Paradigm Monitor 90p (Discontinued!!! UHG)

[BabelFish]

I noticed that the Monitor 90p were discontinued last year. What frustrates me is that there is no good replacement for it. I have been saving for several years now for my ultimate system and now I am not sure what to do. (I just found this out this week... uhg.. I need to check the internet more often!)

My Ultimate System
> Amp: Denon AVR-3808 (Debut CES 2007... -Replacement of the AVR-3806)
> Fronts: Monitor 90p
> Center: CC-370
> SBL/SBR: ADP-370
> BL/BR: ADP-370
> Sub: PW-2200

The Monitor 90p had Low-Frequency Extension of 22Hz and the Frequency Response of 28Hz-20kHz. None of the other Monitors (v4 or v5) comes close to that. What am I supposed to do? Any suggestions?

I am pretty set with the Paradigm name brand so please.... no brand bashing. Thanks for all of your help!

[Rob Babcock]

If you have your heart set on them there's probably still NOS in the dealer channels somewhere. Or perhaps a clean used pair? Have you checked Audiogon?

[BabelFish]

yeah.. I checked there.. no one was getting rid of them. is there anything in the new models that would be a good replacement for the 90p?

[Nuglets]

Ouch that hurts...I got mine last year sometime. Don't feel disheartened though, there are many other speaker's that will outperform the 90P's. Besides if you are looking into implementing a separate subwoofer I wouldn't recommend these speaker's anyways. I had such a hard time trying to get my old PS-1200 to blend well with the tower's that I ended up selling it. If you are about to spend that kind of money on some front speaker's and also have enough to buy the rest of a 5.1 setup you have many choices other that the system you listed that will outperform it. If I were you I would dump the full-range 3-way tower's and look for some smaller speaker's that are higher up in the food chain and get a beefier Servo subwoofer. Don't make your choice based on low frequency extension for two reason's that I can think of:
1. There are many other factor's that will determine how a speaker sounds.
2. You will have a subwoofer to cover frequencies that low and if you try to blend full range front speaker's you will get constructive/destructive wave interference. This means that you certain frequencies will be overwhelmingly loud and some will be barely audible based on placement of the speaker's and room acoustics.

Also, don't limit selection to Paradigm unless it's the only hi-end brand that is available to you. There are a few good online retailer's that have great speaker's from what I hear in this forum.

[nelson57]

BabelFish, I agree completely with Nuglets. He gave you some very sound advise there.

[BabelFish]

What speakers would you all recommend for me?.. I am looking at getting a 7.1 system.

I am really looking for a system that will handle all that I throw at it. It will be used for music and our Home Theater and our normal TV (we don't watch all that much TV..).

I would like a system where I will feel the impact when huge bass scenes occur in movies and also have it sound extremely natural with classical music (like I was actually there). I understand that I will have to adjust the settings in order to obtain both but I would like a system that can deliver both.

My friend has all Paradigm and I really like his system (Paradigm 90p(v2??) and some ADP-???(v2??) with a center channel). That is why I was thinking of going that route. It seems to be the best bang for the buck from what I have read and seen.

I do have a good amount saved up but that needs to be used for everything:
Projector,
Mounting,
Screen,
Speakers,
Amp

I think I am pretty set on the AVR (3808 unless someone can show me something else) but that will all depend on what the final specs are when it is released. In terms of speakers, I guess I am open to other brands as long as they will knock my socks off.

Also, I am open to smaller fronts... its just that they look really neat when there are huge speakers in front of you when you first sit down... (I know.. I REALLY lame excuse)... :)

[dobyblue]

Can you start by telling us how much of the ultimate system you've already purchased, that would be a good step forward.

I can tell you that with the 11s as fronts and a Servo 15v2 as the sub you will not be wary of lack of bass in the slightest. I am amazed at how deep, powerful and accurate the Servo 15v2 is.

I keep it set at approximately 3/10 for volume which is more than enough.

[BabelFish]

Sure... That question is very easy... I haven't purchased anything... Full noob here... mold me :) Build _your_ ultimate system through _me_! j/k :)

I am planning on getting everything in March/April/whenever the 3808 comes out.

Here is the room where the HT will be held. I understand that the windows look like a problem but we have room darkening windows blinds. The room has been modified some also since we have moved in. Room Dimensions are 19x18 (I think...)

How much did you get your Servo 15 for? (New). I am curious because I had heard that the PW-2200 should be around $799 and the Paradigm dealer near me was selling it for $999 which seemed rather high.

[billy p]

I have anything important to add :o. If you reside in the US then online retailers are a definite option, if your up this way, then maybe not?:)

[BabelFish]

I updated my location. :)

[BabelFish]

Who are the online retailers and are they authorized? I would like to buy from a retailer that will not void my warranty.

