What speakers for restaurant/bar use?

[Deathwish238]

I need to find speakers to use to go in a restaurant/bar. I was thinking $50 per speaker should be good enough to find decent sounding speakers. Any recommendations? I was thinking some JBLs as they are a common sight in restaurants and have a sound that appeals to most everyone. Perhaps Athena? I'm not quite sure.

As of now I believe I will be using a Yamaha RX-V2600 receiver if anyone has any comments about it at all.

Thanks in advance.

[markw]

How many speakers are you planning to employ? You might be better served with multiple smaller speakers.

Remember, these environments are not the same as home use. People near the speakers nmay get blasted out while diners further away might hear nothing.

While loud music in a bar might be doable, assuming the clientele is up for it (and if they are drunk they generally don't mind) but most people come to a restaurant to eat and converse as the main thrust of their visit, not to be entertained by listening to music. The music should enhance the dining experience, not dominate it.

[Deathwish238]

ahh sorry I should have been more specific. We're looking at around 20 small speakers all cieling mounted. Definately don't want huge speakers!

[Buckeyefan 1]

For that many speakers, check out the Bic DV62si. You can get a pair just over $120 shipped, and they put out excellent bass for their small size - which is especially important if they'll be mounted near the ceiling. You won't come near the bass with inwalls, especially at that price.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006JPDI/ref=sr_11_1/104-6421034-2769519?%5Fencoding=UTF8

[Deathwish238]

cool thanks for the info...haven't heard of them but people seem to like them from reviews

[jaxvon]

I wouldn't use the RX-V2600 for your speakers. It's too much processor for your needs. You need impedance matching volume control and a few amps. Add a decent stereo receiver, CD changer, and Satellite Radio receiver and you're set. As for the ceiling speakers, check out the offerings from Sonance as well as the In-Ceiling offerings from BIC (M-SR6).

http://www.bicamerica.com/IN%20WALL%20PAGE~.htm

http://sonance.com/

In fact, Sonance sells everything that you'd need to set up your restaurant for sound besides a source.

[markw]

... I think you would be better off forgoing the consumer electronics and looking into commercial sound products. Systems that use that many speakers usually use a "70 volt" system for driving multiple speakers.

You really won't be playing at high levels so the standards you apply for home audio are not quite the same in this situation.

[Deathwish238]

Okay well here's the whole situation:

I need to be able to control the volume level to three zones independently. Two of the zones need to be able to play from the same source at once. The speakers aren't going in the ceiling rather they're being mounted to pillars and walls through out the restaurant and bar. I don't know what brands to look at

I don't have a concrete price range...I'm just trying to see how much it'll run me. I'm thinking no more than $2k for the receiver and $100-$150 per pair of speakers. I will need about 20 speakers...probably a bit less. This is a restaurant and during the weekend the sports bar gets quite loud. The third zone is the patio area where live music plays about once every one to two weeks...but they usually have their own speakers so that's not too big of a concern.

[zumbo]

Check this out: http://audiophileliquidator.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=1&products_id=170&osCsid=28e7b232a2bdc643a46b8da8900ab476

[Deathwish238]

Check this out: http://audiophileliquidator.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=1&products_id=170&osCsid=28e7b232a2bdc643a46b8da8900ab476

lol I was looking at the model above it. Check my first post.

[zumbo]

lol I was looking at the model above it. Check my first post.

That is a 2500 for $699

Look again: http://audiophileliquidator.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=1&products_id=170&osCsid=28e7b232a2bdc643a46b8da8900ab476

[Deathwish238]

That is a 2500 for $699

I can't tell if it has 3 zones? Also someone recommended I look at commercial equipment and was lost in that respect

[zumbo]

I can't tell if it has 3 zones?

It does. Page 78. Here is the manual: http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/manuals/PDFs/RX_V2500.pdf

[Deathwish238]

It seems like the biggest difference between the 2500 and 2600 is that the 2600 has HDMI upconversion...which I won't need.

btw, does the MB Quart logo for your avatar have any significance or are you just a fan?

[zumbo]

btw, does the MB Quart logo for your avatar have any significance or are you just a fan?

http://photobucket.com/albums/f174/zumbo02/?sc=5

[Deathwish238]

http://photobucket.com/albums/f174/zumbo02/?sc=5

nice nice. How old is it? Did you get it before MBQuart was bought by RF?

