Why does B*se blows?

[sahihai]

Guys,
I am on the verge of taking my first steps into the HT world and based on my research my first speakers are going to be the likes of SVS and Axiom. As we all know, these are "true to their bone" affordable speakers.
I have read enough to know that some of retail chain brands suck. That includes our famous B*se speakers. Many of my friends bought them because they are suppose to be the best.:rolleyes:
What I want to know is, what are the exact reasons that B*se or like suck. I understand that they are overpriced because of their marketing gimmicks. But is that the only reason? Is is just the "expensive" factor?

[Sheep]

The "Search" function is your friend.

SheepStar

[gmichael]

Bose are not all that bad. (no hate mail please) They just are not as good as many cheaper systems. Those little cubes sound very strained when pushed to just semi-loud volumes. And even at lower volumes they can not compete with most well made speakers & systems. The average Joe (or should I say Jane) wants little speakers that disappear into the decor. And they do sound way better than your average TV speaker. Somehow Bose has brainwashed the masses into believing that they are the best you can buy. This is far from the truth. You can easily put together a $1k system that will outdo a $3k Bose system. If you spend $3k on other products you will blow away anything Bose makes. Other than that, they are just fine. Even better than some $300 all in one systems from Wal-Mart.

[caupina]

I own Bose but not because I was brainwashed or something like that. I just happen to like the way they sounded, got a good deal on them and never had a problem with that brand before, so you can say in my case was a matter of preference (listening to them), price and experience. By the way I own the floor standing speaker model , 701 SII which didn't get a good review here.

[Buckeyefan 1]

Bose obtains its sound from heaving eq'ing, and not quality parts. You can find their drivers for under $5, and their cabinets are usualy plastic. As Sheep stated, just do a google search for "Bose $ucks" and have a laugh over a few beers.

Caupina - no pun intended. Glad you are happy with your speakers - those aren't your typical "cube speakers." Most Bose owners are (they don't shop for audio like us nutjobs do), and most don't hang out at audio forums. Ignorance is bliss. ;)

[wafflebird]

Hmmmmmmm...... Well why do all of the other speaker manufacturers post their specs, frequency response, oh they (Bose) don't list that. They do tell you however how big they are and what the shipping weight is. Without anything further being said this is a huge issue, especially for all of their "Research" they supposedly do, you would think that they would be happy to publish this info. Truth be known the cubes don't really work below 280 Hz and only go up to 13.3 Hz. That is really very poor frequency response for a satellite for sure. The "Bass module" only goes down to around 46 Hz, and then it goes up to 202 Hz. SO what you are presented with is a huge hole in the frequency between 202 and 280 Hz, and a system that is very easy to localize the lower (notice I said lower not actually LOW) frequency sounds. Most floor standing speakers go lower than 46 Hz. Also the "Speakers" in the bass module are only 5" in diameter and made of cheap paper. Now with these few issues brought to light look at what they want you to pay for their system that is missing from 13.3 Hz to 20 Hz, as most speakers easily cover, has a hole in the frequency, and they are plastic enclosed satellites. Need I say more?????????????????

Not bashing just informing, spend your money wisely, don't buy Bose.:cool:

[caupina]

Caupina - no pun intended. Glad you are happy with your speakers - those aren't your typical "cube speakers." Most Bose owners are (they don't shop for audio like us nutjobs do), and most don't hang out at audio forums. Ignorance is bliss. ;)
No worries mate!!!!. I know what I have now is not the best I could get. If something comes along that we (wife) really like, we'll definitely go for it, I guess I haven't looked around hard enough, but at the same time we're very satisfied with what we have now.

[sahihai]

Its true...ignorance is bliss. I would have set up my HT 2 months ago if I were so, and would have never known what I missed.

[highfihoney]

the best thing anybody thinking about buying bose or even thinking why they get a bad rap is to do a simple speaker a & speaker b test with bose on one & just about any other speaker on the other,the reasons are clearly heard.

the thing about bose stuff is that it actually does sound decent........until you do a direct comparison against just about any 2 way speaker then they sound like a wet fart.

here are some of the main reasons people hate bose.

