speaker/HT help for beginner

Hello everyone, I've been pouring through the reviews on this site and others trying to determine the best way to setup my front room. I have three major constraints: cost, my oddly laid out front room, and the infamous wife acceptance factor.

My goals: I will be using the system for music (wide range of genres), movies and gaming. My priority for sound quality is in that order, with gaming be of much lower importance than music and movies.

Constraints:
Cost: I'd like to keep the cost of my setup (speakers and receiver) to around $500.

WaF: The wife is very hesitant concerning surrounds, and just speakers in general. Good looks in this case are a big plus. I'm looking for black/brown palette.

Living room layout: This is the tricky part. Before I start, let me just say that I don't have any flexibility in terms of moving things around. That said, here are the details. The room in 11x16. Ceilings are about 9'. The TV stand (46") is centered at one end on an 11' wall. Walls are concrete.

(I will describe as though facing the TV now)

Wall to the right of the TV: a 5' opening which leads to the dining room. Further down this wall I have a L-shaped sofa set which runs from the end of the 5' opening to the corner of the room and then on the 11' opposite the TV (far wall). There is a door in the remaining space on that wall.

On the wall left of the TV: a centered love seat. It faces the middle of the room (like the other pieces). Two windows which are on the TV side of the room.

On the TV wall: centered TV stand. To the right there is about 2.5' of open space (until the opening). To the left 1' until a door starts. The TV is 27". On the stand I have 11" to either side of the TV.

If that all made any sense, then I think the major problem jumps out right away. I don't think there really is any good spot to put surrounds in this room given the furniture layout. Both sofas that are used for viewing are against the wall. One person is usually on the love seat and the other sitting back in the corner on the L-shaped sofa. So, getting the surrounds on either sides of the viewers would be very difficult. I don't know a lot about surround placement, but from what I've seen it looks like they are supposed to be to the side (for 5.1).

Now, I don't need earth shattering performance (especially for $500), and music quality is my highest priority, so I was thinking of setting up a 2 or 2.1 system instead. I was looking through reviews and hot deals, and three speaker sets caught my attention.

1) Infinity Primus 150. Great reviews, cheap ($80 for 2). They would fit on my TV stand. But would this offer enough separation? Probably would like/need a sub with these.

2) Infinity Primus 250 ($200 for 2). Haven't read many reviews, but I'm assuming the quality is equivalent or better than 150s, but with better bass. Since these are floor standing I could get more separation and not have to worry about getting stands separately. Hopefully they could eliminate the need for a sub as well.

3) Onix x-ls ($200 for 2). These are 13" wide, so I would probably need stands since they wouldn't fit on my TV stand.

In terms of the receiver, I'm open to suggestions as I haven't dug into that issue yet. But what I'm really trying to figure out now is if a surround setup is even feasible. If not, what do you think of above setups? Are there other options I should consider.

Thanks in advance if you take the time to help me figure this out

IMO your best bet is to find a good older receiver as prices for these on audigon or ebay are usually low. As far as speakers go, again try ebay. I just received a brand new pair of JBL E30's for 79.00 delivered. But you can find many other brands in your price range. Just shop and be patient. Good Luck

further clarification

I've done some further negotiating with the spousal unit, and it looks like the floor standing units have been given the green light. So the surrounds are out. I can go with a sub as well if needed.

So, for around $300 - $500 for the speakers (or with sub), what should I keep my eyes open for on audiogon, or new for that matter? What are the top contenders in this form factor and price range?

Thanks for your help!

i know this is a bit out of your price range, but when it comes to good equiptment... i would spend a little now to save later.... you shouls give these a good look... and if a package is too much to get all at once.. buy them as you can aford them...

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/

good luck and welcome to the site

you might try www.fluance.com and check them out.i'm going to get the center myself soon.i haven't heard them but like the reviews i've read.i'm in a low budget myself.if you've never had a ht system before you'll be surprized at how much of a difference one will make.get what you can afford and enjoy it.don't let someone talk you into more than you can pay and most folks here have been doing this for a while.

shallots said:

I've done some further negotiating with the spousal unit, and it looks like the floor standing units have been given the green light. So the surrounds are out. I can go with a sub as well if needed.

