Dented metal tweeter dome?

[ChrisJam]

Hi,

Somone recently offered to sell me a pair of used towers. Each tower has two tweeters, one of which has a titanium dome. The seller told me that one of these domes is dented, but that he could tell no difference in the sound. I never heard the speakers, so I can't say. I passed on buying the towers for other reasons.

Just so I know for future reference, would a dented metal tweeter dome scare you away from buying an otherwise good pair of used speakers?

Thanks,
Chris

[j_garcia]

Masking tape. As long as the dome is not creased, it should be perfectly fine.

[Buckeyefan 1]

What were the towers, and how much was he asking? Most titanium dome tweeters have a plastic guard, but a few are open like the Audax below. You could replace one, or even all 4 tweeters for under $80 if the deal was enticing enough.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=276-154

[ChrisJam]

The speakers are Eosone 600 towers, selling for $300. I'm attaching a photo of the dented tweeter dome.

[ChrisJam]

RSF 600:

Overall Frequency 35Hz - 22kHz
Response 40W min, 175W max 25 - 175W (8‡ rating)
Sensitivity 88dB


Driver Complement

1 x .75"(19mm) titanium dome tweeter
1 x .5"(12mm) polycarbonate tweeter
2 x 4"(100mm) midranges
2 x 8"(200mm) woofers


Crossover

front elements: 650Hz, 4.8kHz

rear elements 4.7kHz

[Rob Babcock]

The dent may not matter, hard to tell. Perhaps you could pull the dent out gently with vacuum power. Replacing the tweeter may be an option if the same one is available.

Those Eosone's aren't too bad for their class, but that's about the top price a person could ask for an 8/10 rated pair with a straight face, IMOHO. With the dented tweeter I'd pass at that price.

[ChrisJam]

Masking tape. As long as the dome is not creased, it should be perfectly fine.

When you say masking tape, do you mean the trick of using tape to pull out a dented dome? I ran into this last weekend when I bought some used Polk R15s to use as my surrounds. Sounded good, but one speaker's tweeter dome was dented. Before I bought them the fellow selling them got a piece of tape and pulled out the dent.

But I've read in various places on the web that that's OK for plastic or silk dome tweeters, but that it wouldn't work for metal.

Moreover, I've read that some people think any tweeter with a dented metal dome should be avoided. I know there's good and bad advice on the web. That's why I'm asking my question here, where I've gotten lots of good advice.

One last thing: How do you define creased? Now that you've seen a pic of this tweeter, is it creased?

Thanks.

[Buckeyefan 1]

IMHO, that tweeter needs replaced. It's not going to retain its shape if duct tape is used to pull it out. Again, it's probably less than a $20 part, but you'd need to find an exact replacement. $300 sounds high. What is/was the msrp and street price new?

[ChrisJam]

The dent may not matter, hard to tell. Perhaps you could pull the dent out gently with vacuum power. Replacing the tweeter may be an option if the same one is available.

Those Eosone's aren't too bad for their class, but that's about the top price a person could ask for an 8/10 rated pair with a straight face, IMOHO. With the dented tweeter I'd pass at that price.

Thanks, Rob. If I ever decide to get a used pair of these, what would you recommend that I pay? Let's assume they play well and look good.

I have Eosone 200 bookshelves as my mains right now, and they work well for me. I listen equally to classical music, rock music, and movies. Getting towers now would cramp my living room--it could be done--but I'll probably keep the 200s until we get a house with a bigger living room. That'd probably be in a couple years, give or take.

If I like the sound of my Eosone 200 bookshelf speakers--and I do!--and if I remember liking the sound of the 600 towers when I heard then about ten years ago, what towers would you recommend that I consider in a year or two?

FYI: I'm using Polk R15 for surrounds (just got them, used), and I just bought a Polk CS1 center, which will arrive tomorrow. I'd been considering a used Eosone center, an Infinity Primus C25 center, and the Polk. I heard the Polk and the Primus side-by-side, and it was no contest--the Polk won by a landslide. I guess I like the Polk sound, and Polk was behind the Eosone project. For about the same or less money that it would have cost me to get a used Eosone, I got the new Polk center with full warranty.

Chris

[ChrisJam]

[snip] What is/was the msrp and street price new?

MSRP was $1100. I think most paople paid much less, though, around $800-900 at Best Buy. The close-out price was $550ish. The fellow selling this pair said he paid $800.

[Rob Babcock]

Well, if you own matching bookshelves that changes the equation a bit. Obviously you like the sound of those speakers so that has to be taken into account. Eosone was a company founded by Arnie Nudell, wasn't it? They sold thru Best Buy and were pretty heavily discounted. I thought at the time that they were about the best sounding speakers BB carried, although I don't think they'd be competitive today. They aren't bad, it's just that I think a variety of factors have created the current situation where very high quality is far more affordable than it's ever been. Direct sales competitors have certainly had an effect on B&M pricing.

I'd be leery of the dent, given how large it is. But if you are able to listen to them and they sound fine...maybe. It's hard to suggest how much a pair would be worth; I'm not sure how common they are. Given their age and the amount that were probably sold, I'd say 20% to 40% of MSRP is probably reasonable. Depends on the situation. If you want 'em badly and the seller knows this, expect to pay more. If they're commonly found and the seller really needs to dump them, you'll get a better deal.

