Sound absorbers for me - need YOUR advice...

[edwelly]

Hello all... With winter coming on, I was thinking of making some DIY sound absorbers. Give me something to do... I am going to make the http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/roomacoustics/DIYabsorbersacoustics.php but using a design of 2x3 instead of 2x4. I feel that 2x4 may be too big for my walls. Gotta remember the WAF here...
Then I was going to look into 2 foam wedge bass traps like this - http://www.sonex-online.com/Specialties.htm

Thoughts and or suggestions??? I feel like I need to do something BUT since this is the MAIN (and I mean main) room in the house, I cannot do a lot - hence the 2x3 size vs. the 2x4 size.

As always, thank you...

[edwelly]

Forgot to attach my room layout... And there is NO rearranging anything - wife has already said any of those suggestions will be met with a NO.

[Buckle-meister]

Thoughts and/or suggestions?

Remembering always that corners benefit the most from absorption, why not use the wall/ceiling corners as much as possible? Then you wouldn't have to move anything.

Also, chances are that you (r wife ;)) wouldn't be prepared to have panels setup for the right hand side first-reflection positions out in the open, i.e. symmetric about the listening position's long axis, so ignoring these for the moment, I'd think that two positions (the front-left speaker's left side-reflection and front-right speaker's left side-reflection) should be treated. You've already indicated with two red arrows that you'd be prepared to treat two locations along the top wall, so this would work out nicely; the only variable then being their lateral position (easily worked out).

Regards

[Tom Andry]

Consider having your wife look for fabric that she likes and will accent the room. Remind her of the "blow test" (now that just sounds dirty). If you can hold the fabric up to your mouth and easily blow air through it, it is alright to cover the absorbers. Where you are looking at installing them look good to me.

[edwelly]

Any suggestion on using the 2 bass traps? While I realize that is not enough, will this help some?
Also, is the 2x3 size ok?

[Buckle-meister]

Any suggestion on using the 2 bass traps

Only that the more the better. Would there be anything to prevent you putting additional traps in the corners with the objects that cannot be moved, i.e. above them?

Also, is the 2x3 size ok??...will this help some?

I don't see why not. For bass traps, I think I am correct in saying that thickness (not necessarily volume) is of greater importance than area because the thicker the panel, the more it will absorb lower frequencies.

...I realize that is not enough...

Definitely a 'glass is half empty' kinda guy! ;) :)

In principle it's easy; the more traps the better. In practice, WAF/budget/aesthetics etc will dictate what is acceptable, and what is not.

Regards

[edwelly]

Only that the more the better. Would there be anything to prevent you putting additional traps in the corners with the objects that cannot be moved, i.e. above them?
Are you saying use 2 in each corner

I don't see why not. For bass traps, I think I am correct in saying that thickness (not necessarily volume) is of greater importance than area because the thicker the panel, the more it will absorb lower frequencies.
Any suggestions on what else I should try as I am working on a budget here...

[Buckle-meister]

Are you saying use 2 in each corner

What I mean is that not being able to move objects in your room doesn't necessarily have to be considered a disaster. You still have the third dimension, height, to play with. So if for example that's a sub in the top-right corner, there's still the option of putting a trap there, only above it. Every little helps.

Any suggestions on what else I should try as I am working on a budget here...

I'll try to think of something, but there are others far more able to help you here than I...

Ultimately, no matter how much you spend, be it a lot or a little, it can only improve the untreated room you presently have.

Regards

[edwelly]

What I mean is that not being able to move objects in your room doesn't necessarily have to be considered a disaster. You still have the third dimension, height, to play with. So if for example that's a sub in the top-right corner, there's still the option of putting a trap there, only above it. Every little helps ahhhh, I see - makes perfect sense BUT for the small budget I am working with - let's say I get 2 to start off with, where would YOU put them?

Thanks my friend!!!

[Buckle-meister]

...let's say I get 2 to start off with, where would YOU put them?

Understand that this is my opinion. I am in no way saying that this would work the best; I don't know enough about acoustics to give such recommendations. And anyway, it's easy enough to take a few measurements and determine the placement that actually works best.

For what it's worth, I'd do exactly as I have done in my own flat (fancy that :rolleyes: ); put the majority of bass traps behind the listening position along the rear wall and in the corners. My reasons for doing so were:


It keeps the front wall as clean as possible (who cares what the back wall looks like since you'll hardly see it most of the time). Wife will almost certainly disagree here. ;)
To my mind, it must be better to absorb the sound as quickly as possible, so why put the traps at the front wall, when, in very simplified terms, the sound would have to bounce off the rear wall and then travel back to the front wall before being absorbed, i.e. passing you twice, when if the traps were placed behind the listening position, the sound only passes you once before being absorbed?
Regards

[Buckle-meister]

I'll try to think of something...

I'm struggling, but figured I'd bring this (http://spikyfish.com/acoustics/panels.html) to your attention if you haven't already seen it. Hope it helps you somewhat. :)

Regards

[mtrycrafts]

I'm struggling, . Hope it helps you somewhat. :)
Regards


Why are you struggling ? Not sure if anyone is interested?:D

Is this your setup? Interesting birds eye view shot of the room.

[WmAx]

I'm struggling, but figured I'd bring this (http://spikyfish.com/acoustics/panels.html) to your attention if you haven't already seen it. Hope it helps you somewhat. :)

Regards

Wow, that room must sound like a giant headphone or a nearfield speaker set-up. Uh... yuck.... though I suppose the fellow did not have much choice due to the very narrow room dimension. :(

-Chris

[Buckle-meister]

Is this your setup?

