Denonlink Cable Max Length, Pinouts, Cable type?

[audiofox]

I am currently dealing with a cable length issue in my HT setup using a Panny PT-AE900u, a Denon 3806 Rx and a 3910 DVD player (with DL3 enabled). I have approximately 50 "cable feet" between the projector location and the main electronics cabinet. I have tried a 50 foot HDMI cable with no success-I get a "flashing" display, where the image comes through, but flashes at a regular rate of around 1-2 times per second. Using a shorter HDMI cable eliminates the problem, which leads me to believe that the HDMI cable length is adding too much loss for the player and PJ to handshake properly. I would like to avoid going back to the analog world and using component interconnects (especially for 50 feet), so I am wondering if I can make or buy a 50 foot Denonlink cable and move the DVD player closer to the PJ. The DL cable works fine as a LAN straight-through cable when I insert it betweeen my ethernet switch and my laptop, but using standard Cat 5 cables of various lengths (5 to 25 feet) does not work for Denonlink. Comparison of the pinouts between the DL and Enet cables show they are the same (the ones I have use the T568b wiring convention), so the only thing left apppears to be the cable type itself. Unfortunately, my DL cable is clearly marked as a Cat 5 cable, so I am stymied.

[audiofox]

UPDATE: DL apparently requires a shielded Cat 5 cable-I had one with metal sheathed RJ45 connectors, which is the only non-DL cable that will pass the DL signal between my 3910 and my 3806. Next step is to get a 75 foot shielded Cat 5 cable and see if it works. Part 3 is to plug my 3910 into my LAN ethernet switch and see what shows up on the network list. :-)

[MACCA350]

Was the Cat5 cable you tried a crossover cable? Have you tried both straight through and crossover? what about Cat6 cable?

Let us know if you get it working

cheers:)

[westcott]

Blue Jean cables guarantees there HDMI cables to 50 feet with a money back guarantee. I think they are the only company making HDMI cables in the US. All others are made in China.

[JonBaker99]

You may need an HDMI repeater. Key Digital makes a pretty good one. Also try Gefen. As far as extending your D-Link, shielded CAT5E I think is what you need. I would not plug it into your switch though. Thats a big risk for something that you know won't work.

[audiofox]

The Cat 5 cable I used was a shielded, straight thru cable, BTW, my HDMI cable is a BlueJeans. Their tech guy was surprised that it did not work, but he admitted that there have been a few cases of customers having similar problems to mine that may be related to the source component. At least two other tech suppport people I talked to told me that Denon DVD players may have a weaker HDMI signal than other manufacturers, since they have received several calls about video and/or HDCP problems over long distances when using a Denon player. As a result, I have ordered a Steren Python HDMI repeater amp to see if I can get the HDMI cable connection to work-I verified with their tech support that it amplifies the HDCP signal as well as the digital video signal (which, apparently, not all HDMI repeaters/boosters do). It was $100, which is more than 75 feet of shielded Cat 5 cable (around $18-$20), but I can keep all my electronics in one place if this works. I plan to get a long shielded Cat 5 anyway-I am curious to see if Denonlink will work over that length of interconnect. My go-forward plan is as follows:

1. HDMI repeater
2. Denonlink 75 fooot cable (requires relo of my DVD player)
3. HDMI extender (Gefen product that converts the HDMI signal and sends it thru 2 Cat 5 cables-one for video, one for HDCP)
4. Relocate electronics closer to PJ (least desirable option)

[westcott]

The Cat 5 cable I used was a shielded, straight thru cable, BTW, my HDMI cable is a BlueJeans. Their tech guy was surprised that it did not work, but he admitted that there have been a few cases of customers having similar problems to mine that may be related to the source component. At least two other tech suppport people I talked to told me that Denon DVD players may have a weaker HDMI signal than other manufacturers, since they have received several calls about video and/or HDCP problems over long distances when using a Denon player. As a result, I have ordered a Steren Python HDMI repeater amp to see if I can get the HDMI cable connection to work-I verified with their tech support that it amplifies the HDCP signal as well as the digital video signal (which, apparently, not all HDMI repeaters/boosters do). It was $100, which is more than 75 feet of shielded Cat 5 cable (around $18-$20), but I can keep all my electronics in one place if this works. I plan to get a long shielded Cat 5 anyway-I am curious to see if Denonlink will work over that length of interconnect. My go-forward plan is as follows:

1. HDMI repeater
2. Denonlink 75 fooot cable (requires relo of my DVD player)
3. HDMI extender (Gefen product that converts the HDMI signal and sends it thru 2 Cat 5 cables-one for video, one for HDCP)
4. Relocate electronics closer to PJ (least desirable option)

Thanks for the feedback. It is good to know these things from people first hand. Let us know how the repeater/amplifier solution works?