[nelson57]

BabelFish, based on what you listed as your ultimate system, if you want to stay with Paradigm and remain within the same price range, with the 90P being discontinued, I'd go:

Monitor 11's v5 up front
CC-290 v5 or the 390 if your space can handle it
ADP-390's v5 for surrounds
PSW 2200 sub, or, if you can swing it, the Servo 15 v2.

This is a viable alternative to your originally listed system, and will give you equally as much listening pleasure for both music and movies.

This is all based on what you originally posted, however if you were basing your decision on the having the Monitor 90P as part of that system, and have now changed your mind, you can begin the listening and searching process for alternative brands. have fun, and good luck either way!

[Kai]

I went to my local shop, where I purchased my speakers, thinking to look at the cc370 to replace my cc170. I figure it will be a better match to my Monitor 3's and I have some Santa bucks burning a hole in my pocket.
The manager tells me the 370 has been replaced by the new 390 and is a bit on the large size...he chuckles as he says this.
He has one on display and working. It sounds amazing but is huge compared to my lowly 170 and imo overkill to my monitor 3's not to mention the side eye my wife would give me.

[BabelFish]

Ok... Is there any brand that I can get that is better than Paradigm (for the money?) that I should check out?

Lets say that I get:
Fronts: Monitor 11v5
S BL/S BR: ADP-390 v5
BL/BR: ADP-390 v5
Center: CC-290 v5 (would this be ok.. or should I go with the 390???)
Sub: Servo 15

How much should that run me?
Will that handle all of my needs? Would the Denon 3808 (replacement for the Denon 3806) handle off of that or would I need another amp?

Is there another speaker brand that could give me more for the money? Thanks in advance for all of your help and advice! :)

[BabelFish]

Oh my goodness... do you guys know how much that servo 15 costs!!!!! oh man!!!!

at 1500watts.. thats 12.5amps.. (right?).. that is an entire circuit breaker for me!!! uhg... man that would rock!!!!

[Nuglets]

Take a look at some of Paradigm Reference Studio's also. I'm not sure what the price is like but I'm guessing that the Studio 40's would be quite a bit cheaper than the 90P maybe about the same price as the Monitor 11's and should give you a better sound than either of those. I guarantee that if you get the Studio 40's and the rest of the 5.1 setup in that line along with a sub your friend with the Monitor's will be jealous when he hears it. No reason to get tower's just because they are big when have a sub to show off. Besides, look at the Studio 40's, in my opinion they look much more appealing than the 90P's.

[Nuglets]

Ok... Is there any brand that I can get that is better than Paradigm (for the money?) that I should check out?

Lets say that I get:
Fronts: Monitor 11v5
S BL/S BR: ADP-390 v5
BL/BR: ADP-390 v5
Center: CC-290 v5 (would this be ok.. or should I go with the 390???)
Sub: Servo 15

How much should that run me?
Will that handle all of my needs? Would the Denon 3808 (replacement for the Denon 3806) handle off of that or would I need another amp?

Is there another speaker brand that could give me more for the money? Thanks in advance for all of your help and advice! :)

Some question's for you...

What is going to be the primary use of this system? Watching movies or listening to music? If it's primarily a Home Theater you are interested in you will probably want a better center channel than the CC-290. I was trying out my friends cc-370(I think...I know it was in the 300's) and I wasn't very impressed with it compared to mine, and mine is pretty bad in my opinion, but I hardly watch movies so I have yet to upgrade. I don't know about the cost of any of that stuff but if the Servo is out of you price range I'm sure the 2200 will suffice.

Do you have some dealer's around there that carry hi-end audio? If so, go take a listen for yourself to some of the speaker's we have mentioned and also try out some other brand's that the store carries.

Also, you shouldn't have a big problem trying to power those speaker's with a receiver if you are using a powered sub. An amp will do nothing but help, but it can always wait. It's better to wait and buy something that you won't regret than to buy something and realize you want something better. Then you end up practically buying an entire new system trying to upgrade and that gets very costly.

[dobyblue]

The Servo 15 does rock that's for sure. The back plate of mine lists maximum consumption at 1800 Watts! I got mine for $1750CDN, it had been in a customer's home for 1 day. I got very lucky. :)

The PW-2200 is a monster sub as well though and I hardly doubt you'd be upset at all with it - the Servo 15 just releives you of all upgradeitis in that department.

Do you do any hi rez music listening or are you just going for HT movies?

I think the CC-290 would be just perfect for your system, but what sort of wattage per channel is the 3808 going to be? The CC-390 allows for 150W whereas the CC-290 is a 120W centre. Other than that the performance is virtually identical.

[BabelFish]

From what I have been reading, the 3808 should put out 130 or 120watts per channel... Did any of you run more circuit breakers into the room where you are using this equipment.... at 1200watts thats 10 amps.... my family room only has one 15amp breaker.. I am going to need a whole breaker just for the stereo system...

