Newbie help on whole house audio system

Hi all,

<Sorry for the length of the post>

I recently purchased a house that has an integrated audio system (speakers in several rooms). Problem is that there was no documentation left behind by prior owner and I am having difficulties getting it to work (simply playing a CD on all speakers in the house). Basically, in the living room there are several audio "connections" that I can see. There are four groups each one having two connections. Groups are labeled RR, RL, FR, FL. I assume these control surround sound speakers if you want to hook up your own and NOT the ceiling mounted speakers. In addition to those groups, there are two short wires coming out (regular audio plug). I tried connecting those to the line out on my amp but no sound. Btw, there are volume control nobs in each room. I called the builder who told me that one of those wires are for the "whole house audio" but requires a reciever to have a "Zone 2" input. From what I can tell you only need this type of reciever if you want to play different audio in different rooms. My reciever does not have Zone 2 and I really dont care about playing different music in different rooms (at least for now). Is it not possible to use my current reciever or do I really need a new one with "Zone 2" support? My reciever is a pretty average (perhaps even low end reciever) that I bought as a sorround sound bundle with reciever + speakers.

I've been trying to solve this puzzle for a while now but keep getting stuck.

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

Speaker connections.

I think you are on the right track.
First I the labeled speaker connections correspond to the following on wall or in ceiling surround speakers: Front Right, Front Left, Rear Right (surround Right) and Rear Left (surround left).

For the whole house audio, you will need a decent amp to drive all the speakers in your house. Take the power of the amp / number of pairs of speakers to determine the power that will be delivered to each pair.

Here are a couple of options for your current receiver:

1. Connect house speakers to the "SPEAKER B" connection if available. Do not run speaker B AND speaker A at the same time.
2. Connect the TAPE OUT on the receiver to a 2 channel audiosource amp ($100). Connect the amp to the house speakers.
3. Buy a multizone receiver that can run a 5.1 system and zone 2 speakers like the Yamaha RX-V2500 or 1500 ($5-700)

Good luck.

Thanks!

Between options (2) and (3) is there audio quality difference? I'm leaning towards (2) simply because it kind of fits my budget the best

Cheers!

Whole house audio

Both options 2 and 3 will sound great for 4 pairs of speakers in the house. If you are trying to run 8-10 rooms, then you will need to go with option 2 and a more powerful and expensive amp.

Keep in mind that in addition to powering the zone 2, option 3 will also improve the power and performance of your 5.1 HT in the main room.

VERY IMPORTANT:

Impedence matching!

Speakers draw a certain amout of power and when you put more and more speakers together they will (litterally) suck the life out of a amplifier if you don't control the power flow. It is possible, that the volume controllers in the room have this technology, called impedence matching, built into them. But, perhaps not. To find out, you will need to pull one of the volume controls out of the wall and see exactly what brand/make/model it is and then either ask, or go to the manufacturer website and read the specifications.

If it is not impedence matching, you will need to pick up a impedence matching speaker selector. They are about 30 bucks or so online to handle up to 4 pairs of speakers off a single amp. They also have versions to handle more pairs of speakers if you need it. You didn't say how many rooms have speakers though.

So, here's how I would do it on a budget.

amp (with speaker selector): http://cgi.ebay.com/Sonance-Sonamp-260-and-SS6-6-Speaker-Selector_W0QQitemZ5843744314QQcategoryZ39783QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If you can get that for under 150 that's really solid.

Search eBay for Sonance Amplifiers which are designed from the ground up for distributed audio.

Speaker selector - either Sonance, or a Hometech speaker selector will work well.

1. Connect the tape out (record out) from your A/V receiver to a decent external power amp.

2. From the power amp, go into the speaker selector.

3. From the speaker selector, tie in all the rooms with speakers in them.

When you pick a source on the A/V receiver, that source will go out to all the rooms, but because you have the speaker selector right there, you can turn those rooms on and off individually - very nice. Plus, the external amp means that the house system won't affect your primary system at all.

Impedence matching.

Since the system was installed by a professional, wired with a single pair of speaker connections for all rooms, and he was instructed to directly connect a Zone 2 receiver, I would assure that impedence matching volume controls are in use and the jumpers set correctly.
However, it would not hurt to check the installers work and verify that the jumpers on each VC are set correctly.

Since he does not have a different pair of speaker wires for each room, he cannot use a speaker selector box.

Thanks both for the answers! Its amazing how much you learn from (what I thought ) was a simple hook-up. So, basically, at this point I borrowed a really nice receiver to just try out the system and make sure it works. Its an Yahama HTR-5890 which supports Zone 2 and 3. From what the installer had told me earlier, one of the cords coming out from the wall was a "whole house system" connection that I needed to hook up to the amp. The other cord was for the sub woofer I was told. Now, I'm no expert but it seems that you need red/white (i.e. two cords) for audio. Appearantly he said that the one connection was all I needed and to plug it into Zone 2 on the amp. Still, Zone 2 on the amp wants red/white connection. Nedless to say, it didnt work. I enabled Zone 2 via setup, turned it on but nothing. I had my DVD player connected to the amp playing a CD (via DVD input). I've attached pictures for how it looks at the main connection point.

left: This is the cord that is supposed to drive all the speakers in the house. I hooked this up to Zone 2 (but on the amp it wants red/white and I only have one).

right: This is supposedly the one that controls sub woofer

overall: shows both of them together with the surround sound connections. They do work as I've hooked them up to the amp.