[jcPanny]

One of the SHR HDMI cables from DVI Gear might be worth a try. Their cables are certified for 1080P and the 15m lenght should be about right for your application. Their 30 day return policy should take care of any potential issues.

Also, Does the Denon link transmit audio and video or just Audio? Not sure how this would help solve your HDMI video cable problem. For audio and video in another room, 4 RG6 cables (component video + digital coax audio) should work well.

Also, you might consider comparing the perfromance of your projector with Compent video and HDMI. You may find no difference and there are plenty of component video cables that will work great at 50+ feet.

[audiofox]

Denonlink is an audio-only interconnect, but it is the only connection between my 3806 receiver and my 3910 player that I need (transmits all available formats from the 3910, including DVD-A and SACD). A Toslink i/c would not transmit SACD, only DVD-V and DVD-A. The 3910 also has Firewire, but I don't have any compatible equipment to take advantage of that interface (which would also theoretically work over that distance). If I moved the player next to the PJ, I could then theoretically use a 50 ft. shielded Cat 5 cable as the connector between the two instead of a 50 ft HDMI connector between the player and the PJ, then revert to a shorter HDMI cable that I already knw works fine. I just need to verify that the Denonlink signal won't degrade over that distance (seems very unlikely given the much smaller BW required for audio only signals), which I plan to do in the next few days with a 75 foot shielded Cat 5 cable. The downside would be that the player and receiver would now be on opposite sides of the room, but an RF remote could help with that problem. The DVIGear cable uses 22 gauge wire (the BJC cable is 24), so that might make enough of a difference. However, if the repeater works, I will have less total invested in the BJC cable AND the repeater than the cost of the DVIGear cable alone, so I am crossing my fingers. The repeater should be here by Wednesday-I'll post my results.

[jcPanny]

If the Denon DVD your only source for the PJ?
If not, than relocating the DVD player wont work. Good luck with the repeater solution. Some quality 25' HDMI cables from Blue Jeans and the repeater should work well.

[audiofox]

Yes, the 3910 is the only source I am using with the PJ at the moment. I understand that if I move the player next to the PJ, I will have the same problem as now if I want to connect another HDMI source, which is why I am hoping the repeater solution works. 25 feet is not long enough-I used all of a 50 foot cable to connect the two last weekend (which is when I discovered the problem).

[audiofox]

Well, my desired solution went down in flames-the Steren HDMI repeater had absolutely no effect at all on the handshake flashing problem, which means it is either not setting the HDCP voltage (lkely) or I have a bad cable (unlikely since the video signal looks good, albeit at a 1 Hz flash rate!). I tried it at the DVD end, the PJ end, and powered and unpowered for each scenario, but no luck. I have a call into VisualApex (where I bought the 900u), whose tech support folks I discovered have some experience with this specific problem (ie, DenonDVD/Panny 900u handshaking sync). They will be calling me tomorrow to help troubleshoot my long cable installation. I also went to the local electronics store to pick up a shielded Cat 5e cable, but they didn't have any in stock, so I'm 0 for 2 today. :-( I really want the long video cable solution to work so I can connect multiple sources and run them over a single cable to the PJ, but it remains to be seen if that is possible using HDMI. More to follow...

[B5I8]

Well, my desired solution went down in flames-the Steren HDMI repeater had absolutely no effect at all on the handshake flashing problem, which means it is either not setting the HDCP voltage (lkely) or I have a bad cable (unlikely since the video signal looks good, albeit at a 1 Hz flash rate!). I tried it at the DVD end, the PJ end, and powered and unpowered for each scenario, but no luck. I have a call into VisualApex (where I bought the 900u), whose tech support folks I discovered have some experience with this specific problem (ie, DenonDVD/Panny 900u handshaking sync). They will be calling me tomorrow to help troubleshoot my long cable installation. I also went to the local electronics store to pick up a shielded Cat 5e cable, but they didn't have any in stock, so I'm 0 for 2 today. :-( I really want the long video cable solution to work so I can connect multiple sources and run them over a single cable to the PJ, but it remains to be seen if that is possible using HDMI. More to follow...
Have you tried the Fiber Optic HDMI Cables (http://www2.dvigear.com/hdfiopca.html)?

[audiofox]

I have not tried fiber HDMI, but that is probably what I will end up using-it appears to be the only solution made specifically for long cable runs. I was trying to avoid fiber because of the cost, but I am running out of low cost options-I am reluctant to use yet another copper cable since I may end up with the same problem once again. There are other similar solutions using Cat 5e and baluns, but the cost is essentially the same as a good fiber vcable such as that offered by DVIGear.

[Clint DeBoer]

If you use one, consider DVIGear's new HDMI fiber cable with the integrated electronics. I'm reviewing it now and it blows the doors off the ones that have two huge boxes and additional cabling... It's like tubes vs. transistors all over again...

