like a very nice speaker.

I cannot speak for how they sound because I have not heard them.

As for my comments on the crossover...it is a passive crossover, it cannot do magic.

That does not mean for a second that it is not a good crossover, it certainly looks like it has good components in it, but what I am saying is all those words on the website really don't mean jack to me because it is a standard passive crossover.

Now, what does my liking of a brand of speaker have to do with anything?

Could I say that you being an Ascend fan makes you high and mighty because you sure are acting that way?

Oh and you are right, it looks like they modded the tweeter but I would guess the original model is pretty good.

Lastly, how is building a similar speaker in any way bad? I would think it would be a hommage to a nice design.

Fact is, I like the waveguide tweet, was looking at it before I even saw the Sierra and actually had a pair in my shopping cart. Then I started reading about the sierras and actually figured they were way more expensive than they are...they seem like a pretty good value considering their components and construction.

Now, why is it you insisted to jump me again?

[MUDSHARK]

Well written review. As the reviewer suggested I have had the Outlaw sub set to 80 although these speakers output a prodigious amount of bass. I have not heard the fluctuation in the midrange and in fact, consider the mid-range the best quality of these speakers. The tweeter is rather bright initially and room acoustics have a material effect. I hooked the Sierra to my Bryston in the den and noticed a significantly more smooth brass reproduction although not quite to the refined level of my Kappas. My only real difference of opinion concerns the value rating. In my mind, only the Mackie's at 1,200 a pair give a better value of all the speakers inside of $1,500 a pair that I have heard over the last few years.

[billnchristy]

Late addition as I didnt answer all your questions, and I am sorry it took me a while, I dont check this site as often as others.

What have I built?

Mostly full range single drivers, a pair of Jordan JX92s, a pair of TB-593s and a matching 5.25" sub.

I have built a set of omnis but the driver quality was low and my X-over skills are not all that great, which is why I am trying to learn. (with great support from my fellow hobbists may I add ;) )

I have built probably 50-60 subs though, I used to install when I was a teenager.

Next project is a tiny sub with 2 mpyre 6.5" to replace my X-sub...after that...who knows?

I really need to finish my HT before any more projects, but they are so much fun.

Sorry to derail this thread too...no more from me, will take to PM.

If anyone in Atlanta has a set of these I would love to hear them and will bring over my Jordans to compare with...which will get seriously whooped in the bass department.

[Seth=L]

As for my comments on the crossover...it is a passive crossover, it cannot do magic.


Don't take this as an attack or even a retort, but most speakers don't have active cross-overs and I for one didn't expect these speakers to be any different from so many others. What would the merit be of a active/variable x-over in a properly designed and manufactured speaker system? For a DIY I could see it, but not for an engineered speaker system.

Again, not an attack, just not sure where you were going with the x-over not being "active".;):)

[silversurfer]

Late addition as I didnt answer all your questions, and I am sorry it took me a while, I dont check this site as often as others.

What have I built?

Mostly full range single drivers, a pair of Jordan JX92s, a pair of TB-593s and a matching 5.25" sub.

I have built a set of omnis but the driver quality was low and my X-over skills are not all that great, which is why I am trying to learn. (with great support from my fellow hobbists may I add ;) )

I have built probably 50-60 subs though, I used to install when I was a teenager.

Next project is a tiny sub with 2 mpyre 6.5" to replace my X-sub...after that...who knows?

I really need to finish my HT before any more projects, but they are so much fun.

Sorry to derail this thread too...no more from me, will take to PM.

If anyone in Atlanta has a set of these I would love to hear them and will bring over my Jordans to compare with...which will get seriously whooped in the bass department.
So you post without reading? There is at least another question you have not answered. I'll wait for the PM.

Single driver speakers and subwoofers are a "bit" different than building a two way speaker.

Yes, take it to PM, it should be interesting.