[Buckeyefan 1]

That is a 2500 for $699

Look again: http://audiophileliquidator.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=1&products_id=170&osCsid=28e7b232a2bdc643a46b8da8900ab476

http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=10591333

30 day warranty - but you've got $220 to repair it should something happen. Authorized reseller for Yamaha (one of the few online). Great, great receiver.

Zumbo, cool characterature - very pretty wife (or girlfriend???)
Thanks for the pics - nice system BTW. 1st I've seen it.

[zumbo]

http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=10591333

30 day warranty - but you've got $220 to repair it should something happen. Authorized reseller for Yamaha (one of the few online). Great, great receiver.
Ouch!:eek: Whatakillerprice!:D

Zumbo, cool characterature - very pretty wife (or girlfriend???)
Thanks for the pics - nice system BTW. 1st I've seen it.

Thanks. That would be the wife. I am a very lucky guy.

[Deathwish238]

I would rather buy it new. Money isn't that much of an issue.

[johndoe]

I don't have the knowledge nor experience of most people in this forum, but I was once at a restaurant where they had this tweaked amp or receiver that took the frequencies that interfere with most human voices to a very low level. The effect was quite nice, the music was playing somewhat louder than in the typical restaurant, with the difference that you could actually hear and understand what everybody at the table was saying. I don't have any information on the product I just mentioned, but since some of you guys seem to be pros at this I figured you might be interested. My apologies if this is the most obvious thing.

[dae3dae3]

You should really consider going someplace where they specialize in pro-audio applications. They may have totally different options available that most people aren't even aware of. They will also have knowledge of setting up large numbers of speakers like you are considering. The one chain store that I know of is Guitar Center but I there must be a local place if you don't have one of those. They will sell pro amps that can handle low impedance loads that you are likely to produce by daisy-chaining speakers together. They will also have some more options available in speakers that are more rugged for professional use.

Just try to look for the guy who looks like he isn't in high school. :) It may be hit or miss but if you find a good guy they will probably know exactly what you need.

[Gatorchong]

Having some experience with purchasing commercial audio equipment for one of the businesses I have worked for I would recommend spending your money on commercial audio gear, especially the amps. They tend to last much longer with constant use than even the high quality consumer stuff. (i.e. denon) Unless you're planning to sell the business down the road I would spend the money on stuff you won't have to replace or repair too often. If you're going to have one of the rooms at consant high volume I would go with some speakers made for commercial use as well. With low volume ambience type music you can save the money, but in your sports bar area I would spend a little more on speakers that are designed to be played loud for long periods.

[zumbo]

nice nice. How old is it? Did you get it before MBQuart was bought by RF?

They were owned by Rockford Corp. at the time. The speakers are stamped "Handmade In Germany". The MB Quart company remained it's own identity and manufacturing remained as it was. I have owned many MB Quart systems in car audio, and these have the same sound characteristic. Maxxsonics now owns them, and claims the product will remain top-quality and continue to be manufactured in Obrigheim Germany at the MB Quart plant. http://www.maxxsonics.com/ They also plan to take advantage of the plant to help improve the quality of their products as well. Who knows?:confused: I am just glad I got mine when I did.:D

You said "it", so I wanted to be clear. I have four of these:
http://photobucket.com/albums/f174/zumbo02/?action=view&current=MBQ830.jpg

And one of these:
http://photobucket.com/albums/f174/zumbo02/?action=view&current=MBQ330ctr.jpg

[Deathwish238]

You should really consider going someplace where they specialize in pro-audio applications. They may have totally different options available that most people aren't even aware of. They will also have knowledge of setting up large numbers of speakers like you are considering. The one chain store that I know of is Guitar Center but I there must be a local place if you don't have one of those. They will sell pro amps that can handle low impedance loads that you are likely to produce by daisy-chaining speakers together. They will also have some more options available in speakers that are more rugged for professional use.

Just try to look for the guy who looks like he isn't in high school. :) It may be hit or miss but if you find a good guy they will probably know exactly what you need.

There are many Guitar Centers around here...I didn't even think about them. I will check them out thank you.

Having some experience with purchasing commercial audio equipment for one of the businesses I have worked for I would recommend spending your money on commercial audio gear, especially the amps. They tend to last much longer with constant use than even the high quality consumer stuff. (i.e. denon) Unless you're planning to sell the business down the road I would spend the money on stuff you won't have to replace or repair too often. If you're going to have one of the rooms at consant high volume I would go with some speakers made for commercial use as well. With low volume ambience type music you can save the money, but in your sports bar area I would spend a little more on speakers that are designed to be played loud for long periods.