[audiofox]

Clint, have you had a chance to examine and/or test the Gefen Extreme HDMI fiber cables? They also appear to have integrated the optical transceivers into the cable (as has DVIGear) instead of using outboard electronics as with the others you mention (including the older Gefen products). I have included the URL for reference:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/cables/fiberextreme.jsp#hdmiextreme

[rocketkid]

audiofox- I am in a similar situation, however the length in between my 3910 and 3806 is shorter.....approximately 15 feet of distance between both units. Can you tell me what type/brand of Cat5 you had success. I assume that it has to be shielded because the regular Cat5 did not work, as well. I am not sure where to go or what to get....any help will be greatly appreciated.

[audiofox]

I haven't been able to find a local source for shielded, pre-terminated Cat 5 cable so far, and I don't have time to make my own right now. I plan to go to Fry's tomorrow to see if they have it, but right now all I have is my theory that shielded Cat 5 will work over longer distances. Once I get a long cable, I can then test my theory.

[rocketkid]

The manual states that the D-link cable is for both video and audio signals. It appears that it is simply a shielded twisted pair cable, therefore a shielded cat 5 cable might do the trick.

Audiofox - Did you have any luck finding the cable at Fry's?

[audiofox]

I bought a 75 foot coil of shielded Cat 6 cable with metal RJ45 connectors this afternoon at Fry's. I hooked it between my 3910 DVD player and my 3806 receiver and was able to get DL sync immediately. I have not yet done any listening tests, so I will report back when I have a bit more data. Rocketkid, I will research the video aspect of DL further, but it seems unlikely that a Cat 5 cable can carry HD video because of the BW (HDMI cable BW is 1.65 GHz, Cat 6 BW is 500 MHz, or less than 1/3 the BW of HDMI). I hope you're right and that it does-that would make my integration work much simpler. I also plan to run a few additional experiments, including connecting the 3910 to an Ethernet hub to see if I can connect one player to two receivers (I have two 3806 receivers in separate rooms).

Clint, this discovery is significant enough that you may want to sticky this thread-there is very little on the Denon Link interface on the web, and believe me, I looked for quite some time. I think as long as there is no effort to reverse engineer or hack the DL interface (or publish the results of such work), Denon will probably not have a problem with it, but I'm sure you will want to consider that aspect as well.

[rocketkid]

Glad to hear that you had success! I am off to Fry's to pick up some Cat6 and some Cat5....I am just curious to see if shielded Cat5 will work....if not, I can always return it.

I found this post on a different forum, thought it might help you...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23850&highlight=cat5

[audiofox]

My 3 foot shielded Cat 5 cable worked fine, so you will probably be okay. I couldn't find a long enough shielded Cat 5, so I got the Cat 6 for $30.

[rocketkid]

I must be doing something wrong....I could not find a shielded cat 5 cable either, but did pick up a 14 foot shielded cat 6 cable ($11.99) and could not get the cat6 to work. I changed it to D-link, in the setup, but it did not have signal going through. Any thoughts?

[audiofox]

Had you already synched up your receiver and player with the short cable that came with the player? If not, you should do that first to make certain that the interface works as expected. Also, did the shielded Cat 6 cable you bought have metal sheathed connectors instead of all-plastic ones? Finally, are both of your units on the same version of Denon link (ie, 2 vs 3)?

[rocketkid]

The problem is that I don't have the original cable that is supposed to come with the cd player. I only changed the setup settings on the AVR. Both units are D-Link3 compatible. I picked up the cable that has the metal sheated connectors and its color is white (not that it should make a difference).

Do I need to change any settings in the setup menu on the cd player?

[audiofox]

If you ahve not already done this, you need to designate Denon link as the digital interface for the player and receiver. I don't recall the specifics, but the manuals have the correct setup procedure. If you have already selected Denon link, I am at a loss as to why your interface does not work.

[rocketkid]

Aaaahhh......I think that is where I might have screwed up....I only assigned the D-link for the receiver and did not do the same for the CD player....I will do this when I get home tonight. Thanks.

[audiofox]

Rocketkid, any luck with your setup?

[rocketkid]

After you pointed out that I should also change the settings on the DVD player to d-link mode, I noticed that the current settings did not allow me to select D-link3....only option was D-link2. After some more research, I downloaded the software update from Denon's website and uploaded it to the DVD player. I was then able to change the DVD player's settings to D-link3 and the AVR to D-link3. Everything is finally working just fine with the CAT6 shielded cable. The cable only provided audio signals.

The Denon Link Cord cable can also be obtained from Denon's approved part distributors listed on Denon's website. The P/N is 2042953003 ($6.50 + s/h) and I believe is only 3' foot length.

Thanks for all the help!

[ivoimg]

I can't find anyone who sells the Denon Link cable. Can someone post the URL for a website for a place that sells it?

[rocketkid]

Just look on Denon's website under Parts/Service you should be able to inquire with several authorized parts distributors depending where you are located.