Integra Research RDC-7.1

<font color='#000000'>Greetings everyone,

We thought we'd start a forum thread for current owners of the RDC-7. &nbsp;As you are aware, this spring Integra Research will be introducing their new processor and DVD player. &nbsp;The new RDC-7.1 will have PC style card slots to make future upgrades a bit easier, as well as make the unit more customizable. &nbsp;In addition, they have added several new features such as HDMI connections, updated DAC's and DSP's and more. &nbsp;Many people who currently own the RDC-7 have e-mailed us, and stated in other forum threads, that they are upset at Integra Research for doing a new unit, and not supporting the now 4-year old RDC-7. &nbsp;While I'm not in total agreement with those who are angered, and feel that Integra Research did support the unit for 4-years, I do understand and appreciate everyone's concerns.

For those who own the RDC-7, we'd like your feedback on what you think Integra Research should do for current owners. &nbsp;Please be realistic in your suggestions for example, if you want to trade up to the new RDC-7.1, appreciate the fact that Integra Research can not afford to do it for free. &nbsp;Also, try to be as specific as possible for example, if you want another upgrade to your RDC-7, what do you want in that upgrade, and again, how much are you willing to spend for the upgrade. &nbsp;If you are content with the RDC-7 as is, please state this as well. &nbsp;Or, if you do wish to trade up to the new RDC-7.1, how much are you willing to spend. &nbsp;

In the weeks that come, we will share this information with Integra Research. &nbsp;There is no guarantee’s and this survey is completely independent and sponsored only by Audioholics, not Integra Research. &nbsp;But I’m sure your inputs will be greatly appreciated by the manufacturer and heard.

Thanks for your inputs.</font>

<font color='#000000'>Steve, thanks for the idea of starting this thread. It's much needed as many RDC-7 owners are angry with Integra Research for not yet providing a trade-in program for the owners of the RDC-7 towards the RDC-7.1. I'm sure that you are aware of the huge thread at AVS - enough said about that.

I myself am interested in a trade-up and not in a RDC-7 upgrade as the RDC-7.1 seems to be really future-proof ( unlike the RDC-7 which was advertised as being future-proof but isn't).

How much am I willing to pay for a trade-in? Between $1500-$2000. To justify that let me remind you of other manufacturers who offered such programs and how much they charged for the trade-ins. Here are two examples:

1. Krell owners of the Home Theater Standard 2 processor who bought one new from an authorized dealer were able to trade in their units for the Home Theater Standard 7.1 for $1,500. People who bought it secondhand paid $2,500 for the trade-in.

2. Sunfire's trade-in program was for $1800 plus the Sunfire Theater Grand 2 for the Sunfire Theater Grand 3. There previously had been a trade-in program from the Sunfire Theater Grand 1 to the Sunfire Theater Grand 2 processor, which was $1000.

I think that in the $1500-$2000 price Integra Research should include the base-unit and 2 or 3 additional modules. For additional modules they could charge extra.

Thanks,

Nicu</font>

<font color='#000000'>I second Nicu's suggestion. I bought my RDC-7 based in part on the promise of its &quot;fututre proof&quot; archetecture. I think that Integra Research could make good on that promise by allowing a fair trade-in on the RDC-7.1. I don't think that it would be economical for Integra Research to continue with upgrades of the RDC-7 past the long-promised i-link connection for DVD-Audio, but I wouldn't mind that if I could trade mine in on an RDC-7.1.</font>

<font color='#000000'>Since I have been an RDC-7 owner for only a few weeks, I am not among those thoroughly incensed by the way things seem to be unfolding.  I say &quot;seem to be&quot; because I've seen no official statement from Integra Research on what they will and what they won't be offering to RDC-7 owners.  Nonetheless, I completely understand their outrage.

Having said that, I do have an opinion on upgrading the RDC-7.  I am expecting the IEEE1394 interface in May or June and I expect the cost to be reasonable.  Beyond that, I would like to see additional surround formats added as well as switching facilities for the newer interface standards, HDMI (or DVI) being the main one.  I won't pretend to suggest what these should cost, but they must pass the &quot;seems fair&quot; test.  My &quot;wish list&quot; ends there because that's where my crystal ball clouds up.