And I am an Ascend fan? No more than I am an AV123 fan. I am a fan of what sounds good to me, and good value, and for this board, good discussion. It's funny, over on the AV123 thread, you mention "Ascend killer". :)

[WmAx]

Don't take this as an attack or even a retort, but most speakers don't have active cross-overs and I for one didn't expect these speakers to be any different from so many others. What would the merit be of a active/variable x-over in a properly designed and manufactured speaker system?

A variable slope x-over has it's applications. One of the primary reasons to use one is if the designer wants the target response(on and/or off axis) of one type of crossover, but not the negative side effects(if it's a shallow slope, for example) associated with that topology. As an example: a shallow slope could be used to achieve a specific narrow phase angle change through a certain bandwidth, and then another can be cascaded further into the xover range to increase the slope(to prevent excessive cross-driver interferance off axis, or to reduce upper band resonances, etc.) after a critical pass band to get [most of] the desirable traits from both topologies. While this is never a perfect solution, it can be a good compromise in certain applications.

-Chris

[Seth=L]

A variable slope x-over has it's applications. One of the primary reasons to use one is if the designer wants the target response(on and/or off axis) of one type of crossover, but not the negative side effects(if it's a shallow slope, for example) associated with that topology. As an example: a shallow slope could be used to achieve a specific narrow phase angle change through a certain bandwidth, and then another can be cascaded further into the xover range to increase the slope(to prevent excessive cross-driver interferance off axis, or to reduce upper band resonances, etc.) after a critical pass band to get [most of] the desirable traits from both topologies. While this is never a perfect solution, it can be a good compromise in certain applications.

-Chris
You need to change your signature to say "The more you know" and there should also be a short audio clip of a short jingle.:D I have never seen/known a single person that has so much knowledge about speakers (at least from what I have seen from your posts.:)).

[Matt34]

You need to change your signature to say "The more you know" and there should also be a short audio clip of a short jingle.:D I have never seen/known a single person that has so much knowledge about speakers (at least from what I have seen from your posts.:)).

He could have wrote that in Spanish and got the same response out of me. ---->:confused:




:p

[Seth=L]

He could have wrote that in Spanish and got the same response out of me. ---->:confused:




:p
Are you in the States right now?

If you are, why are you still awake, being awake at this hour means you have no life, perfect example: the guy making this post.:D

[Jason Coleman]

Wow...3 pages and not a single mention of the Sierra.

J.

[billnchristy]

SethL,

Yeah I know that just about every speaker uses a passive x-over and it really is the weakness of just about every speaker.

Granted there are some really fine ones out there, and I am sure the Sierra is a true example of that...it has very nice looking components which is a place a lot of manufacturers skimp (yes even av123). But I know a lot of people would be really upset about paying an extra $200 because the crossover has that much in components.

The point about the passives was this:

They all introduce phase issues, they all suck power and due to their basic nature all introduce another problem when you fix another (such as an impedence or spl rise).

Again I would really like to hear some, but I am afraid they would be too bright to me, but definitely would give them a chance!!

Another thing I said on AV123 was:

I like the design, I like the enclosure, the dampening is super cool (I was actually thinking of trying something similar but with steel wool just for kicks), the drivers are great even stock etc...

Oh and the thing about the ascend killer was this:

The upgraded X-LS EX is supposed to match the 340 so I was asking if the upcoming super wave guide was supposed to be a match for the Sierra...most likely I wont touch either one because I didn't like the EX tweeter when I heard it open baffle on the X-statik.

I hope all the hatchets are buried becuase I didnt mean to start a fight. :p

[silversurfer]

I hope all the hatchets are buried becuase I didnt mean to start a fight. :p
Well...no hatchet to bury, and you didn't post the "nice" stuff on AV123 until after I busted your chops here. :)

Looks like someone had to correct you about the X-LS EX and 170SE/340SE.

Here was the "killer" comment I was talking about:
I was wondering if the X-SWG is supposed to be a Sierra killer?
It is funny because from what I can tell, the EX and SWG are not even available and you want to compare.

From my reading BTW, it seems the Sierra is more refined in the treble than the 340SE.