1 plastic cabinets.

2 speakers designed around either midrange or tweeters,no woofers in anything they make.

3 cheap vinyl(more plastic) laminate instead of veneer.

4 unknown specs & tolerances on all their products.

5 100% bs infomercial advertising.

all the makings of a white van special at 10 times the cost.

[Nuglets]

Waffle means 13.3 to 20 kilohertz...not 13.3 Hz to 20 Hz.

[majorloser]

To be honest, Bose appeals to the WAF. The small cubes and "subwoofer you can hide" market strategy will lure women in every time. There are plenty of people who have worked for the big box stores who can second that opinion. It's an easy sell. And now they came up with a clock radio they advertise that "sounds as good as a full blown system". And of course, if something costs that much it has to be quality stuff, right?

But let's face it, Bose did help make the idea of smaller main speakers with a powered subwoofer more acceptable to the masses. I'll give 'em that much credit.

[Toka]

Yea...its no secret they don't perform well, but I don't really understand why people get all up in arms over Bose either...just don't buy them if you don't like them. They exist for a reason, its a totally different market/customer mindset...like comparing a minivan to a Mustang. A friend of mine worked for a Bose store while he was in college, and told me that at least once a week some audio dweeb would come into the store and try to start an argument over stuff like frequency response, imaging, blah blah blah. Sheesh, get a life! :rolleyes: Odd that some people who hate Bose for 'brainwashing' will go on and on about how a $5,000 mains cord improved imaging and removed a veil and all that, so I guess irony is alive and well. :D

[gmichael]

Yea...its no secret they don't perform well, but I don't really understand why people get all up in arms over Bose either...just don't buy them if you don't like them. They exist for a reason, its a totally different market/customer mindset...like comparing a minivan to a Mustang. A friend of mine worked for a Bose store while he was in college, and told me that at least once a week some audio dweeb would come into the store and try to start an argument over stuff like frequency response, imaging, blah blah blah. Sheesh, get a life! :rolleyes: Odd that some people who hate Bose for 'brainwashing' will go on and on about how a $5,000 mains cord improved imaging and removed a veil and all that, so I guess irony is alive and well. :D

The people on these boards get upset because they don't want to see their fellow posters get ripped off. Paying more to get less is not good.
People who don't care about sound and only want small speakers that can be hidden usually don't post on forums like this.

[flyv65]

Yea...its no secret they don't perform well, but I don't really understand why people get all up in arms over Bose either...just don't buy them if you don't like them. They exist for a reason, its a totally different market/customer mindset...like comparing a minivan to a Mustang.

Only in Bose's case, the mini-van (mini-cube, perhaps?) costs $40k and the person driving it will swear up and down that they turn better 0-60mph times and pull a 0.91 on the skidpad. A better comparison might be to Harley Davidson, wherein an occaisionally competent product is grossly over-priced and flys out of the showroom based on the cachet of marketing a "lifestyle". HD has a brilliant marketing strategy, and that of the folks at Bose doesn't lag far behind.

Bryan...OTOH, if you like the sound from 2.5" cubes, knock yourself out-it's your money..

[billy p]

How do BOSE and BIKES get tied into two different threads.:D

[Toka]

The people on these boards get upset because they don't want to see their fellow posters get ripped off. Paying more to get less is not good.
People who don't care about sound and only want small speakers that can be hidden usually don't post on forums like this.


Oh I agree, I don't want to see anyone get ripped off either...but I guess it depends on what someone considers a good value. I mean, if some housewife is solely concerned with size/style, it doesn't matter how much better the Axiom or whatever stuff would be, as it doesn't meet her primary need. Sure, if someone just doesn't know any better, then by all means steer them in the right direction (like this website)...but some people act personally pained by Bose being around, which is just plain odd.

