Don't connect AMP to UPS or Power Conditioner --->>> ?? [Archive]

nasd90

06-13-2007, 08:30 AM

avaserfi

06-13-2007, 09:00 AM

I haven't heard this before but I know my power conditioner has a spot specifically labeled for high currents and in that section one plug is labeled amp. So Belkin thinks its okay atleast.

nasd90

06-13-2007, 09:02 AM

Yes, Sir. That's the one.

WmAx

06-13-2007, 09:06 AM

Well, I can not imagine the reasoning for such a warning.

A good UPS simply creates a clean sine wave of the desired voltage in absence of normal line voltage.

However, your amplifier, from the picture, appears to be substantial. You might (?) need a commercial grade 2000VA large capacity UPS to drive that unit off of battery power.

-Chris

nasd90

06-13-2007, 09:09 AM

I'm planning on using this Line Interactive UPS:

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=3489

TrippLite SMART220SLT

I figured this would be ok, but Earthquake says no.

Nick

adk highlander

06-13-2007, 09:12 AM

I have been through this same question with Emotiva over my recent MPS-1 purchase. Lonnie (very knowledgeable and helpful tech support) told me the same thing.

If I remember correct it was as much to do with having all of the equipment going through a conditioner (pre amp, tv, sat etc.) may over draw that curcuit. Also he stated that their equipment is designed to be plugged directly into the outlet and that the amp has its own protection built in (fuses). I apologize if am not 100% accurate in how I explained this but the jist is add a new 20amp curcuit, plug that sucker in and enjoy.

nasd90

06-13-2007, 10:18 AM

Ohhhh... I have to get a 20amp circuit installed ? I didn't even think about that. It won't work with what's there now ? I'm not even sure what regular circuits are...

Not an electrician... :(

Nick

avaserfi

06-13-2007, 10:45 AM

I'm not sure if you need a 20amp circuit installed but the typical circuit is 15amps I believe. You might want to check your new amps instruction manual to see if they make recommendations, it seems like something they would mention or you could always call them back and as again.

bongobob

06-13-2007, 11:52 AM

I haven't heard this before but I know my power conditioner has a spot specifically labeled for high currents and in that section one plug is labeled amp. So Belkin thinks its okay atleast.

Same thing on my APC conditioner. I run my Adcom through the high current outlet and have all my other gear running through the unit as well with no problems.

I would think the amps internal protection might be against large spikes but won't level out the voltage like a true conditioner. I've seen the dips and peaks register on the APC as it levels things out. That fluctuation can't be good for any piece of electronic equipment.....

Haoleb

06-13-2007, 01:56 PM

The main reason they are likely telling you not to plug it into the conditioner is like others have mentioned, The current draw. When you start plugging an entire system into a single component the amps can start to add up pretty quick. I would not say its bad advice. The maker of my amplfiiers also reccomends plugging directly into the wall and I do even though i have a monster power conditioner with "high current" outlets.

Regarding 20 amp outlets, Its always good if you have a dedicated line for your equipment, even a couple. You can run most all gear off a standard outlet which is 15amp. Keep in mind however that that single circuit could be running all the plugs in your room or whatever other crazy scheme the electrician could come up with.

gene

06-13-2007, 02:01 PM

I am getting an EarthQuake Sound Cinenova 5 delivered today and I've been chit-chatting with their not so descriptive and not so helpful support team through email and they've told me NOT to connect the amp directly to either a line-interactive UPS OR a power conditioner... to just plug it directly into the wall. I'm assuming I could at least use a power strip.

He said it would be "Not good for the amp." regarding the Line-Interactive UPS and to "connect power to the wall", and for the power conditioner he said "MAKE SURE NOT TO CONNECT THE CINENOVA TO A POWER CONDITIONER."

So, my questions are... Does this seem right ? Are all amps like this ?