The electric bill is going to suck but at least I can charge my neighbors part of it... I mean, with a home theater, they are going to by hearing/seeing the HT whether they like it or not (we are attempting a 100inch screen with a projector :) )... might as well charge them for the service :) j/k

Is the Servo worth the extra cost (at full price) as compared to the PW-2200??

[BabelFish]

Between these two systems... which would be better:

Fronts: Monitor 11v5
S BL/S BR: ADP-390 v5
BL/BR: ADP-390 v5
Center: CC-290 v5 (would this be ok.. or should I go with the 390???)
Sub: Servo 15

OR

Fronts: Studio 60 (maybe 100 but probably not)
S BL/S BR: ADP-590
BL/BR: ADP-590
Center: CC-590 v5 (would this be ok.. or should I go with the 390???)
Sub: Servo 15

[Sheep]

Between these two systems... which would be better:

Fronts: Monitor 11v5
S BL/S BR: ADP-390 v5
BL/BR: ADP-390 v5
Center: CC-290 v5 (would this be ok.. or should I go with the 390???)
Sub: Servo 15

OR

Fronts: Studio 60 (maybe 100 but probably not)
S BL/S BR: ADP-590
BL/BR: ADP-590
Center: CC-590 v5 (would this be ok.. or should I go with the 390???)
Sub: Servo 15

If you want bass that will rattle your ancestors, look into SVS. Should be cheaper then the Paradigm units, and better.

www.svsound.com For you, A PB-12Plus/2 should be plenty.

As for everything else, should be good. I've never heard a paradigm *speaker* I didn't really like (some of their subs were less then ideal though).

SheepStar

[BabelFish]

you are saying that the svs pb12-ultra/2 will hit harder then the servo 15???

Does anyone in IL have this unit that I can come over and listen to it?? :) They seem to only be an online dealer.

[Sheep]

you are saying that the svs pb12-ultra/2 will hit harder then the servo 15???

Does anyone in IL have this unit that I can come over and listen to it?? :) They seem to only be an online dealer.

Yes, that is what I'm saying. Many members on these boards have this unit, some in giant rooms (4000 cubic feet, up to 8000cubic feet) and they all say it is more then enough. I don't know how large your room is, but this subwoofer would definitely have higher output, and a deeper response then the servo-15. Oh, I think it's also cheaper.

SheepStar

[BabelFish]

I am sorry.... the picture does not do it justice... I didn't realize that it was 2 12 inch woofers.. it looked like 2 6 inch from the picture.. I had to read it to get the full impact... WOW! I will definitely put that on my table to consider... it is cheaper too.. is the cheapest one (the black non glossy finish) have the same finish like most black speakers?? Will it match?

[BabelFish]

I am trying to do some research on the Ultra/2 compared to the Plus/2.. They both seem to be the same size and have two 12inch subs.. What is the difference other than the amount of watts?

my room is 19ftx18ft.... but don't let that stop you from suggesting the Ultra/2... we will be getting a bigger house sometime in the future.. :) room for growth... never can have too much bass.. you can always turn it down but you can only turn it up so much......

[Sheep]

I am trying to do some research on the Ultra/2 compared to the Plus/2.. They both seem to be the same size and have two 12inch subs.. What is the difference other than the amount of watts?

my room is 19ftx18ft.... but don't let that stop you from suggesting the Ultra/2... we will be getting a bigger house sometime in the future.. :) room for growth... never can have too much bass.. you can always turn it down but you can only turn it up so much......

Well, the Ultra driver was better then the Plus driver. More linear, higher excursion etc etc. But since the 12.3 released, apparently (from what I've heard) they're almost the same. There should be a new Ultra driver coming out soon, so the margins between the Plus and Ultra are back in order.

The Plus/2 is just the best for the buck IMO.

The Finish is a textured black spray, kinda like those spray on truck bed liners. Its very durable, and actually makes the enclosure stronger. If you have a significant other that needs pleasing, you can try the real food finished too.

Also, the textured black doesn't come with the PEQ.

SheepStar

[Sheep]

The Plus/2 should be capable of this (with the 12.3 drivers, better) performance. It's a ground plain measurement taken at 2m from the the subwoofer.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4710&rid=0&SQ=0

This is the Servo-15 measured under the same conditions.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=3837&rid=0&SQ=0

As you can see, they're both pretty flat, but the plus/2 has roughly 10dB more output across it's frequency response.

As I said earlier, those PB-12Plus/2 measurements are from an older model, using different drivers. The new drivers are suposedly better, so you can expect better numbers then those.

SheepStar

[BabelFish]

so wait.. are you saying to go with the Plus/2 or the Ultra/2... I am just about sold on the SVS in general.. now it is just which one to get...

You also said that the Ultra/2 is supposed to be coming out with a new model.. do you know when that is supposed to happen? Is it being debut at CES 2007 (this week)??


ohh.. I am sorry.. you have been saying the Plus/2 from the very beginning.. I introduced the Ultra/2 in this conversation... Are you thinking that the Ultra/2 (with the new drivers) would be something to consider or not worth the extra money?

