DENON,HARMAN KARDON or YAMAHA ?

kirbyevie

kirbyevie

Enthusiast
Hi! I need help on buying a new AVR for my JBL E100 (front) Wharfedale diamond 9.1 (surround) wharfedale diamond 9 center and JBL E250P subwoofer.
I like the Denon 3805 in terms of performance, harman kardon avr635 for its high current output (50 amps) and yamaha RX-V2600 for its HDMI convertion and options. I don't know what kind of receiver to buy...... I'm really confused on what to buy... your ideas, comments and suggestions are very important for me. thanks a lot guys....
by the way... my budget is around 1200 - 1400 USD.
 
3x10^8

3x10^8

Audioholic
Denon 3805: very nice receiver... Here's a review.

Harman Kardon AVR635: High Current!?!? Click here to learn more...

Yamaha RX-V2600: If you are buying this for the HDMI feature alone and you have a source with HDMI, then it's a nice feature. If you're looking at the future and don't have a source with HDMI yet, but are planning on getting one (say 1-3 years down the road), or your television is capable of accepting an HDMI signal, then don't waste your money. Use your TV's HDMI connection and avoid HDMI on your receiver. The new HDMI 1.3 standard will be coming out shortly (capable of delivering the new sound formats). There are many threads on this, as well as discussions of the above receivers. Just do a search and you'll be amazed at what you'll find (and learn). Take care and welcome to the forum! :)
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
If you buy via the net, your budget is a bit high. You came to the right place for advice. Another nice receiver is the Onkyo 803 for features. If your bound and determined to spend that much, you should be getting the HK 7300. J&R has the best pricing on HK's and is extremely reputable:

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=4020306

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3974030

http://www.ubid.com/Onkyo_TX-SR803_735W._7.1-Ch._Home_Theater_Receiver/a10692864.html

Dakmart has a B stock 1yr warranty Denon 3805 for $619 plus shipping.

http://www.dakmart.com/website/Search.asp?keyword=denon+3805

Don't buy Yamaha RXV series on line, or you'll not have a warranty.

All three units you listed are very comparable as far as power goes. Your speakers will do fine with any listed. The Onkyo is most PC/Ipod friendly, but lacks the power of the others (you'll probably never notice). The HK7300 is a beast of power and weighs as much as an elephant. Keep in mind HDMI version 1.1 is just about outdated, and version 1.3 is the way to go with receivers. It's not out yet.
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
doesnt the 2600 upscale only through HDMI? (or a better question, isnt the HDMI upscaling the feature that tips the scale for most people with this same options)
 
kirbyevie

kirbyevie

Enthusiast
Thank you for your comments and suggestions guys... It really helped me a lot. I checked the specs of HK7300 and sure it has 75 amps!!! (HCC) it is a true beast of power. I might buy that model.... but one more thing, for example I have a DVD player with HDMI output (lets say HDMI 1.3 in the future) and I have a TV which has a HDMI input.... can I connect the HDMI output of the DVD to the HDMI input of my TV directly? and the audio from my DVD to the HK7300 directly?
Thanks again for your suggestions and comments guys, I'm new to HT and I'm sure I'll have more questions tomorrow... GOD bless eveyone!
 
gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
kirbyevie said:
Thank you for your comments and suggestions guys... It really helped me a lot. I checked the specs of HK7300 and sure it has 75 amps!!! (HCC) it is a true beast of power. I might buy that model.... but one more thing, for example I have a DVD player with HDMI output (lets say HDMI 1.3 in the future) and I have a TV which has a HDMI input.... can I connect the HDMI output of the DVD to the HDMI input of my TV directly? and the audio from my DVD to the HK7300 directly?
Thanks again for your suggestions and comments guys, I'm new to HT and I'm sure I'll have more questions tomorrow... GOD bless eveyone!
75 Amps? What circuit breaker are you going to use?

In any rate. All are good choices. You would be happy with any of the above.
 
