Speaker Help -- Not finding what I want, need suggestions

[AMG_Roadster]

I was hoping not to have to ask the question that everyone else asks, but no such luck.

I need help with speakers. I am looking to replace my main speakers and will worry about everything else later.

So far I have auditioned Gallo Reference 3.1's, B&W 803s, 804, 703, XT4's, Martin Logins, Klipsch Reference, Phase Techs, Sonus Fabre, and several other brands. So far nothing is hitting a grand slam. There some things I like better about the Gallo's than the B&W 803's and vice versa which are my two favorite at this time. The B&W XT4's seem to hit harder than the 803's even though they have much smaller drivers.

The 803s are the top of my price range.

Anyone have any other suggestions? I am looking for something to wow me (may be tough in my price range). I don't Def Tech, Monitor Audio, etc. are going to cut it either.

These speakers will be used for both music & home theater and must pass the WAF. Height can't be taller than about 36 inchs.

[Steve42]

Some questions to start off:
So exactly what is your entire budget? Do the front's have to be full range or can they be capable "bookshelves" (maybe very large ones, I know of some very dynamic ones that are about 33" tall)? How big is your room again? How loud will you want to play your system?

[AMG_Roadster]

Room is 18x14x9 but four openings into the rest of the house and can not be closed off.

I would have said no to bookshelf speakers before hearing the B&W XT4's. They were very impressive for the size of the drivers. I would prefer a full size full range speaker but would consider a bookshelf. Although an bookshelf requiring a stand would probably be out as once you add in the cost of the stand and speaker you can usually get a full range, floor standing speaker.

As for volume when I do like to listen to movies and music fairly loudly (at least when I can get away with it). The B&W's XT4's bottomed out the woofers in the audtion today and I would not have considered the speakers all that loud. Volume does not hit reference but probably come close.

I have had the Reference 3a Veena's recommended to me but there is no dealer nearby. http://www.reference3a.com/veena.htm

I am also now thinking about checking out KEF's speakers.

As far as budget I am really leaning towards the Earthquake MV-15 (thanks Steve). Rear's and center are not part of the equation currently. I am concentrating on the mains right now. The room is going to be reoriented with the addition of a flat panel TV. At that point the rear speakers will have to become ceiling mounted and a matching center can be purchased then or now.

[sjdgpt]

Have you heard anything that you did like?

Think of a price no object will not pass the WAF test kind of speaker that you liked. Anything that is close to meeting your expectations?

[AMG_Roadster]

I liked both the B&W's and the Gallo's but they were not grand slams. What I mean by that is that I liked them but they both had some holes. Neither one of them knocked my socks off and left me with the feeling that I had to buy them right then and there.

Out of everything I have heard the top of the line B&W Nautuils have sounded the best.

[markw]

what it doesn't do wrong.

IOW, there is no perfect speaker.

Many speakers do many things right and a few things wrong. Sometimes it comes down to which of those do the most things right and fewest things wrong.

[Tomorrow]

Mark has made a great point. All speaker designs are a system of compromises. There is no such thing as perfection. It may help if you could articulate what kind of things you didn't like about the speakers you auditioned. Perhaps we could then point you in a better direction.

Personally, I'm madly saving my pepsi bottles in order to audition/acquire a setup from ACI....based on fantastic personal (trusted) testimonials and pro reviews. Living in a rural area as I do, it's difficult to audition speakers. Sadly, buying 'sound-unheard' may be a way of life for me. Reviews and personal recommendations are about all one can use with internet-only speakers, in any event. But there is always the satisfaction-guarantee gaurantee (;)), so they can be returned, if necessary.

http://www.audioc.com/index.html

The price ranges seem to match your ballpark. Give 'em a look-see. If my Treasurer of the Mint gives me her blessing, perhaps I'll be able to give you a decent review.

Happy hunting.

[AMG_Roadster]

what it doesn't do wrong.

IOW, there is no perfect speaker.

Many speakers do many things right and a few things wrong. Sometimes it comes down to which of those do the most things right and fewest things wrong.

I agree with what you have to say. I am not necessarily trying to find the perfect speaker (even if there is one it will not be in the modest budget I have) just something that for my style of listening has different compromises or fewer. If I am going to spend the kind of money they speakers are running I would like to be more impressed than I am.

Both the B&W's and the Gallo's do very few things wrong but the do different things right. Some of the songs I sounded better on one set of speakers vs. the other. The most impressive speakers were the B&W XT4's. They blew away the more expensive B&W 703's. I was impressed about the amount of bass the small drivers put out, I liked the look, and price wise for B&W's they are tough to beat.

[mike c]

what martin logan speaker did you demo? which model?

[Duffman-OOHYEAH]

If the 803's are in your price range I would then suggest the Onix Ref 3's but they're too tall for your application. Have a look at www.av123.com something there might tickle your fancy. I know it takes a bit faith to order online without auditioning but you may be able to contact someone on their forum that's from your area for an audition. If you happen to live near Philly Pa you can swing by for a listen to my Rocket RS550's.


JR

[Daz3d&Confus3d]

Did you ever check out the KEF's? Of all the speakers I've ever auditioned....The KEF Reference 203's gave me some real WOW factor....they're alittle taller that your preference at 42", but then again compromise is the order of the day.