[dobyblue]

The Plus/2 should be capable of this (with the 12.3 drivers, better) performance. It's a ground plain measurement taken at 2m from the the subwoofer.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4710&rid=0&SQ=0

This is the Servo-15 measured under the same conditions.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=3837&rid=0&SQ=0

As you can see, they're both pretty flat, but the plus/2 has roughly 10dB more output across it's frequency response.

As I said earlier, those PB-12Plus/2 measurements are from an older model, using different drivers. The new drivers are suposedly better, so you can expect better numbers then those.

SheepStar
Stop the press! That's the old 400W RMS Servo 15v1 they're testing there.
In order to see the Servo 15v2 you need to look at the response graph for the Signature Servo as it is the exact same as the Servo 15v2 with a swankier cabinet.
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4204
Big difference.

Nothing SVS makes will go as deep or is as powerful as the Servo 15v2.

[BabelFish]

Is this a debate that has already been done? Is there a thread that I can read about this? Servo 15v2 vs PB12 Ultra/2 ??

Or should I make a thread and see what happens as people go at it?? I am just torn here on which would be a better route...

[Nuglets]

Between these two systems... which would be better:

Fronts: Monitor 11v5
S BL/S BR: ADP-390 v5
BL/BR: ADP-390 v5
Center: CC-290 v5 (would this be ok.. or should I go with the 390???)
Sub: Servo 15

OR

Fronts: Studio 60 (maybe 100 but probably not)
S BL/S BR: ADP-590
BL/BR: ADP-590
Center: CC-590 v5 (would this be ok.. or should I go with the 390???)
Sub: Servo 15

As far as those two systems go the second one is much better. The 590 center channel would be my choice, I don't have that kind of cash but if you do you will not be dissatisfied with it, so it's up to you to decide. I own the Monitor 11's and they are great sounding speaker's but not quite like the studio series and if you are going to get that Servo or SVS you will not need 3 x 6.5" bass driver's to go with it. For front's I would go with the Studio 40's for sure because there is no need for the lower frequency response in your situation.

[dobyblue]

I own the Monitor 11's and they are great sounding speaker's but not quite like the studio series and if you are going to get that Servo or SVS you will not need 3 x 6.5" bass driver's to go with it.
You might not need it, but it sure is fantastic to have it.

With the 11v5 you get 2 x 7.5" bass drivers instead of 3 x 6.5" bass drivers.

[Sheep]

Stop the press! That's the old 400W RMS Servo 15v1 they're testing there.
In order to see the Servo 15v2 you need to look at the response graph for the Signature Servo as it is the exact same as the Servo 15v2 with a swankier cabinet.
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4204
Big difference.

Nothing SVS makes will go as deep or is as powerful as the Servo 15v2.

You asked for it.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4222&rid=0&SQ=0

Secondly, he only mentioned the V1. Had he said he was considering the V2, I would have posted the measurements of that, highlighting the giant 10% THD spike at 120Hz, which tapers all the way down to 80Hz.

Now that he is considering the Ultra, Paradigm has no chance. Period.

Do your homework before you call someone out.

SheepStar

[Buckeyefan 1]

Nothing SVS makes will go as deep or is as powerful as the Servo 15v2.

If that were true I would have bought it. I was very disappointed in the Servo series from Paradigm during a recent trip to a few high end shops in Canada. After demoing all the SVS models (and the original Plus drivers), there is no comparison. The only thing the Servo has over the Plus/2 or Ultra/2 is WAF.

[j_garcia]

I agree with Nuglets. I'd go with 40s and a good sub (SVS, HSU).

Sorry to say it, but the Servo 15 doesn't stand a chance against a comparable SVS or HSU sub.

[Nuglets]

You might not need it, but it sure is fantastic to have it.

With the 11v5 you get 2 x 7.5" bass drivers instead of 3 x 6.5" bass drivers.

Not if you don't use them though. It's actually a disappointment when they are there but you aren't using them and if you try it doesn't sound good anyways. Yes they are nice and they look nice too, but if you are using a subwoofer you will want to use the receiver's internal crossover to get a nice blend of bass and midrange instead of having the frequencies overlap and interfere with each other. As I have already stated, I had a sub and not long after I got those 90P's I I sold it because no matter how much I tried I couldn't blend them together well, it just sounded worse than when I used one or the other. I sold my sub because the accuracy and extension was greater with the 90P's than the PS-1200. The documentation will show otherwise which is why you can't buy based on that specification. There are many factor's other than the sub itself that will dictate the low frequency response such as room acoustics, placement, listening position, etc... I can almost guarantee without even hearing it, that the SVS will rock the pants off of my 90P's low frequency response and maximum dB's at low frequencies and I'm willing to bet that the Servo or HSU's will probably do the same. Good Luck

[BabelFish]

When I look at the spec, I don't see any difference between the base/midrange driver and the Bass Driver on the Studio 40 and Studio 60.. What am I missing? Why would the 40 be better for me then the 60 (with that being the case)?

