Difficult speaker selection. Where are the experts?

[df4801]

Need some help from the experts.
Trying to help my good friend with his first HT.

He has a difficult room and even more difficult demands. So I already told him that the setup will not be ideal, but trying to do the best possible.

Room over 7500 sq ft! (approx 25x22 with 14ft ceilings) And OPEN on 3 sides to boot!. There are arches with open areas on the front and back "walls", so no place to put in wall speakers.
His demand is that all speakers NOT be seen. Therefore, we talked about a cabinet under the screen. The cabinet would be about 6ft across and 30" high.(can not be any wider, maybe a few inches taller if need be). But would have to house L/C/R and 1 or 2 subs.
I found some small subs, but am looking for a center and bookshelves on the sides. Thought about axiom vp150 and the M22's.
But can they even fill that room?
Any better choices? Fortunately, his budget is flexible, so if something would be much better, then he can afford it.

The back surrounds would be in ceiling. (and, yes, I already told him that at 14' high, not an ideal situation)

Thanks.

[Sheep]

As a start, I would look at things with THX ultra certification. These will be able to put out the dB's.

Example: The Klipsch ultra system or M&K units.

Its hard to fill a room that size, esp. with bass, and I don't think Deftechs will have the output in the low end.

As far as subs go, your friend is going to have to make some compromises.

SheepStar

[Duffman-OOHYEAH]

Instead of trying to hide the speakers, why not make them the focal point of the room? How about speakers that look like beautiful pieces of funiture like Rockets by Onix www.av123.com or some cool artful creations from anthony gallo at http://www.roundsound.com.

I love my rockets:cool: and everyone that steps into my room gasps and states "THOSE ARE GORGEOUS!!"

2929

JR

[df4801]

I tried multiple times to "educate" him on speakers and how they would sound in such a large room. But all for nothing. I at least got him to NOT put the L/C/R all in the 14' ceiling.
He is dead set on room "look" first, and to him, that means NO visible speakers.
He is willing to sacrifice on sound quality. Luckily, this is his first HT, so hopefully something marginal to most of the members here will sound great to him.
I am just trying to help him best I can, as I can't fathom letting him go with the custom installer who qouted him $50K for a setup!

Any other suggestions on a center and bookshelves that would be better than the axioms? Or for his room, would any bookshelve/ center combo that is smaller all be about the same. That is, crappy. LOL

Sheep,
do you think the klipsch RB-35 or -75 pair and a RC-7 would be a better combo for the L/C/R?

[scotty11]

RBH Sound CinemaSITE

if budgets not an issue

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/RBHSoundCinemaSITEreview1.php

[df4801]

scotty,
I actually already mentioned that to him, but it was too wide for his setup. The cabinet has to fit between 2 arches because he doesnt want to cover them up. So he can only have a cabinet just slightly wider than a 110" screen. The cabinet will only be under the screen.

For anyone who likes that CinemaSITE, I actually used that picture to tell a cabinet guy what I like, and he made me an almost identicle cabinet system. But I put in some paradigm speakers and it was a fraction of the cost.

[Sheep]

Sheep,
do you think the klipsch RB-35 or -75 pair and a RC-7 would be a better combo for the L/C/R?

I was thinking more along the lines of this...
http://www.klipsch.com/media/Photos/THXsystem_large.jpg

If he wants to do this right, he needs to really take the time and research the sound hes after, and the budget. We NEED a budget or else we are up in the air with suggestions.

SheepStar

[df4801]

Thanks sheep,
But I think those will be too big.

He'd be willing to spend up to $3k for the L/C/R speakers.
But size is the first concern, even over sound quality. Go figure.
I just wonder that in a small bookshelf size, is there any benefit to uping his budget?

[Tomorrow]

Small. Lovely. Room filling. Quality.

Ask and ye shall receive. Be sure to check out their testimonials and reviews, too. I'm looking at a set of ACI's for my equally large room.

http://www.audioc.com/index.html

Take an especially long look at the Sapphire XL's. Happy hunting.

[mazersteven]

Thanks sheep,
But I think those will be too big.

He'd be willing to spend up to $3k for the L/C/R speakers.
But size is the first concern, even over sound quality. Go figure.
I just wonder that in a small bookshelf size, is there any benefit to uping his budget?

How about a total in-ceiling set up? Has he, or you thought of that. I'm very happy with my in-ceiling system. I went with Speakercraft AIM8 Five's. They are a very good speaker, but I'm sure there are many others to choose from. My L/C/R AIM8 Five speakers ran $2300. So he would be under budget leaving him cash for Sound Enclosures for the speakers. My room is bigger then his, and like his has openings everywhere too. Plus he will not be able to see the speakers with the ceiling grills, so that fits a requirement. Something to look into. Here is the web-site for Speakercraft.

www.speakercraft.com

My system can be viewed on my Webshots link. :D :D :D

[Sheep]

Thanks sheep,
But I think those will be too big.

He'd be willing to spend up to $3k for the L/C/R speakers.
But size is the first concern, even over sound quality. Go figure.
I just wonder that in a small bookshelf size, is there any benefit to uping his budget?
Well, the fronts can go in cabinets, and so can the subs. The only speakers in the room will be the surrounds, and they will be on the wall.

SheepStar
PS- that system is about 10 grand.