:)

[AMG_Roadster]

I can't remember which Martin Logans they were. They had 8" powered woofers. The other 'drivers' were electrostatic. They were a bit 'cold' and lacking in detail.

I also listened to the Vienna Acoustics 'Grand Piano' (I believe that was the model). The sounded very good but I did not have the same listening material I had been using so can't make a direct comparison.

The gallo's did an outstanding job with male vocals, they look fantastic, are very fast, very clear in the highs, never got harsh, and the 10" dual coil woofers are very nice and add a lot. They also had an incredible sound stage. My complaints are that they are missing something in the transition from the woofer to the midrange, not sure if they did not shift some of the music to a little higher frequency then they really are, and finally while they did not get harsh they did come close to being annoying at times in the highs. In addition placement too close to a read wall seriously impacted sound quality & stage.

The B&W 803's while acceptable to the wife did not have the same artistic flair of the Gallo's (impacts the wife not me). They did not seem to have the same presence as the gallo's or even the XT4's (the bass riffs hit much harder in the XT4's). The sound stage while good was not as good as the gallo's. They were a bit smoother than the Gallo's. While both speakers did a good job on the Tool CD we were using (it is a poor recording) they B&W's did a better job. There also seem to be some transitions that the B&W's could handle better.

Let me give more thoughts to the pluses & minuses to the speakers and talk with one of the guys that has listened to the speakers with me.

ACI makes some very nice stuff. I really like their Maestro Sub and would be intersted in getting one. The only issue is going to be that they probably won't make it past the WAF.

Before today I would have expressed concern over the driver selection in the Onix Reference meeting the full range sound I am looking for. After listening to the B&W XT4's I am open to smaller drivers. The Onix have two issues, 1) they are too tall and 2) they will not meet the WAF.

Now let me describe what I am looking for. This will probably end up as sounding like the attempt to build a perfect speaker but here is goes:


Not a traditional box or tower look. The B&W's pass due to the tweeter on top and the fact that the front is not a flat place (this is of course a WAF issue)
A full range speaker. The speakers should not fall on their face if the sub is removed from the mix. They should handle everything from Metalica, Beastie Boys, NERD, Tool, Chopin, Bach, Beetohven, Tchovisky, Steely Dan, Rage Against the Machine, REM, Blue Man Group to HT, e.g. King Kong, War of the Worlds, Master & Commmander, Fifth Element, Ronin, etc.
The speakers should provide a presence. You should be aware of the music. It should convey the sense of being at a concert.
Fast. The drivers should be able to keep up with the transistions/music.
There should be no 'missing' areas or the appearnce of poorly chosen crossover points.
They speakers should handle the highs well but not be overly bright. A bit more on the warm side than the bright side.


There are some other items I should list but the first time I wrote this response I suddenly received a message that I was not logged in and lost all my work.

[AMG_Roadster]

Did you ever check out the KEF's? Of all the speakers I've ever auditioned....The KEF Reference 203's gave me some real WOW factor....they're alittle taller that your preference at 42", but then again compromise is the order of the day.

:)

I have yet to check out the KEF's. I actually forgot all about them until today. They list a dealer near where I work so I am going to have to go give them a listen. Might be able to do that tomorrow.

[Steve42]

http://www.audioc.com/index.html

The price ranges seem to match your ballpark. Give 'em a look-see.
The ACI EssenceV's were actually what I was referring to earlier. They are actually about 32" tall, but will be more dynamic then you will ever need. They do need a quality sub like the MKV-15 though. You can audition them in your own room, and if you don't like them, you only need to pay the return shipping. They do not charge you for the original shipping to you. That's how confident they are in their products. Excellent warranty as well. Might be just what you are looking for. The center is excellent and has been compared to the highly acclaimed Ariel center which retails for around $3500ea. Check them out (variety of finishes as well):
http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/essencev/essencevdetail.htm

[AMG_Roadster]

I am willing to accept the cost of return shipping if I don't like them but I am afraid the EssenceV's will not make it past the WAF. I think they are going to be too 'old school' for her. Me? Last time I was shopping for speakers I really wanted a pair of the Klipsch KLF-30's. For those not familar these things come with 12 inch drivers (if I remember correctly it is actually dual 12" drivers per speaker). Never heard them but at the time they appeard to be everything I was looking for on paper. My tastes have changed some and I am having to make compromises.

As an FYI the reason for the height limitation is that there is a light switch that the speakers will block if they go any higher. I can live with this for the right speakers as they are not used all that often.

[Tomorrow]

Seems you have some major WAF issues. And I thought my wife was bad. LOL.

Have you checked here for anything of interest?....---->

http://www.swanspeaker.com/speaker/htm/index.asp?type=A

[AMG_Roadster]

WAF issues over all are not too bad. She just has two requirements 1) No 'Wood' look (black ash is acceptable but no Cherry, Maple, Walnut, etc.) and 2) Traditional box or tower speakers are going to be a tough sell. Although those two requirements certinaly are turning into a limiting factor.

I can get her to accept the Gallo's, B&W's, Mythos, Reference3a's, and many others. They should need some kind of 'flair'. Slab sided, flat angles are not really the style she wants.

