1080p hype??

[mouettus]

Took this article off XA2's review on HighDefDigest.com:

"1080p: Miracle Feature or Hype?

Exclusive to the HD-XA2 is the ability to output HD DVD video at 1080p resolution over HDMI. Previous HD DVD players maxed out at 1080i due to a limitation in their Broadcom decoder chips. In fact, the XA2 uses the same decoder chip. The video is decoded as 1080i and then run through the Reon processor downstream for deinterlacing to 1080p. Blu-ray players from Samsung and Panasonic work similarly. As such, you're not getting the original 1080p picture frames directly off the disc. They're interlaced and then deinterlaced after the fact."


What's the point then?!
Is that a problem (from a PQ standpoint)??
And is there a player that actually can transfer 1080p data directly to your tv?

[BMXTRIX]

The Pioneer Elite and the Sony Blu-ray players have the ability to output 1080p/24 video directly to your display. Very - VERY - few displays actually accept 1080p/24 data or display 1080p/24 correctly. The Pioneer 1080p plasma being one of the exceptions as well as a few front projectors including the Sony VP50 (pearl).

It is rumored that in an upcoming PS3 firmware release that the PS3 will also be able to output 1080p/24.

The interlacing/deinterlacing should not be an issue and should provide the best possible 1080p/60 video you could hope for on your display. Since the processing for this entirely occurs within the player, it should provide solidly clean video at the highest quality possible for 1080p/60. But, potentially 1080i/60 to your display could look just as good if your display properly deinterlaces 1080i/60 to 1080p/60.

[j_garcia]

Is this just conjecture or have you actually seen it and have an issue? The reality is, even at 1080i/720p it already looks pretty darn good. I think most people would have a hard time seeing a meaningful difference between 720p and 1080p.

[darien87]

Is this just conjecture or have you actually seen it and have an issue? The reality is, even at 1080i/720p it already looks pretty darn good. I think most people would have a hard time seeing a meaningful difference between 720p and 1080p.Also, can anyone but the most hardened videophiles even see the difference between 1080i and 1080p? I have yet to see interlacing on my TV with at 1080i picture.

[BMXTRIX]

Is this just conjecture or have you actually seen it and have an issue? The reality is, even at 1080i/720p it already looks pretty darn good. I think most people would have a hard time seeing a meaningful difference between 720p and 1080p.
Well, it's fact, but I don't have a 1080p display to really play with. I have seen 1080p delivered at 1080p and I have definitely seen interlacing artifacts, scaling issues, and timing issues. Some of it is through work as I've done $$$ residential stuff and had some opportunity to play with some really nice gear. Other stuff is through commercial work.

Mostly though I try to demo gear as much as possible and go to local high end stores and play with their gear. Looking at a Sony Qualia being fed 1080p on a 100" screen it's clear to see the advantage that 1080p can deliver, but color and contrast are FAR more important than resolution. I would also put image processing above resolution as a critical point.

But, when putting it all together into a single package then you may want everything for the money you spend. Great color, great processing, great contrast, high resolution, and sources that match up perfectly so you don't get judder effects, stair-stepping, or visible pixelation.

I have a 1080p projector that I'm installing in a couple of weeks that I likely will spend 5-10 hours playing with connected via HDMI to a PS3 as well as to a standard DVD player. It will have a 106" diagonal screen... I'll let you know what I think when I'm done.

[BMXTRIX]

Also, can anyone but the most hardened videophiles even see the difference between 1080i and 1080p? I have yet to see interlacing on my TV with at 1080i picture.
Darien - do you have a CRT?

If not, then your TV is doing deinterlacing already and is showing you a progressive scan image. If the processing within your Mits. display is good then you shouldn't be able to see any interlacing artifacts. But, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't, technically, be able to get a slightly better image with 1080p. Really tough to nail down anything firm without knowing exactly what Mits. display you have. Even then, I wouldn't want to say that you are incorrect at all. It may be that your display does a great job with things.

Note: 1080i from a Blu-ray movie, on a 1080p or a 720p display should be deinterlaced PERFECTLY on digital displays since the origination source is 1080p/24.

