Another Paradigm Vs AV123

[BabelFish]

I keep hearing about AV123 and am starting to really like ID companies. I was curious what everyone's opinions are on these two setups (which one would you recommend)... I read a couple of threads that compared Paradigm vs AV123 but those were before the paradigm v4s came out. Thanks again!!

Paradigm
Studio 60s v4
Studio CC-690 v4
Studio ADP-590 v4
Studio 20s v4
Total $6700

AV123
Rocket RS850
Rocket RSC200
Rocket RSS300
Rocket RS250
Total $5500

(The Rockets come out to $1200 less than the Paradigm setup)

Both setups would be with the new SVS PB13-Ultra and powered by the new Denon 3808... I have heard some of the Paradigms already but I have never heard the Rockets before. (anyone in Chicago that has a setup similar to the one above? :) )...

Is there any other setup that I should consider thats within my budget? I am looking for the max bang for my buck. :)

[ParadigmDawg]

Either one of those systems will be awesome. I auditioned the Rockets and loved them. They are also beautiful but my wife didnt think the wood matched our house and gave them a "no".

The studio 60 is a nice speaker; it isnt as "pretty" as the rocket. I couldnt tell much of a difference between the 60 and the 40 when using a sub so I went with the 40's.

[Matt34]

Ask for a demo over at http://av123forum.com most of them are more than willing and there are at least a couple owners that I know of in your area.

[Warpdrv]

Still can't make up your mind there buddy..... hehehheh

[j_garcia]

I'd go with the Rockets for the simple fact that if you want to upgrade, they offer various x-over upgrades (Ninja) and such, at reasonable prices. I've heard the Studios plenty and I'd have to say the Rockets actually sound a LOT like them to me, so you won't go wrong with either of them. The Bigfoot center is better than the Paradigm centers I've heard (haven't heard the 690 though). Selling point - the Rockets look nicer (IMO) and cost less than the Digms.

[BabelFish]

Still can't make up your mind there buddy..... hehehheh

hahahaha no... I feel ridiculous! :)

[BabelFish]

The Bigfoot center is better than the Paradigm centers I've heard (haven't heard the 690 though). Selling point - the Rockets look nicer (IMO) and cost less than the Digms.

what is the Bigfoot center? Is that the one that I have listed above?

[Matt34]

what is the Bigfoot center? Is that the one that I have listed above?


Yes, RSC200 aka Bigfoot.

[ParadigmDawg]

I agree with JG...go with the rockets and then you can always have that little voice in the back of your head saying..."I wish I had of gone with the Paradigms"...

[billy p]

Ask for a demo over at http://av123forum.com most of them are more than willing and there are at least a couple owners that I know of in your area.

Matt much improved title!!;) I would like to say if Digms are your cup of tea, then you could also look at Energy RC's as well. They cost much less and sound very similar and come in light cherry or rosenut as well as black. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENKRC70&variation=CHE

[BabelFish]

I agree with JG...go with the rockets and then you can always have that little voice in the back of your head saying..."I wish I had of gone with the Paradigms"...

ROFL!!!!! :) So we have a vote for the paradigms :)

[j_garcia]

:D LOL. Greg, don't check your area for locals willing to demo the Rockets or Refs ;)

[Warpdrv]

Hey Babel, you still have a an invite to come over to my house and listen to my system, and see how you feel about it... Don't forget, Drinks are on me...

I encourage you to go listen to as many speakers as you can...

I ended up with Paradigms, as they fit my budget or a bit below, sounded great to me compared with what I had in my area, without going to ID brands....

Now for something completely different, you can also add the newly redesigned Swans to the mix... http://theaudioinsider.com/
Pretty speakers, and also get great reviews... :)

[BabelFish]

Hey Babel, you still have a an invite to come over to my house and listen to my system, and see how you feel about it... Don't forget, Drinks are on me...

I am still planning on taking you up on that. :) I think I might try the AV123 forum and see if there is anyone near me that has the setup I listed above and see what those speakers sound like.