Ok, so if I was to heed the advice of all that I am hearing here (which is awesome!!) I should get:

Amp: Denon 3808
Fronts: Studio 40v4
S BL/S BR: Studio ADP590
BL/ BR: Studio ADP590
Center: StudioCC590
Sub: PB12-Ultra/2

How much should that run me (minus the Amp).. just so I know before I go into a store and get gouged on their prices.

Also.. Is the ADP-590 ok for the sides and rears or should I consider some other speaker like Studio 20? Thanks again.

I understand that the speaker system is the most important part of a home theater but I can't have it take all of my money. I don't want to skimp with the projector. :) I think I can find someway to justify the bass unit regardless though :)

Also are the Studio v4 going to sound that much better than the Monitor v5 Series considering the extra amount more that I am going to have to pay in order to get them?

[BabelFish]

bumpbumpbump

[j_garcia]

I personally would go with 20s, at least for the rears. Could go either way on the sides, but if your room is a normal rectangle and allows for proper mounting, the ADPs should work well. Yes, go with the Studios over the Monitors.

[BabelFish]

Ok sounds good! :)

What about this question? "When I look at the spec, I don't see any difference between the base/midrange driver and the Bass Driver on the Studio 40 and Studio 60.. What am I missing? Why would the 40 be better for me then the 60 (with that being the case)?"

Thanks again!

[j_garcia]

The 40s and 60s use the exact same drivers, the only difference is cabinet tuning and size. The larger enclosure of the 60s gives you a little more bass extension, but with a good sub, the 40s will already do fine. IMO, it will come down to a personal preference, mostly visually. I feel the 40s are a bit more controlled because they don't have the lower tuned cabinet. One other thing to consider is that the 40s will most likely need stands too.

[BabelFish]

What are the normal price for the stands and what brand do you recommend (Paradigm or some\one else)?

[j_garcia]

You can get good stands for around $100-150. Paradigm's stands (J series) are more than that though, and other than looking nice, they don't really offer any real advantage over any other stand. The S series are OK, but aren't near the same quality as the J series. I think they run about $100/pr. or so.

I use the Parts Express High Mass stands. They are without question the sturdiest stands I've found for the price. Part Number 240-744

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l181/jgarcia14/HT/240-744L.jpg

[BabelFish]

are those ok on hardwood floors? :)

[j_garcia]

The spikes are removable and you can either find some rubber feet that fit the threads or just use some sticky rubber feet on the bottom. They also sell little metal "pads" with indents on them that you can put under the spikes for a few dollars.

[BabelFish]

Sounds good.. I added them to my purchase list :)

[j_garcia]

I do have to mention though, the top plate is wider than the 40s, so there is a little "overhang" of the plate on the left and right side compared to the speakers (I've had the 40s in my setup).

[Nuglets]

Another difference between the 40's and the 60's is price. I really can't give you an estimate at the moment on either of them but I do imagine that the 60's will cost you a few hundred more so if you are getting a sub like the SVS you can save some cash by getting the 40's and not lose any performance overall.

[Dizastical]

when i listened to both in person i did notice a distinct difference between the two. i would spenjd the extra money and get the 60s so you dont wonder if you should have latter down the road.

[BabelFish]

yeah, its still in the air. if I can swing it, I would like to get the 60s. It will all depend on how much I can save and what everything else costs. :)

[Nuglets]

when i listened to both in person i did notice a distinct difference between the two. i would spenjd the extra money and get the 60s so you dont wonder if you should have latter down the road.

You will notice a distinct difference if you were listening to them by themselves with a full range signal going to them. If you listen to them crossed over at the same frequency with the same receiver and powered subwoofer I doubt you will notice the difference because they use the exact same driver's. Any noticeable difference can probably be attributed to something other than the speaker itself if you did this test as I have described.

[BabelFish]

"full range signal going to them" ?? meaning only those speakers hooked up?

Just curious. If there is no difference then why sell the two different types. The the answer is Bookshelf vs Free Standing then the price difference seems rather high for just that.

You will notice a distinct difference if you were listening to them by themselves with a full range signal going to them. If you listen to them crossed over at the same frequency with the same receiver and powered subwoofer I doubt you will notice the difference because they use the exact same driver's. Any noticeable difference can probably be attributed to something other than the speaker itself if you did this test as I have described.

[j_garcia]

I already said this before, the 60s have a larger cabinet and lower tuning, so despite the identical drivers, the 60s will give you more bass. That is the only difference. The 60s would allow you to cross over lower to the sub, say 60Hz if you have a processor that allows that, but if you cross them both at 80Hz, they will sound pretty much the same.