[Nuglets]

Oh I agree, I don't want to see anyone get ripped off either...but I guess it depends on what someone considers a good value. I mean, if some housewife is solely concerned with size/style, it doesn't matter how much better the Axiom or whatever stuff would be, as it doesn't meet her primary need. Sure, if someone just doesn't know any better, then by all means steer them in the right direction (like this website)...but some people act personally pained by Bose being around, which is just plain odd.

I think people act "personally pained" for the exact reason Flyv65 gave. Very good mini-van comparison. It gets annoying when I talk to people who just saw an infomercial about Bose and like flyv said, absolutely swear by it's performance. That's when the people coming to the store and giving their opinions about the company come into play(which I don't do, but could see why someone would). It's one thing to advertise that it's small, cute, hidden, etc., but to start justifying the cost by it's supposed performance is just plain wrong. I mean come on...look at this http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT&product=premium_dvd_subcategory. Is that not just plain wrong?:D

The top one has a hard drive to store 340 hours instead of 200 hours, so that makes it $1000 more?

And...is there any difference in the bottom two? It isn't very clear if there is, except the extra $1000.

[EDIT]Sorry my mistake, the $1000 is for the "Award winning jewel cube speakers" which are smaller than the other choice :confused:. $4k for the top one:eek:. I'm pretty sure other companies make very small speakers that will be far less than $4k, and outperform them. As for the saved music, use iTunes with a damn 3.5mm to RCA adapter and get a really cheap PC just for music.

[spyboy]

I don't own any Bose products, however, I know people who do and like them fine. Their noise cancelling headphones are a good product. Also, Bose is a shining example of American business practices.

Bose may be the best example of ignorance is bliss. Check out this chart of brand trust among regular users:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=232506&highlight=bose

No other company even comes close to Bose.

Of the 300 million people in this country, how many are hobbiests? You can snicker, but people just love their Bose products :)

[mulester7]

.....Bose couldn't care less what is said at sites like this, pro or con, period....can you say, Bose Cube Sales Meetings in The Bahamas?.......

[wafflebird]

Laying in bed last night 11:30 or so I realized my type-o on the Hz instead of KHz. Thanks for the correction there Nuglets. Does it mean anything that this came to me in this way in bed at night, spending a little too much time here possibly.................

ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........
ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......


Thanks again and sorry for the type-o guys.:cool:

[Sheep]

I don't own any Bose products, however, I know people who do and like them fine. Their noise cancelling headphones are a good product. Also, Bose is a shining example of American business practices.

Bose may be the best example of ignorance is bliss. Check out this chart of brand trust among regular users:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=232506&highlight=bose

No other company even comes close to Bose.

Of the 300 million people in this country, how many are hobbiests? You can snicker, but people just love their Bose products :)

Blind trust is not the same as real trust. They default to that, not knowing better.

SheepStar

[caupina]

. A better comparison might be to Harley Davidson, wherein an occasionally competent product is grossly over-priced and flys out of the showroom based on the cachet of marketing a "lifestyle". HD has a brilliant marketing strategy, and that of the folks at Bose doesn't lag far behind.


Here we go again. Bose and HD, but this time I didn't get it started:D

I made the same comparison before and the point remains valid, but it all boils down to the same thing: personal preference.

[drybo]

I can say this, the bose center ch (vcs 10) is truly worthless. A door speaker out of my Taurus sounds better. I bought the bose before I knew better, and do not want to see people rpped off. I'm low income and have had to look at the bose for 4 years now. Its shape fits the tv good though.:o

[Darth Mike]

I have an old Bose/Telarc Lifestyle Music System Demo/Sampler CD, the first track is comprised of this snobby sounding guy boasting about how the bose system works without actually revealing any real information, then went through "what bose customers look for in sound" (full deep bass, rich detailed mids, open spacious sound) then went on about how you can hide everything and hook it up to your TV too (this is from before HT was popular).

Here's the track, just click "free", then wait for your Download Ticket...Blose Intro (http://rapidshare.de/files/32307317/Bose_Special_Edition_Lifestyle_Sampler_CD_-_Bose_-__Introduction_Medley.wma)

[flyv65]

Here we go again. Bose and HD, but this time I didn't get it started:D

I made the same comparison before and the point remains valid, but it all boils down to the same thing: personal preference.