[ParadigmDawg]

ROFL!!!!! :) So we have a vote for the paradigms :)

I am just giving you a hard time. I would consider the Rockets and the Paradigms close to a toss-up as heard by my foul working ears. The fact that the wife didnt like the looks of the beautiful Rockets and the fact that I like buying items locally; I chose the Diagms. I would love to hear those Swans though. Why dont you start over from square one...you may never even have to spend money at this rate...lol...

[jcPanny]

Babel,
AV123 is now risk free on their bookshelf speakers. You could order a pair of the rocket 250's and do an A/B test with a loner pair or Studio 20's from the local dealer. They are both great options. I am impressed with the build quality and performance of my Onix Ref 1's.

[BabelFish]

you may never even have to spend money at this rate...lol...

at this point it seems like I will never get my setup.. which is fine because I just keep saving more and more.. the HT has its own savings account :) As soon as my amp comes out.. that is when the ball will start rolling. whenever that will be :)

[ParadigmDawg]

If you want, you can just send me all your money and I will finish your audition process. I think there is still about 4 speakers I havent listened too...lol...

[TheFactor]

:DIm a new proud owner of Paradigm studio 60's v4 and cc690 v4 center and never had a speaker that sounded so good , im very happy highly recommend them and the quailty/sound is top knotch with a lot of bang for the buck imo FTW :)

[Halvie]

I think the 850 and 450 just had an increase in ETA. It is now 7-15 I think. Wish they would get that crap sorted out.

[Warpdrv]

Ahhhh this thread is a year old guys.... :)

[TheFactor]

LOL ya I noticed : ) had to blow the dust off but couldn't resist chiming in since im so happy with my Paradigms :)

[Soundman]

My Vote :D:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/Haldiron/RocketSpeakers/photo#5170648120915610514"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/Haldiron/R8HVEhm3S5I/AAAAAAAABdQ/hfV70Z6_h5o/s800/IMG_1665.JPG" /></a>

[TheFactor]

Very nice, but only if it were a Paradigm :D:p

[Soundman]

Very nice, but only if it were a Paradigm :D:p

I know, that would be a nice Paridigm if it looked like this, but I haven't seen any that do. :D

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/Haldiron/RocketSpeakers/photo#5170648181045152722"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/Haldiron/R8HVIBm3S9I/AAAAAAAABdw/BZYhDFwG20c/s400/IMG_1647.JPG" /></a>


<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/Haldiron/RocketSpeakers/photo#5170648193930054626"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/Haldiron/R8HVIxm3S-I/AAAAAAAABd4/LEl4ZlMQKVE/s400/IMG_1661.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/Haldiron/RocketSpeakers/photo#5170646123755817042"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/Haldiron/R8HTQRm3SFI/AAAAAAAABeA/6NrdYcODlrs/s400/IMG_1662.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/Haldiron/RocketSpeakers/photo#5170648219699858418"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/Haldiron/R8HVKRm3S_I/AAAAAAAABeE/54N19andkMY/s400/IMG_1655.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/Haldiron/RocketSpeakers/photo#5170648241174694930"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/Haldiron/R8HVLhm3TBI/AAAAAAAABeU/7qaeOXlAzuI/s400/IMG_1658.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/Haldiron/RocketSpeakers/photo#5170648266944498738"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/Haldiron/R8HVNBm3TDI/AAAAAAAABek/_pvvCpL-IJs/s400/IMG_1660.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/Haldiron/RocketSpeakers/photo#5170648052196133698"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/Haldiron/R8HVAhm3S0I/AAAAAAAABco/zXn-quAUZxY/s800/IMG_1663.JPG" /></a>

[Soundman]

OK, maybe I got carried away with the pics. I've just been having so much fun with my new toys. I couldn't resist. :D:cool::D

[TheFactor]

Wow those are eye candy for sure !!!!!!! Congrats : )

[Warpdrv]

In my GTG I had at my house, we compared the Studio 100's to the 850 rockets, and they both performed very well.... I would almost venture to say that I would be happy with either set of speakers in my house... Although I prefer the look of the Studio's personally, they don't have as nice of a finish.