I could get her to accept the Swans. I am just not familar with them at all.

[mdrew]

Sounds like you like detailed speakers if you like the B&W’s. I’ve got several sets of Axiom speakers including the M80’s. The M80’s sound very akin to the B&W 703’s and Paradigm studio 100’s (you should also give the Paradigms a listen). Axiom now offers a wide range of custom wood finishes. (you pick the wood, the stain, and the finish). You might try them. A set of the M80’s in the most expensive Rosewood piano finish are about $2300 (you can get the price on-line).

I’ve also got a set of Wharfedale Opus 2’s in a piano black finish.

I’m not sure which I prefer to listen to, the M80’s or the Opus 2’s. They are both detailed with plenty of mid range slam and more than enough low end bass. The 80’s are more forward, but I don’t want to say “more detailed”, because the Opus’s can really get your attention too. The Opus’s have a tad more low end bass and a wider sound stage due to the dome mid range. They are taller than what you want, but the Opus 1’s should fit. I haven’t heard them, so can’t comment on their sound. They have one 8” woofer, where the 2’s have two of them. The Opus 3’s have two 10” woofers. All three have the same 3” dome mid range and tweeter.

I definitely prefer the appearance of the Opus’s. If you haven’t seen them, they have a radius'ed face and sides (almost tear shaped). People always comment on how nice they look and ask “how much were those”. You know, that question folks always ask when something looks really expensive. They retail between 3K – 5K (depending on the dealer), but you can find them for under 3K if you look around enough. If you want some pics, just PM me and I’ll send you some.

[AMG_Roadster]

For the most part I liked the B&W 803's.

I did not like the 703's. They just were not smooth or detailed enough nor did they have enough presence. I had thought I might take a listen to the 600 series B&W's but after hearing the 700's I figured I would not ven bother. I actually liked the less expensive B&W XT4's better than the 703's. They just sounded better all around.

Looks wise the Wharfedale's will get by the wife. There is a distributor in my area but not sure if he is going to have anything in stock. I will have to check and give them a listen. I am hoping they don't have the same issues as the 703's.

[Tomorrow]

Here ya go, AMG. These fabulous (and non-traditional-looking for the WAF...especially if you like the Robbie-the-Robot look, lol) may be exactly what you're looking for. Act fast!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Aerial-Acoustics-10T-Speakers-With-Stands_W0QQitemZ9710118399QQcategoryZ14993QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[mdrew]

IMO, Both Axiom and the Opus are more detailed than the 703's. More mid range punch, and more bass overall. They and Paridigm 100's are just the only main stream speaker that I can think of to compare them to. The Opus line is not carried by many dealers.

good luck.

[AMG_Roadster]

Here ya go, AMG. These fabulous (and non-traditional-looking for the WAF...especially if you like the Robbie-the-Robot look, lol) may be exactly what you're looking for. Act fast!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Aerial-Acoustics-10T-Speakers-With-Stands_W0QQitemZ9710118399QQcategoryZ14993QQssPage NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Might not be a bad choice depending on how they sound. I could probably get the wife to agree to the shape although she would not like the color.

[AMG_Roadster]

Went out again today to audition some new speakers. Really wanted to check out the KEF's but the place I planned on going no longer carried them.

Listened to the ML vantage -- no presence, poor mid range. Maybe be a great speaker if they used a traditional driver for the mid range.

Polk Audio LSi series -- listened to several. Not my taste, too many holes in the speakers.

Paradigm Reference -- seemed artificial and appeared to have holes at the crossover points.

Paradigm Signature -- seemed artificial and appeared to have holes at the crossover points.

Sonus Faber Grand Piano -- Was not thrilled with the speakers, not the best stage, cross over points, or presence.

Vienna Audio Metal series -- sounded artifical.

JM Labs focal 918's -- Very natural sounding speaker, good presence, good stage, nice detail, did not seem to have any holes. Can probably get the speakers past the wife but may be a bit touch and ago. I have read very mixed review on the Focal's but these speakers are sounded great and are up at the top of my list. I plan on checking out the line above the 918's, was told they sound even better.

Still want to check out the KEF's, Revels (not sure any of them are in my price range), Veina Audio (not sure which ones), and the Opus.

If I had to make a choice today I think the Focal's are ahead overall in sound quality the Gallo's are ahead in styling. These are my current top two choices.

There are several other speakers I would love to hear but there is either not a dealer in town or the stylng will not get past the wife.

[knobturner75]

I too am going through the process of looking for new speakers. Unfortunately, I don't have near the budget you do. I do wish I could though. My problem is like someone else has already stated, I live in a small Ky town with not many highend audio sources. So, I'm going to have to go by internet direct and word of mouth. In my search I have discovered EFE Technology speakers. I found them after looking up BIC America speakers. If you don't already know, Ed Frias, of Ed Frias Enterprises, does crossover modifications on the BIC's. He also designs his own speakers. His speakers receive awesome reviews on audioreview.com as well as other places. I thought his speakers could meet some, if not all of your requirements. Here is a link for some of the reviews.

http://www.audioreview.com/SearchResultscrx.aspx?forumchoice=&s=&query=&Index=&showposts=0&searchterm=efe&section=Products

Happy hunting and good luck.