[mouettus]

So it is definitely a hype since I paid 1K$ plus for my tv to be "Full HD (Sony)" @ 1080p. I thought this tv would have no processing to do even if the refresh rate/fps changed. What is the best gear I should buy to get the best possible performance out of my tv then??

n.b. I'm not looking for an immediate purchase... just trying to understand more and more to make a good decision. In other words, what specs should I look for for optimal performance?

[mtrycrafts]

The Pioneer Elite and the Sony Blu-ray players have the ability to output 1080p/24 video directly to your display. Very - VERY - few displays actually accept 1080p/24 data or display 1080p/24 correctly. The Pioneer 1080p plasma being one of the exceptions as well as a few front projectors including the Sony VP50 (pearl).

It is rumored that in an upcoming PS3 firmware release that the PS3 will also be able to output 1080p/24.

The interlacing/deinterlacing should not be an issue and should provide the best possible 1080p/60 video you could hope for on your display. Since the processing for this entirely occurs within the player, it should provide solidly clean video at the highest quality possible for 1080p/60. But, potentially 1080i/60 to your display could look just as good if your display properly deinterlaces 1080i/60 to 1080p/60.


The Sony Ruby takes 1080p/24 on its component video only and 1080p/60 on HDMI. Do you know of a player that will do the 1080p/24fps on component? :eek:

[mtrycrafts]

Is this just conjecture or have you actually seen it and have an issue? The reality is, even at 1080i/720p it already looks pretty darn good. I think most people would have a hard time seeing a meaningful difference between 720p and 1080p.

Once again, we are at the point where picture size and viewing distance enters the equation.

[BMXTRIX]

The Sony Ruby takes 1080p/24 on its component video only and 1080p/60 on HDMI. Do you know of a player that will do the 1080p/24fps on component? :eek:
I can't say that I do. Personally it isn't a specification that I'm actually interested in. Yes, I ONLY have component video run to my projector and since I ran 3/4" conduit I'm going to be stuck opening my walls up to run HDMI - but when I make the component to HDMI transition it will be to get digital 1080p/24.

Not sure which (if any) accept 1080p/24 over component. Not even sure how many accept 1080p/60 over component.

[BMXTRIX]

So it is definitely a hype since I paid 1K$ plus for my tv to be "Full HD (Sony)" @ 1080p. I thought this tv would have no processing to do even if the refresh rate/fps changed. What is the best gear I should buy to get the best possible performance out of my tv then??

n.b. I'm not looking for an immediate purchase... just trying to understand more and more to make a good decision. In other words, what specs should I look for for optimal performance?
The Sony MAY deliver exactly what you want, or it may not. I'm not well versed on every display out there and I'm more up to date on projectors as I can be... but even then there are a lot of specs out there.

But, for really high end with 72hz/60hz compatibility with 1080p/24/60 I believe that the Pioneer Elite FHD1 (?) 1080p plasma (50") is one of the first to truly handle both 1080p frequencies while maintaining a matching refresh rate. The display itself doesn't have to refresh at 24hz (24 frames per second) but any multiple of 24 will work well.

I believe the Sony Pear front projector will run at 96hz for 24fps 1080p material. I think in a few years we will see most gear run at 120hz since it will cover both 60hz and 24hz material cleanly without serious resync issues.

[j_garcia]

Once again, we are at the point where picture size and viewing distance enters the equation.

True, but the average person with a 42" set isn't going to see a dramatic differnence. With a 106" screen that certainly can be a different story. The main thing that I notice with the PS3 is the DeepColor - color quality is stunning.

Off topic, but BMXTRIX did you see that article by Clint about wireless HD projectors coming soon? No ripping the wall open...

[LEVESQUE]

I'm using the Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 (Blu-ray player) with the new JVC HD-1 (RS-1 clone) at 1080p24 out and in without any problems.

My scaler is even accepting and outputting 1080p24 also.

No judder, really smooth watching.

[mtrycrafts]

True, but the average person with a 42" set isn't going to see a dramatic differnence. ...

Yep, that is what I was driving at round about way. You squared it. :D

[mtrycrafts]

I'm using the Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 (Blu-ray player) with the new JVC HD-1 (RS-1 clone) at 1080p24 out and in without any problems.

My scaler is even accepting and outputting 1080p24 also.

No judder, really smooth watching.

Is that only on HDMI cable? The Sony Ruby only accepts it on component. What were they thinking?:eek:
1080p/60 on HDMI.

