Why use the receiver to switch video inputs instead of the TV?

V

videobruce

Audioholic
It appears that most seem to prefer using the receiver to switch inputs. This puzzles me to no end because;
1. Video is more important and whatever that could be done to reduce loss by either less cables or shorter cables and less switching (active or passage) would be a good thing.
2. Video has the far greater bandwidth (see above) so it makes sense to give it priority.
3. Why send a signal to a device just to pass it along to another device when that device could 'switch' it also?
4. If the display device is designed properly, all you should need is one cable from the TV to the receiver to pass all and any audio.

With that said, then why do most hook cables to their receiver (that they paid more $$ for) when, in most cases the TV would/should do the same?

Example; a combination of composite, S-Video, component and HDMI video sources would require more than one set of cables to the TV if the receiver doesn't up convert all of them to HDMI. You would have to switch inputs with the receiver, AND switch inputs with the TV. Where is the advantage?? You are doing double duty, aren't you?

Why should I have to pay hundreds more (sometimes 2-3x as much) for something that probably won't sound any better with more 'bells & whistles' that I don't want or need?
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
videobruce said:
It appears that most seem to prefer using the receiver to switch inputs. This puzzles me to no end because;
1. Video is more important and whatever that could be done to reduce loss by either less cables or shorter cables and less switching (active or passage) would be a good thing.
2. Video has the far greater bandwidth (see above) so it makes sense to give it priority.
Video is more important to some people like those named videobruce. :)
For others like myself audio is more important. The length of the cables and whether the video is switched by the TV or the receiver will have practically zero effect on the picture quality. Although many will argue for video straight to the tv on the theory that the shortest path is best, in practice the receiver has enough video switching bandwidth that it will not noticeably degrade the image at all.

3. Why send a signal to a device just to pass it along to another device when that device could 'switch' it also?
4. If the display device is designed properly, all you should need is one cable from the TV to the receiver to pass all and any audio.
Sending everything to TV and then back to the receiver is the same thing - passing it along to another device. IIRC you want to use HDMI, which in most cases will carry the audio too (doesn't work properly with all devices especially cable boxes) so in that case you could send the audio to the TV and have the TV send it back to the receiver, but doing so is the same argument you are using about passing video to a device only to pass it along to another device, just that now we're talking about audio instead of video.

What you may be overlooking though is that there are still analog devices that you may be using. 'Digital cable', at least where I live, still has many channels with analog audio only. If your cable box can convert those analog channels to digital and pass it over HDMI to the TV and the TV can then send it back to the receiver that would be ok; if it doesn't then you'd have to run analog audio straight to the receiver anyway because the TV will NOT convert analog to digital and send it out its digital output.

Note also that if you send any digital signal to the TV and it alters that signal in ANY WAY, the receiver may not be able to identify the type of signal and engage the proper decoder. If you send the TV DD, will it be able to pass the untouched bitstream back to the receiver or will it only output PCM? If it only outputs PCM, you'd have the TV doing the DD decoding - a job for which the receiver is far better suited - AND the receiver will now have only a 2 channel PCM signal and will have to use a matrix decoder to turn it into surround. Bye-bye Dolby Digital.

Example; a combination of composite, S-Video, component and HDMI video sources would require more than one set of cables to the TV if the receiver doesn't up convert all of them to HDMI. You would have to switch inputs with the receiver, AND switch inputs with the TV. Where is the advantage?? You are doing double duty, aren't you?
True and that is why you have to decide what you need before you buy a receiver. Using that example though say you do have a component that only outputs composite, s or component video. That component will have to be connected to a different input on the TV as well as a different input on the receiver and you are right back to switching the TV and receiver independently.

Using the receiver as the central switch is far more convenient than running separate cables to the receiver. If the receiver can transcode from one format to another, then the receiver will switch audio and video at the same time. If it cannot transcode then you have to switch both the receiver and TV - the same as if you run everything to the TV.

It's your call. :)
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
I run various component and S-video sources to my receiver, but only one set of component cables to it.

All of the A/V devices are usually in one rack, with the display being located far away. It's convenient to run as few cables as possible to the TV. I have five sources (cable box, Wii, Xbox, DVD, HTPC) in my A/V rack, but only run two cables to the TV - one component and one HDMI. Way better than running 5 cables across the room.
 