Thanks again for all the help!

Cheers!

Ooops

It looks like you are hooking up the whole house speakers to the line out for zone 2. Those terminals on the wall are meant to be connected to an amplifier not line level outputs.

The first thing you should do is verify you can just get the speakers to work. Make a connection between the amplifier speakers terminals and the screw down connectors on the wall. Play some audio and see which speakers make sound. You should hook up one black and red speaker terminal pair on the receiver to a black and red connection pair on the wall plate.

The subwoofer conection is usually low level and takes the rca plug from the receiver. The amp in this case is built into the subwoofer. The sub then connects to some small wires or rca plug at the other end.

After you get speaker connections figured out oon the wall, you will need to figure out how to configure your amplifier to output an amplified zone 2 output at the speaker terminals. Usually there are assignable amps in the receiver that can be used to do just this.

Post back your results on trying the speaker connections.

Zone 2 connection

You have an unusual connection for zone 2. How many wires are going to the zone 2 RCA connector. If it is stereo, you will need at least 3 wires for Left, Right, and Ground and you will need an adapter to plug into the receiver left and right RCA connections. Are there 2 speakers in each room, or just a single mono speakers? Also, if there is an amp somwhere for all the zone 2 speakers then you need to verify that it is powered ON. It probably has a switch somewhere.

"Groups are labeled RR, RL, FR, FL. I assume these control surround sound speakers if you want to hook up your own and NOT the ceiling mounted speakers."

I am gambling that your assumption is incorrect, I believe these will be used to supply a signal to the built-in speakers in your HT room from the main amp. RR = Rear Right, FL=Front Left etc...

The subwoofer cable makes sense too. Low line level output from the receiver to a remote mounted and self amplified subwoofer.

The other RCA cable, I don't know. Perhaps it's either an IR extender from the VCs down to the main amp, or controls a remote relay to activate something like a remote amp, or a relay to switch between HT speakers and whole house speakers.

Where are all you ceiling speakers located ? In the room setup for in wall surround ? If not, it could be just a stock face plate was used on the wall.

Thanks again for the help. So, basically here is the layout of the speakers in the house:

Kitchen: 2
Dining area: 2
Living room: 2
Guest bath 1: 1
Guest bath 2: 1
Master bath: 2
Garage: 2
Master: 2
Guest 1: 2
Guest 2: 2

I've attached a pic of the "whole house" connector. Basically it has 4 wires (black, red, green and yellow). Only the black and red are actually connected. The rest are just cut. Not even sure what the greena and yellow are for.

I havent been able to find an amp anywhere. I know the location probably differs from house to house but where would it typically be located? There were a couple of wall switches that didnt seem to have a function so I tried those thinking it will turn something on but no luck.

I have successfully hooked up sorround sound via the screw down connectors so that seems to be working.

When I configured the new amp I basically enabled Zone 2 (amp power on), switched to Zone 2, turned the ZOne 2 amp on and choose the CD input, but nothing happened. Then again, the "whole house" connector (as in the pic) is just one and not two as the amp requires (red and black).

Thanks!

Take off the wall plate

Take the wall plate for the speaker connections off and look at how many wires are connected to each binding post. It should come off as easily as a wall switch.

Typically, they will hook up a couple of speaker pairs in parallel to each speaker connection at a wall plate. So for example, one set of red+black on the wall plate might run the kitchen+dining room. In that case each binding post gets two wires.

That "whole house" conection is a mystery. Is there a little red window on the volume controls where an IR signal might be received ?

Amps can be placed anywhere. Has anyone said something that makes you think there is an amp installed elsewhere in the house ? Typically, you would find them in an odd shaped closet such as under stairs, or in the basement, or just taking up space in a larger closet.

I just noticed you said you got the surround speakers working. Are those the "2 living room" you have listed, or are there also fronts installed in the wall ? Are there anymore open screw down connectors on the wall plate after getting the surround speakers to work ?

PS.. That's a lot of speakers for that one wall plate connection block. I do suspect there's more wires or amp like you are thinking burried somewhere.

Zone 2

This does not make sence. To get stereo sound, you will need 2 RCA connectors and 4 wires connected from the receiver to the amplifier. From my count, you have 9 pairs of speakers, which requires some major amplification. There are 18 speaker wires that go to the amp and a central location somewhere in the basement, a closet, or attic crawl space.

Ask the installer if there is an amp, where it is located, how to turn it on, and how to connect it to a stereo line output from a receiver. You paid good money for your whole house system so he should be accomidating.