[knobturner75]

Oh yeah, BTW, I forgot to mention. There is not a website for EFE Technology. The previous link I posted, has the first pictures that I have seen of the EFE speakers. You can contact Ed by email though. He is prompt and thorough with his response. I have read, that if you contact Ed, he can send you a brochure on his speaker line. Since his speakers seem to be out of my budget, I haven't done so yet. I may just have to, and save a while longer.;)

efespeakers@commspeed.net

[knobturner75]

Another option would be, a DIY speaker. On the home page of audioholics.com, there is an area under the "Get an A/V Education", called "Try a DIY Project". There is a geat article that Ken Stein wrote about some really nice looking pyramid speakers that he built. You have to click on "Main Speaker Design". I don't know if I would be able to build such a quality speaker, but with a large budget such as yours, a third party builder could build you any design you want.

Just another idea for a route to go, to help further confuse your decision.:cool:

[rollinrocker]

[QUOTE=AMG_Roadster]
Anyone have any other suggestions? I am looking for something to wow me (may be tough in my price range). I don't Def Tech, Monitor Audio, etc. are going to cut it either.
QUOTE]


Just wondering, have you listened to def tech or monitor audio? Why are you ruling these two out? I think top line models from both companies are contenders sonically, unless you're eliminating them for visual reasons.

[shokhead]

Wharfedale 9.6 towers @1K or the Wharfedale Evolution 30 @ $1300.

[AMG_Roadster]

Thanks Knob I will check out the speakers. I have heard of BIC but not EFE.

Not sure that I want to go down the route of building my own speakers. I had considered doing it with a subwoofer but not sure that when everything is said and done that I would not just rather purchase one. I have access to all the wood building unfortunatly it is not too close by. Speakers are going to be even more complicated and time consuming and I am not sure that I would be happy with my results after the time & effort I spent.

As far as DefTechs are concerned I have not listened to them. I might give them a shot now after hearing speakers with similar sized drivers. There newer large speakers won't work in my application, too tall, and the wrap around grill is just too prone to pulling and will attarct too much dog hair. I do like the look of the Mythos have heard repeadtly that they are not very musical speakers.

The Wharfedale's are on my list.

I think the Monitor Audio's are just not going to get past the wife looks wise. I have a friend with the Silver line I may check out but...

[AMG_Roadster]

Well looks like I have found another set of speakers I want to listen to. Although I have to admit up front they are goind to be a tough sell on the wife and my room may negatively impact their sound quality.

The PSB T6's are now on the list. Too tall, too much of an 'old school' tower, implication they have to sit too far off the wall, but the price range is right and the reviews I have read are outstanding. Found a dealer near the house so I will go check them out.

Only downside is I am starting to get confused about the speakers and their plusses and minuses.

Wife is complaining about the amount of time spent audtioning speakers. As this drags out she is going to be increasingly less happy. Of course if she is unhappy now just wait till I start dragging the top couple of speakers home to audtion in the house with my equipment LOL.

[Tomorrow]

Thanks Knob I will check out the speakers. I have heard of BIC but not EFE.

Not sure that I want to go down the route of building my own speakers. I had considered doing it with a subwoofer but not sure that when everything is said and done that I would not just rather purchase one. I have access to all the wood building unfortunatly it is not too close by. Speakers are going to be even more complicated and time consuming and I am not sure that I would be happy with my results after the time & effort I spent.

As far as DefTechs are concerned I have not listened to them. I might give them a shot now after hearing speakers with similar sized drivers. There newer large speakers won't work in my application, too tall, and the wrap around grill is just too prone to pulling and will attarct too much dog hair. I do like the look of the Mythos have heard repeadtly that they are not very musical speakers.

The Wharfedale's are on my list.

I think the Monitor Audio's are just not going to get past the wife looks wise. I have a friend with the Silver line I may check out but...

Hmmm. Too tall. Too traditional. Wrong color. Will attract dog hair. Haven't heard them. Too many "holes" in them. Too flat. Too open. Not musical enough. No time to build them (even though your search seems to be taken a bundle of time and you have building equipment access {"too far away"}.) Too much this. Too little that.

With all the new caveats you are coming up with after each of our suggestions, I'm getting the feeling we're getting our legs pulled, here. Good one, AMG. ;)

You don't need our help. You need to do a reasonable internet search with your signficant other, as well as your B&M store auditions, narrow down the contenders, and go listen to them. Find reasons for and against and go with less than perfection (since the perfect speaker doesn't exist) while making that final choice (while maintaining good WAF, of course).

[AMG_Roadster]

Hmmm. Too tall. Too traditional. Wrong color. Will attract dog hair. Haven't heard them. Too many "holes" in them. Too flat. Too open. Not musical enough. No time to build them (even though your search seems to be taken a bundle of time and you have building equipment access {"too far away"}.) Too much this. Too little that.

With all the new caveats you are coming up with after each of our suggestions, I'm getting the feeling we're getting our legs pulled, here. Good one, AMG. ;)


A majority of the complaints you list are ones that I have after listening to speakers and based on suggestions people have made.