I support personal preference completely: but it must be an educated preference. If the first priority is appearance (or lack thereof) and cost isn't a concern, then the Bose stuff just might fill the bill. If, on the other hand, performance is the most important criteria, then the Bose system will most likely be found lacking. As far as HD goes, well, I think they're wonderful vehicles of self-expression: but any resemblance to a "functioning" motorcycle is purely accidental. Then again, if you've purchased either Bose or an HD and think you've skipped to the front of the line for *cutting edge* technology, well, you need to get a clue (or a good solid smack to the groin.)

Bryan...prefer the CBR/XX myself, but recognize the nostalgic value of a Road King Classic...

[rtcp]

I was going to post this as a new thread in the Steam Vent, but I never did.

The man who gave me private lessons for my trumpet playing was a relatively well renowned man. He has played with many of the big names in the jazz world out there. He swore by his Bose Wave system, and always scoffed whenever I mentioned my audiophile gear, and said how his system always sounded great. It's not that he thought his gear was better, it was that he didn't think that there were significant differences in the equipment you use for musical reproduction. I don't think he's ever listened to real equipment. Anyway, I took this as being a form of exceptional negligence. How can the same man who emphasizes perfect playing of an instrument be so lax when it comes to playback? That's like saying there's only one way to produce a pitch, and the tone color doesn't matter.
Later, I had the opportunity to be conducted by a doctor who teaches at a university in the states. He always talked about attention to detail, nuance, and spent roughly half of our rehearsal time getting the precussionists to strike their instruments just right. One day after rehearsal, I asked him if he was an audiophile. He said no, but he was willing to listen to my new headphones(Grado RS-2). He at least maintained an open mind, but he also said his main listening equipment was Bose.

It's critical as a musician to develop a very comprehensive ear. Maybe playback isn't as important as being attentive while you perform, but I think the two work hand in hand to develop a good ear. Listening to other great players is critical to becoming a good musician. I don't really see the point in trying to critically listen to someone's playing if the equipment you're using isn't reproducing the performer's sound accurately. I might even go so far as to say that you aren't even listening to that artist anymore. I know from experience that Chet Baker, Miles Davis, etc. sound entirely different on Bose speakers than they sound on my Grados.

[kgb540]

It's always amusing to see people make silly comparisons such as the BOSE/HD reference. Ok, it's pretty much a given that BOSE is no good in terms of high-fi audio. Anyone who has any history with this hobby knows that. But to draw a comparo and say Harley is a Bose-type machine is just plain ignorance. Completely laughable. These "unreliable" Harley's, when taken care of properly, will be around and running long after the stink-weed crop has over-grown the dirt around your graves. Thanks in part to the way these vibration riddled, unreliable machines are designed. I know the true idiots out there will say I am not comparing bikes from the same era, but the design principal stays the same. I am just putting the finishing touches on my 1955 Panhead chopper and a friend of mine is just starting a '37 Knucklehead project. they seem to have a vibration "issue" too, dont have the benefit of modern manufacturing techinques, fuel injection or of being basically computer controlled electronically and have been know from time to time to drip a little oil but let's see................................. 1937 and this is 2006...........hmmmmmmmmmmmm................nearly 70 years old and worth a ton of cash. I also have driven a FXR for 13 trouble free years. Yeah, Harley's are a joke aren't they. Dont worry though your Honda, Yamaha, kawasaki or whatever will still most likely be around in 15 years or so too, and still really useful in something like a re-cycled return spring on a bic pen that signs the title over on another 25+ year old Harley that someone will drive and enjoy for years beyond that. But yeah, those 5 times in your life (there may be a couple a exceptions) you actually went over 130mph on your whatever, non-Harley, totally justifies the arguement. I BEG for the flames to come at me and no I am not interested in a link to this arguement done at another time. Any just to re-cap..............Bose is no good for all the reasons you guys mentioned and then some.

