What happened to 7.1 in the new DVD formats

[Spiffyfast]

Am I missing something, or weren't we supposed to get 7.1 discrete audio with these new dvd's coming out. I checked out the Toshiba and the Sony and as far as I can tell they only have 5.1 analog outputs not 7.1. What the heck is going on, or am I just way off base here?

[Jack Hammer]

Am I missing something, or weren't we supposed to get 7.1 discrete audio with these new dvd's coming out. I checked out the Toshiba and the Sony and as far as I can tell they only have 5.1 analog outputs not 7.1. What the heck is going on, or am I just way off base here?
Good question, so far I believe the only way to use anything above 5.1 is with either a digital optical or digital coax connection. I haven't heard of any movies having yet been released in 7.1, and only a limited number in 6.1.

[Spiffyfast]

Good question, so far I believe the only way to use anything above 5.1 is with either a digital optical or digital coax connection. I haven't heard of any movies having yet been released in 7.1, and only a limited number in 6.1.

I had heard that we would have 7.1, but you would have to run it from the analog outputs just like dvd-a b/c current receivers don't have the built in codecs to decode anything that high

[djoxygen]

I haven't seen anything definitive about the capabilities of any particular machine, but HDMI can carry up to 7.1 channels of discreet, uncompressed audio. It will, of course, be up to the software creators to decided how much of that capability to use. And up to the receiver and pre/pro manufacturers to determine what their products are capable of receiving.

I would expect that, if the player is capable of playing back DVD-A or SACD that it would be no worse than the current situation - 5.1 analog, or compressed digital.

[mtrycrafts]

Am I missing something, or weren't we supposed to get 7.1 discrete audio with these new dvd's coming out. I checked out the Toshiba and the Sony and as far as I can tell they only have 5.1 analog outputs not 7.1. What the heck is going on, or am I just way off base here?


7.1 is just a modification of 6.1 with 2 rear channels being mono. I don't see a need for a stereo rear channel on top of the two back there now. Later, perhaps there will be overhead channels and elevated front channels too.

There is a link somewhere on this board to Dolby's explanation of the new MLP Dolby Digital something or other that is part of HD-DVD. Interesting stuff with expansion capability built in.

Here you go, I found that link:

http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf//tech_library/TrueHD_FAQ_10925_Final.pdf

[djoxygen]

7.1 is just a modification of 6.1 with 2 rear channels being mono.

Any current 7.1 systems are implemented that way. But there hasn't been any unified method to deliver a discreet set of 7.1 channels before HDMI. On a related (and not insignificant) topic, the DCI (Digital Cinema Initiative) spec allows for well past 8 discreet channels. As more theaters are built or retro-fitted as DCI-compliant, and more home theater systems have the capability for 7.1, movie producers/engineers will have the incentive to do their original audio mixes in 7.1 instead of the 5.1 or *maybe* 6.1 that they're doing now.

We now have the hope that HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray content producers will start re-mixing and mastering the audio from catalog movies, but it's a better bet that we'll see new blockbusters in 7.1 starting with this summer's line-up.

There have been many experiments with 3-dimensional arrays and speaker systems with dozens of individual channels. Because of the shape of our ears, though, we can only do a great job of localizing height in the front hemisphere, especially if one removes the environment from the equation. Much of our rear localization comes from the timing of reflections off other objects near us.

The only reliable way to do true 360-degree localization is with binaural recording and headphones. I'll probably eat these words in 10 or 15 years, but I don't think we'll ever get past 10.2 channels/speakers in the most high-end of high-end HT systems. I believe it is more likely that engineers will play around with, and try to establish as standards, other virtualization techniques with 5.1 and 7.1 systems.

[mtrycrafts]

Unless the studios have more than the 5.1 or 6.1 masters, it will be difficult to convert to good 7.1 or more. New movies will be easy. I doubt they will redo all of the old ones. A monumental task for the 1000s of movies.

[djoxygen]

Unless the studios have more than the 5.1 or 6.1 masters, it will be difficult to convert to good 7.1 or more.

Some will and some won't. Think of all the old records that have been re-mixed for DVD-A and SACD. Or all the movies that were originally mixed for mono or stereo that have been re-mixed for 5.1

New movies will be easy. I doubt they will redo all of the old ones. A monumental task for the 1000s of movies.

Of course not *all*. Some will and some won't. I'd be shocked if, when sales of Lord of the Rings DVDs fall below a certain level, Jackson doesn't revisit them for some "ultimate gonzo collectible power of reunited hobbits" edition for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Same goes for Lucas and Star Wars. Zardoz, on the other hand...

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Well obviosuly if they included every possible decoding and connection option on their first new players, then you won't need to buy a new player in another few years. (owners of Non-DTS outputting LaserDisk and S-video only DVD players know what I'm talking about).