[billnchristy]

I did say supposed...that means: is that the purpose of this design, to compete with the sierra?

And yeah I do make mistakes...human and all :p

[silversurfer]

I did say supposed...that means: is that the purpose of this design, to compete with the sierra?

And yeah I do make mistakes...human and all :p
Well, mention of the SWG was months before the Sierra was announced, so I doubt it.

Why not speculate what the Sierra is suppose to compete with?

[billnchristy]

I think the Sierra competes with any bookshelf in the 800-1500 dollar range.

That was easy. ;)

[silversurfer]

I got a feeling that is being conservative, especially when guys on the AV123 thread are comparing it to the Ref 1, and others I have read are comparing it to the BW 805S and DynAudio Focus 140.

Then again, I have not heard the thing yet.

[billnchristy]

Me neither! Nor have I heard the ref 1 or any bookshelf that cost over the cost of my Jordans.

I would love to hear all you list though.

[WmAx]

The point about the passives was this:

They all introduce phase issues,

That is also true of active crossovers. Even if you use a DSP active that uses convolution to provide linear phase; it will only = true for a given narrow design axis. As soon as you move off this narrow design axis, standard driver arrangements have substantial deviations in amplitude/phase response. You can only correct for one point.

Again I would really like to hear some, but I am afraid they would be too bright to me, but definitely would give them a chance!!

I suspect that would be true. But they look like they would be great to use with a quality equalizer. In fact, anyone whom really wants the ideal preference sound needs an equalizer. :)



I like the design, I like the enclosure, the dampening is super cool (I was actually thinking of trying something similar but with steel wool just for kicks), the drivers are great even stock etc...

Some 6-8 lb./ft^3 density mineral wool board is an ideal material. Has almost the exact properties of OC705, so far as acoustic absorption, but is much cheaper than OC.

-Chris

[billnchristy]

That is also true of active crossovers. Even if you use a DSP active that uses convolution to provide linear phase; it will only = true for a given narrow design axis. As soon as you move off this narrow design axis, standard driver arrangements have substantial deviations in amplitude/phase response. You can only correct for one point.

True, but I bet a solution for active comes before passive.

Thanks for the heads up on the mineral wool, where would I find some?

[gus6464]

I got a feeling that is being conservative, especially when guys on the AV123 thread are comparing it to the Ref 1, and others I have read are comparing it to the BW 805S and DynAudio Focus 140.

Then again, I have not heard the thing yet.

The bass on the B&W 805S is bleh. Not even a $12000 McIntosh and the most acoutically treated room ever could help them. But they do have mids and imaging that are out of this world.

[WmAx]

True, but I bet a solution for active comes before passive.

In the case of a *standard* driver arrangement, I am not aware of how this would be over come. But then there is the issue that linear phase has not been shown to be needed by any credible perceptual research. In fact, with real music program, it is shown to be largely irrelevant in [1] past credible research.

Thanks for the heads up on the mineral wool, where would I find some?

Your local commercial insulation contractor/supplier house. If it's hard to find, I can send you enough for a speaker pair for cost of the parcel post shipping and actual material cost(less then the parcel post).

-Chris

Footnotes
[1]
On the Audibility of Midrange Phase Distortion in Audio Systems
Stanley P. Lipshitz, Mark Pocock and John Vanderkooy
JAES, Vol. 30, No. 9, September, 1982, Pages 580-595

[silversurfer]

The bass on the B&W 805S is bleh.
That is the second time I have read something to that affect in the last couple of days.

[Tex-amp]

Im sorry dude, but there is no voodoo in this:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/images/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1xover1.jpg

OPPIX stands for Optimized Paradromic Phase Integrated X-Over (crossover). This sophisticated variable slope crossover precisely aligns the acoustic phase response of multiple transducers at the exact point where the response of one transducer crosses over to another, with reference to a specific point in space. This precise alignment allows the transducers to mimic a single point source radiator, allowing for symmetrical dispersion even with an asymmetrical transducer layout while maintaining a linear frequency response and greatly reducing off-axis phase and response anomalies. It also avoids the undesirable frequency response anomalies commonly found with even the best coaxial drivers. http://ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1tech.html

[Tex-amp]

We didn't directly compare the Ushers with the Ascends. The Ascends are in a different class all together. We put speakers of similar pricing up against each other and heard quite a dramatic increase in fidelity from the $400/pr to $800/pr price class as expected.