[mtrycrafts]

... Yes, I ONLY have component video run to my projector and since I ran 3/4" conduit I'm going to be stuck opening my walls up to run HDMI - .

Thanks. Maybe you can shave the corners of the connector? I had to drill a bigger hole at one end to which I had some access. Not fun:mad: Had to have a fishing line in there too so I could fish it.

[BMXTRIX]

Thanks. Maybe you can shave the corners of the connector? I had to drill a bigger hole at one end to which I had some access. Not fun:mad: Had to have a fishing line in there too so I could fish it.
Yeah, I've thought about doing exactly that. I don't need a housing on the HDMI cable, just the cable itself. When HDMI setup a booth at CEDIA I read them the riot act on the size of the cable. They pulled up a spec "7/8" conduit needed". I told the rep that 3/4" conduit was readily available as industry standard and terminated directly to low voltage boxes - their spec, as good as it was, was off by 1/8 of an inch. Grrrrrrr.... Then I followed up with how we really need sizes well under that for retro fit construction.

Ah well. It is just one corner that will drive me nuts and require a bit of drywall work for me. It'll take a few hours to deal with the drywall stuff... but I may end up moving before I even get my 1080p projector so it may never matter.

[LEVESQUE]

Is that only on HDMI cable? The Sony Ruby only accepts it on component. What were they thinking?:eek:
1080p/60 on HDMI.

Before the JVC HD-1, I was using 1080p48 over DVI with the Sony Ruby, since that projector can only accept 1080p60 over HDMI. :D

So you just have to use the DVI connection and 1080p48 with your Ruby. ;)

[Geno]

I have a 720P Plasma, Dish HD, and a Denon DVD-3910. Sitting at my normal 15 foot viewing distance, the picture quality, both on Dish HD and 480 DVD is about as perfect as anything can be, IMHO. I've gone to the stores to check out HD/BD on a 1080P set, and it looked great, of course, but not appreciably different than what I have at home. The problem with this hobby/obsession/mental illness is in the truly nitpicky details seem to get blown all out of proportion to their real-world significance. Since my 720P plasma is only a year old, I'll sit this war out. By the time I'm ready to buy again, we'll probably have 100MP displays with flash-based or online content to match, and it'll be $29 at Target.

Of course, that's just my opinion...I could be wrong;)

[stratman]

You're probably right!

[j_garcia]

No, he's not right...flash memory won't be around :D

[mouettus]

Hmmm... reading those replies about 24/48/60 hertz/fps whatever... I think I might need a good weekend of "display 101" other than resolution here...

All I know is that movies are filmed 24 images per second so that just might be it. But shouldn't a display be able to handle all kinds of refresh rates?! It wouldn't matter then!

[mtrycrafts]

Hmmm... reading those replies about 24/48/60 hertz/fps whatever... I think I might need a good weekend of "display 101" other than resolution here...

All I know is that movies are filmed 24 images per second so that just might be it. But shouldn't a display be able to handle all kinds of refresh rates?! It wouldn't matter then!

Yes, displays do handle those other refresh rates, but, that has to come from someplace if the film is at 24 fps, right? So, there is some manipulation going on instead of straight to the display. That has drawbacks that may be visible.

[MDS]

The refresh rate of the display is likely 60 Hz and that is not an integral multiple of 24 Hz. That's where the whole 2:3 pulldown stuff comes in and some displays are better at it than others.

[mouettus]

The refresh rate of the display is likely 60 Hz and that is not an integral multiple of 24 Hz. That's where the whole 2:3 pulldown stuff comes in and some displays are better at it than others.

Would we really be likely to SEE the difference?! Or it's like the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 32in screen? lol

[MDS]

Would we really be likely to SEE the difference?! Or it's like the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 32in screen? lol

Well I for one wouldn't really notice and even when I do it doesn't bother me all that much. My sister and I were reminiscing about an old movie called 'Ghost Town'. I found a copy of it on VHS at secondspin.com (never been mastered to DVD) and while the tape was in relatively good condition the picture quality was actually rather terrible. I didn't mind at all and actually enjoyed the blast from the past.

Videophiles on the other hand nit-pick every little thing.

[mouettus]

Videophiles on the other hand nit-pick every little thing.

I still paid 1000$ more for the same tv just to have 1080p on a 46" lol