While I am not personally interested in trading my shiny new RDC-7, I'd like to see a fair trade-in program offered to those who have owned the flagship unit for some time and are interested in staying loyal to Onkyo/Integra/Integra Research.</font>

<font color='#000000'>I'm don't (yet) own an RDC-7, but have been leaning seriously toward acquiring one sometime this year (hoping to find a used one).

It looks like the 7.1 may be a little to rich for my budget, but if IR doesn't come through with an upgrade path by the time the it's ready to ship, perhaps some of us less fortunate home theater buffs might be able to help out those of you who wish to upgrade by taking the old ones off your hands.

I can't imagine I'm the only regular Audioholics reader in such a frame of mind - perhaps the site could act as a conduit for us all to get what we want.</font>

<font color='#000000'>pepar,

Funny meeting you here. I'm sorry, but I think you'll be disappointed if you want additional switching capabilities from the RDC-7. Take a look at the back and inside and you'll see why. I doubt any manufacturer such as Integra Research would consider a modification that requires a new back panel or new holes punched in the old one. The IEEE 1394 connection has been contemplated from the start, and it is possible, if very unlikely, that they could put something else there instead. Otherwise, there simply isn't room for anything but a kludge, nor any good way to connect the new switching circuits to the old circuitry.

On the other hand, upgrades to new surround formats are possible, either by reprogramming or by swapping out the DSPs for new ones, which may be the only way you'd see Pro Logic IIx on the RDC-7. I'm doubtful they'll want to do this, though, because it would mean they'd have to do development for two platforms at once. Since that was what they avoided by making the core of the RDC-7 the same as the Integra and Onkyo receivers, I suspect they'd actually prefer to offer trade-ins to more upgrades on the old platform.</font>

<font color='#000000'>First, I would like to say that the RDC-7 is not 4 years old. The unit was released in May 2001 so it's less than 3 years old. Also, the RDC-7 was advertised as being &quot;future-proof&quot; - see the Integra Research press releases. I bought mine 2 years ago precisely because I was told that the unit was &quot;future-proof&quot;. If the unit were not &quot;future-proof&quot; I wouldn't have bought it. Now, it turns out that the RDC-7 isn't &quot;future-proof&quot;.

I would like Integra Research to offer a FAIR trade-in program for all RDC-7 owners who wish to upgrade to the RDC-7.1. I do think that Integra Research has a moral obligation to do so. The RDC-7.1 seems to be &quot;future-proof&quot;. The RDC-7 obviously isn't.

Now, I don't expect the trade-in to be free. The RDC-7 + $1500-$2000 for the RDC-7.1 with 2 or 3 additional modules seems like a fair price to me ( see the list above too for how much other companies charged).

I would also like to see an official announcement about this soon. The more it takes Integra Research to decide about this the more bad publicity the company will get on the forums.

By offering a fair trade-in program Integra Research will keep its customers happy and loyal. We, its customers, will continue to support &nbsp;the company both financially- by buying its future upgrades/modules and products - and also by spreading the good word. Potential customers will realize that this is a serious high-end company that supports its products and keeps its word. Integra Research has a lot to gain from offering a trade-in program. Let's all hope that they'll do so.

R</font>

<font color='#000000'>Hey folks,

First, to audioholics, thanks for setting this up and passing our thoughts to IR in an organized manner (not that we haven't tried ourselves

As some of you know, I've made no secret of my feelings on the matter. &nbsp;The issue that is most important to me is HDMI switching. &nbsp;To get it as an upgrade to my existing RDC-7, I'd pay 2x the cost of a standalone 2x1 DVI switcher (2x because I highly value the ability to have the switching integrated in the pre/pro).

If it is not feasible as an upgrade, I would pay up to $2000 for a 'base' RDC 7.1 (whatever configuration 'base' happens to mean so long as it's about as functional as the RDC7 is now) and accept buying additional modules at MSRP or 'normally' discounted dealer prices.

Oh yeah, and if this happens, I assure you that I will sing your praises as loudly as I would otherwise condemn.

TM</font>

<font color='#000000'>&quot;First, to audioholics, thanks for setting this up and passing our thoughts to IR in an organized manner (not that we haven't tried ourselves&quot;

We certainly have tried. We've e-mailed the following people at Onkyo/Integra:

The Onkyo National Product and Marketing Manager
The Integra Marketing Coordinator
The Integra and Custom Installation Product Manager
The Onkyo/Integra Customer Service Manager

The only person who e-mailed me back was the Customer Service Manager.