This is only true if you choose a crappy power conditioner that uses a variac to regulate the voltage. Believe it or not some of the BIG brand power conditioners still do this. If you choose a reputable conditioner from the likes of APC for example, this will NEVER be an issue.

Check out the article I wrote which discusses this:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/on-location-articles/audioholics-on-spot-location-apc-av

jcPanny

06-13-2007, 05:31 PM

I have the lower end APC H10 power center protecting all of my gear including a receiver, Emotiva Amp, sub, TV, etc. Under normal conditions the APC indicates that it is at 20% of capacity so I am not too concerned about current surges from the amp.

I can understand why you might want a surge protector or line conditioner on the amp, but whey would you need battery backup?

mnnc

06-13-2007, 07:07 PM

This is strange to me but then again I'm fairly new to the 'audio' world.

I am getting an EarthQuake Sound Cinenova 5 delivered today and I've been chit-chatting with their not so descriptive and not so helpful support team through email and they've told me NOT to connect the amp directly to either a line-interactive UPS OR a power conditioner... to just plug it directly into the wall. I'm assuming I could at least use a power strip.

He said it would be "Not good for the amp." regarding the Line-Interactive UPS and to "connect power to the wall", and for the power conditioner he said "MAKE SURE NOT TO CONNECT THE CINENOVA TO A POWER CONDITIONER."

So, my questions are... Does this seem right ? Are all amps like this ?

Thanks

Nick

Well first off...your new piece is sweet...and not cheap! I read PSaudio's site and they say plug their components directly into the wall UNLESS you are using one of their high-end conditioners!????? Is this bias? Stinks when the companies want to suck more of your blood/money leaving you unsure/uneasy about the security of your purchase.

I say protect it...listening for a difference in quality/sound.

PENG

06-13-2007, 08:53 PM

As gene said, if you choose a reputable one, it should not be an issue. The real issue is, this monster amp apparently has a 4 kVA transformer and can output a maximum of 300WX5 into 8 ohms or 600X5 into 4 ohms. Assuming the amp is 50% efficient, to output 1500W it has to take in 3000W, or close to 4000VA. So your 2200 VA, or 1600W UPS is not going to cut it. It will work (very rarely would an amp be required to deliver their maximum rated output to all 5 channels), but you may not benefit from the amp's full potential, depending on the kind of music/movies you play with it. This is only from the VA/W stand point. If that UPS has some sort of filtering device and/or current limiting device in series, it may or may not have adverse effects on your amp.

By the way, does the amp allow you to use two 20A circuits? If not, I hope they come with a 30A power cord so that you can run a separate 30A circuit for it.

davidtwotrees

06-14-2007, 09:27 AM

cruiseoveride

06-14-2007, 02:36 PM

Hey i think my question is similar to yours, so i thought ill post here.

I have just purchased a SVS PB12-Plus2 (in the mail) and i dont know how much power it needs. The manual is rather vague and only says

be certain your power outlet can handle a minimum of 900 watts. (Use of “convenience outlets” on receivers are not recommended for your SVS)

I have 2x outlets in my room, with 2x plugs possible in each outlet. So a total of 4x sockets from the wall. I have no idea what the rating on those are.

At the moment,
1x socket is hooked up to a power bar, and is got Computer + Mixer + misc attached to it.
1x socket is connected to a 1000watt 220volt step up transformer for my Nakamichi.
1x socket is connected to a Fender Guitar Amp

So i have 1 more wall socket.

Is it safe to connect my sub to it?

MDS

06-14-2007, 04:16 PM

Each 15 amp circuit in a house is capable of 1800 watts but multiple outlets may be on one circuit. The sub is not going to draw 900 watts continuously but it would be best if you can put it on a circuit that isn't already loaded with lots of other power hungry devices.

The cheapest way to test which outlets are part of one circuit would be to buy an outlet tester ($5-7 at Home Depot, Lowes). Then shut off the circuit breaker for that room and test each outlet to see which ones, if any, still has voltage. That one is not on the same circuit as the others.