[BabelFish]

You are right. You did say that before. :)

I already said this before, the 60s have a larger cabinet and lower tuning, so despite the identical drivers, the 60s will give you more bass. That is the only difference. The 60s would allow you to cross over lower to the sub, say 60Hz if you have a processor that allows that, but if you cross them both at 80Hz, they will sound pretty much the same.

[Nuglets]

And that's exactly what I meant also. That is why you would hear a difference between the 40's and the 60's if you listen to only them sent a full range signal without a subwoofer. If however, you use a receiver's bass management to send low frequencies to a subwoofer and anything above the crossover point to the front speaker's you shouldn't hear any difference because the driver's are exactly the same and the only difference is the tuning of the cabinet which is irrelevant because the low frequencies will roll off quite sharply and the subwoofer will handle them.

[Warpdrv]

So just figuring in dollars and sense with a 10% discount.
If you get the 40's... add a pair of stands for $150.
your only about $200. shy of the 60's...
Because I see he has a SVS sub in the mix, and how often will he be shutting that big $$ box off to listen to 2 channel full speaker sound... :cool: :cool:
I have a stinking suspicion that SVS will never be shut off.. hehehh

Now does having a floorstander differ in the abilities of placement, as opposed to monitors on a stand...

I should be receiving my Studio 100's this week, So I'll have to get back to ya about room placement.. not that I have a lot of options..

[BabelFish]

I have a stinking suspicion that SVS will never be shut off.. hehehh


Does anyone have a SVS and a new born? :) We don't have any yet... but maybe in the near future... (nothing in the oven yet).. Does the rolling bass cause the same affect as a long car ride for the little ones? :) I can only hope.

If not, then there may be a reason to turn it down/off at times. In that case the 60s may come in handy so I will have some low end.

[Nuglets]

It's up to you, but in my opinion bass at 30Hz is just as annoying as bass at 15-20Hz when I'm trying to sleep. Basically if you are attempting to be quiet, the only way to do so is to turn the overall volume down. It will give you similar result's whether you have the 40's with the sub on or the 60's without the sub on assuming that the sub level is correct relative to the mains. The 60's will not go as low without the sub, but 30Hz is still bass and it will be just as bothersome as 20Hz in my opinion so if you are attempting to keep the bass quiet you will have to cross them over at a higher frequency anyways or just turn the volume down. I don't think that the 60's will have any advantage over the 40's in your situation.

Also, just because that sub is enormous and is capable of producing very loud bass doesn't mean that it is always loud. If the system is properly setup the sub should blend in as an extension of the mains so it shouldn't be any louder relative to the other speaker's.

[Warpdrv]

Also, just because that sub is enormous and is capable of producing very loud bass doesn't mean that it is always loud. If the system is properly setup the sub should blend in as an extension of the mains so it shouldn't be any louder relative to the other speaker's.

+1 on that Nuglets...

Mine is crossed over right now at 50hz and I roll off the sub a little higher, and it blends in beautifully, substancial bass going to the sub, and still get mid bass in my polks.. blends perfectly...

Im just a freakin twitchy bastard here waiting for my Paradigms.. grrrr

[BabelFish]

It really sounds like everyone is suggesting the 40s. I am just not sure why I would want to go with the 60s. Maybe it is something to do with wanting the floorstanding model. (it might just be mental). If the difference is only $200 (after including the stands) then I might just put the extra $200 and get the next model up. It is hard going from the 90p (Floorstanding) to the 40s. Then again, I haven't seen either (40s or the 60s) in person yet. Dealers near me didn't have them on the floor.

[billy p]

It really sounds like everyone is suggesting the 40s. I am just not sure why I would want to go with the 60s. Maybe it is something to do with wanting the floorstanding model. (it might just be mental). If the difference is only $200 (after including the stands) then I might just put the extra $200 and get the next model up. It is hard going from the 90p (Floorstanding) to the 40s. Then again, I haven't seen either (40s or the 60s) in person yet. Dealers near me didn't have them on the floor.

You may want to reconsider because most members would tell you it's a bit more tricky to dial in the perfect bass sound field when you have a sub combined with floors.

[Warpdrv]

That dealer in racine has every model of the studio series...

Here is a review I wrote after I went to that dealership...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9399093&&#post9399093

Warp

[BabelFish]

Man that rotel looks awesome! I will have to think about the 40s vs 60s.. :(

I might have to add one of those down the line and combine it with whatever amp I end up with :) (If I do ever find out about the denon 3808)

[Nuglets]

It is hard going from the 90p (Floorstanding) to the 40s.

Trust me...with an SVS for bass you will have no reason to miss the 90P's...guaranteed!!

[BabelFish]

I personally would go with 20s, at least for the rears. Could go either way on the sides, but if your room is a normal rectangle and allows for proper mounting, the ADPs should work well. Yes, go with the Studios over the Monitors.