[caupina]

I don´t think Harleys are bad they just appeal to different people, just like Bose. Now IHMO I think they are overpriced for the kind of performance they offer, but again don´t get me wrong, that´s just my opinion, and I´m not trying to ridicule anybody for spending lots of cash when buying a Harley. I´ve been riding motorcycles for the last 15 years and to be honest with you I have never ridden a Harley so I can´t talk from personal experience. What do I look for in a bike??? Reliability, horsepower, handling and especially outstanding braking capability for the kind of riding I do and I don´t think Harleys would provide that, especially the last 3 characteristics. You may prefer Harleys for completely different reasons. The point on comparing Bose to Harleys is that both fill a niche based on personal preferences but at the same time there are people who thinks buying Bose or Harleys on any other brand for that matter is just hard to understand because you could get something a lot better with less money.

[billy p]

the last time these discussion on Bose and Harleys were held, Clint locked the thread. This time it maybe more severe?:D

[Clint DeBoer]

It's like "let's take a controversial topic and add another completely different controversial topic in via analogy".

[sahihai]

From what both sides say, it looks to be very subjective choice. Thankfully this website was educating enough to understand the importance of reading the specs, that are not furnished by b*se and that their speakers have the huge frequency gaps. That's the kind of information I was looking for. And this is definitely not to throw weight around, but rather for that one instance when someone asks you a plain question..."Yes, we ve all heard B*se sucks, but why?"

BTW, yesterday I order the New PB12-NSD. The wait begins.

[gmichael]

It's like "let's take a controversial topic and add another completely different controversial topic in via analogy".

I've been staying out of the Harley topic. My views were posted last time.

[flyv65]

It's always amusing to see people make silly comparisons such as the BOSE/HD reference. Ok, it's pretty much a given that BOSE is no good in terms of high-fi audio. Anyone who has any history with this hobby knows that. But to draw a comparo and say Harley is a Bose-type machine is just plain ignorance. Completely laughable.

Or painfully accurate, if you choose to look at their track records. Both companies charge a premium for their products; both companies eschew posting performance data on their products; and both companies produce an almost frenzied loyalty in their supporters if the Brand is threatened

These "unreliable" Harley's, when taken care of properly, will be around and running long after the stink-weed crop has over-grown the dirt around your graves.

I never said "unreliable"; I said "functional". In fact, most modern HD's are pretty dependable, having spent a good bit of time engineering themselves out of the AMF days. No the non-functional charge comes from their inability to go around a moderately tight corner without grinding down the footpegs (or, god help us, the floorboards), or accelerate faster than a Subaru Forester, or just demonstrate an ability to not slow down the flow of traffic by riding in a 25 bike formation without a parade permit.

Thanks in part to the way these vibration riddled, unreliable machines are designed.

...And in part to what they're made from, hundreds of pounds of steel. Thick. Heavy. Sometimes brittle. If I was designing rocks I could do no better than to take a page from the HD manual on the subject.

I know the true idiots out there will say I am not comparing bikes from the same era, but the design principal stays the same. I am just putting the finishing touches on my 1955 Panhead chopper and a friend of mine is just starting a '37 Knucklehead project. they seem to have a vibration "issue" too, dont have the benefit of modern manufacturing techinques, fuel injection or of being basically computer controlled electronically and have been know from time to time to drip a little oil but let's see................................. 1937 and this is 2006...........hmmmmmmmmmmmm................nearly 70 years old and worth a ton of cash.

Gee, a '69 CB750 is worth a ton of cash, too; old things frequently are...I think they're called "antiques". Wanna guess what a Brough Superior would go for from that time period? By the way-that '69 CB750 would *still* outperform most Harleys, antiques or not.

I also have driven a FXR for 13 trouble free years. Yeah, Harley's are a joke aren't they.

Only in terms of performance: they can be stunningly beatiful vehicles. They just seem to have forgotten they're supposed to be motocycles as well .

