Blu-Ray Declares itself HD format winner!

[mpompey]

LAS VEGAS—Here's a shocker: The Blu-ray consortium believes that the format war is in its final stages and the winners are, well, them.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2080719,00.asp

[stratman]

I don't know if it's a shocker, but I believe dual format players and studios realeasing the same movie in both formats will be the end of the format "war." If the sales figures for Bluray are correct you can safely say it's all been due to a better marketing campaign. HD-DVD hasn't been as prolific in advertising as Bluray. I believe by the end of summer hi-def players will be very affordable, LG getting into the fray with dual format players will push other manufacturers to do the same. It will be up to the studios to decide which format to stay with, for the consumer (who has a dual format player) it will be a moot point. I feel bad for those who have bought either Bluray or HD-DVD player they're going to be at the mercy of the studios.:(

[markw]

... like the VHS/Beta war three decades ago, they stop manufacturing hardware and software for one of the two formats. Until then, it's still a battlefield.

[stratman]

... like the VHS/Beta war three decades ago, they stop manufacturing hardware and software for one of the two formats. Until then, it's still a battlefield.

Yup, that's why I've resisted the urge to to buy either format. I really believe that by summer's end things will be sorted out one way or the other.
I believe Bluray might be the choice due to amount of data the disc can hold so for computer applications its superior, in that sense.

[kenhoeve]

Yup, that's why I've resisted the urge to to buy either format. I really believe that by summer's end things will be sorted out one way or the other.
I believe Bluray might be the choice due to amount of data the disc can hold so for computer applications its superior, in that sense.

It's just a shame their hardware is no where near hd-dvd at this point.

[stratman]

Toshiba announced a 50 gig HD-DVD disc at CES! I saw it at highdefdigest.com

[davo]

Has anyone seen any HD-DVD drives for computers anywhere? Because all I seem to find are Blu-ray drives popping up every where. I think it's a good INDICATION that things will go Blu-rays way.

[j_garcia]

I haven't really seen any drives, but there are computers shipping with them installed. Plenty of Blu Ray drives, but for $600, might as well buy a PS3.

[SilverMK3]

Don't discount the XBOX360's external HD-DVD drive. With the right software this could be an excellent $200 HD-DVD platform on a media PC.

I think dedicated players are going to come way down in price as cheaper/more optimized decoding processors become available to the manufacturers. The deciding battle in the HD format war will probably be fought with the first $200-$300 players.

[stratman]

Don't discount the XBOX360's external HD-DVD drive. With the right software this could be an excellent $200 HD-DVD platform on a media PC.

I think dedicated players are going to come way down in price as cheaper/more optimized decoding processors become available to the manufacturers. The deciding battle in the HD format war will probably be fought with the first $200-$300 players.

I don't think the $200-300 players will be the deciding factor, my reasoning is based on what I've been reading in the trade publications and seeing in the stores. Consumers aren't just waiting for units to come down in price, they're waiting on software to come down, availability of titles, library size: big collection, double dip or triple? Studios and manufacturers are spending tons of cash they need to recoup. LG's solution (dual format player) is being announced faster than anyone thought possible, some studios are releasing titles in both formats, this will hurt the "war." If there's no change in the panorama, the war will be done by summer's end (in my opinion):)

[farscaper]

I declare myself the winner of the format war!
I haven't spent money on either format, so maybe its true.
I guess if you say your the winner, then I guess its true. Right? Wow, now thats a marketing tactic.

[markw]

II guess if you say your the winner, then I guess its true. It doesn't seem to be working for Bush on Iraq. ;)

[stratman]

I declare myself the winner of the format war!
I haven't spent money on either format, so maybe its true.
I guess if you say your the winner, then I guess its true. Right? Wow, now thats a marketing tactic.

Well if you haven't spent any money??;)

[mpompey]

It doesn't seem to be working for Bush on Iraq. ;)

Man, that's gotta hurt!

[stratman]

It doesn't seem to be working for Bush on Iraq. ;)




Didn't work for Gore either in 2000;)

[Briant73]

I also am setting up camp at the wait and see.

Things I'm waiting for before going hd-dvd or blu-ray:
First 1080p displays with hdmi 1.3 at reasonable (to me) cost
Then More Hd channels to watch on the new display
Finally a winner in the format war or no winner needed

Now I may purchase an xbox 360 or ps3 sometime this year which may cause the above to change but right now that's the way I plan on pursuing it.