The business is brand new and I plan to keep it for a long long time so reliabillity is definately very important. In the sports bar area...the speakers will still be playing background music and not sound from the TVs as there are several.

They were owned by Rockford Corp. at the time. The speakers are stamped "Handmade In Germany". The MB Quart company remained it's own identity and manufacturing remained as it was. I have owned many MB Quart systems in car audio, and these have the same sound characteristic. Maxxsonics now owns them, and claims the product will remain top-quality and continue to be manufactured in Obrigheim Germany at the MB Quart plant. http://www.maxxsonics.com/ They also plan to take advantage of the plant to help improve the quality of their products as well. Who knows?:confused: I am just glad I got mine when I did.:D

That's good to hear that they sound as good when owned by RF as they did before. I got lucky and bought a set of speakers right before they were bought by RF. I'm honestly rather doubtful if their quality will remain the same ax maxxsonics doesn't own the best brands(their best being HiFonics).

[zumbo]

That's good to hear that they sound as good when owned by RF as they did before. I got lucky and bought a set of speakers right before they were bought by RF. I'm honestly rather doubtful if their quality will remain the same ax maxxsonics doesn't own the best brands(their best being HiFonics).

You mean, their best being MB Quart!:D

At the time I purchased my system, Rockford also owned NHT. My sub is a NHT SW-12. It looks as though they no longer own NHT either.

[bigpapa]

For brand, try Bogen, Crown, or QSC amps. This is definetly a 70v mono application. All three make 70V amps for your application.

I use 70v JBL's for BGM applications. These kinds of speakers aren't very expensive, and yes, I many of them to evenly disperse the sound. More speakers at lower volume work really well. You can fill the room with sound, yet not drown out people talking to each other.

Despite what some may say, the sound quality can be very good if designed right. But, you won't get any imaging. I don't know if I'd want that anyway, it's above my head:rolleyes:

Many commercial amps come with integrated cards for inputs, and some come with output cards... taking care of your zone volume needs.

For basic BGM use, you need at least 10W a speaker. If you want to host a Super Bowl and play it on every TV, you'd probably want to pipe it to your speakers too;) Just make sure you feed some audio to your amp. I'd think 30w a speaker would be more than loud enough to sound good above a loud crowd, yet enable people to still have a conversation through the noise. It's not a nightclub system, but more than enough power to do what you want.

Good luck brah.:cool:

[Deathwish238]

Wow thanks for the help. I found a few amps that look like they'll work. Okay so I have an amp...say either the Bogen M-Class or Black Max Series. But what do I do for inputs? I need to be able to have atleast two inputs and three independent zone outputs. Any ideas? This is brand new to me.

[bigpapa]

Wow thanks for the help. I found a few amps that look like they'll work. Okay so I have an amp...say either the Bogen M-Class or Black Max Series. But what do I do for inputs? I need to be able to have atleast two inputs and three independent zone outputs. Any ideas? This is brand new to me.

I'm thinking Vector series for you, but with two smaller Vectors for your other zones. The M-Class might be a little bigger than you need, but I'm not a commercial engineer.

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking that you'll have the main amp/mixer with some input cards (you can go up to 8 with Vector series, you'll have two... buy 3, you'll change your mind later and add something).

No need to play separate audio in your other zones, so you'll just need a summing output card from the main unit. I'd likely get some smaller amps for your two other zones, big enough to match the power output of the larger amp/zone relative to the amount of speakers in the zone.

You might want to get some real engineering consultation here. Compile the following data;

1. Cubic volume of the space of each zone, how many speakers you intend to use in each zone

2. How high the speakers will likely be above the listeners

3. Your requirements; BGM music in a restaraunt to a football crowd watching TV, or whatever variation you decide.

4. Input cards and output cards

That's really it. If you want or need to use noise cancellation or filtration, hire a consultant to help engineer. I think you can get by without it though.

Have you found someone to sell this stuff to you? The distributor will likely have a design/sales staff available to help you. This shouldn't be more than a 1/2 hour phone call for D/E and cost analysis, especially if you have the info I mentioned.

Good luck brah.:cool:

[bigpapa]

Run some balanced audio cables (twisted pair 22gauge minimum, with shield) out to where any live musicians may play... plug em in to your sound system so everyone can hear it. If they use any mixing gear, it should have a summed audio output at their board for piping out.;)