I had never seen the finish on the 850's until then, and they are so much nicer in person. Packaging was really impressive, wood crating, and double boxed.

Here's some speaker porn for you guys...

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/SE%20WI%20GTG/pano2.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/SE%20WI%20GTG/GTG007.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/HT-Great%20Room/HTroom006.jpg

[Soundman]

In my GTG I had at my house, we compared the Studio 100's to the 850 rockets, and they both performed very well.... I would almost venture to say that I would be happy with either set of speakers in my house... Although I prefer the look of the Studio's personally, they don't have as nice of a finish.

I had never seen the finish on the 850's until then, and they are so much nicer in person. Packaging was really impressive, wood crating, and double boxed.

Here's some speaker porn for you guys...

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/SE%20WI%20GTG/pano2.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/SE%20WI%20GTG/GTG007.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/HT-Great%20Room/HTroom006.jpg

Nice pics! Sounds like loads 'a fun! :D

[TheFactor]

Holy **** I feel like a kid looking threw a window at a toy store......

[Soundman]

Holy **** I feel like a kid looking threw a window at a toy store......

Me too! :eek:

[Halvie]

Hey Soundman how do you like the rs450? I have some on order and am pretty excited to get them. How would you describe the sound? Have you ever comapred them to other bookshelf/tower speakers in the same price range ma rs1/rs6, studio 20, 685, sierra)? How do you think they stacked up? Do they have a decent low end?

Thanks

[gwilks98]

In my GTG I had at my house, we compared the Studio 100's to the 850 rockets, and they both performed very well.... I would almost venture to say that I would be happy with either set of speakers in my house... Although I prefer the look of the Studio's personally, they don't have as nice of a finish.

I hate asking, but would you mind offering your opinion on which speaker you would choose: the Ascend Sierra-1's or the RS850s? It's hard finding someone who's listened to both. (I'm really wanting to find someone who's heard the Diva 6.2s as well.)

Both would be paired with an SVS PB12-NSD sub. I'd say the use would be split: 40% theater, 40% gaming, 20% music. But the music HAS to sound good out of the speakers.

Room size is 21' W X 15.5' L, vaulted ceiling down the length of the room.

[Warpdrv]

WOW, thats a loaded question....

Honestly I am not one to tell people what speakers to buy, that is a very personal choice. I am really someone that likes floorstanders, especially if its a large room. I'll give you some thoughts, but I wouldn't begin to tell you what speaker to buy... there are tons of speakers out there, and there are truly alot of choices at that price point these days.

All I can do is give you my opinion...... But I am not the best at this type of thing. So I will link you to Nuance's thread to let you read his description of both, he puts it really well into words, better then I. Also, he owns the 850's so he knows them very well. He is my neighbor, and has been over to my house a number of times, and the links I am giving you, are part of his " My Journey to find the "perfect" speaker..." Thread over at AVSforum.

First off, both speakers to me really sound fantastic.I don't think you could go wrong with either selection. They both would benefit from a good sub. All speakers were run full range at the GTG

This was the first time I have ever heard any of AV123s speakers, and to be honest, I wasn't expecting them to sound as good as they did, I was skeptical. But all bull$hit aside, they are very close to the sound of my Paradigm Studio 100's. Great speakers, full rich sound from top to bottom. I would be happy to own them, the finish was better then I expected as well... very very nice. Great sound stage.

Ascend Sierra 1's...
These little things surprised the hell out of me, they have an incredibly full rich sound, very smooth, very impressive. I couldn't believe the bass these things put out, truly had a great presence and wide, deep soundstage. To me they were worth every penny.