[stratman]

Interesting article posted by Clint on the home page. Bluray slinging BS around in a fake "magazine", showing "statistics" why Bluray is surpassing HD-DVD. There's one thing you can say about big corporate merketeers, they can sling some mean bullshit (hey how'd that get through?);)

Best advice told to me by pro marketer: "Never, ever, believe the hype.":)

[davo]

LAS VEGAS—Here's a shocker: The Blu-ray consortium believes that the format war is in its final stages and the winners are, well, them.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2080719,00.asp


It is interesting to consider a few things with regard to the format war.

1) Blu-ray has far more industry support than does HD-DVD.

2) Most of the HD-DVD supporters are doing releases in both formats, but not many Blu-ray supporters are swinging the other way.

3) Considering the cost of the different format high def players, you would have to agree the HD-DVD players are cheaper. This suggests two possible things a) HD-DVD makers know they are already behind the eight ball with sales/support and accept lower profits in a bid to stay in the game,
b) Blu-ray makers know they are in a winning position and feel they don't need to cut their prices to be in the game.

4) I personally have not seen any pc HD-DVD drives anywhere. Does the HD-DVD camp even plan to get into this field? They are leaving it a bit late!

5) As with poker, Blu-ray(PS3) has taken a gamble by waiting so long to get products out. Fortunately for Blu-ray(PS3), the other player showed their hand too early, and now Blu-ray are playing the game with confidence.

6) I haven't seen any HD-DVD advertising at all down here in Oz, but plenty of Blu-ray ads.

__________________________________

Just my 2c ;)

[Trebar]

Well, an opinion from somebody who hasn't spent a penny either way.

I have a feeling whichever format can advertise $200-300 player with full 1080p with a TV that can handle the data will effectively win the format war. Until a full featured player (cd,dvd,dvr) gets to that price range, 80% of the 'normal' consumers will not feel like risking their bucks on one or the other formats. A dual player in the $400 range would probably entice some of them to jump in.

The closest similar situation I can remember about adoption by the masses is not the Betamax-VHS war, but the Laserdisk. I had heard about the Laserdisk format in the early 80's and it actually goes back to about the same time CD's were released (I bought one in 1989). It was far superior in many ways to VHS including sound and picture clarity. It also was the only way to buy movies in letterbox format, some even had audio comentaries and bonus features. The biggest drawbacks were size and cost. If quality was the only consideration then Laserdisc would have made significant sales to that 80% crowd.

As most of you know, it did not. At $300-$1000 and disks $25-100's it made little headway into the mass market. VHS was too flexible and affordable with the ability to record and archive, even if it was at a lower quality. So, when one format or the other can say that it can match the features of what most people already have in their homes, then they will start plunking down the dinero. Until then, I'll keep my money and invest in whichever company appears to be winning.

[markw]

http://www.i4u.com/article7621.html

It's a commonly acknowleged fact that by the adaption of the VHS format by this industry, it sounded the death knell for Beta. Joe Sixpack votes with his wallet, and that wallet does not just open for the latest mainstream movies.

[Buckeyefan 1]

It's going to be awhile before Netflix and Blockbuster online adopt purchasing Blu ray and HD DVD titles to replace their millions of existing DVD's. The Joe six packs of the world get their movies via rental, not purchasing them. Joe six pack is more than thrilled with the clarity and sound of a 480i dvd compard to 240-288i sd cable, so pq won't win the overall war. Sub $250 pricing of players and the ability to get these new releases to the rental giants - Netflix and Blockbuster will IMO.

Personally, I'd rather have all my cable channels in HD than pay $600 for a player and $25 and up for HD discs.

A $199 HD player with the ability to rent HD movies for < $20 a month may sway me, but that will be some time down the road.

[Bryce_H]

Buckeyefan - Netflix has had Blu-Ray and HD-DVD available for rental since each was introduced - at no extra cost!

The player cost is my hindering factor right now.

[j_garcia]

Yep, Netflix started doing the HD formats immediately, and Hollywood Video told me the other day that they would soon be carrying them as well, as soon as this month.

[Electone]

I am following this format war with great interest. I prefer HD DVD at the moment for personal reasons, but I can't deny Blu-ray's advantages such as greater manufacturer and studio support. The BDA is cocky as hell and I really hope they fall flat on their faces. Most of their players are double the cost of a similar HD DVD player white their software titles look inferior to the HD DVD version.