Adam

06-14-2007, 04:30 PM

The cheapest way to test which outlets are part of one circuit would be to buy an outlet tester ($5-7 at Home Depot, Lowes). Then shut off the circuit breaker for that room and test each outlet to see which ones, if any, still has voltage. That one is not on the same circuit as the others.

That's good advice and checking the circuits. Couldn't you also just plug something in and see if it works, such as a night light (or anything else portable that plugs in)? That way you don't need to make a trip to buy an outlet tester.

darien87

06-14-2007, 05:15 PM

That's good advice and checking the circuits. Couldn't you also just plug something in and see if it works, such as a night light (or anything else portable that plugs in)? That way you don't need to make a trip to buy an outlet tester.Yeah. That will work too. I recently did this and found out that unfortunately most of my outlets in the living room are on 1 circuit. I was at least able to put one of my subs on a separate circuit from the rest of the gear.

MDS

06-14-2007, 05:17 PM

Plugging a light into every outlet will just tell you that the outlet is live. It won't tell if it is part of the same circuit as the others in the same room.

The room I use as my office has 6 outlets. 5 of them are on the same circuit and are killed by one breaker. The other one turns off with the next breaker that also controls the dining room and hall outlets. Same with my living room - one breaker turns off all outlets except one which is at the edge of the living room where it borders the kitchen.

An electrician explained to me that they start with the runs furthest from the breaker panel and they use all the available connections before moving on to the next breaker so that is why all the outlets in the room aren't always on the same breaker.

Adam

06-14-2007, 06:11 PM

Plugging a light into every outlet will just tell you that the outlet is live. It won't tell if it is part of the same circuit as the others in the same room.

MDS, I meant use a light instead of an outlet tester, but otherwise follow your procedure. So, still switch off the circuit breakers one at a time.

nasd90

06-14-2007, 07:24 PM

I haven't had a problem thus far with the Cinenova, it cranks.
The circuit hasn't blown and I've had it up fairly loud.

I gotta say, the amp is loud but I really can't tell until I crank it up... The Marantz SR8001 holds its own for a good time.

In any case, I'm minus the manual for the Cinenova Grande, long story...

If anyone has a manual (PDF) or could tell me exactly what:

---Range 20 Hz to 5 kHz (one/ channel)---

this means ? and how I should set it with my system ...

There's a dial and I can't figure it out.

THANKS FELLA'S.

Nick

Adam

06-14-2007, 07:44 PM

nasd90,

Try:

http://www.earthquakesound.com/IMAGEJP/HOME/PDF/cinenova16manual.pdf

It was for the Cinevo Grande 16. Hope that helps.

PENG

06-14-2007, 07:47 PM

A 30 amp circuit? Man, that's some power draw, isn't it. 20 amp decicated circuits are specified for microwaves, refrigorators, and A.C. units.! Electric stoves and dryers are 50 amps. Man, 30 amps to run his amplifier seems
drastic?!
Since we are on the subject, I may have read somewhere that not all pre amps and pre pros can handle high current, high watt amplifiers. Like big watt krells and what not. Is this true?! Does the OP have to worry about his pre handling this amp?!

I agree 30A seems drastic but you only need it if you use the amp to its limit. I suspect most people don't!
Think about it, this thing is rated for 5X300W into 8ohms 5X600W=3 kW into 4 ohms. That's equivalent to the power required by a 3 ton air conditioning unit. When you factor in the fact that class AB amplifiers do not do much better than 60%, to produce 3000W output that amp is going to draw 5000W from the outlet. Like a big base board heater! Again, that is an extreme case, in reality you are not going to draw 300W (not even in terms of peak demand) simultaneously from all 5 channels?

nasd90

06-14-2007, 07:50 PM

Adam,

Good find my friend.. I checked the 3, 5, & 7 and couldnt find it, I left out the 16 because it was physically a different amp. I'm checking it now.

thanks again, regardless!