You can get a reasonable idea of their value for free by looking them up on Ebay. I'd normally suggest A-gon but you probably won't find that brand sold there.

EDIT/NOTE: No knock on the Eosones, but given their age I can't wholeheartedly recommend looking for a pair of used Eo towers. Uses speakers are a great deal, but if you're thinking of starting from scratch you might want to consider something newer. Speakers can be a very subjective thing- what I love you may hate. Still, using the opinions of others and the recommendations of this site as a starting point, you can probably find something that may satisfy you more in the long run by looking at Monitor Audio, Infinity, Axiom, Paradigm, etc. Just my $.02.

[j_garcia]

It will work on metal domes as long as there is NO CREASE, like I said before. If there is a crease, it will still work, but response WILL be affected. How much the sound is affected depends on the damage, and in some cases it may not be noticable.

I agree with Rob, if it were me, I'd probably pass on them and look for something more current.

[ChrisJam]

j_garcia, I'd still like to know, please, how you define a crease in a tweeter dome. I know the basic definition of "crease," of course. To me, any dented dome looks like it has a crease around the dented-in part. But I'm guessing that you mean something different, something more serious. If you could describe it, I'd appreciate it.

The fellow selling these speakers must have had his ears burning recently. He e-mailed me today, saying that he was desperate to sell the towers, and that he'd go down to $200. I again declined. But heck--if he contacts me again with a much lower price, I might be tempted.

Back to my original question, just so I know for future reference: Is a dent in a metal tweeter dome a definite deal killer? I know a dent in a plastic or silk dome can be popped out with tape (I've also read about the vacuum method), and if so, it's no biggie. No offense to j_garcia, who knows much more about audio equipment than I do, but since his is the only reference I've found for using this technique on a metal-domed tweeter, does this method work reliably well for a metal dome? :) Have any of you tried it?

Most of what I've read says to stay away from a dented metal dome. But, then again, that's why I'm asking here--all the good advice this group has to give.

[ChrisJam]

Rob, I like your tag line!

[Sheep]

It will work on metal domes as long as there is NO CREASE, like I said before. If there is a crease, it will still work, but response WILL be affected. How much the sound is affected depends on the damage, and in some cases it may not be noticable.

I agree with Rob, if it were me, I'd probably pass on them and look for something more current.

Dude, theres a picture, tell him if its your idea of creased.

SheepStar

[j_garcia]

You can't tell from that picture, but it looks like it would be OK. You can't tell if there is a permanent crease until you pull the dome out. If there is still a visible line on the tweeter where the dent was, it is creased. Like when you fold a paper in half, then unfold it and straighten it out, you can still see the crease.

[ChrisJam]

You can't tell from that picture, but it looks like it would be OK. You can't tell if there is a permanent crease until you pull the dome out. If there is still a visible line on the tweeter where the dent was, it is creased. Like when you fold a paper in half, then unfold it and straighten it out, you can still see the crease.

Thanks, j_garcia. I was assuming that you meant a crease when the dome was still pushed in, which confused me. As I said above, the rim around the pushed-in dent looks like a crease to me. So now I know to look at a dent that's been pulled out, and THEN seeing if there's a crease.

BTW, have you had luck pulling out a dented titanium dome? Is it as easy as it is with a plastic or silk one? Again, this is just for future reference. I'm not planning on getting the speaker in the photo.

[ChrisJam]

[snip] Eosone was a company founded by Arnie Nudell, wasn't it? [snip]

Sorry, I forgot to answer your question. Yes, Nudell was one of the founders of Eosone. He was the president of Genesis when Genesis and Polk got together to form the Eosone spin-off company.

I have an old press release that quotes Nudell saying that the Eosone line would be newly designed speakers, not ones taken off Genesis's or Polk's shelves and given a facelift. Eosone reps said that the line would be based on "design attributes spun off from the Genesis line of high-end loudspeakers."

I read from other sources that Nudell had a direct hand in the Eosone speaker design.

[j_garcia]

I purchased some demo Paradigms and I did have success pulling out one titanium dome with masking tape. It did have a small crease/line from being pushed in, but sonically, you could not tell at all.

[ChrisJam]

I purchased some demo Paradigms and I did have success pulling out one titanium dome with masking tape. It did have a small crease/line from being pushed in, but sonically, you could not tell at all.


Thanks, that's good information to have.

[Vynilforlife]

Fixing a metal dome tweeter is trivial at best.
1. Remove driver from enclosure, noting the polarity of the wires.
2. Remove the 3 screws that hold the motor assembly to the magnet.
3. Seperate the motor assembly from the magnet, it should pull apart quite easily.
4. Use a pencil eraser and gently push out the metal dome.
5. Gently replace motor assembly on magnet structure, there should be a key or notch that mates the two.
6. Reinstall driver in the cabinet.

Almost all dome type tweeters have the same type of form factor. Just be carefull not to apply too much pressure when removing the dings in the cone. If there is a crease it wont really effect the sound. These things are pretty hardy. For soft dome units, masking tape or a small pin is the best way to pull out a dent.

[ChrisJam]

Thanks, Vynilforlife!

[nobby_trussin]

Hi,

I have a couple of old wharfedale speakers and the tweeter domes have been pushed right in - much worse than the photo above. How much would this affect the sound quality?

thanks

Dan

[ChrisJam]

I can't help with your question, but I can welcome you to the site. :)

Chris