DVD upconvert, thru HDMI only? Not component?

[jkenas]

Hey there,

This is my first post, yesterday was my first day of getting reaquainted in the world of HT (My Sony STR-DA333ES gets a protector fault so I am in the bus for a new reciever as well.

My question: I have a Sony 40" XBR picture tube TV that has DVI and component inputs. I am looking at purchasing the Sony STR-DA3100ES receiever to replace my dead one, but there are no HDMI or DVI inputs/outputs, only component.

I want to get an upconvert DVD player to achieve 720p/1080i near quality out of my DVD collection, but the Toshiba, Sony, and other models I looked at all say upconvert through HDMI port. So am I to understand that unless the signal is coming from the DVD player's HDMI port the signal is NOT upconverted? Why isn't the signal upconverted on the component outputs (480p to 720p at least). Why would Sony not have HDMI inputs on ANY of their receivers (except the outragous STR-da7100 model) to allow switching, but then force the use of the upconvert to the HDMI port?

How about this Oppo DVD player from the previous thread, do you have to use the DVI connection to achieve the upconverted pic quality? Why do they make it so hard to switch between sources using a receiever. maybe the the problem is Sony and I should get that new yamaha or try to win it. TY for any assistance

Jeff
"The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from"

[HiJon89]

Upconverting is only allowed through HDMI or DVI because component does not support HDCP. You could always just get a Samsung DVD-HD841, DVD-HD850, or DVD-HD950. All of these upconvert over DVI/HDMI, but through a sequence of buttons on the remote can be modified to upconvert over component as well.

[jkenas]

If my Motorola Comcast box can deliver an HD signal to my TV over component then why can't a DVD player send an up converted HD signal thru component?

I apologize if this sounds naive, but I don't understand specifically what you mean when you say component doesn't support HDCP.

What is the highest signal that can be carried over component? It has to be more than 480p right? Am I right with the chart below?

Component= 480i, 480p, 720p, 10801?
HDMI/DVI = 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i
rev ?? HDMI 1080p

Thanks for any help...
Jeff

[GlocksRock]

My roommate has a Mitsumi DVD player that will upconvert over component, and it looks pretty good too.

[HiJon89]

If my Motorola Comcast box can deliver an HD signal to my TV over component then why can't a DVD player send an up converted HD signal thru component?

I apologize if this sounds naive, but I don't understand specifically what you mean when you say component doesn't support HDCP.

What is the highest signal that can be carried over component? It has to be more than 480p right? Am I right with the chart below?

Component= 480i, 480p, 720p, 10801?
HDMI/DVI = 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i
rev ?? HDMI 1080p

Thanks for any help...
Jeff
The problem is not with the bandwidth of component, its more than enough to carry 1080i. The problem is that the MPAA won't allow DVD player companies to make DVD players that upconvert over connections that don't support copy protection (HDCP).

[djoxygen]

There are other players from manufacturers you may not have heard of (like NeoDigits) that upconvert all the way to 1080p over their component outputs.

[jcsprankle]

So it's not a technical reason why DVD players (most of them, anyway) don't up-convert to their component outputs...it's a political position made by the MPAA...is that it?

Does this only apply to DVD players? I know of several TVs that will accept 1080p signals on their component inputs (the HP MD6580n is an example) and if nothing can output a HD signal on a component output, what's the point of accepting those signals?

[HiJon89]

So it's not a technical reason why DVD players (most of them, anyway) don't up-convert to their component outputs...it's a political position made by the MPAA...is that it?
Basically, most companies just don't enable the feature because they don't want heat from the MPAA. Some DVD Players, like many of the Samsungs, actually fully support the feature, but have it disabled by default.
Does this only apply to DVD players?
For the most part, yes.
I know of several TVs that will accept 1080p signals on their component inputs (the HP MD6580n is an example) and if nothing can output a HD signal on a component output, what's the point of accepting those signals?
Most HD Cable Boxes output 720p and/or 1080i over component.

[jkenas]

This forum is great. Hijon, what you said is absolutely correct. I confirmed this myself tonight when I brought home an LG up-convert DVD player (display from circuit city so I don't feel guilty taking it back). This LG says right in the manual that it WILL upconvert to 1080i on both the component and HDMI connections, BUT...

there is a *note in the manual that says "if the DVD is copy protected the signal will only output to 480p on the component connection". I got into a bit of an argument with the CC salesman who tried to convince me that they were refferring to new Blue-ray HD disks, but it seems the manual (and I are correct)

This LG has a front panel button that allows you to choose the res from 480i all the way to 1080i, when I toggle through these my Sony XBR TV will "blip" as the sifnal is modified from the DVD, but alas, the signal stays the same from 480p thru 1080i when playing a store bought DVD. If I put a backed up DVD I created using DVDshrink where the macromedia or other copy protection has been removed...whala..the resolution changes and man does it ever look good! The problem of course is that this only looks great IF DVD shink didn't have to compress the video to fit onto a 4.7 disk. If it did, and I try to up convert I get jumped stillframes of the video.

