Building a Windows Media Center 2005 PC - Parts 1 & 2

[Clint DeBoer]

Media Center is optimized to look good even on low resolution TVs and is best driven via a remote control - making it one of the ideal choices for use in HTPC operating systems. This is Part 1 of a set of articles summarizing Chris Tham's experience choosing the components and building a a custom-built Home Theatre PC running Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 (or "MCE2005" for short). Part 1 is an introduction, Part 2 shows a step by step pictorial guide to assembling the hardware, Part 3 details the software installation steps, and Part 4 contains some objective and subjective impressions of the result.

[<A href="http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/buyingguides/WindowsMCE2005part1.php">Read Part 1 of the Article</A>]

[jaxvon]

I have a few bones to pick with the hardware decisions, namely the video card, processor, and consquently the associated motherboard.

In my experience of building computers and servicing them, Gigabyte makes TERRIBLE hardware. I've run into way too many incompatability and stability problems with Gigabyte stuff. I stay away from it. Thus, I think a different video card vendor should be chosen.

Secondly, I definitely disagree with the use of an Intel Processor. The newer Prescott cores run extremely hot, with the upper-end ones putting out around 100 watts in thermal dissipation. This is too much heat. Keep in mind that the processor is DUAL core, so it's going to be a veritable furnace inside your case. The AMD Athlon 64 processors have much better thermal performance, even in Dual Core configurations. Less thermal output means less cooling needs, which equates to less noise from the processor fan.

I also think that if a Zalman cooler is to be used, that it be the all-copper version. It doesn't take up any more room, and the additional cost is negligible for the increase in performance. A few degrees celsius might not seem like much, but it can make the difference between stable and crashing in a case where low noise is a goal.

Thirdly, the motherboard would have to change if the processor were to be an AMD. Abit makes excellent products, so I have no beef with that. If possible, one with a similar featureset but configured with a Socket 939 configuration would be great.

Other than that, the choices look good.

[Francious70]

I have to agree with Jaxvon. In my experience Gigabit is junk. I'd even take something made by AOpen over Gigbit.

I'd make the video card an ATI All In Wonder as well. And upgrade the system memory to 2GB.

[Sheep]

Ditto.

I would have put in a DFI Ultra D mobo.

Here, this would be my HTPC computer!

http://secure.ncix.com/pcbuilder/index.php?action=getprice&id=2184914&platformid=1000

Its mostly a gaming computer in a HTPC case, but it has a Better sound card for HT use.

sheepstar

[MDS]

The problem is that if you want to use a P4 to build a new box, you cannot get anything but a Prescott at the moment. Newegg doesn't have any Northwoods. The only place I found that still had a few Northwoods was zipzoomfly.com. I settled for a 2.66 Northwood because that's all I could get.

[Khellandros66]

:eek: Wow some of the posts here kinda got me going.

1: Gigabyte is a highly rated company, sure I prefer Asus but, its not your review either, some balls - you demand a different board that has already been aquired because of your bad experience.

2: That is not a Prescott core its a Pentium D 830 which is the Smithfield Core. This is a Dual Core CPU

3: Intel is the better choice for multimedia apps such as video heavy material. Most programs are HT optomized and MMX optomized as well.

4. nVidia added Video Accelaration at the hardware level for the NV43 core used in the Geforce 6600 series cards.


BTW I am CompTIA A+ Certified and former Site Admin of the late ModdersHQ.net so yeah I have the experience and the ability to back what I just said.


~Bob

[jaxvon]

1. I'm not the only one who has been screwed by Gigabyte and their products. I have friends and colleagues that have gotten shafted too. Not all of their products are junk, but I just stay away from them now as a general rule.

2. My bad.

3. Very true, I neglected to think about this.

4. I have no preference on the video core. In fact, from what I've seen right now, nVidia is the way to go with the mid-high-level video cards. Much more performance for the dollar. ATI all-in-wonder cards have flaky tuners and higher quality can be achieved with an add-on card.

[HookedOnSound]

I can bet this setup works much better than the ones that I have seen so far...

I was at Staples/Business Depot about two months ago when I came across an HP Media Center PC playing Lord of the Rings: Return of King.

The unit kept pausing and stuttering every 30-45 sec. What a disappointment! I know there were probably several factors (dirty DVD disc, etc) but you expect more for a product that is suppose "Media Center" certified being demoed in the store.

No wonder ppl aren't driving in droves to the stores to pick one up and ditch their home DVD players in the garbage at home :rolleyes:

I'm gonna wait until I get myself an HDTV before I even consider a HTPC, hopefully by then the offerings/options will be more numerous and more mature.

[Khellandros66]

Probably because they use the standalone WMP to play DVD which it just plain sucks at. I have WinDVD 7 and it rocks, WMP is a freenbie so don't expect much from it.

WMC IMO is a joke cause its Home Edition with the added Interface...whoopiiiiieeess. Hopefully Vista Media Centeer will be better.

I would love to see Apple offer a Mac Mini with:
1.25ghz G5
1GB DDR2 Ram
8x Superdrive
120GB HDD
Geforce 6600 128MB graphics
802.11b/g
Bluetooth 2.0edr

That with a modified version of OS 10.4 for HTPC use would rock the house and be powerfull enough to do some video editing/capturing, etc.

~Bob

[Sheep]

Probably because they use the standalone WMP to play DVD which it just plain sucks at. I have WinDVD 7 and it rocks, WMP is a freenbie so don't expect much from it.

WMC IMO is a joke cause its Home Edition with the added Interface...whoopiiiiieeess. Hopefully Vista Media Centeer will be better.