I've decided to wait this one out. The really good titles haven't been released yet. Buying HD discs just for the sake of watching HD is not a good enough reason for me to shell out the big bucks right now. I'd rather watch a great movie in SD, than a crap movie in HD.

[mtrycrafts]

The really good titles haven't been released yet. .


I would say that is because of printing capacity of these discs?

[Tom Andry]

I've actually gotten an HD DVD disc from Netflix when I ordered a SD movie because it had both versions. Worked fine in the Oppo but the 2partsfusion didn't like it so much.

[farscaper]

I've read in a couple of blogs out there that the Blu-ray system is expensive. That there is a much larger cost for studios to choose to go with the Blu-ray system. This larger expense hurts the smaller studios and therefore pushes them to HD-DVD.

I haven't found an explaination on where this extra expense is.
Anyone hear anything more about this?

[davo]

I'm not sure how much more the Blu-ray player is to make over the HD-DVD player since they are both using blue laser's.

I thought this was in interesting bit of info: (Wikipedia)

Muslix64's exploit

On December 26, 2006 a person using the alias "muslix64" posted a utility named BackupHDDVD and its source code for a working AACS decryptor on the doom9.org forums. The program is not an exploit or hack per se. Rather it is a tool that can be used to decrypt AACS protected content once one knows the encryption key. As such, it is no surprise or indication of vulnerability that such a program is possible and it can be seen as merely an implementation of the publicly available standard AACS Guide. However, Muslix64 claims to have found title keys in main memory while playing HD-DVD disks using a software player, and that finding them is not difficult.[13] Details of how to do this have not been revealed.

On January 2, 2007 "muslix64" published a new version of his/her program, with volume key support.[1]

Cyberlink, developers of PowerDVD maintain that their software was not used as part of the exploit.[2]

The claimed attack (extraction of the encryption keys from a software player) highlights the inherent weakness of software movie players for the PC platform. The use of encryption doesn't offer any true protection in this scenario since the software player must have the encryption key available somewhere in memory and there's no way to protect against a determined hacker extracting the encryption key (if everything else fails the user could run the program in a virtual machine making it possible to freeze the program and inspect all memory addresses without the program knowing). Avoiding such attacks would require changes to the PC platform (see Trusted Computing) or that the content distributors do not permit their content to be played on PCs at all (by not providing the companies making software players with the needed encryption keys). Alternatively, they could use the AACS system's revocation mechanism to revoke a specific software player after it is known to have been compromised. In that case, the compromised players could still be used to break old titles but not newer releases as they would be released without encryption keys for the compromised software players requiring hackers to break other players. The latter alternative is not a desirable option, because it would result in legitimate users of compromised players being forced to upgrade or replace their player software in order to view new titles.

On January 13, 2007 "LordSloth" on Doom9 discovered how to grab the volume license keys from WinDVD's memory. With that discovery, it became possible to take backup of HD-DVDs. Later that day, the first pirated HD-DVD, Serenity, was uploaded on a private torrent tracker. (end quote)

Haven't seen anything on pirated blu-ray yet.

[Bluesmoke]

I'm on the fence. But I saw Blackhawk Down the other day and it blew me away (audiowise mainly). I saw Batman Begins with the True HD track but this was something else.

I then learned that virtually every single Blu-ray exclusive movie has Lossless sound. On the HD DVD side, there's about 5 to 6. That really blows if it becomes the standard. And judging by the huge number of titles coming, I might be forced to swing that way since I want to get a PS3.

[stratman]

I still think it's a wise idea to wait and see what happens with the dual format players about to hit the market, it hurts to start an expensive hi-def library that becomes obsolete.

[MACCA350]

I still think it's a wise idea to wait and see what happens with the dual format players about to hit the market, it hurts to start an expensive hi-def library that becomes obsolete.
IMHO, I don't think it'll hurt that much, you've still got the player and can still watch the movies you bought. So you may have to buy a new player in a couple of years if the format you already bought fails, but by then they'll be dirt cheep anyway. Everything becomes obsolete.

cheers

[stratman]

IMHO, I don't think it'll hurt that much, you've still got the player and can still watch the movies you bought. So you may have to buy a new player in a couple of years if the format you already bought fails, but by then they'll be dirt cheep anyway. Everything becomes obsolete.

cheers
The problem would be that if you chose the wrong format, and your player only supports that format, once your player stops working.....? A bit like Beta vs Vhs, once the equipment wasn't being manufactured anymore (Beta)you were at the mercy of your existing gear, once that failed...? See my point? And 25.00-30.00+ per title X number of movies you want, it can get expensive fast.