While I am picking brains here, what would be the setup (room shape, size) where the ADP would do better in the back and the sides as compared to the 20s in the back and ADP on the sides? Just trying to figure in any future house.

[billy p]

While I am picking brains here, what would be the setup (room shape, size) where the ADP would do better in the back and the sides as compared to the 20s in the back and ADP on the sides? Just trying to figure in any future house.

yourself nuts:p. Just make your decision and sit back and enjoy. You'll figure those things out over time:).

[BabelFish]

yourself nuts:p. Just make your decision and sit back and enjoy. You'll figure those things out over time:).

I will figure out what over time? Whether I should have chosen the ADP instead of the 20s for the rears? :)

I am just wondering if there is any advantage of one over the other for the rears.. For the sides I am pretty sure I will get the ADP but for the rears I am just wondering what the difference will be (in terms of sound quality, etc) between the two (20s and ADP). :)

[billy p]

Most people would say go with monitors in the back. Larger floor like speaker tend to be hard to position as surrounds for optimum sound, due to their size and weight and the drivers would be pointed to low to the listener.:)

*Edit* I guess your not going with the floors(90P's):o. To many distractions around here, kids.:o :)

[BabelFish]

Most people would say go with monitors in the back. Larger floor like speaker tend to be hard to position as surrounds for optimum sound, due to their size and weight and the drivers would be pointed to low to the listener.:)

*Edit* I guess your not going with the floors(90P's):o. To many distractions around here, kids.:o :)

Unfortunately the 90p's got discontinued :(
I would be going with floors (possibly) for the fronts (Studio 60s or the 40s-which are not floors). the backs are what is in question.

I am trying to find out whether the ADP or the 20s would be better for the rears and why they would be better. I was recommended the 20s depending on the shape of the room. I am wondering what other considerations need to be considered and what is better for different rooms shapes.

Thx for the comments though :)

[Warpdrv]

I would go with ADP's side, and 20's rear... if your room will accomadate.. meaning if your room is long enough and isn't too narrow..

As promised, here are a couple of pics of my New 100's.. and let me tell you..
They Rock the house... no comparison between them and the old Polks..
Simply amazing.. :) and Check out this CC-690.. Oh MY GOD !!! Gynormous..

Im just awestruck, sounds tight and clear and the L-C-R front sounds fantastic.
Fit and finish is spectacular...
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/IMG_1647-small.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d109/Warpdrv/home%20theater/IMG_1645-small.jpg

[Nuglets]

That's the kind of center channel I'm talking about. If you get a center somewhat like that one, the Studio 40's, an SVS, and whatever you are planning on getting for the rears, no matter what it is you choose, you will be very pleased and your friend with the 90P's will be very jealous when he hears it.:)

[Warpdrv]

+1 on that one too Nuglets....
If you listen to mostly Movies... don't slouch on the CC...
This thing sounds every bit as good as the 100's.. in fact its only a few inches shy of the height of 100's... its just monsterous.. :) Wooot Wooot !!!!

You could get by with 20's for the L & R, and still be fine..
I had other plans though, as I will have a setting on my receiver for 2 channel audio with monitors set to large, to see how they perform... I have no doubt they will sound awesome, I currently have them set as small for movie's sake, and crossed over at 50hz... they are so tight and clean.. I am in heaven !!

Warp

[BabelFish]

My goodness Warpdrv that looks sooooo good!!! Uhg.. maybe I will go with the 40s and upgrade to those 100s later :) that center channel looks awesome!!!! :) I am sooo jealous!!!

[BabelFish]

Where is the proper place to put the center channel? Can it go on the floor or does it need to be higher? Thx.

[Warpdrv]

I wouldn't want it on the floor, you were talking about a Projector, and it should be up off the floor a bit, you can put it on a CC stand aimed up towards the listening position. There are many stands out there, or you could build one yourself.

I knew what speaker I wanted before I bought my furniture, so it was planned to go where it is all along.

http://www.racksandstands.com/Plateau-ST-CC-17-S-PT0110.html

[BabelFish]

I wouldn't want it on the floor, you were talking about a Projector, and it should be up off the floor a bit, you can put it on a CC stand aimed up towards the listening position. There are many stands out there, or you could build one yourself.

I knew what speaker I wanted before I bought my furniture, so it was planned to go where it is all along.

http://www.racksandstands.com/Plateau-ST-CC-17-S-PT0110.html

you are not still using that stand are you? I saw your center speaker on the table under your tv. Where is that stand now? :)

Oh.. I thought you bought that stand that you are showing in the link. my mistake :) nvm

[dobyblue]

You asked for it.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=4222&rid=0&SQ=0

Secondly, he only mentioned the V1. Had he said he was considering the V2, I would have posted the measurements of that, highlighting the giant 10% THD spike at 120Hz, which tapers all the way down to 80Hz.

Now that he is considering the Ultra, Paradigm has no chance. Period.