So, for around $300 - $500 for the speakers (or with sub), what should I keep my eyes open for on audiogon, or new for that matter? What are the top contenders in this form factor and price range?

Thanks for your help!

Click to expand...

I was in the same boat.
The Wife factor
Cheapish
And my room is 11x16 with the same type of layout, but not concrete walls.

Ebay is your best friend at this point as it was for me. 98%+ feedbacks and go through those feedbacks looking at the negatives.
Why, one of the first things you see at these forums, and guys dont take this wrong, is Audiophiles or people living as one are really Audiopiles. There never happy, always have to have more, there is not end limit in sound and power.
So ebay is full of hoards of there piles, at good prices making you get deals on equipment that you would never been able to afford.

This is not a recommendation, just what I went through and my cost.

I went to Onkyo and joined there club, that netted me a discount of $10. Not much, but I had scoured ebay and had picked Onkyos out for performance and power while staying price conscious. The 303 is a 503 less features I would not need, so why pay the extra. Joining Onkyo and others do have their clubs also and offer similar things I got a 303, refurbed for $89 and shipping was $18.64. Ebay at this point wasnt favored, but could be for you since your not gonna run rears.
I listened to speaker locally and for my price range I was looking to stay in,actually it was more than I wanted to spend, but ebay was the ally here, I liked the Polk lineup for again performance and pricing. Got someones had to upgrade again Polk R-30 towers, for $125 including shipping. You may pick another brand, thats fine, but that $125 spent new would have been $300 ish, gives you and idea.
You then could pick a center of the same lineup and do the same thing, mine was $100 shipped.
I got rears, but you arent, but my rears were $80 more and I picked up the sub for $118.50 shipped.
You could easily keep under $500 and have something that was better than a all in one with decent power and sound!!

Onix b-stock

There are some X-LS speakers and X-subs on B-stock at av123.com so you could get a 2.1 system for $350 + shipping and have enough left for an entry level receiver. If you want to expand to surround sound, than get a multichannel receiver like the Yamaha HTR-5830 or comparable models from Denon, Onkyo, and Pioneer.

Thanks for all the input everyone.

The Ascend towers do look very nice. The reviews on audioreview are consistently good.

In all my searching I bumped into the Magnepans. They appear to have great sound, but I am little concerned about positioning in my room. It seems the sweet spot on these is small which would be very bad for me. Also, it seems they need a lot of power to drive.

Axiom's have also stood out, but their towers are more than I want to spend. I'm considering these on the used front.

I was considering Athena AS-F2.2, but there seems to not be a lot positive said about them out there.

The other usual suspects it seems are Paradigm Monitor 7 and 9, and B&W 60x.

I'd like to add just a little more about my listening tastes. From the research I've done, it seems I need a versatile speaker. I listen to classical, jazz, hard rock, acoustic/folk. I'm not really sure how that affects some of my choices above though.

Are there any others I should be considering?

if your look at paradigm monitors 7 and 9s

shallots said:

Thanks for all the input everyone.

The Ascend towers do look very nice. The reviews on audioreview are consistently good.

In all my searching I bumped into the Magnepans. They appear to have great sound, but I am little concerned about positioning in my room. It seems the sweet spot on these is small which would be very bad for me. Also, it seems they need a lot of power to drive.

Axiom's have also stood out, but their towers are more than I want to spend. I'm considering these on the used front.

I was considering Athena AS-F2.2, but there seems to not be a lot positive said about them out there.

The other usual suspects it seems are Paradigm Monitor 7 and 9, and B&W 60x.

I'd like to add just a little more about my listening tastes. From the research I've done, it seems I need a versatile speaker. I listen to classical, jazz, hard rock, acoustic/folk. I'm not really sure how that affects some of my choices above though.