3x10^8

3x10^8

Audioholic
kirbyevie said:
Thank you for your comments and suggestions guys... It really helped me a lot. I checked the specs of HK7300 and sure it has 75 amps!!! (HCC) it is a true beast of power. I might buy that model.... but one more thing, for example I have a DVD player with HDMI output (lets say HDMI 1.3 in the future) and I have a TV which has a HDMI input.... can I connect the HDMI output of the DVD to the HDMI input of my TV directly? and the audio from my DVD to the HK7300 directly?
Thanks again for your suggestions and comments guys, I'm new to HT and I'm sure I'll have more questions tomorrow... GOD bless eveyone!
To answer your HDMI question... the answer is yes. You can connect your TV via HDMI to the DVD player and the DVD player to the receiver via optical or digital RCA.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
kirbyevie said:
Thank you for your comments and suggestions guys... It really helped me a lot. I checked the specs of HK7300 and sure it has 75 amps!!! (HCC) it is a true beast of power. I might buy that model.... but one more thing, for example I have a DVD player with HDMI output (lets say HDMI 1.3 in the future) and I have a TV which has a HDMI input.... can I connect the HDMI output of the DVD to the HDMI input of my TV directly? and the audio from my DVD to the HK7300 directly?
Thanks again for your suggestions and comments guys, I'm new to HT and I'm sure I'll have more questions tomorrow... GOD bless eveyone!
That 75 amp spec is basically meaningless. Read the link given above:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14280

You may also want to take a look at the following article:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/HighCurrentAmps.php

To save you some time, here is the conclusion:

Conclusion

From the math and what we know about the basics of how amplifier and loudspeakers perform we can now conclude that High Instantaneous Current is a non-issue and it has no application to driving contemporary and even most of the not so contemporary loudspeakers. In the past, a number of so-called simulations of what music is supposed to represent have been tried to more accurately gauge amplifier power. They have all been dismal failures due to the nature of classical/symphonic music, which has a stunning ability to throw a wrench into just about any generalization. Since many soundtracks use symphonic music this is just as important to Home Theater enthusiasts as well as classical music lovers.



It is the authors firm conviction and experience in designing, building and selling amplifiers that the watts rms into a given load, (8 ohms, 4 ohms, 2 ohms, etc., etc.) over the audio bandwidth of 20 Hz to 20 kHz, is the only accurate and representative way to measure power for this application. For those of you who prefer peak power measurements just remember this: If we multiply the watts rms figure times two we get peak power. So yes, the good old watts rms measurement is also a measure of peak watts.

It is obvious that your 75 amps measurement is an "instantaneous" sort of measurement, not something it could possibly do continuously. If you really want to know what it can output, look at RMS output, as stated in the above mentioned article.

HK is like Bose: very good at marketing BS. That, along with some serious quality control problems that they have had in the past, makes me never want to buy them. But, hey, if your goal is to support BS marketing, then you should buy them. And while you are at it, you may wish to pick up some Bose speakers, too.
 
J

JackT

Audioholic
Pyrrho said:
That 75 amp spec is basically meaningless. Read the link given above:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14280

You may also want to take a look at the following article:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/HighCurrentAmps.php

To save you some time, here is the conclusion:




It is obvious that your 75 amps measurement is an "instantaneous" sort of measurement, not something it could possibly do continuously. If you really want to know what it can output, look at RMS output, as stated in the above mentioned article.

HK is like Bose: very good at marketing BS. That, along with some serious quality control problems that they have had in the past, makes me never want to buy them. But, hey, if your goal is to support BS marketing, then you should buy them. And while you are at it, you may wish to pick up some Bose speakers, too.

I think equating HK with Bose is at best an exaggeration.
 
kirbyevie

kirbyevie

Enthusiast
Thanks a lot guys! thank you for your opinions,... I've learned a lot from this forum...very helpful.
Now I have 2 choices left.... the Yamaha RX-V2600 or the Denon 3805.
Still I don't know what to buy.... I want the Denon because of it's sound quality and performance,... and the ratings of course. But,.! I think the 3805 is 3 years old? I mean the model... I also want the yamaha because of it's THX option. and the model I think is 2005? am I right? it's new!
How important is THX by the way? sorry for the dumb question,..I'm really new to HT.

Please give me more advice...... I need only one reciever!
Denon 3805 or Yamaha RX-V2600??? just one guys! pleaaaseee!

I'm from Dubai,... people are getting crazy about home theaters here...
Thank you for your advice and opinions... GOD Bless you all.
 
jcPanny

jcPanny

Audioholic Ninja
Receiver comparision

I think that the Yamaha RX-V2600 is more comparable in features and performance to the newer Denon models, the 3806 and 2807. Both have HDMI switching and the 2807 has upconversion.