Solution: I back up my entire DVD collection onto new dual layered disks removing the protection ...(not likely) or buy a suggested DVD player that I can enable the upconvert on component. Where did you find the codes to enable this feature on the various Samsung models?

If I am able to get some good suggestions on a specific model and means to enable this, am I going to run into problems running this to a receiver first before it reaches my TV (want to do this for switching purposes and will be able to without buy a $1000 + receiever with HDMI inputs). I worry the receiever will not pass through the up converted signal through the component input/outputs.

Any thoughts from anyone is greatly appreciated, and thanks for the responses thus far....

[jcsprankle]

I'm not sure about this but I don't think the receiver cares about copy protection on it's component inputs and outputs. If the receiver just switches (doesn't up-convert) and it's compatible with the up-converted resolution from the DVD player (i.e. 720p or 1080i), it should pass the signals in the same resolution as it was input.

Let's assume you have a video switching receiver that is capable of passing 1080i signals. You input a 1080i signal from the up-converting DVD player over component and configure it to output video signals via component. The receiver should pass those signals with no problems.

[Reorx]

This LG has a front panel button that allows you to choose the res from 480i all the way to 1080i, when I toggle through these my Sony XBR TV will "blip" as the sifnal is modified from the DVD, but alas, the signal stays the same from 480p thru 1080i when playing a store bought DVD. If I put a backed up DVD I created using DVDshrink where the macromedia or other copy protection has been removed...whala..the resolution changes and man does it ever look good! The problem of course is that this only looks great IF DVD shink didn't have to compress the video to fit onto a 4.7 disk. If it did, and I try to up convert I get jumped stillframes of the video.

Solution: I back up my entire DVD collection onto new dual layered disks removing the protection ...(not likely) or buy a suggested DVD player that I can enable the upconvert on component. Where did you find the codes to enable this feature on the various Samsung models?....
Gotta love DVDshrink. :)
I have a dual layer burner, and have tried using it for movies as well. The problem I ran into is that my dvd player's dont support DL+R/RW, and DL-R is finally just coming out. Though cost like $5/disk (hard to accept when HD/Blue Ray is just around the corner).
You can go here (http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers) to see what dvdplayers are compatible with the different various formats.

Have fun.

Reorx

[HiJon89]

Where did you find the codes to enable this feature on the various Samsung models?
Just google the model # + "region free code"

[eFenska]

Just google the model # + "region free code"

I'm looking for the same thing for my Samsung DVD-HD860, Google did not turn anything up...

[jonnythan]

FWIW, I use my PC as my DVD player, and it upconverts them to 720p and outputs them via component. No problem.

HDCP has nothing to do with DVD's.

[Max997]

from what I understand in order to upconvert you need to run through the HDMI

but you can play the new HD DVDs through component on HD DVD players and get the HD signal you just wont be able to upconvert standard DVDs

I was really worried about this because my projector doesnt have HDMI ( or DVI ) inputs so I have to use Component. Only for a couple more months though, I am getting a new Projector sometime this summer

[BMXTRIX]

jkenas - Why not use the DVI connection? This potentially may improve signal quality that much more for your display. You don't need your A/V receiver to have the video go through it BEFORE going to the display, your receiver doesn't add something cool to the display before passing it on, so just send the video right on to your display via HDMI/DVI. Then, for audio, use the digital outputs from the DVD player. A player like the Panasonic S97 will do a killer job with that process.

Yes, there are players like the Oppo (new ones?) or NeuNeo that can upconvert over component as well. Not sure of their quality vs. the Panasonic though, so you will want to keep that in mind.

The biggest headache in all of this is that HDMI still isn't standard on every single TV that is sold today. So, how long before we finally get to a point where people can just walk into a store and go "I need a video cable for my DVD player" and a sales person hands them a HDMI cable right away. Sigh - Many years out still I expect.