Are there any others I should be considering?

Click to expand...

I was going to recommend the PSB Alpha towers initially but if your now looking at the Paradigm Monitor series, then I suggest looking at the Image Series of PSB.

I own these:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/product.php?pId=14&sId=3

I own these speakers and prefer the PSB sound over the Paradigms. They have a smoother treble and tighter bass then the monitor 7s or 9s. Least thats what I've heard from listening to both.

Here's a professional review of them,

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/psb_image_t45.htm

and a review I did of them;
http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/psb-speakers/floorstanding-speakers/PRD_329036_1594crx.aspx

jcPanny said:

There are some X-LS speakers and X-subs on B-stock at av123.com so you could get a 2.1 system for $350 + shipping and have enough left for an entry level receiver. If you want to expand to surround sound, than get a multichannel receiver like the Yamaha HTR-5830 or comparable models from Denon, Onkyo, and Pioneer.

Click to expand...

The x-ls seem very nice. The only bummer is that the stand costs as much as the speaker practically. It's hard for me to figure out-- what gives me more bang for the buck? The b-stock x-ls's ($325 + $40 s/h) or the ascend cmt-340 ($668 + $50 s/h), both with stands.

I don't need crazy bass. I was thinking the x-ls would still need a sub while the cmt-340 would not.

Since you're into the $600 range, I'll throw the Polk RTi-8s into the mix. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Omf2ZdHsNkc/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=12000&I=107RTI8C&search=polk

3db said:

I was going to recommend the PSB Alpha towers initially but if your now looking at the Paradigm Monitor series, then I suggest looking at the Image Series of PSB.

I own these:

http://www.psbspeakers.com/product.php?pId=14&sId=3

I own these speakers and prefer the PSB sound over the Paradigms. They have a smoother treble and tighter bass then the monitor 7s or 9s. Least thats what I've heard from listening to both.

Here's a professional review of them,

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/psb_image_t45.htm

and a review I did of them;
http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/psb-speakers/floorstanding-speakers/PRD_329036_1594crx.aspx

Click to expand...

I'm seeing these for $749 before shipping. That might be stretching the budget just a little too far

AVRat said:

Since you're into the $600 range, I'll throw the Polk RTi-8s into the mix. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Omf2ZdHsNkc/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=12000&I=107RTI8C&search=polk

Click to expand...

not a single review on audioreview.. are these brand new or something?

The Polk RTi series has been around for several years. The Polk forum has many reviews, but may be a little biased. There are many members here who have the RTis. http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rti8/?reviews=1

Full range speakers

"Cost: I'd like to keep the cost of my setup (speakers and receiver) to around $500."

Guess I misunderstood your budget. I thought you wanted to spend $500 on the speakers AND a receiver.

For HT applications, all bookshelf speakers and most floorstanders are designed to be used with a sub. However, with a pair of florstanders that play down to the 40 Hz range, you could probably get away without a sub for a while. AV123.com has some B-stock Rocket 450's for $700 if you act fast. They are also planning a floorstanding version of the X-LS speakers for $300/pair if you are willing to wait.

Whatever you pick for speakers, MAKE SURE you can at least listen to them first, or get them on a trail period. DO NOT buy off of recommendations from forums and not because they look good, spec good whatever.

Reason I say this is I saw AVRat recommend the RTi's from Polk. I listend to the lineup from Polk, R's, M's and Rti's which were all in the price range, depending on how I shopped.For my taste in music and my ears, the M's were just to bright, seemed like the treble was turned all the way up, the RTi's for me, also were, but hit mids alot better than my R's and certianly more than the M's.
Some of the others I have seen posted as recommendations were also a bit bright for my tastes and only with a sub would it make alot of this bearable.

I'm from the older days when speakers woofers were no smaller than 8 inches and a bright tweeter was not a bad thing, but to me it seems the focus today with the adding of the sub woofer in systems they dont key on not running one.

jcPanny said:

"Cost: I'd like to keep the cost of my setup (speakers and receiver) to around $500."