These are Nuance's direct reviews from my GTG

Ascend Sierra 1's
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13112928&postcount=622

SVS MTS', Onix Rocket 850 Signature's and Paradigm Studio 100 V4's (floor standing speakers)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13168444&postcount=726

[fredk]

Warpdrv. The comments about the bass on the Paradigms is intersting. I was perusing anechoic chamber measurments on another site and notices a rather interesting thing. All the studios had noticable distortion in the bottom end. It starts around 100Hz and rises as you go down.

I wonder if or how much that contributes to the bass boominess. I know that distortion needs to be much higher at those frequencies before it is heard, but still...

Fred

[Warpdrv]

I would have to agree, the skinny towers that companies are striving forth to make that have to meet the demands of home integration/WAF factors - are IMO almost struggling to implement bass and are going to have difficulties in this arena. I think this is a very difficult thing to achieve where a small tower like the Studio 100 is concerned. As powerful as they are, there will be compromises. But I honestly think they do pretty darn good job though.

I think to overcome these imperfections the industry has implemented the integration of independent subwoofers to pick up the low end duties, and rightfully so. It is a small handful of speakers that could possibly handle material down to 20 hz much less 30hz effectively, and worse yet have to fullfil the dreams of the incredible demands of HT these days with all the amazing artificial bass these actions movies are throwing in your face :D. I actually love it, can you tell...? You can see that paradigm spends a good amount of time developing extremely good quality subwoofers to take up where the mains seem to start to get into trouble. So ultimately,who really cares about anything that a speaker has to accomplish below those crossover levels unless your a true and dedicated audiophile that states a speaker has to cover all the bases perfectly. I think those people are just dreaming.

A set of Studio 100s with a Servo15 .v2 sub will truly cover all the bases that most people are more then thrilled to death with, crossed over at 80hz will certainly alleviate a good deal of those type of problems.

Now these are all just examples here, and there are tons of products that can provide that same experience with ease. Then there are the over the top high dollar subs with amazing build qualities, performance and SQ that produce bass like the JL Audio Fathom line of subs or SVS's Ultra13 are just incredible and will supplement with ease those speakers that have difficulties in those regions.

What ever you want, you can get it... its just a matter of determination. Its all out there, how much do you want to spend to achieve your goals. Or, there is also DIY, and how much time do you want to spend to accomplish your goals, its all out there.... :)

[mazersteven]

Nice pictures dudes. :D

Soundman,

Looks like a very nice place you have there. Good looking speakers too. :D

Warp,

Good to see your GTG went well. Looks like you were able to audition a few speakers. :eek:

[Soundman]

Hey Soundman how do you like the rs450? I have some on order and am pretty excited to get them. How would you describe the sound? Have you ever comapred them to other bookshelf/tower speakers in the same price range ma rs1/rs6, studio 20, 685, sierra)? How do you think they stacked up? Do they have a decent low end?

Thanks

Hey Halvie,
I wish I could tell you more, but to be honest, I haven't been able to completely evaluate the 450's since I am using them as surrounds so they don't get pushed or used near as much as the 850's I have as fronts. However, I can assure you that I am getting plenty of enveloping sound from them. Soundwise, they sound alot like my 850's do!!. They are smaller though and wont be able to handle as much power, and the 850's probably have an advantage in the mid base area due to the (4) midbase drivers. But this isn't really a fair comparison since the 850's retail for $2,000 (even though you can usually find them for less on sale). I have used the 450's for muti-channel playback and I don't think I'm missing much. I think they perform very admirably, considering their price. I seriously doubt you will be disappointed. I do recommend you get the risers for them though. They will add more stability and get that tweeter right at ear level. i think they (risers) look nice too! As for the 450's sound you were asking about, they sound very smooth, IMO. Nice highs, and great mid-range, and non-fatiguing, but I find that i characteristic of Rocket's in general. You get great detail, without it sounding right in your face and harsh, like I've experienced with other speakers, so some would describe them as being somewhat laid back. I think they are a great value, and I'd be very surprised if you didn't like them.
As for the other speakers you mentioned, I haven't really heard them side by side, so i really cant comment on them. Good luck with your Rockets, and welcome to the family! :D