Dont worry though your Honda, Yamaha, kawasaki or whatever will still most likely be around in 15 years or so too, and still really useful in something like a re-cycled return spring on a bic pen that signs the title over on another 25+ year old Harley that someone will drive and enjoy for years beyond that.

Wow, so I guess the 22 year old V65 magna I sold last year is 7 years past due to be turned into a paperclip: I better tell the current owner/rider. This is the kind of sophmoric drivel I've come to expect from "bikers" who feel insecure about liking under-performing motorcycles. Stand up and be proud of your ability to competently spin a wrench on the old basket cases-you are basically making a roadworthy Model T (with comarable performance). In retrospect, this may be the way to get the most excitement out of motorcycling without getting arrested: 85 mph on a Harley is pretty terrifying-shoot, 75 on a Harley is pretty scary for that matter.

But yeah, those 5 times in your life (there may be a couple a exceptions) you actually went over 130mph on your whatever, non-Harley, totally justifies the arguement. I BEG for the flames to come at me and no I am not interested in a link to this arguement done at another time.

130 mph? Isn't that illegal? I can't see why would anyone want to go that fast-after all, any idiot can sit on a bike and pull the trigger on a 1300cc inline 4 or a 125 c.i. v-twin. Now corners are different; you're not going to get through a corner effectively if you don't know what you're doing, and its *more* important to know what you're doing on a cruiser, since they're so poorly designed for the task at hand.

Any just to re-cap..............Bose is no good for all the reasons you guys mentioned and then some.

Well, you're not *totally* delusional ;)

[flyv65]

It's like "let's take a controversial topic and add another completely different controversial topic in via analogy".

My apologies to all: I hadn't realized this had been done before *or* that Clint had posted on the subject prior to my response. If anyone feels the need to continue this thread, let's do so off forum, as I get the impression I've inadvertently skated onto thin ice with the Mods.

Bryan...still, it was fun while it lasted...:D

[kgb540]

OK, ok, I have to be honest here. I dont even own a bike. I was basically bored the other night and wrote that post. Sorry if I offended anyone too much. Oh, I really need to grow up some day...................just not today.:D

[Sheep]

OK, ok, I have to be honest here. I dont even own a bike. I was basically bored the other night and wrote that post. Sorry if I offended anyone too much. Oh, I really need to grow up some day...................just not today.:D

Hahahaha! Now thats taking it to the next level. PA cerfitied.

BTW, Flyv65, Every post you write is gold. :D

[flyv65]

OK, ok, I have to be honest here. I dont even own a bike. I was basically bored the other night and wrote that post. Sorry if I offended anyone too much. Oh, I really need to grow up some day...................just not today.:D

You don't own a bike?!?! Have you ever ridden one? Consider taking the MSF/ABATE class in your state-it's a great way to find out if you like riding (at the worst if you screw up you're dropping *somebody else's bike*!), and even if you don't enjoy riding, it gives you a better idea what the guy on the bike in the next lane is doing. By the way: about growing up some day? don't feel you've got to rush into that; restraint can be over-rated.

Bryan...where in S.D. are you located?

[xboxweasel]

Here's the track, just click "free", then wait for your Download Ticket...Blose Intro (http://rapidshare.de/files/32307317/Bose_Special_Edition_Lifestyle_Sampler_CD_-_Bose_-__Introduction_Medley.wma)
I listened to this and cannot find anything wrong with it. Sounds just fine to me.

[Nuglets]

I listened to this and cannot find anything wrong with it. Sounds just fine to me.

Does it give you any real information that isn't just BS marketing?

[Darth Mike]

Not that it was a poor quality track, but it's being sort of boastful... No actual info, the standard Blose runaround where they "inform you" without actually telling you anything. It's a telarxc track so I'm not questioning that, what's wrong is the blatant plugging and telling you how great thier **** is without telling you why, or giving you the option to figure it out yourself. In mass marketing of low-end BS that's fine, but for the prices the crap they sell go for they should back up all the BS with factual information.