Guess I misunderstood your budget. I thought you wanted to spend $500 on the speakers AND a receiver.

For HT applications, all bookshelf speakers and most floorstanders are designed to be used with a sub. However, with a pair of florstanders that play down to the 40 Hz range, you could probably get away without a sub for a while. AV123.com has some B-stock Rocket 450's for $700 if you act fast. They are also planning a floorstanding version of the X-LS speakers for $300/pair if you are willing to wait.

Click to expand...

Yeah, my budget has definitely been creeping upwards

When are those x-ls floors coming out? I saw a bunch of threads from months ago. I was sad to not see them on av123. I want to purchase in the next 5 to 10 days, so I think they are out of the equation.

I've been giving more thought to it and I'm leaning towards the x-ls now. The bass extension seems to be ok, the appearance is good+, the price is obviously right, and ultimately they should perform best for music which is my primary concern (at least I haven't changed that behind your back). I realize I won't get thunderous bass out of movies, but I don't care that much. I just want intelligible dialouge really on that front. If at some point I crave that, there are always plenty of sub vendors.

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the av123 x-ls custom stands for $150 are really worth it? Like I said earlier, I feel a little silly spending $150 on stands for a $219 speaker.. but maybe I'm just thinking about this the wrong way.

Thanks for all your help so far.

shallots said:

Yeah, my budget has definitely been creeping upwards

When are those x-ls floors coming out? I saw a bunch of threads from months ago. I was sad to not see them on av123. I want to purchase in the next 5 to 10 days, so I think they are out of the equation.

I've been giving more thought to it and I'm leaning towards the x-ls now. The bass extension seems to be ok, the appearance is good+, the price is obviously right, and ultimately they should perform best for music which is my primary concern (at least I haven't changed that behind your back). I realize I won't get thunderous bass out of movies, but I don't care that much. I just want intelligible dialouge really on that front. If at some point I crave that, there are always plenty of sub vendors.

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the av123 x-ls custom stands for $150 are really worth it? Like I said earlier, I feel a little silly spending $150 on stands for a $219 speaker.. but maybe I'm just thinking about this the wrong way.

Thanks for all your help so far.

Click to expand...

It's hard to come to a decision, your going back and forth it seems, that's the nature of the beast . Some of the bookshelf speakers mentioned are good suggestions and as you stated it's a start up system. Stay within your budget and remember spending more dosen't always get you more. So buy the best speakers in your opinion and if you get bookshelf speakers, aftermarket stands are a good idea but, spend the money on the speaker!!

billy p said:

It's hard to come to a decision, your going back and forth it seems, that's the nature of the beast . Some of the bookshelf speakers mentioned are good suggestions and as you stated it's a start up system. Stay within your budget and remember spending more dosen't always get you more. So buy the best speakers in your opinion and if you get bookshelf speakers, aftermarket stands are a good idea but, spend the money on the speaker!!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the help everyone. I've decided on a pair of x-ls speakers. I'll grab the refurbs if they are available at the time. I decided to save a little on stands, and went with these:

http://www.dynamichomedecor.com/go/dhd/prod/code/Plateau-W-30-Speaker-Stand.html#

I'm thinking I'll get a sub in the next few months, but first I want to audition the sound in my living room to see what I get.

The final matter to be decided is the receiver. Seeing as I the speakers aren't too expensive, I'm looking in the $350 range. Early contenders:

$389 refurb Yamaha RX-V1500 http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=4559745/qlty=r

$229 refurb Onkyo TX-SR603X http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Onkyo_TX_SR603X_Receiver,__12501453/qlty=r

$320 new Yamaha RXV-659 http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Yamaha_RXV_659_Receiver,__18611394

Any suggestions? Thanks!

Good luck

Don't over spend on the receiver the two cheaper ones would suffice . Speakers are the hub of any stereo or home theater set up .