[Clint DeBoer]

IMHO, I don't think it'll hurt that much, you've still got the player and can still watch the movies you bought.Lol... tell that to all the laserdisc early adopters.

[jeffsg4mac]

Lol... tell that to all the laserdisc early adopters.

Yeah, I was one of them:mad:

[RLA]

Lol... tell that to all the laserdisc early adopters
Hold on there big guy, While you were all watching VHS in Prologic us early adopters were watching LD in all its glory with DD and DTS soundtracks. I went through sevreral LD players over about a six year period until the Panasonic DVD A-110 was introduced. I still remember WoWing people with the LD and Runco CRT Fp combo with titles like the Shadow with DTS;) Just for grins recently my son and I pulled the LD out of the closet to rewatch some old movies. As good as we thought LD looked in the 80's and 90's it was fairly painful to watch now, but the soundtracks were still awesome

[mike c]

LD hurt because there aren't any universal players today (simply because of the size)

and believe me it hurt me a lot, I have 8 LD players (from 8 rooms) that shout to hell with sony. (7 are sony btw, 1 is pioneer universal player that plays VCD's/CD's - that one still works)

[stratman]

I still have a Pioneer CLD-D604, it's in mint condition, it plays both sides, and the only reason I still have it is: one of my LD titles is out of print in DVD, so unti'll I have that title transfered to DVD I'll keep the old dinosaur.:)

[Clint DeBoer]

Hold on there big guy, While you were all watching VHS in Prologic us early adopters were watching LD in all its glory with DD and DTS soundtracks.Ah, you're just OLD... lol. Ray also had to walk through 10' of snow... uphill... both ways... to get his laserdiscs. :)

[MACCA350]

The problem would be that if you chose the wrong format, and your player only supports that format, once your player stops working.....? A bit like Beta vs Vhs, once the equipment wasn't being manufactured anymore (Beta)you were at the mercy of your existing gear, once that failed...? See my point? And 25.00-30.00+ per title X number of movies you want, it can get expensive fast.
That won't be a problem with this war because they've already announced dual format players.

cheers:)

[stratman]

That won't be a problem with this war because they've already announced dual format players.

cheers:)
That was my point:) It's not wise to start a hi-def collection now, dual format players are not out yet, and who's to say they will be in the next 6 months. Unless you buy a machine now, stick to one format, and then buy a dual format player, if and when they hit the market. Again, you're spending quite a wad of cash for lack of patience.:) Then again if you have the money.....:D

[RLA]

Ah, you're just OLD... lol. Ray also had to walk through 10' of snow... uphill... both ways... to get his laserdiscs. Yep, all that and without shoes. Didn't your momma tech you to respect your elders? Taking lessons from Tom I see :D

[KrisJ]

I'm more interested in seeing HD movies NOW, rather then wait until a victor is declared. Im just siding with Blu-ray at the moment because I picked up a Ps3. The HD-DVD attatchemnt for the 360 may be in my future as well.

[stratman]

I'm more interested in seeing HD movies NOW, rather then wait until a victor is declared. Im just siding with Blu-ray at the moment because I picked up a Ps3. The HD-DVD attatchemnt for the 360 may be in my future as well.

You know what happens to the inpatient early adopter.;)

[Tom Andry]

Yep, all that and without shoes. Didn't your momma tech you to respect your elders? Taking lessons from Tom I see :D

Hey... I'm much better at disrespecting my elders than Clint. He's not even fit to become my grasshopper. :D

[MACCA350]

Unless you buy a machine now, stick to one format, and then buy a dual format player, if and when they hit the market. Again, you're spending quite a wad of cash for lack of patience.:) Then again if you have the money.....:D
Thats what I'm planning to do, but if the one I choose now dies in about 2years the dual format players should be cheap. The other thing is, I don't want to spend anymore money on DVD's but I still want to buy movies, so what else can I do. I have no choice but to pick a format now.

cheers:)

[mike c]

Thats what I'm planning to do, but if the one I choose now dies in about 2years the dual format players should be cheap. The other thing is, I don't want to spend anymore money on DVD's but I still want to buy movies, so what else can I do. I have no choice but to pick a format now.

cheers:)

so which one are you going for?