V

videobruce

Audioholic
Video is more important to some people like those named videobruce.
Compare the bandwidth of just an analog video signal to the highest bandwidth of an audio signal and tell me which is greater?
in practice the receiver has enough video switching bandwidth
You mean should have enough.
Sending everything to TV and then back to the receiver is the same thing - passing it along to another device.
Yes, but it is with the less demanding audio signal.
What you may be overlooking though is that there are still analog devices that you may be using.
No I wasn't. Look at my "example".
Note also that if you send any digital signal to the TV and it alters that signal in ANY WAY, the receiver may not be able to identify the type of signal and engage the proper decoder.
And the same goes for the receiver messing with the video signal.
If the receiver can transcode from one format to another, then the receiver will switch audio and video at the same time.
I believe I said that in my OP.
 
J

Jedi2016

Full Audioholic
I think it depends on the setup. My TV has far more inputs than my receiver, so I use it for all of my video, while most of my audio is routed straight to the receiver.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
Well videobruce, you've posted at least 3 threads on the same topic here and at Secrets and have received basically the same response yet you seem to be more concerned with having people validate your point of view rather than learning about the trade-offs. As you can see the majority has said that you want to use the receiver to do the switching.

It's your system - do what you want.
 
V

videobruce

Audioholic
I haven't seen many of these "tradeoffs".
And there is something wrong about getting more than one opinion from different sources?
 
no. 5

no. 5

Audioholic Field Marshall
videobruce said:
Compare the bandwidth of just an analog video signal to the highest bandwidth of an audio signal and tell me which is greater?
if I remember correctly, HD over component video needs 60MHz of bandwidth, however, the audio spectrum needs just 20kHz. HOWEVER, the component video switch of just about any new receiver have 100MHz of bandwidth, so the video signal will be unaltered.
videobruce said:
Yes, but it is with the less demanding audio signal.
true that a receiver is a "audio device", but amplifying audio is not the only thing it dose, it's also a processor, and a video switch (keep in mind of course, that the video portions of the receiver do not use the audio circuits to do their job), and it seems unlikely that a company like Denon (who makes fantastic DVD players) would not know how to make a video switch that would'nt harm a video signal.

but, as MDS said; It's your system - do what you want. if you feel that you can get a better picture by sending video strait into your TV, don't let us stop you from doing what you feel is better. :)
 
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V

videobruce

Audioholic
if you feel that you can get a better picture by sending video strait into your TV, don't let us stop you from doing what you feel is better.
That isn't the issue. I'm trying to see this other logic.
Even if going through a audio receiver produced a "better" picture, the issue of mulitple cables from the receiver to the TV hasn't been addressed (different video formats for receivers that don't/can't convert everything to HDMI). Neither has the fact you are switching inputs on two different devices.
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
videobruce said:
the issue of mulitple cables from the receiver to the TV hasn't been addressed (different video formats for receivers that don't/can't convert everything to HDMI). Neither has the fact you are switching inputs on two different devices.
The Onkyo 604 cannot transcode to HDMI. If you are dead set on using HDMI, then you should have gotten the 674.

If you use component video from the receiver to the TV and connect all devices to the receiver, including their audio, the receiver can switch everything at once and you have only 1 set of component video cables to the receiver. Problem solved. Single switching and no need for multiple cables to the TV.

You will not notice any picture degradation going through the receiver as it has sufficient bandwidth for video switching and there will be no difference between HDMI and component video (other than 3 cables instead of 1).
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
videobruce said:
the issue of mulitple cables from the receiver to the TV hasn't been addressed (different video formats for receivers that don't/can't convert everything to HDMI). Neither has the fact you are switching inputs on two different devices.
Why does this bother you so much?

Using the receiver for video switching makes things way more convenient in many many setups, mine included. It allows me to greatly reduce the number of cables going to my monitor. Is that not good enough for you?
 