R</font>

<font color='#000000'>I agree with Nicu's &amp; everyone elses suggestions so far. I also do not expect a free trade in. I think that they should also structure it to include a discount on purchasing additional mdules at the time of the upgrade.

All I want is the offer that I can trade up to the new unit.</font>

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Razvanel : <font color='#000000'>I would also like to see an official announcement about this soon. The more it takes Integra Research to decide about this the more bad publicity the company will get on the forums.

R</font>

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<font color='#000000'>Who, beyond you and anthonymoody, is giving IR &quot;bad publicity&quot; on the forums? &nbsp;I don't see anyone else with anywhere near your stridency. In fact, it is my humble opinion that some of it has become counterproductive.</font>

<font color='#000000'>&quot;Who, beyond you and anthonymoody, is giving IR &quot;bad publicity&quot; on the forums&quot;

I think that you should read the AVS thread again and you'll see that there are many people upset with IR. Some of them don't have the time to post there more than once or twice. I do. If you read the thread carefully you will also notice that there are 2 or 3 lawyers who own the RDC-7 and it was them who first mentioned legal action against IR.

I forwarded all this posts to the Onkyo/IR officials listed above. Onkyo knows very well what we want. We want a fair trade-in program. We even told them how much we are willing to pay for it ( note that we didn't ask for a free trade-in although based on their 'future-proof&quot; claims we could have asked for that). Onkyo has a nice way out of the mess they themselves have created by claiming that the RDC-7 was &quot;future-proof&quot;. The ball is now in their court. Let's see how they play it.

R</font>

<font color='#000000'>Pepar,

Your statement that Raz and I are the only ones posting with a negative slant toward IR is disingenuous at best and preposterous at worst. &nbsp;I'd second Raz's suggestion to reread the thread and really look at who agrees and who disagrees with IR's inaction on this (and what they think of IR if the result is indeed leaving RDC7 owners flat).

Further, regardless of the source, do you think that the issue would have risen to the level of IR asking Audioholics to set up this feedback mechanism (which is what I believe has happened here) if the original thread were 7 posts long? &nbsp;Come on. &nbsp;IMO they're responding because the depth and breadth of IR owners is such that they need to consider options carefully.

TM</font>

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Guest : <font color='#000000'>Pepar,

Your statement that Raz and I are the only ones posting with a negative slant toward IR is disingenuous at best and preposterous at worst.  I'd second Raz's suggestion to reread the thread and really look at who agrees and who disagrees with IR's inaction on this (and what they think of IR if the result is indeed leaving RDC7 owners flat).

Further, regardless of the source, do you think that the issue would have risen to the level of IR asking Audioholics to set up this feedback mechanism (which is what I believe has happened here) if the original thread were 7 posts long?  Come on.  IMO they're responding because the depth and breadth of IR owners is such that they need to consider options carefully.

TM</font>

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<font color='#000000'>No, my statement was that you and Razvanel are pretty much the only people I see that are giving IR &quot;bad publicity.&quot; &nbsp;Others have stated concern, but for the most part are waiting until IR actually says something one way or the other and not engaging in speculation. &nbsp;I seriously doubt that IR asked &quot;Audioholics to set up this feedback mechanism.&quot; &nbsp;More likely, the DeSallas recognized a surefire way to jazz up their forum and drive traffic here. &nbsp;I'm not saying that they are BS'ing us about passing this on to IR, but I'm realistic about the genesis of it.

And I guess we have different philosophies on how to handle this. &nbsp;I personally think that threatening legal action is not the way to go. &nbsp;First of all, it ain't gonna happen. &nbsp;Second, if it did, it would fail. &nbsp;Go ahead, grab one of Razvanel's &quot;2 or 3 lawyers who own the RDC-7&quot; and see if they'll take it on. &nbsp;Wake up and smell the coffee.

Either O/I/IR is a good company concerned about its customers, or it isn't. &nbsp;Expressing our concern to them is not only all we need to do, it is the only thing we can do.</font>

<font color='#000000'>&quot;Either O/I/IR is a good company concerned about its customers, or it isn't.&quot;

True!