If you are not worried about HDMI, then check out last year's Yamaha RX-V2500 for <$600. Use the money you saved for a speaker, sub, or DVD player upgrade.
 
WorldLeader

WorldLeader

Full Audioholic
I have the same type of question. If I can get a HK receiver (635 for example) for as much as a lower-model Denon, which should I get? I love the look of the HK receivers, but I'm not so sure anymore that they are too good. After reading reviews lots of people liked them (HK) so I'm wondering which to get.

If they both have the same features (hypothetically) would you recommend Denon or Harman Kardon? How reputable is HK?
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
JackT said:
I think equating HK with Bose is at best an exaggeration.
They are both masters of BS marketing. And both have had quality control issues with electronics that most manufacturers seem to have no trouble making reliable (i.e., CD players and receivers).

In the case of HK, they have suckered many into imagining that 50 HK watts is equal to 100 watts of other brands, and that a receiver that isn't supposed to be hooked up to 4 ohm speakers is capable of "high current". HK is as misleading as the snake oil makers.

Frankly, I can't recall Bose as being as misleading in their advertisements as HK, so, perhaps you are right and maybe I was being unfair to Bose.
 
J

JackT

Audioholic
Pyrrho said:
They are both masters of BS marketing. And both have had quality control issues with electronics that most manufacturers seem to have no trouble making reliable (i.e., CD players and receivers).

In the case of HK, they have suckered many into imagining that 50 HK watts is equal to 100 watts of other brands, and that a receiver that isn't supposed to be hooked up to 4 ohm speakers is capable of "high current". HK is as misleading as the snake oil makers.

Frankly, I can't recall Bose as being as misleading in their advertisements as HK, so, perhaps you are right and maybe I was being unfair to Bose.
What are these quality control issues? Are you saying that HK does not enjoy a good reputation in many segments of the Audiophile community, whereas Bose is generally regarded with disdain? Don't you think YOU are being a little misleading by making this "high current" issue the end all? I think you are being over-zealous about this particular issue.

Tell us why HK amps are not good. NOTE: I am willing to accept that they are not necessarily BETTER so PLEASE don't go on about the current thing again. Are you really claiming they don't make good audio equipment? They are not as good as Denon?

Are you claiming Denon receivers are BETTER? That would be a remarkable claim, because I have yet to encounter a knowledgeable person who would say that, even those who are Denon fans.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
JackT said:
What are these quality control issues? Are you saying that HK does not enjoy a good reputation in many segments of the Audiophile community, whereas Bose is generally regarded with disdain? Don't you think YOU are being a little misleading by making this "high current" issue the end all? I think you are being over-zealous about this particular issue.

Tell us why HK amps are not good. NOTE: I am willing to accept that they are not necessarily BETTER so PLEASE don't go on about the current thing again. Are you really claiming they don't make good audio equipment? They are not as good as Denon?

Are you claiming Denon receivers are BETTER? That would be a remarkable claim, because I have yet to encounter a knowledgeable person who would say that, even those who are Denon fans.
The quality control issues to which I referred have to do with reliability, not with sound quality. If you are interested, feel free to peruse the reviews of the various items at:

http://www.audioreview.com/reviewscrx.aspx

According to many people, several HK receivers and CD players have been very unreliable.

And of course I am not saying that HK has the same reputation as Bose. My original comparison was simply to point out that both are masters of marketing BS. In that, they are alike. And they are also alike in making things that have not been as reliable as most other brands tend to be. Naturally, I am not saying that all products from either company are unreliable (as, indeed, most speakers are very reliable), but that both have had more than their share of problems. It may be that HK has solved its quality issues (it certainly should, but whether it has or not I do not know). But they do still lay on the BS marketing at least as thick as Bose. HK seems, however, to be more effective in suckering "audiophiles" than Bose with their marketing BS. So it isn't identical in every way. But they both have an affinity for false and misleading advertising.

If we were to randomly take a receiver from any time period, either a Denon or a "comparable" HK, I would rather take the Denon, as I suspect it may be more likely to continue to work. Of course, one might select one of the HK receivers that has been reliable*, and then it isn't likely to make much difference. In which case, of course, I will not be worse off for selecting the Denon.