V

videobruce

Audioholic
The Onkyo 604 cannot transcode to HDMI. If you are dead set on using HDMI, then you should have gotten the 674.
I knew about the transcode,
I wasn't 'dead set' on HDMI, but I needed a third HDMI input,
the price difference was too great.
Why does this bother you so much?
More confusion. Makes for a more complicated setup and more to remember. Not user friendly to operate. If you forget 'whos' on first', you wind up with no video, no audio or both.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
videobruce said:
I knew about the transcode,
I wasn't 'dead set' on HDMI, but I needed a third HDMI input,
the price difference was too great. More confusion. Makes for a more complicated setup and more to remember. Not user friendly to operate. If you forget 'whos' on first', you wind up with no video, no audio or both.
I would bet money there would be no difference in your video quality if you used the receiver to switch your video.

You also forget, this is Audioholics, not Videoholics, most of the opinions that you are going to get here will be based on audio performance, not that video performance isn't an important criteria, just that as a whole, the forum would likely chose audio over video if one had to chose. If I had to choose between audio and video (being that if you chose one you couldn't have the other at all, period) I would choose audio with no question.:D

Even with that said, switching with receiver has always made more sense to me because it is a hub for audio and video, that is what it was designed to to. I would also think the user interface for the receiver more friendly that most TVs.
 

Buckle-meister

Audioholic Field Marshall
videobruce said:
Why use the receiver to switch video inputs instead of the TV?
I've only skimmed the responses so far, so I may have missed someone already having given this answer, but the obvious advantage to using the receiver to switch inputs rather than the t.v. is that you require only one remote control! You guarantee that there's never a mismatch between what you're watching and what you're listening to. ;)
 
V

videobruce

Audioholic
You also forget, this is Audioholics, not Videoholics, most of the opinions that you are going to get here will be based on audio performance
I understand that.
I would also think the user interface for the receiver more friendly that most TVs.
You haven't tried the Onkyo 604..........
you require only one remote control!
That can be said for most equipment that has a universal remote or if you use a 3rd party universal remote. BUT, you still have the issues with different types of video feeds; composite, S-video, componant & HDMI. that most except the most expensive receivers can't/don't handle with a single cable to the TV.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
I think it's better to have two 25' cables (one component, one HDMI) to my monitor instead of 5 (2 component, 2 HDMI, 1 S-video).

Isn't that reason enough?
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
videobruce said:
BUT, you still have the issues with different types of video feeds; composite, S-video, componant & HDMI. that most except the most expensive receivers can't/don't handle with a single cable to the TV.
Virtually every receiver will transmit composite and S-video over component. They all allow you to consolidate all analog connections into one cable going to the monitor, which is an obvious boon for many installations.

So what if the cheaper HDMI receivers can't turn all signals into HDMI? You will still end up with a maximum of two cables to your monitor (HDMI, component) instead of 4, 5, or 6. My A/V rack is 15 feet away from my monitor, so this is a huge benefit.

Furthermore, it just makes conceptual sense to have the A/V receiver be the A/V hub of the system. Select the input, and you have the appropriate sound going to the speakers and video going to the monitor. Done.
 
P

pnwave

Audiophyte
jonnythan said:
Virtually every receiver will transmit composite and S-video over component. They all allow you to consolidate all analog connections into one cable going to the monitor, which is an obvious boon for many installations.

So what if the cheaper HDMI receivers can't turn all signals into HDMI? You will still end up with a maximum of two cables to your monitor (HDMI, component) instead of 4, 5, or 6. My A/V rack is 15 feet away from my monitor, so this is a huge benefit.

Furthermore, it just makes conceptual sense to have the A/V receiver be the A/V hub of the system. Select the input, and you have the appropriate sound going to the speakers and video going to the monitor. Done.
guyz - I read thry this thread and saw a mention of transcoding. I do not think my Onkyo reciever transcodes from composite/AV to component. beacuse of this I have to run S-video from by Directv reciever to the TV, any ideas???
 
M

MDS

Audioholic Spartan
pnwave said:
guyz - I read thry this thread and saw a mention of transcoding. I do not think my Onkyo reciever transcodes from composite/AV to component. beacuse of this I have to run S-video from by Directv reciever to the TV, any ideas???
Ideas about what - whether you are correct or not? It would help if you would list the model number.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
pnwave said:
guyz - I read thry this thread and saw a mention of transcoding. I do not think my Onkyo reciever transcodes from composite/AV to component. beacuse of this I have to run S-video from by Directv reciever to the TV, any ideas???
It might not, but it probably does unless it's one of the cheapest receivers they make.
 
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