So are the rating then for speakers within its' own class?

[billnchristy]

Yeah I have read that Tex-amp.

Can you explain how it does that with inductors, caps and resistors though?

[Tom Andry]

Sorry for the late comments. Been out of town since this review was posted. Listening tests were done in my room non-blind. No matter what speaker review you read, you always need to hear them in your room to determine how your room will affect the sound. In my room, the bass was a bit heavy which affected how the midrange sounded. You may (and from reading this thread, some already have had) a different experience. Still, all in all, a very nice speaker with an absolutely beautiful finish. I LOVE bamboo and, as Gene, Clint, and J can attest, that was one inert cabinet. If the Sierra's are in your price range, they should definitely be added to your short list.

[gus6464]

That is the second time I have read something to that affect in the last couple of days.

Although with a small musical sub to complement them you would be in 2ch heaven.

[davef]

Hi billnchristy,

Can you explain how it does that with inductors, caps and resistors though?

I can, but then I would have to shoot you ;)

There is no "voodoo" (using your own terminology) in the actual crossover.

The "voodoo" took place well before the crossover was designed. The voodoo was in designing the filters, Q, and phase response needed to achieve the dispersion characteristics that we were going after, what we call OPPIX -- which is a major component of the Sierra's exceptional imaging, as Tom made reference to in his review.

Once the desired response was modeled, we used digitally programmable filters to match the computer modeled response so we could test acoustically. Further tweaks were performed and the end result was that we had very precise filter specifications. From there it was a matter of designing the crossover that would come as close as to our target filters as possible, and then reducing crossover components while still coming exceptionally close to the target.

There is no "magic" in any passive (or active) filter that I know of.. The filters (crossover) are just the mechanical method of "how to get there".

In response to your question: Can you explain how it does that with inductors, caps and resistors though?

Inductors, capacitors and resistors are the components needed to implement simple and complex filters and various other circuits required (from shallow slopes to steep slopes, impedance compensation, frequency response shaping and phase adjustments)

The real magic (or "voodoo") is knowing what to design for (and why) and then how to go about achieving this.

LEAP (as you previously mentioned) is a quick and dirty way to design standard filter topologies which can provide flat on-axis response (Linkwitz-Riley, Butterworth etc.) These often provide good results with predictable characteristics. Designing filters for which phase, off-axis dispersion, impedance and response shaping are all taken into consideration (for which specific characterstics of each are desired) is far more complex. You have to KNOW what your target is.

I am 100% for building and designing your own loudspeakers. Eventually, after much time spent and constant tweaking, you could end up with something that sounds better "to you" than a higher priced professionally engineered and designed product -- however, designing loudspeakers to appeal to tens (hundreds) of thousands of people is something else entirely.

How much free time do you have to spend modeling phase and dispersion characteristics and how they will react in various rooms? (if you had the knowledge to do so) I don't just mean a few hours a week, I am talking hundreds and hundreds of hours spent just on modeling. From there it was designing and choosing the components to *get there*

Certainly no magic in the crossover itself.... Is the "magic" in the magician's wand? The hat? The table? The Rabbit? Nope -- the magic is in putting all the non-magical parts together to achieve that seemingly magical reaction…

For anyone interested in the Sierra-1, I invite you to email me directly at davef -AT- ascendacoustics.com (I don't have enough posts to publish my email address)

Take care!!

[billnchristy]

Thanks Dave, that is just what I needed.

I would love to have access to that kind of gear. ;)

It sounds like you guys certainly hit the nail on the head considering the only "bad" thing that was said about the speakers was too much bass, and that is very subjective indeed.