Some of other complaints you list are on speakers that I excluded from the beginning based on a number of reasons such as sound quality, the fact that they are not truly a musical speaker, etc. I just happened to list a couple more when asked why I had excluded them.

There have been several suggestions made that I have noted down that I need to go listen to.

While I initially discounted the ACI speakers due to shape I may reconsider my decision for a couple of reasons.

I am looking for suggestions here instead of simply performing an internet search due to the fact that I could spend the rest of my days looking at speakers. There are so many choices these days. There are also tons of manufacturers I have not heard of.

My hope is that someone will see my feedback on speakers that I have listened to and have what they feel is a great suggesion. In fact it has been my conversations and feedback on other speakers that led me to check out B&W and Focal. I probably would have checked out the B&W's regardless but had not thought about the focal's.

[einsteinjb]

I absolutely agree with RJ. You guys are TOUGH. Between your ears and your wife's laundry list of limitations, well I wish you luck.

Let me make one strong recommendation to you, though it's going to be a tough one: Dali. Biggest problem is they have almost no dealers in the US. I think there's only 2, both on the West Coast (no idea where you are).

My engineering Partner Mike is a sick man (in a good way). He's had B&W 600 series for a couple years, liked them a lot but was always looking for more. Bought a set of Nautilus 802s (the aluminum tweeter, not the new D diamond ones). We both REALLY liked them... But we both felt the magic wasn't really there. They sounded amazing and we couldn't find anything wrong with them but he ended up selling them after about 2 months. His new plan was to just get a set of 803s, but somehow something kept driving him to research other brands anyway. Email after email he'd send me... Hey check out this brand! What about these? How do these look?

Finally he got hooked on the Dali Helicon 800s from reading about them online. Now Mike (an excellent and highly experienced audio engineer) is one guy who NEVER buys audio products without seeing and hearing them first, but he was so taken with the look and specs of the Dalis that he took the plunge and ordered a set from a dealer in California, off of Audiogon (probably your best bet for finding a set). I told him he's a dope, he'll probably hate them.

UPS destroyed them.

However, the drivers were undamaged (just the cabinets, bases and grills were messed up) so he hooked them up while waiting for the new set to arrive... and both of us fell utterly in love. I'm serious. These Helicon 800s are MAGIC. They utterly fill the room (the sweet spot is HUGE) with the most real, amazing sound you could want. I've heard a lot of speakers in my day and I have to say I haven't heard anything that moved me more than these. Plus the finish is extraordinary. You have to see them to believe how gorgeous they are.

Now the Helicon 800 is probably way too tall for you (they're really big) but you might look into the Helicon 400 which is a smaller box and according to the reviews they sound just as amazing as the 800s. If you can find a way to hear a set or order them with some kind of money-back guarantee (doubtful, sorry to say), I seriously recommend it. I can't say enough about these speakers. Someday I WILL own a set, o yes (need a house first :o ). One caveat with the Dalis, they want space, a big room. They're not meant to be placed too close to a wall or corner, or the bass might be overemphasized. Other than that, they don't seem to be very tichy about placement or toe-in. Put them in the room and they just sound wonderful.

I own a set of the new Swan 5.2 and love them. Wonderful speakers on a $1K budget. They look amazing too, though of course the finish pales in comparison to the Dalis. As for the sound, they are WELL worth the $1k and I like them better than the B&W DM604 S3. Again the Dalis KILL them, but that's to be expected for several thousand $ more. As they're ID with a money-back, you might give them a shot. The wife might like the look with the cool tweeter on top. However you've shot down many great speakers so as much as I like the sound, I can't of course say how you'd feel about them. The mids and highs are outstanding, very smooth yet detailed, utterly non-fatiguing (that silk dome TN28 tweeter is wonderful). The only somewhat negative comment I'll make is that I found the bass and mids to be just slightly boomy and less defined and punchy than I'd like. Crossed over to a sub it's a non-issue. They do sound nice in direct (full-range) mode with enough extension for 2-channel music, but again not the absolute best bass range I've ever heard.

Regarding Ed Frias, you might give him a call. He's a GREAT guy and I would really love to hear his custom speakers. They look awesome too. He definitely knows what he's doing. Only thing about EFE, there's no returns. Once you buy, they're yours. Of course you can always sell them on audiogon and recoup your investment; he has enough of a following that that shouldn't be too much of a problem. He'll happily email you a list of customer testimonials with location and contact info so you can try to find someone in your area who will happily let you come audition them. Worth looking into, no doubt. His prices are very reasonable too.

Good luck. I think you'll need it. :)

[AMG_Roadster]

I will have to look into the Dali's. I have looked at their site before but ended up not spending very long there. They have a ton of speakers & lines. Got to be too much to check out. Although since you brought it up one of my concerns is the comment about a large room and not being placed too close to the wall. My room is probably small - average, 18x14x9 but with openings that can not be closed off into 4 other rooms. The other thing is that placement will probably have to be within 8"-1.5' of the rear wall.

I had forgotten about the swans and actually meant to check them out. Your comment about the lower frequencies being a bit muddy & boomy has me concerned. That is one of the things I really liked about the focals. No boominess, very clear detailed lows, although it sounds as if they are a bit warm for most of the reviewers.