Keep in mind when testing zone 2 that your receiver may have a seperate volume level for Zone 2.
Also, there are probably volume controls in each room that you should turn all the way up for testing.

Good Luck.

Thanks for the responses.

jcPanny - I will call the installer again and see if he knows where the amp may be.

Eric - I've attached some pictures with the plate off. No red window on the volume controls. The surround sound connections are the ones that I was talking about earlier and shown in the pics that I've attached.

Thanks all!

Looks like the right most connection block has at least a couple of speakers run in parallel to each terminal set. So each connection pair looks like it will be running at least two pairs of speakers.

What happens when you wire up the right hand connections to the amp ? Some speakers shoud play.

That is still not enough to account for all the speakers, unless they are spliced in else where.

Good advice on calling back the installer. Somewhere in the thread I didn't think you had hired him, but rather bought a house with a job he did. So keep that line open as his knowledge of what in place is the best. Might be worth a few $$ to have him stop by (if he's willing) to help hook up your equipment. Sometimes installers won't bother with your equipment. In addition to the mystery amp location, see if he can at least explain what the "zone 2 control" control connection is supposed to be used for - IR repeater, remote turn on etc..

think i founf a piece of the puzzle

Ok...so I think I've found a piece of the puzzle. In the master bedroom closet I found a box that contains ALOT of wires More specifically, it has what I am pretty certain are audio cables for each of the rooms. Some of them are not connected and some seem to all be attached to a "master source" cable(I've attached pics on this). Here is the breakdown of the cabling:

All of the following seem to be connected to a blue cable labeled: master source:
Garage
Porch
Bath
Bed 3
Master bath
Living room
nook

The following are simply not connected at all:
Master bed
Bed 2
Fam. Room
Powder room

There are holes in the wall next to the box which implies that the prior owner had something mounted on the wall (rec/amp?).

For the ones that are all hooked up to the master source, where does this master source lead? Or is it the mysterious zone 2 hook up that I mentioned before...hmmm..

Yes - the prior owners had the installer do this two years ago and he is actually not with the company anymore. The person I talked to was very brief and seemed rushed in his explanations.

Thanks!

In the photo where you had the speaker connectors taken out of the wall box, there's something written on those wires. How does what's written there tie back to wires you found in the MBR closet ?

the writing on the cables down by the tv do not mactch up with the MBR closet. By the TV, the writing is: Right front, left front etc. which presumably controls the surround sound system if you want it setup. Upstairs, the cables correspond to the rooms that have ceiling mounted speakers and most of the hook up to a master source cable.

I called the installer again and they werent very helpful. Those two gray wires sticking out from the speaker connectors should simply be plugged into the zone 2 output he said. Interestingly enough, my prior call to them they said only the left one should be plugged in and the right one is a sub woofer wire. Needless to say, plugging both of them into zone 2 does not work (as i tried it before). They said they can come out and take a look ($90/hr) but wont have any openings until late Jan.

Thanks!

got something working

Figured I'd post my partial success...Here is what I have working:

1. The cables in the MBR closet that werent hooked up to anything I tried hooking up to my old receiver and voila...sound came out in the guest bedroom. So thats good news The only cable that didnt seem to work was the master bedroom (also not connected to anything). Only problem is that I dont even see a volume knob in the master bedroom. Perhaps it was hooked up to take another form of receiver/amp to control up there.

2. The two back speakers in the living room (i.e. Rear left, rear right...ceiling mounted) also works via the screw down connectors. So now I have my own FL, FR and center with two rear ceiling mounted speakers working.

Still, the biggest mystery remains. The master source cabling for the downstairs...still not working. At this point, I've narrowed it all down to only two cables (the mysterious "Zone 2" cable on the left and the right one). None, however seem to do anything. I'm pretty certain the amp is working correctly when they are plugged into Zone 2 output but no sound.

I should also mention that one of the cords in the MBR closet has: SOR Fam. Rm source written on it and is also not connected to anything. Wonder if this is another main source cable of some sorts.

Besides the main problem of the main source cable not working, it seems the general layout was to control X number of rooms via the main source cable (not working) and have a secondary receiver controlling the other rooms whose cables are not connected. Does this sound a like a normal thing to do?

Thanks!

"Besides the main problem of the main source cable not working, it seems the general layout was to control X number of rooms via the main source cable (not working) and have a secondary receiver controlling the other rooms whose cables are not connected. Does this sound a like a normal thing to do?"

There is still a piece of the puzzle missing, that does not sound realistic to have speakers installed with no connections made to them.

Down in the living room there are four sets of screw down speaker connectors. Two of those pairs run the two ceiling speakers in the LR. What have you found about the other two pairs ?

Looking up in the MBR photo I can see two four conduction wires that are patched to other cables with blue splices via two short pigtails. Could that be where the wires on the unused screw down connectors in the LR make their way to ?

The RCA plugs in the LR have a grey wire, do you see any of these grey wires in the MBR closet ? Do you have any RCA plug outlets anywhere else in the LR ?