No. It is Sploos.

Wow, that room must sound like a giant headphone or a nearfield speaker set-up. Uh... yuck.... though I suppose the fellow did not have much choice due to the very narrow room dimension. :(

Don't be nasty. Look through this (http://spikyfish.com/acoustics/) to see the difference Sploo was able to achieve from untreated to treated.

Regards

[WmAx]

No. It is Sploos.



Don't be nasty. Look through this (http://spikyfish.com/acoustics/) to see the difference Sploo was able to achieve from untreated to treated.

Regards

I have no doubt that the number of acoustic absorbers used will substantially change the response. I also have no doubt that the sound resembles that of a nearfield monitor with that number of treatments. But as I stated, the choices were obviously limited to this, due to the narrow room dimension.

-Chris

[bpape]

I would seriously consider making DIY bass absorbers for the corners as opposed to the foam ones. From past experience, IMO, there is NO comparison between solid or even straddled 4-6" thick fiberglass, mineral wool, cotton and ANY foam in terms of bass absorbers. This applies not only to performance but also to cost. I'll guarantee you that you can do some nice fiberglass or mineral wool absorbers covered with cloth to match the wall panels MUCH cheaper than you will get any decent (being nice here) foam product.

If you have limited space in the vertical corners, consider the horizontal ones (wall/ceiling intersection). If aesthetics are rearing their ugly head, consider building a false soffit that will look nice but act as a huge broadband bass absorber.

[edwelly]

I would seriously consider making DIY bass absorbers for the corners as opposed to the foam ones. From past experience, IMO, there is NO comparison between solid or even straddled 4-6" thick fiberglass, mineral wool, cotton and ANY foam in terms of bass absorbers. This applies not only to performance but also to cost. I'll guarantee you that you can do some nice fiberglass or mineral wool absorbers covered with cloth to match the wall panels MUCH cheaper than you will get any decent (being nice here) foam product.

If you have limited space in the vertical corners, consider the horizontal ones (wall/ceiling intersection). If aesthetics are rearing their ugly head, consider building a false soffit that will look nice but act as a huge broadband bass absorber.
I am going to go the DIY route. Any links to the DIY bass traps that you think I should look at? Thanks!

[edwelly]

I'm struggling, but figured I'd bring this (http://spikyfish.com/acoustics/panels.html) to your attention if you haven't already seen it. Hope it helps you somewhat. :)

Regards
Thanks - I enjoyed reading what Sploos did. Not sure if I am going to do that much though as I still have a HUGE WAF here.

[bpape]

EdWilly,

To build the corner absorbers, there are 2 options.

1. Build a frame and 'hang' it straddling the corners. This can be as simple as some 1x6 filled with absorbtion with cloth stretched over it.

2. Make solid absorbers. Cut 2'x4' piecs into 8 equal triangles (cut in half, then cut each half with an X cut). Stack them up in the corner and put up cleats at the edge to hold them in place. Staple cloth over the top and trim.

WmAx

Some people LIKE the nearfield type of sound. Also, when you have a room that is 'volumetrically challenged' you have little choice. I'll guarantee you that whether you personally prefer the nearfield sound or not, that the room with no or fewer threatments would be a LOT more 'yuck' than it is with them.

[edwelly]

EdWilly,

To build the corner absorbers, there are 2 options.

1. Build a frame and 'hang' it straddling the corners. This can be as simple as some 1x6 filled with absorbtion with cloth stretched over it.

So I could build the same type and just hang it in the corner? If so, that sounds easy enough... Thanks!

[WmAx]

Some people LIKE the nearfield type of sound.

I'm sure that some people do prefer the nearfeild(similar to anechoic) type of sound. But I suspect that they are in the minority since this type of listening removes much of the realistic ambience possible on standard stereo recordings in a proper room.

Also, when you have a room that is 'volumetrically challenged' you have little choice. I'll guarantee you that whether you personally prefer the nearfield sound or not, that the room with no or fewer threatments would be a LOT more 'yuck' than it is with them.

I acknowledged this is my first post concerning the room in question. There is not doubt by me, that because of the room dimensions apparent in the photograph, that the sound was only improved by essentially removing almost all ambient sound.

-Chris

[Tritonman]

IMO..before you go buying or doing any room treatments there are a couple things you need to do first.

1: Measure your rooms frequency response. Find out where the problem is before trying to correct a problem you may or may not have. There are some free room measurement applications out there. If you have a Radio Shack SPL meter then you are all set. The link below is a nice free app.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.mulcahy/roomeq/

2: Educate yourself. If you dont know what each treatment is doing then you are defeating the purpose. All bass traps are not created equal and the materials used will affect which frequencies you are trying to correct. corner bass traps do not fix everything sub 80hz. So you need to find out where in your curve you are lacking and need the help. You may actually boost where you meant to diminish. The link below is a good wicked long educational read on room acoustics.

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

3: Try using existing furniture before buying/making room treatments..this helps in cost as well as the ole waf thing.

4: make small changes..go back to 1..rinse repeat.

5: if you are having difficulty with where to place room treatments due to waf or whatever reason..you may consider purchasing the DSP 1124p Feedback Destroyer. It is a very popular bass eq for $99. This will help dramatically cure peaks in your system and tame bass response. This will not enhance dips but mostly cure peaks to acheive a better flatline.

As im sure you know, treating a room is the best thing you can possibly do to your sound quality..but you have to do it carefully and make sure what you are doing will actually help with your problem. Can treating a room incorrectly actually decrease your sound quality? It sure can.