[AndrewLyles]

AMG,
I can't remember what you're working budget was but you may want to give the new Mirage OMD line a listen if you get the chance. I don't believe that they are out yet, they should be sometime in April or early May but they look pretty sweet and from what I've read they are pretty promising. I posted the link to some pics below, I'm not sure if the prices listed there are realistic now, as the website is pretty old. There is some information listed in the boards over at the mirage site about the speakers being tri-amped with a usable frequency response from 18hz - 20Khz. Crazy talk I tell ya, crazy talk :-)

http://www.shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/avtour2005/ced_showstoppers_1.shtml

~Andrew

[mdrew]

Have you looked at Tannoys yet? I haven’t heard them, but owners speak very highly of them. They have some unique lines worth a look. One line in particular is their EYRIS iDP line. Fully interactive digital control system where the user sets them up exactly how he/she wants. Looks overly complicated to me, but as picky as you seam to be, this may be your answer. YOU get to set up everything, including crossover points. I have no idea what Tannoys run, but they don’t look cheap.

[kgb540]

I briefly looked through this post and did not see these mentioned. I would suggest the USHER 6-Series, namely the CP-6381 or CP-6391. They are stunning to look at and perform better than a speaker in their price should. Cetainly worth a look at considering some of the other suggestions offered here. Good luck!

[AMG_Roadster]

AMG,
I can't remember what you're working budget was but you may want to give the new Mirage OMD line a listen if you get the chance. I don't believe that they are out yet, they should be sometime in April or early May but they look pretty sweet and from what I've read they are pretty promising. I posted the link to some pics below, I'm not sure if the prices listed there are realistic now, as the website is pretty old. There is some information listed in the boards over at the mirage site about the speakers being tri-amped with a usable frequency response from 18hz - 20Khz. Crazy talk I tell ya, crazy talk :-)

http://www.shows.soundstagelive.com/shows/avtour2005/ced_showstoppers_1.shtml

~Andrew


Fantastic looking speakers. If they sound as good as the look they are winners.

Too bad that $3750 per speaker is a bit out of my price range. Not sure if that price will hold true or if apperciable discounts are possible.

[AMG_Roadster]

Have you looked at Tannoys yet? I haven’t heard them, but owners speak very highly of them. They have some unique lines worth a look. One line in particular is their EYRIS iDP line. Fully interactive digital control system where the user sets them up exactly how he/she wants. Looks overly complicated to me, but as picky as you seam to be, this may be your answer. YOU get to set up everything, including crossover points. I have no idea what Tannoys run, but they don’t look cheap.

Came accross the Tannoy's today online. I was trying to do some research to see what others had to say about them. Definately worth a look if I can find a dealer.

[mdrew]

Any new thoughts / review to share?

I'm anxious to see what you end up with. I don't think I've ever seen where someone has auditioned as much as you have and I'm interested to hear what you end up with, and why.

[AMG_Roadster]

Not yet. I am going to try and go listen to speakers this weekend.

At this point I have three speakers that are on my list for re-auditioning prior to making a purchase.

1) Gallo Reference 3's -- Fantastic looking speakers. The speakers while having some issues overall sounded very good. They did need some more break in time (if it truly matters) for the best quality sound.

2) Focal 918's -- Best sounding speaker I have heard up to this point. Great sound stage, great presence, sounds the most natural.

3) B&W 803S's -- They have a fantastic reputation and all the reviews are outstanding. While I was blown away the first time I think they should be given another listen.

[mdrew]

Whatchaget? Whatchaget? Whatchaget? Whatchaget? ........hu-hu!!!

[AMG_Roadster]

Well, I went out listening to speakers last weekend and it was kind of a bust.

Heard the Focal 1027be's. The sounded great but did not have the wow I was expecting. Not sure if that was due to them not being broken in (ok, lets not start the debate about breaking in speakers), the room they were in, their placement, my expectations or what. The look fantastic and I would like to hear them again. I also listened to the focal 918's again. Different room, different setup, still sound great but not as impressive as the first time I heard them.

Next I went to hear a number of other speakers. Have a little trouble finding the store. Once I do locate it I find out they are closed on the weekend.

The JM Labs Focal speakers are still the front runners. In fact I came very close to purchasing a pair of 927be's recently. Down side, they were not local and could not listen to them. Upside nice price, look great, full warranty. In the end I did not pull the trigger. First there are a couple of other speakers I would like to hear before I make a decision. Next I did some more research and felt that the 927be's were going to be a bit weak in the low end and would have to have a sub to complement them. This is not necessarily a bad thing but I need to get a sub and not sure that I want to spend the money I am looking at for speakers + sub all at one time.

I am hoping on Monday I will have time to go listen to a pair of Vienna Acoustics I want to hear.