And you are right, it is very easy to please yourself but not so easy to please the masses, I have learned that with the looks of my PC speaker design.

Thanks for the response and I hope to get to hear your gems some day.

[Tex-amp]

Yeah I have read that Tex-amp.

Can you explain how it does that with inductors, caps and resistors though?

If I could, then it wouldn't be voodoo would it?

[billnchristy]

Hahaha. :p

I think Dave did a pretty good job, though it seems more like pre-engineering than anything...

Mfrs have it good being able to have speakers built to their exact specs. I am truly envious of that!

[silversurfer]

What is "pre-engineering"? It is all engineering.

[billnchristy]

You get your jollies busting my balls dont you professor?

:rolleyes:

[silversurfer]

You get your jollies busting my balls dont you professor?

:rolleyes:
Well, there wouldn't be any ball busting if you made smarter posts. I know you are capable of it. :)

though it seems more like pre-engineering than anything...

But seriously, how do you define "pre-engineering" and how do you seperate it from the engineering or the design process? This is not about busting your balls, but understanding your train of thought.

[Seth=L]

how do you define "pre-engineering" and how do you seperate it from the engineering or the design process?
Pre - En-gen-eer-ing (noun): what Bose's marketing team did before they decided to engineer and manufacture cheap crappy speakers and sell them for ridiculously high prices.

How is that?:D

[Tex-amp]

Hahaha. :p

I think Dave did a pretty good job, though it seems more like pre-engineering than anything...

Mfrs have it good being able to have speakers built to their exact specs. I am truly envious of that!

I completely missed page 6 to know that Ascend answered your question.

[Clint DeBoer]

So are the rating then for speakers within its' own class?Always. .

[Clint DeBoer]

And you are right, it is very easy to please yourself but not so easy to please the masses, I have learned that with the looks of my PC speaker design.And this is a great point for all. Anyone is welcome to build a speaker on their own, in fact we encourage it - what a great experience. But there aren't many people who can afford the level of trial and error to get experience to compete with a manufacturer who has tried tens (or in the case of long-standing companies, hundreds) of designs and modifications before settling on a final loudspeaker model.

[Tex-amp]

Always. .


Is there a breakdown of price range that defines a speaker class somewhere?

[tt_toe]

How soon will the shootout be out?

I'm interested in the Sierra-1's, but also considering:

Paradigm Studio 20 V.4
NHT Classic 3
B&W 685

Thanks.

[Phernamar]

I snagged a pair of the naturals on the day they came out and have never looked back. Great speaker and huge sound in a small hefty package. I'm in the process of building matching stands right now. I'm using the Sierras in a dedicated 2-channel no-sub setup in our office. Fantastic laid-back sound and very detailed and articulate. Plenty of bass for a small to midsized room with no need for a sub (for music at least). Only caveat is that they aren't terribly efficient. I'll consider adding a 2-channel amp at some point in the future. Right now I'm using a Pio Elite 55txi to power them. I've been very happy with their performance and people never cease to be amazed at the quality and quantity of sound these speakers can put out.

J.

So what do you mean by a small/midsize room? This past Friday I ordered that last available pair of Sierras (at least until November) and they're on the way. My room is 17'x22'. It has brick floors and 10ft. wood beamed ceilings. I hope the speakers fit the bill. Receiver is a Denon DRA-6971 and player is Denon DVD-3910. This will be, by far, the nicest gear I've ever owned so I'll probably be happy no matter what. But your comment about the room size has me a bit concerned.

[Phernamar]

My Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1s arrived last night. I'd been waiting all day, constantly tracking the box through UPS, driving my wife nuts. But anyway - they are elegant little gems. Like the reviews say, they have a beautiful, clear high end which makes vocals and solo strings sound great. You can hear both breath and bow. There is plenty of midrange, though it is understated so that your ears don't get tired. The amount of bass is truly surprising for the size of speaker - clean and focused. I am using garden-variety speaker cables at this point. When my new ones arrive, I imagine these speakers will sound even better.

This is my first decent gear ever and I'm pretty darn happy.