[MACCA350]

so which one are you going for?
I'm still mulling that over......Damn this stupid war. I swear the MPAA should have stepped in and flogged them all till they spat out a single format

I can't stand Sony and their f*****g controlling propriatry attitude:mad: , I mean how many different formats do they want, they've tried everything under the sun and how many of them became mainstream? Their like a child, play with this for a bit and then on to the next thing.

HD-DVD now have 5 china manufactures(that should flood the market with cheap players) along with Onkyo and Meridian on board and said they're going to spit out 600 movies this year(and they've had the entire porn industry handed to them on a silver platter). HD-DVD is braught to us by the DVD-Forum, the same people who brought us DVD so there is a good track record there. They had no problems doing dual layer straight out of the gate unlike all Blu-ray's woes trying to get theirs to work. Now HD-DVD said they'll do 51GB discs soon(who knows if Blu-ray can get higher than 50GB to work on the production line given their history). Not to mention that many of the releases at the moment are either better on HD-DVD or the same transfer as Blu-ray. Blu-ray has been slow to adopt the newer codecs and even still use space hogs MPEG and PCM instead of using VC-1 and lossless DTS-HDMA or Dolby TruHD:confused: .

Did I mention 1080p porn ONLY on HD-DVD:p

I don't know....I've got a few weeks to wait for the Toshiba HD-XE1 to be released here so I'll see what happens till then. Maybe Denon will announce what they're going to do.

AAARRRRGGGG.......Stupid.....F*****G........B***** Y......format war! AND ALL I WANT TO DO IS BUY MOVIES!!!!

cheers:)

[mouettus]

I can't stand Sony and their f*****g controlling propriatry attitude:mad:

Hey hold on a minute. You gotta admit that they still know how to make nice tvs (audio is crap) and they have great marketing strategies. It's not only because they stand on the top of the hill and they're taking advantage of that situation. Just bought a new tv last sunday. Picked a 40inches LCD Sony because of the quality of the image. Didn't care about the brand.

Now for the format war, what makes the difference between sony to blu-ray and Toshiba to HD-DVD?

And hey, did I mention I have a 52inches Toshiba RPtv too!? :P

I want Blu-ray to win because the name and the logo are nice! HAHA. Both have huge space on their medias and play 1080p with support for HD-audio as well. Why do you guys care about who wins? Just wait for the final winner and pick up the 200-300$ player then! It's like comparing Toyotas to Hondas. Not Toyotas -vs- GM!!!! (Sorry for you american patriots! :P)

[stratman]

Thats what I'm planning to do, but if the one I choose now dies in about 2years the dual format players should be cheap. The other thing is, I don't want to spend anymore money on DVD's but I still want to buy movies, so what else can I do. I have no choice but to pick a format now.

cheers:)
Do you have Netflix or a service similar to it? Instead of buy movies now why not just rent till all things get sorted out?

[KrisJ]

You know what happens to the inpatient early adopter.;)

Divorce?

;)

[stratman]

If you're lucky.:D

[Seth=L]

It seems dubious for them to claim a victory at this point.

[stratman]

I think it was pre-CES hype.:mad:

[Seth=L]

Everything is hype these days, you can even smoke hype.:D

[stratman]

I seriously think that by this summer's end this format "war" will be gone.

[Seth=L]

I seriously think that by this summer's end this format "war" will be gone.
I don't know, hard to say.

[The Dukester]

If you're lucky.:D


Hey, Stratman; if that's your high school senior picture in your avatar, I'd say you were lucky to even have a wife.:p Jk.
I don't think the war will be over for a year or two at least.

[The Dukester]

Yep, all that and without shoes. Didn't your momma tech you to respect your elders? Taking lessons from Tom I see :D


Ah, Ray, you're just mad because you didn't make the dream team:p Better luck next year!

It's all good. I still hold you in high esteem regardless of your age for all the help you gave me on some of my HT selections:) Thanks!

Duke

[Tom Andry]

Oh, Ray was there... this time he had to hold his own shoes though! :D

[The Dukester]

Oh, Ray was there... this time he had to hold his own shoes though! :D


LOL I remember that story! I still bet he's mad he didn't make the team...at least the starting five. Check out post 46. http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28356&page=5

[stratman]

Hey, Stratman; if that's your high school senior picture in your avatar, I'd say you were lucky to even have a wife.:p Jk.
I don't think the war will be over for a year or two at least.
Not only was I the best looking in class, the chickies couldn't keep their hands off the mane and the club;)