Now initially I had stated I could not have a sub arrive at the house without replacing the speakers the wife hates (due to the look of the speakers). But I believe I have that problem solved. I have been offered a pair of Mirage floor standing speakers for free. Now I have not listened to the Mirage and heard very mixed things but you can't go wrong for that price. The plan is to pick them up. The look of the mirage should satisfy the wife. I believe she will like the look better than the current Phase Tech speakers. I will most likely order the earthquake mkv-15 sub in the next 1.5 weeks. That will push my speaker shopping back probably a month or two. On the positive note I am now ending up with enough pairs of decent (good(?) but not great) speakers. I will now have enough speakers to populate a dedicated HT in the basement and a theater (based around a flat panel TV) in the living room.

Still on my list to hear:
Vienna Acoustics
KEF
Tannoy's
PSB's
Revel
and several others.

So I am still shopping for speakers. As I audition more I will populate this thread with my opinions.

Expect to see a thread shortly on sub ex options. Everyone talks about the BFD, SMS-1, and Rane. Is there anything in between these products both performance & price wise? You can get the BFD for $100 and the SMS for $599. Is there something better than the bfd in the $250-$399 range?

[pearsall001]

I went through the same dilemna as you are in now. The only difference was the WAF. She pretty much goes along w/ whatever I like, lucky for me. I did listen to most of the speakers on your list. I really liked the B&W's & Gallo's but they just didn't grab me by the balls so to speak. One local dealer carries the Gallo's along w/ Von Schweikert, Consonance, Zu, Spendor, Polk, & a host of many others to long to mention. I spent 3 back to back weekends w/ my trusted music in hand & really listened to all of them. Then he showed me a pair of AAD 2001 Monitors from AAD Audio,(designed by the legendary Phil Jones) I never heard of them either. Well let me tell you I was floored & they literally grabed me by the ball & wouldn't let go. The owner Steve just smiled, laughed & said my reaction was typical when listening to the AAD's. Needless to say I didn't believe my ears so I had to go back again to confirm what I heard. Yup, same reaction again - I told him to write up the sale. Check out their full line at AADAUDIO.COM. The only drawback is that they don't have a lot of USA dealers. They are well known in other countries. They just came out w/ a new line the PMM I believe. Only available ib stunning piano black.

[mdrew]

AMG,
I think you need to hear the Opus line before you give up. Where are you located? The dealer I bought mine from is in NC (sound advice stereo) and carries numerous speaker lines and also has great prices. I use a sub with my two channel system, but don’t really need it with the Opus 2’s. I have it set to 45, down from 60 where I had it set with my last set of towers. They just have a lot of presence and a huge sound stage. I had some concerns with the dome tweeter and dome mid range driver thinking the tweeter would lack in detail and that the mids would be loss, but was pleasantly surprised. Plus, with the curvature of the front of the cabinet and all drivers, the need to toe the speakers to the listening position is gone. The highs are very detailed, but yet don’t feel like an ice pick getting rammed into my ear at high DB’s like some detailed speakers do. Then there’s the bass. Lot’s of it and it’s not boomy or sloppy. Heck, they even build them as matched sets with matched drivers and send you a frequency graph of each speaker and also keep one on file in case you ever have to replace a driver.

I normally don't try to push what I like on to someboby else as we all have unique tasts, but the more I read what I "think" you prefer, I have a feeling the Opus just might be for you. There's a few of us Opus owners around and keep in contact. I might be able to find one close to your location.

[AMG_Roadster]

I have heard of the Opus but have never heard them. I am located in Atlanta. mdrew if you know someone with a pair in the area let me know. I would like to go check the speakers out.

I am open to all suggestions on speakers and will certainly check out you guys have posted.

I have never heard of AAD. Just looked at their offerings on their site. Very nice looking speakers. They do not have a bad looking product. The Paino Gloss would work well for the wife. Now I need to see if I can find a dealer.

Went to try and find an AAD dealer in the Atlanta Area. Their website is of no help, there is no listing of dealers. Tried to use the 'contact' us option and they do not appear to have their flash setup correctly.

[Tomorrow]

Hey, AMG....

I think after all your auditioning and WAF waffling (WAFfling?!) and Libra "this but that" pro/con deliberations, you ought to write a book....sort of a Richard Brautigan update. Speaker Shopping In America! ;) (Trout Fishing worked pretty well for Richard.)

I ordered my ACI's this week. A review will follow. (I'll sell you the secret for making a decision on speakers for a small fee. LOL! Or you could by my old speaks for cheap. :D )

Hope you find something.

[ricocetj]

Edit: I re-read the post which I alluded to and realized pearsall001 cleared things up. Apparently, www.aadaudio.com is the real company, though aadsound.com still uses Phil Jones' name and likeness.
Jeremy

[cornelius]

AMG, I feel your pain - I listened to EVERYTHING, before I settled on my current rig. I would suggest Focus Audio FS78se or DeVore Fidelity Gibbon 8 (or even the 3). Sounds like we have somewhat the same tastes, so give them a try if you can. I heard the Focus Audios with some really nice Blue Circle gear at the HT Show in NY last year, and heard the Gibbon 3s a few days ago - and was really impressed!

[AMG_Roadster]

Those Focus Audio Master's are impressive looking speakers. I can get by with ~46" speakers but much taller than that and it is an issue. They of course have other speakers that size wise would work better. Too bad there is no dealer in town.

Devore fidelity on the other had has a dealer in the area. I will have to go check them out.