Do your homework before you call someone out.

SheepStar
No-one's calling you out sheepstar, so don't be so defensive.
The most recent posts all seemed to be about a new Servo, which could only be the V2.
AV haven't tested the v2 of the servo, but I can only assume it would be similar to the Sig.
THD above 80Hz would not be relevant to me as I have my crossover set to 80Hz. The SVS also rolls off in frequency response above 80Hz, the Servo remains flat, despite the THD peak at higher volumes.
If you look at normal listening levels of 100 dB, you'll see that the Sig has better response on THD. At 20Hz/100dB the Ultra has 10% THD and the Sig has 6%. At 20Hz/95dB the Ultra has 8% THD, the sig has 4%.
From my point of view based on those graphs, with the exception of the higher 80Hz+ frequencies at very loud volumes that the Ultra can't be tested at, the Servo plays cleaner, deeper and more powerfully than the Ultra between 12Hz - 80Hz, which means it also beats the PC Plus.

Are you getting better performance per dollar from the SVS? Yes, absolutely. It's a thousand dollars cheaper. Would I trade? Absolutely not.

[BabelFish]

Interesting comment dobyblue. Thx! Any thoughts on this?

[dobyblue]

Those figures for the SVS are for the Ultra cylinder though - they don't have graphs for the Ultra PB models.

If you're going with full range speakers you could run your crossover at 50Hz-60Hz and then you're ignoring the spike at high decibels around 120Hz.
The Servo performs very well in the lower bass range, which is after all what it's for.

Servo - 40HZ/100dB = 1%
PB12+2 - 40HZ/100dB = 1%
DD15 - 40Hz/100dB = 1.5%

Servo - 30HZ/100dB = 3%
PB12+2 - 30HZ/100dB = 4%
DD15 - 30Hz/100dB = 2.5%

Servo - 20HZ/100dB = 5.5%
PB12+2 - 20HZ/100dB = 14.5%
DD15 - 20Hz/100dB = 9.5%

Servo - 40HZ/105dB = 1.5%
PB12+2 - 40HZ/105dB = 1.5%
DD15 - 40Hz/105dB = 2.25%

Servo - 30HZ/105dB = 3%
PB12+2 - 30HZ/105dB = 7.5%
DD15 - 30Hz/105dB = 3%

Servo - 20HZ/105dB = 7%
PB12+2 - 20HZ/105dB = 30%
DD15 - 20Hz/105dB = 13.5%

[BabelFish]

dobyblue, Do you own the Servo 15?

Are you recommending me get the Servo 15 instead of the SVS then?

So you feel that the Servo 15 out performs the SVS (Ultra, Ultra/2, Plus, Plus/2)?

How would the Servo 15 compare to the new SVS Ultra13?

Thanks again!

[dobyblue]

I own the v2 of the Paradigm Servo. (Grilles only off for pic)

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1802/picture0265yu.th.jpg (http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0265yu.jpg)

No doubt the Ultra 13 will be an awesome sub, with it's 10Hz tuning port! :eek:

I have constantly been blown away by the Servo 15's depths and precision. Listening to bass monster tracks like Underworld's "River of Bass" and Happy Monday's "WFL Think About The Future" I just hear and feel the bass like I've never experienced before. Movies and Hi-rez music are also an awesome experience.

That said the Ultra/2 is also an awesome sub - it's 190 lbs!!! The Servo still maintains less THD when you get down to the depths, but Home Theatre Hifi measure only 15% THD at 100dB with the Ultra which is pretty sweet. The Servo flows quite smoothly down at that depth and does not go above 8%. However HTH and AV's conditions are totally different, so those results can really be compared.

If you want a serious sub and you're considering either the SVS Ultra/2 or the Paradigm Servo v2 I really don't think you can go wrong. I didn't.

[blind62]

I noticed that the Monitor 90p were discontinued last year. What frustrates me is that there is no good replacement for it. I have been saving for several years now for my ultimate system and now I am not sure what to do. (I just found this out this week... uhg.. I need to check the internet more often!)

My Ultimate System
> Amp: Denon AVR-3808 (Debut CES 2007... -Replacement of the AVR-3806)
> Fronts: Monitor 90p
> Center: CC-370
> SBL/SBR: ADP-370
> BL/BR: ADP-370
> Sub: PW-2200

The Monitor 90p had Low-Frequency Extension of 22Hz and the Frequency Response of 28Hz-20kHz. None of the other Monitors (v4 or v5) comes close to that. What am I supposed to do? Any suggestions?

I am pretty set with the Paradigm name brand so please.... no brand bashing. Thanks for all of your help!

I have a set of the 90p's for sale like new 900.00

[taniarlmd]

Hi!
If this person is still interested, I'm selling the Paradigm monitor 90P Loudspeakers on Ebay. They are the best speakers we have ever had, but due to two special needs toddlers, we need to downsize!