Nick

Adam

06-14-2007, 07:59 PM

nasd90, I just read the description on the 7-channel amp (http://www.earthquakesound.com/cng_7.htm), and it had this to say:

"Each block features a built-in low pass/high pass variable filter; the fully buffered filter has a range of 20 Hz to 5 kHz. A 3-way switch controls the operation of the filter; with a simple flick of the switch, each amp can run in full range, low pass, or high pass mode."

So, here's my take on it. If you want to run full-range, set the switch to that. If you want a channel to only play frequencies up to a certain cut-off, set the dial to the cut-off frequency and select low pass. If you want a channel to only play frequencies above a certain cut-off, set the dial to the cut-off frequency and select high pass.

nasd90

06-14-2007, 08:09 PM

There's a 3 way switch for high-pass/low-pass/bypass AND there's a dial for

Range 20 Hz to 5 kHz (one/ channel)

This is where I am having difficulty on setting it exactly where it should be.

No worries, I'm going to look through the pdf in a bit and go see what I can 'adjust'... I've already got it set to : "bypass" because I want full range... I'm just wondering exactly where I should set the dial for the 20hz to 5khz...

Thanks man !!

Nick

Adam

06-14-2007, 08:14 PM

There's a 3 way switch for high-pass/low-pass/bypass AND there's a dial for

Range 20 Hz to 5 kHz (one/ channel)

I'm just wondering exactly where I should set the dial for the 20hz to 5khz...

Nick, sounds just like the description on the website. Don't worry about the dial when set to bypass. If you have the 3-way switch set to bypass, then the position of the dial (20 Hz to 5 kHz) should be irrelevant. The setting of the dial only matters if you have it set to high-pass or low-pass.

nasd90

06-14-2007, 08:31 PM

Ahhh... I see, I misunderstood. Thank you, I honestly was at a standstill.

Judging by my setup, should I have all the individual amps going to 'bypass' ?

I'm amazed how well the sound is... I'm actually starting to like SACD more & more regardless of the genre. DSOTM 5.1 was incredible, and I've ordered a couple more...

Thanks again,

Nick

Jaycan

06-15-2007, 03:05 PM

I have the same Grande 5 amp driving my center and sorround speakers, and a Levinson No 336 driving the fronts. Both amps are plugged into separate dedicated 20 amp circuits. Both are extremely powerful and heavy-Grande approx 125lbs, ML 150lbs. Both amps are rated 300w RMS into 8 ohms, and double the output with each halving of the load, down to 2 ohms, with no audible distortion. built like tanks. Never a hiccup. I play them very loud. The grande is a very under rated amp, in my opinion, is probably one of the best bang for the buck anywhere. This baby you will enjoy!

cruiseoveride

06-16-2007, 10:46 PM

thanks MDS, I didnt think of the simple power=VxI formula :)

Is there a gadget i can plug in between a device and the wall socket that will tell me actually how much power it is using?

WmAx

06-16-2007, 11:00 PM

thanks MDS, I didnt think of the simple power=VxI formula :)

Is there a gadget i can plug in between a device and the wall socket that will tell me actually how much power it is using?

Yes, a Kill-A-Watt meter would do the job. But it displays average slow time weighted values. Quick transients would not be displayed. You could use test signal that is continuous for a couple of seconds and get a sufficient reading. But music would not work very well. But a very high amplitude test signal risks damaging speaker drivers.

The Kill-A-Watt meter displays Volts, Amps and Power. It factors in Power Factor accurately, as verified by 3rd party analysis/comparison against accurate lab equipment.

Note: The Kill-A-Watt is rated up to 1875VA. Because of your unusually demanding amplifier, it is possible you could exceed the range that this device can measure, if at or near full output power.

-Chris

deftech

06-17-2007, 11:12 AM

I just bought a mcintosh mc 252. A mac rep said to go direct to the outlet. I have a belkin conditioner with a high current outlet. It is working fine thru it.
I would have to use an extension cord to go direct.