[ironlung]

Why all the hoop-deee-dooo about upscaling? A DVD is 480p maximum. I could take my 480p DVD signal, upscale it to 1920bazilliontrillion x 1080bazilliontrillion send it to my 1080bazilliontrillion display and it's not any more "HD like" than watching 480p over component on a progressive SD display.

[jrfuda]

I know we all try to get every drop of performance out of what we have, but I don't know how much difference you're going to see - at normal viewing distances - on a 40" CRT set going from 480p (with 480i source material, of course) to 720p or 1080i.

If I put a backed up DVD I created using DVDshrink where the macromedia or other copy protection has been removed...whala..the resolution changes and man does it ever look good! The problem of course is that this only looks great IF DVD shink didn't have to compress the video to fit onto a 4.7 disk. If it did, and I try to up convert I get jumped stillframes of the video.

Judging by this statement, however, it appears that it did make a visual difference to you.. Was that at your normal viewing distance or up close? Also, was it really better or just different? When your TV goes from an NTSC signal to an ATSC signal, it may just be switching its colot decoder to the other color matrix, making the picture look different without actually increaseing its quality. Of course, if you think it looks better, then it does, regardless of what we say (and if I saw it myself I may agree).

[Max997]

Why all the hoop-deee-dooo about upscaling? A DVD is 480p maximum. I could take my 480p DVD signal, upscale it to 1920bazilliontrillion x 1080bazilliontrillion send it to my 1080bazilliontrillion display and it's not any more "HD like" than watching 480p over component on a progressive SD display.


Friend of mine has the Denon 5910 and his picture is amazing so whether you believe in upscaling or not, the picture is a lot better

I have the 2910 and connected it to my TV using the component and DVI connections ( DVI upscales component does not ) and you could def see a difference. Could be just that DVI is better then component or that it is actually upscaling, either way the picture is a lot better...just wish my projector had DVI input

[JeffD2.]

Why all the hoop-deee-dooo about upscaling? A DVD is 480p maximum. I could take my 480p DVD signal, upscale it to 1920bazilliontrillion x 1080bazilliontrillion send it to my 1080bazilliontrillion display and it's not any more "HD like" than watching 480p over component on a progressive SD display.
Upconverting DVD player was a waste of money in my particular case. If you spend $1800 on a display that has 1080i native res or even less, your DVD signal is upconverted ALREADY. Your display will almost always do a better job at upconverting than <$300 player.

There are also numerous hacks around the internet to pass more than 480p over component. Just look for them.

I conducted a blind viewing test here.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7024868&&#post7024868

[ironlung]

Friend of mine has the Denon 5910 and his picture is amazing so whether you believe in upscaling or not, the picture is a lot better

I have the 2910 and connected it to my TV using the component and DVI connections ( DVI upscales component does not ) and you could def see a difference. Could be just that DVI is better then component or that it is actually upscaling, either way the picture is a lot better...just wish my projector had DVI input

I might agree that 480p can look different depending on the player. Unless the 5910 makes stuff up there is no more info in the 480p image over 1080i connection or just a 480p connection. It will be no contest versus a 1080i uncompressed signal.

If you pass 64 bit MP3 over HDMI, firewire, 5.1 analog, dennon link upconverted to the highest bitrate and sample frequency full digital glory from the finest universal player(like the 5910) does it sound just like DVD-A/SACD?

If the data is not there it's just not there.

[mfabien]

Same applies to the Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player, the Upconvert of SD DVD requires the use of its HDMI output.

[Max997]

The signal coming from my HD DVD player through component to my projector is in fact 1080i so I am getting the HD signal with my component connection. Obviously it would look even better using HDMI but component doesnt look bad

just wanted to lety everyone know because there is a lot of confusion out there about this. I know what is stated in the specs of the player but I also read at some point that they changed that and the HD signal was going to be available throough component as well

[jcsprankle]

The signal coming from my HD DVD player through component to my projector is in fact 1080i so I am getting the HD signal with my component connection. Obviously it would look even better using HDMI but component doesnt look bad

If the signal is 1080i, why would it look better from HDMI than it does from component...the signal is the same resolution?? Would it have something to do with HDMI being a digital connect and component is analog?

[MrDigitronic]

Do agrre with the above statement
:)

[Max997]

If the signal is 1080i, why would it look better from HDMI than it does from component...the signal is the same resolution?? Would it have something to do with HDMI being a digital connect and component is analog?


its a better way to connect, just like going from component to DVI

my TV has a DVI input but when I first got HDTV the cable boxes didnt have a DVI out so I used component. When the new boxes came out I used the DVI connections and the picture was def better, not dramticially better but noticable