&quot;Expressing our concern to them is not only all we need to do, it is the only thing we can do.&quot;

False!

Now, back to Steve. Steve, it's pretty clear what we want. Integra Research had enough input from the thread here, the one at AVS, or the one at Club Integra. They also got a lot of e-mails and phone calls. We did our part. Now it's time for them to decide. When can we expect an official announcement about this? In a week? In two weeks?

R</font>

<font color='#000000'>Wow!

I didn't realize this topic would get so much interest in such a short amount of time.

A few things.  Please, please, please understand that this thread was created totally independent of Integra Research.  We did it simply to gauge what people want and thought it would be a good place to vent and come up with suggestions.  Yes, we will alert IR of this thread, especially given the number of people who have responded, but our intent was nothing more than informational and offering a place for owners to share their thoughts and concerns.

As for Mathew's suggestion about current owners selling their IR RDC-7's to those not concerned about this issue, I think it's an excellent idea.  In fact, I'm sure e-bay will now be flooded with RDC-7's.  You are all welcomed to sell them here in our free classifieds as well.

Now back to the issue, I'm completely in the dark, just as you are.  We did do a detailed article on the RDC-7, and we will be doing a detailed article on the RDC-7.1.  Furthermore, when and if Integra Research makes what ever decision they will make, we will certainly post it in our daily dose section.  But that's all the news we have and that's all we can provide at this time.  

I'm sure there will be others on this thread before the end of the coming week.  So far, I personally think you guys are coming up with thoughtful solutions.  I'm glad to hear that no one expects a free upgrade or trade-in.

Last issue, even though Integra Research is owned by Onkyo, I'm not sure that's enough to say that they are a large company.  For example, Denon now owns McIntosh and Marantz, but I don't know for certain if all their budgets for product, marketing and R&amp;D are combined into Denon.  The same may/may not be true for IR.  Yes they are owned by Onkyo, but I'm almost certain they have different engineers and technicians and probably different budgets.

Anyway, thanks for the interest and continued feedback.</font>

<font color='#000000'>I have had the RDC-7 for one year and a half and I expect &nbsp;Integra Research to offer a trade-up program... As many others, I bought it expecting it to be future proof... I can't believe that I spent so much money on something that will soon be dated... If Integra Research doesn't offer a trade-up program &nbsp;I won't sue them but I definitely won't buy anything from them ever again!

Concerning the price for the trade-up I think that $1500-$2000 is fair. Actually I would pay:

1. $1500 for a trade-up to the base RDC-7.1

2. $2000 for a trade-up to the RDC-7.1 that includes the AM/FM tuner, the two 7.1 multichannel inputs, and the video module with component inputs/outputs - this would make it as functional as the RDC-7.

I suggest that this trade-up is done by dealing directly with IR thus avoiding dealers so that cost is kept down.

Daniel</font>

<font color='#000000'>What's with all the &quot;unregistered&quot; posters here?!?  How about everyone taking two minutes to register?  If we are going to take advantage of this forum, let's all be good citizens.

Just my $.02.</font>

<font color='#000000'>Pepar,

I guess we have a different definition of bad publicity. &nbsp;If you think the many negative comments eminating from sources other than myself and Raz in this matter are not bad publicity, I believe you are sorely underestimating the possible impact and badwill that could be created out of this situation. &nbsp;I also disagree and find it sad that you believe &quot;Expressing our concern to them is not only all we need to do, it is the only thing we can do&quot;. &nbsp;Sad.

In any case, I've been having an offline conversation with another concerned citizen regarding this matter, and he encouraged me to post something here which I told him. &nbsp;In keeping with my commitment to sing the praises as loudly as I otherwise condemn, I said that if a trade-in were offered, not only would I trade-in my 7 toward a 7.1, but I would purchase an *additional* 7.1 for a separate home theater I have. &nbsp;I certainly don't think that a single 7.1 at the margin 'matters' in the sense of truly influencing the decision by IR (though who knows). &nbsp;I simply say it to demonstrate that my commitment to IR will be full if they come through.

TM</font>

<font color='#000000'>Well, I'm registered. The truth is that it is so easy to post here without going through the registration process that many people prefer to do just that.

R</font>