[Buckeyefan 1]

In a large room that size, I'd suggest looking at what Swan has to offer. Check out the 3.2, 5.1, and 6.1's. HiVi makes some of the best drivers in the PE catalog, and also saves consumers a bunch of money by producing their own internet direct speakers - not to mention their outstanding looks!

http://www.swanspeaker.com/speaker/htm/index.asp?type=A

[jaxvon]

I would look for high-quality inwall speakers that can be built into the custom cabinet. I think both RBH and Def. Tech have some good options. Check out the following:

http://www.definitivetech.com/loudspeakers/inwall_/inwall_inceiling_.html#uiwrls2
http://rbhsound.com/si770.shtml

Also, if you're making a custom cabinet, maybe you could use the elements from the CinemaSite and just make it not as wide:
http://rbhsound.com/si6100.shtml

As for subwoofers, I would look at models from Velodyne. Their HGS-X and DD series are sealed, front firing designs that would work well for the application if properly isolated from the cabinet.

if you wanted ultimate sound from the stuff listed above, use the SI-6100s as L/R, an SI-760 or SI-6100 for center duty, and one or two DD-15s for LFE.

Granted, I have not heard the stuff above, but judging from all the reviews and specs, I don't think you could be disappointed.

[df4801]

Thanks guys!
I knew you'd have some good ideas.

But it would be a lot easier if I could place the speakers on the sides of the screen.

[jaxvon]

Are you saying that on-wall speakers are acceptable? In that case, check out the offerings from Def Tech again, as well stuff from Leon Speakers (www.leonspeakers.com) (can be custom matched to the furniture or any plasma TV) and Artcoustic (http://www.artcoustic.com/).

[Mike Dzurko]

There is no reason that LCRs mounted in a cabinet can't sound quite good . . . but they MUST be designed for it. I don't know if I'm picturing this cabinet correctly, but what about three 20" wide or three 28" wide speakers? We've done this a number of times, mounting them under screens. Our Protege or Essence are designed for just this purpose.

http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/custom/protegec.htm

In this particular cabinet three Proteges are installed above the screen.

Triad is another high quality option.

[3db]

PSB makes some of the best in-wall and in-cabinet speakers out there. take a look;

http://www.psbspeakers.com/product.php?pId=42&sId=13

[Steve42]

I'd have to say definately advise him on some speakers that are designed to be installed in a cabinet. Most likely this would mean sealed speakers. Triad and ACI makes some quality stuff.

Just found this quote from a customer on ACI's site who seems happy with them: http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/protege/protegedetail.htm

Definately isolate whatever speakers he puts in his cabinet, rubber feet, etc. And no rear firing ports whatever you do. That leaves out the Axioms.
Again, sealed speakers would be preferred, and ones that have a crossover designed to deal with boundry compensation. Which, btw, I believe the ACI Proteges do. Check with ACI to be sure.

Steve

[df4801]

Just looked at the ACI products.
Those protege's look good, but a couple questions.
The sensitivity is 86db and they are 6 ohms.
Can I assume that means they need a lot of power and likely a separate amp?
Isnt a higher sensitivity better?

[Steve42]

Just looked at the ACI products.
Those protege's look good, but a couple questions.
The sensitivity is 86db and they are 6 ohms.
Can I assume that means they need a lot of power and likely a separate amp?
Isnt a higher sensitivity better?
I have seen Mike Dzurko say that because the impedance never drops below 4 ohms they are very easy to drive. I've also read some posts on other forums from owners confiming that they are very easy to drive with decent receivers.

[craigsub]

Steve is right, For fun, I hooked up Our ACI Essence Package to a 7 year old, 55 WPC NAD receiver ... and no problems at all in our 4500 cubic foot room.

ACI makes a wonderful product.

[Mike Dzurko]

Steve is right, For fun, I hooked up Our ACI Essence Package to a 7 year old, 55 WPC NAD receiver ... and no problems at all in our 4500 cubic foot room.

ACI makes a wonderful product.

Thanks Craig, and you do a great job testing them . . . now if you DO figure out women . . . heck, that is even tougher than figuring out subs! :D

[jaxvon]

Don't neglect PSB either, they actually make speakers specifically for in-cabinet installations.

http://www.psbspeakers.com/series.php?sId=13

[Sheep]

Don't neglect PSB either, they actually make speakers specifically for in-cabinet installations.

http://www.psbspeakers.com/series.php?sId=13

Yar, a mighty fine post.

SheepYarr

[Steve42]

Don't neglect PSB either, they actually make speakers specifically for in-cabinet installations.

http://www.psbspeakers.com/series.php?sId=13
Those look really cool, but the lowest price ones cost $1249 each (CHS 40). Still I have always liked the "PSB sound". Used to own a pair a Image 4T's way back when.

With a budget around 3K for the LCR the CHS 40's are about at that limit. With that big room it would seem he'd be better off looking at least at the CHS 60 which would by the looks of the specs be much more dynamic and fill that room better. At $1749 each the OP's friend would have to up his budget a little. But hey nothing's for free! ;)

If he really wanted to go "balls out" that CHS 80 looks sweeeet! $2500 ea though... ouch! :eek:
What the hell though, it's not my money. :)

[jaxvon]

Hah. I forgot to price check before I posted the link. Still, they might be the way to go.

[Xsound]

They have incredible speakers, and almost unlimited options. The speakers are built after you place the order. In-wall, on-wall, in-room. In room speakers come in custom finishes, even colors taken from paint swatches. Pretty efficient as well, so should handle the room size.

Enjoy,
X

[Steve42]

They have incredible speakers, and almost unlimited options. The speakers are built after you place the order. In-wall, on-wall, in-room. In room speakers come in custom finishes, even colors taken from paint swatches. Pretty efficient as well, so should handle the room size.

Enjoy,
X
Triad does make great speakers, but if they have to be "made to order", they probably can't be returned if the buyer does not like them. That's kind of a bummer. I wonder if the buyer could try the custom PSB's without having to buy them first (dealer who will allow a in home demo). That's one of the things about having a 30 day trial that's cool. For the risk of some shipping charges from ID, you can try them in your own home first to see if they are for you or not. :)