[Soundman]

Nice pictures dudes. :D

Soundman,

Looks like a very nice place you have there. Good looking speakers too. :D

Warp,

Good to see your GTG went well. Looks like you were able to audition a few speakers. :eek:

Hey Mazer,
Thank you! You are actually one of the people who really helped me out when I started auditioning speakers. Remember, I kept going from one manufacturer to the next, I demo-ed some ID's and now, here I am with a decent system. I started out looking at a budget system, but held off and kept upgrading until I arrived at this Rocket system. Thanks for all your recommendations. You were right about taking my time and not settling for something because of budget constraints. I think I am going to be much happier now, since I held off until the funds were available. I don't think I'll Be needing to upgrade for while now. Thanks again, Maze. :D

[Warpdrv]

Nice pictures dudes. :D

Soundman,

Looks like a very nice place you have there. Good looking speakers too. :D

Warp,

Good to see your GTG went well. Looks like you were able to audition a few speakers. :eek:

Yeah buddy.... It was all somewhat haphazzard, but we got the chance to listen to a number of different products that are unavailable in stores. I never heard back from you or saw you posting any thoughts about the SVS MBS-01. Curious what you thought of them...

I liked them, but in the end they didn't seem to have the sound that I was used too, or make them stand out to my ears like the paradigms. I obviously went with some paradigm sig S4's in my bedroom. Supplemented with a F112, and all I can say is WOW !! I just finished painting in there, so I'll have to post up some pics.

[mazersteven]

I never heard back from you or saw you posting any thoughts about the SVS MBS-01. Curious what you thought of them...



I absolutely love the MBS-01's. I auditioned them using material from the Allman Brothers to Frédéric Chopin, Leann Rhymes to Prodigy, Rush to Sade. IMO the SVS MBS-01 are outstanding speakers.

[fredk]

But I honestly think they do pretty darn good job though.
I would have to agree. When I listened to the Studio 60s the bass sounded nice an clear/clean to me. I also hadn't thought about what happens when you integrate a sub.

Fred

[Loki]

I keep hearing about AV123 and am starting to really like ID companies. I was curious what everyone's opinions are on these two setups (which one would you recommend)... I read a couple of threads that compared Paradigm vs AV123 but those were before the paradigm v4s came out. Thanks again!!

Paradigm
Studio 60s v4
Studio CC-690 v4
Studio ADP-590 v4
Studio 20s v4
Total $6700

AV123
Rocket RS850
Rocket RSC200
Rocket RSS300
Rocket RS250
Total $5500

(The Rockets come out to $1200 less than the Paradigm setup)

Both setups would be with the new SVS PB13-Ultra and powered by the new Denon 3808... I have heard some of the Paradigms already but I have never heard the Rockets before. (anyone in Chicago that has a setup similar to the one above? :) )...

Is there any other setup that I should consider thats within my budget? I am looking for the max bang for my buck. :)I absolutely loved the sound of the Studios when I started auditioning from something to replace my old Monitor 9's/Atoms/PS1000 system but I couldn't stomach the price. The new v4 Monitor series at just didn't stack up to the sound of the Studio line and I knew I'd be disappointed if I went that route to save the money. I ended up with the Rockets after doing an in-home audition and listening to as many other brands as possible (B&W, Martin Logan, RBH, Klipsch, DefTech, Mirage, Vandersteen) but I did so when they were priced well under the quoted prices above from early 2007. For reference, the price with shipping for the Rocket system shown above is now:

AV123
Rocket RS850 $1,399
Rocket RSC200 $449
Rocket RSS300 $499
Rocket RS250 $499
Total $2846

Having so many great things about other brands on this and other forums, the next time I upgrade I'm going to have to find the opportunity to listen to Salk, Revel, Focal, Aerial, Dynaudio, Ascend and Energy.