At this point I do not think I am in a huge hurry. Although the problem I am starting to run into is keeping all the speakers clear in my mind. I need to start taking notes at the store.

[TjMV3]

AMG,

I own the Wharfedale Opus 2.

I live roughly 20 minutes outside of Charlotte, North Carolina.

If you're ever in this area or plan on coming to this area, and you're interested in dropping by to listen to my Opus 2 speakers-feel free to contact me with a PM, and set a date and time.


It would be my pleasure to introduce you to the Wharfedale Opus 2:D


Hi Mike :)

[TjMV3]

Bump up for AMG

[timechaser]

AMG - I know the road you are on (WAF), been there, done that, and B&W solved my problem too (although in my case it is the M-1 bookshelfs). I heard the XT-4 speakers in my search, and they sound really really nice. Had I had the budget, the wife wouldnt have objected.

Good luck - and do let us know when/which speakers you get.

[AMG_Roadster]

I realized in a pervious post I said I was blown away by the 803S's. That was a mis-statement. I was not blown away by the 803's. In general I was rather disappointed with the B&W's. I just did not feel like they lived up to their reputation/price tag.

TjMV3 thanks for the invite. If I am in the area or can get away for enough time to give them a good listen I will let you know.

I did end up with a pair of speakers yesterday. I got a pair of Mirage 7MSi's. Bit anticlimatic for you? Don't worry these are not the speakers I am shopping for. I was offered the speakers at too good of a price to pass up. This weekend I am going to try and do some back to back listening and compare them to my current Phase Techs. The real plan for these speakers is that they will go in the basement in a dedicated HT.

Now away from the side show and back to the main ring.

This weekend I am off to audition some more speakers. Based on a recommendation here I am going to go give the DeVore's a listen. I will give the Gobbon Super 8's a listen and probably the Silverback References.

The shop also carries Avalon Acoustics and Von Schweikert. I am going to try and check out these speakers also. The place I am going to actually demo's the speakers out of the owners house so I am not sure homw many speakers I am going to be able to work through. I will let you guys know what I think.

If anyone has any comments on the Von Schweikert's or Avalons please let me know. Also if you have any suggestions on other speakers to listen to I am open.

[Diapason]

Phew!

I'm new to the forum so have just got through reading this topic. I was going to suggest listening to some PMCs (http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com) cos I think they sound great (especially if you have an amp with any kind of grunt). Unfortunately, they're probably not going to meet the WAF criteria since they're all pretty much ugly square wooden boxes. The exception is the Active AML1 which I've heard great things about...

Si

[AMG_Roadster]

Heard two new speakers tonight.

First up were the DeVore Silverbacks. I decided to pass on listening to these speakers. These speakers retail for $15k which is a bit out of my speaker price range (could have gotten them for a better price but not sure if it would have been enough to matter). Not to mention they were probably on the large size for the wife. If I had had more time probably would have listened to them.

The first speakers I listened to were DeVore Gibbon 8's. They were smaller than I expected. They just continue in the line of speakers that are highly regarded but just do not meet what I am looking for. They just did not have the presence I like in a speaker. They also seemed to shift from the midrange to the tweeters too soon. They were fairly laid back speakers.

Next up were the Von Schweikert Vr4jr's. Fantastic looking speaker. Loved the shape, size, and apparent build quality. They had great presence and put out a surprising amount of bass for 2 6" drivers. If I did not know better I would have sworn a sub woofer was running. They had strong, tight bass. I am not sure if it was the way they were hooked up or the speaker themselves but they had some odd transitions. They would go at times seem to get too bright. Like the electronics in the cross overs got confused on what to send where.

So it is two more speakers lines that are down and only a couple hundred more to go through.

On another note I did get a pair of Mirage MSi-7's hooked up this weekend. Have not given them much of a listen but my initial impression is that they have a surprising amount of bass but seem to be lacking a bit in the mids. I was offered these speakers at a price I could not refuse. They are not too take the place of the main speakers I have been shopping for.

[HK_M3]

I enjoyed reading your posts! I myself am currently on the same journey....I am not impressed with B&W having listened all the way up and down their speaker line.......I had a chance to do some direct comparisons to some Revel speakers...

I will say now that The Revel F12's (Only $1300 for the floorstanding pair) are some -incredible- sounding speakers. They aren't really robust on the lower bass extension but they do everything else.

They do an incredible job of dissapearing....very natural...-especially- in comparison to the B&W's...makes them sound -way- to bright...

Let me know how the search goes...

-Nate

[Fastnbulbous]

I feel like I read a book and was robbed of the ending! So did you find what you want? Or did your wife kick you out of the house? ;)

There were some nice recommendations and descriptions here. I added a few to my poll (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28258) that covers pretty much a similar range, but had trouble finding any pricing for the AAD and Devore. Also, it seems the previously mentioned models of AAD and Focals were discontinued in the past eight months, as I couldn't find them on the manufacturers' sites.

AAD Silver-7, $?
Devore Fidelity Gibbon 8, $?
Salk Veracity QW, $2,999
Focal-JM Labs Electra 926, $2,700
Boston Acoustics VR-M90, $2,700
KEF Reference 203, $2,600
Gallo Nucleus Reference 3.1, $2,600