______________

* Not all of their receivers have been unreliable; in fact, over the years, probably most have been reliable. However, they have had more unreliable ones than most manufacturers seem to have had, and more than is excusable.
 
gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
Pyrrho said:
They are both masters of BS marketing. And both have had quality control issues with electronics that most manufacturers seem to have no trouble making reliable (i.e., CD players and receivers).

In the case of HK, they have suckered many into imagining that 50 HK watts is equal to 100 watts of other brands, and that a receiver that isn't supposed to be hooked up to 4 ohm speakers is capable of "high current". HK is as misleading as the snake oil makers.

Frankly, I can't recall Bose as being as misleading in their advertisements as HK, so, perhaps you are right and maybe I was being unfair to Bose.

I'd rather have an HK than a Bose. At least HK will replace anything that doesn't work right. Sometimes even after the warranty is up. And if your replacement doesn't work, you may end up with a free upgrade. Add to that, that they sound much better to begin with and it's a no brainer. By the way, many 50 wpc HK's measure at 75 wpc or more. While some other mfg's 100 wpc receivers measure at 85 or 80 wpc. Yeah, I'd say that an HK watt is better than some. Only because they underrate theirs while others are overrating.

Bose? Nevermind.
 
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C

clthoma2

Audioholic Intern
3805 vs. 3806 vs. 2807

As much as I love the Denon AVR-3805, at your price point I would get either the Denon 3806 or the Denon 2807. Both of them offer HDMI switching and the 2807 will upscale 480i to 480p. If I was trying to save money and stay in the $550 to $750 range, then I would get the Denon 3805. Just remember that the HDMI switching thing is pretty much worthless at this point due to the problems with the Sat/Cable boxes HDMI implementation. Most likely only your DVD player will switch properly.

I would get one of these 3, Denon AVR-3806, Yamaha 2600, or the Denon AVR-2807.

Also, not to complicate the choices eveb more, but the Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV and the VSX-74TXi are both great choices with HDMI switching.

You will be happy with any of them.
 
Y

youyou

Enthusiast
HK and Bose are both great...
I have a HK AVR340 and a Bose Acoustimass 16 system and they are both outstanding... Whoever tells you differently is just biased.
My set up is in a huge basement and let me tell you that the system rocks!!!
So unless you have actually set up and tried the system in your own house then you shouldn't judge...
So many people here give advice after reading some BS article or review.
You'll always have people who have experienced bad things with all different kinds of brands.
The HK receiver look wise blows every other receiver on the market hands down. The sound that comes out of this thing is incredible. So when going with a 7300 or a 635 then you can be sure it will be even better.
As for the Bose system it sounds great!!!! Yes of course you can get many other systems that are more powerful then this and probably cheaper. But who the hell wants huge speakers all over the place in wood!!!
The look of the Bose is awesome. Tiny and super powerful and crystal clear sound. I am a huge music person and huge movie person and have over 10000 songs and 1000 dvd's and i can truly confirm that my HK AVR340 with My Bose Acoustimass 16 speaker system and my Panasonic th50px60u plasma all work flawlessly together.
Now everyone has different ears and tastes but this is just my 2cents...
And please do not listen to all the Bose and Hk bashers.
 
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mouettus

mouettus

Audioholic Chief
youyou said:
And please do not listen to all the Bose and Hk bashers. They don't know what the hell theyre talking about!!!
Right. Do not listen to the bashers. Only your ears can tell what's right or wrong. But don't tell I don't know what I'm talking about cuz my uncle works for Bose (I heard a lot of their models) and I own a pair of largespeakers and they truly sucks. Lack of everything from bass to highs. Cheap components. They once had their share of fame cuz they 'invented' powerful satellites years ago (which was nice at this time since hanging a 2-3' speaker on the wall in not convenient). But now, only dust in the wind. Only the brand name remains.

As for the HK. Yes... reliability issues. But that's what the guaranty is for isn't it? And TO MY EARS, HK sounds way better than Denon cuz it has a unique warm sound (a little too warm though). Notice that japanese producs have nice technology gadgets but they tend to "exagerate" the sound (eg: explosions). European or American products tends to have a warmer sound, which is great for music. So it all falls down to my favorite --> NAD!!
 
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