I would love to see Apple offer a Mac Mini with:
1.25ghz G5
1GB DDR2 Ram
8x Superdrive
120GB HDD
Geforce 6600 128MB graphics
802.11b/g
Bluetooth 2.0edr

That with a modified version of OS 10.4 for HTPC use would rock the house and be powerfull enough to do some video editing/capturing, etc.

~Bob

Thats funny, all that and it can't right click :rolleyes: :p


SheepStar (just messin, don't be hating on me)

[jaxvon]

Thats funny, all that and it can't right click :rolleyes: :p


SheepStar (just messin, don't be hating on me)

Actually, apple finally introduced a new 2-button mouse with a scroll wheel. It looks cool, but it's still as uncomfortable as always. The scroll button is way too small, and the way it senses clicking makes it utterly useless. F-- for Apple Engineering.

[Sheep]

Actually, apple finally introduced a new 2-button mouse with a scroll wheel. It looks cool, but it's still as uncomfortable as always. The scroll button is way too small, and the way it senses clicking makes it utterly useless. F-- for Apple Engineering.

Thanks for RUINING my joke...:rolleyes:

SheepStar (just messing again, your right, bow bow bow)

[Fred T.]

If you go to the link for the case and then under the Q&A link it specifically says this:

"The VFD/IR and remote control in the LC14M will work automatically with Windows MCE after the included software (on a CD) is installed. However, the LC14M does not support Microsoft’s MCE remote control."

So why does this guy put the Microsoft eHome remote in the parts list? I know next to nothing about HTPC thus far, would someone please enlighten me?

Thanks
Fred

[westcott]

From all the tests I have seen, AMD still outperforms Intel in Media Encoded Streaming. The Pentium D840 can not keep up with the Athlon 64 X2 4800+.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=238&model2=224&chart=72

And, as said before, an HTPC should run cool and quiet. Intels higher clock frequencies run way to hot.

Intel is no longer top dog except in a few applications for sse2\3.

[jaxvon]

Well, I just read part 2 and I'm fairly impressed with the exclusion of 1 thing...

Coarsair Memory + Gigabyte mobo = recipe for disaster. Seriously, I built a machine using this configuration, only to find out it would BSOD with more than a gig. Upon emailing Gigabyte, I was informed that Coarsair memory is not compatible with Gigabyte hardware, a little tidbit they fail to mention anywhere on their website. Granted, this was with an older Socket 478 processor and an Intel 865PE chipset, but I think it would still apply today. My recommendation is to skip the trouble and just go with Micron (Crucial) memory. They make an excellent, stable product that they truly stand behind.

[mustang_steve]

Yeah, I was tripped out that Arctic cooling products weren't used. Their stuff is incredible.

I have a system where only hte motherboard fan is audible (working ona fix for that...) it's not a HTPC, but a full-blown gamerig, no game is too potent for it...yet :p

Athlon 64 3500+ (yes, single core...dual core is not of enough value to be worth moving to yet)
Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 64 heatsink
2gb ddr-400 ram (2 x1gb) running in dual-channel
dfi infitiy NF4-SLI motherboard
Geforce7800GT 256mb pci-express videocard
Arctic Cooling Silencer NV5 (rev 3)
antec Neopower 480w PSU
2 80mm antec stealth fans
lian-li PC-72 (SCA rack gutted, and peforated hex mesh screen added in place for added cooling)
1/4" sound damping foam added to all interior surfaces...excess fan ports were sealed off, bay covers had 1/2" sound damping added to all of them.

The computer is a freaking behemoth, being bigger than my endtable, but even with the obnoxious motherboard fan, it's still so quiet that most people think that it's still off.

....that said, I am still very dissappointed in the poor cooling that these HTPC cases offer...we need at least two 80mm fan holes above the connector plate of the motherboard, if not a single 120mm. I guess dual 60s are fine for just watching movies and PVR work, but it's far sexier to have a gaming PC attatched to that awesome home theater than just a vanilla PC.

[jaxvon]

Very nice computer Steve. I think the design could've used a silent cooler from Scythe, myself.

http://www.scythe-usa.com/

[Sheep]

I liked part two. The SP-120 is the sexiest CPU cooler I have ever seen. Looks like a big block. :)

If I could do it all again, it would go something like this..

http://secure.ncix.com/pcbuilder/index.php?action=getprice&id=2252217&platformid=1000

SheepStar

[Sheep]

Way over-kill Sheep. You must remember this is a HTPC.
Being a HTPC-Why in the heck would you want WinXP Pro (Home would be fine for this app.)
(and would be 90.00 cheaper)
A64 3200 is overkill..
ATI 1800XT (now seriously, you know this is way overkill)(and expensive)
Also that SLI board?
A 74GB Raptor????
For a HTPC, needs much more space than 74GB.
Yes it is a fast drive, but with limited space (and highest cost per GB)
Also a quieter drive would be better.
And by chance, you know, I have a Raptor...
Also I am thinking of stepping up to the new 150GB Raptor x2 (in RAID 0).
The new Raptor is not as fast as the 74GB I have, but does offer more space.
EDIT:: (393.00 for that case?? I think this one for 119.00 and looks like a HK receiver)
http://www.nmediapc.com/htpc200.htm

I would play games, on my home theater. Thusly, the uber computer.

SheepStar

[mustang_steve]

Yep, if going through the trouble of making an HTPC, why not make it a gaming rig, and put those silly XBox 360s to shame with your superior processing and graphics power.

Actually, I just found out that i am stuck with the crappy chipset heatsink on this thing, and will have to mod the NV5 coolers like mad to get the second 7800GT I want in here....My plans are to buy a 30" Apple Cinema display sometime within the year, and have a truly drool-worthy HT/gaming setup in my living room.

As for the heatsink...I'm pretty picky, and for the noise level, it's very hard to beat the freezer pro...plus the mounting system is easy like sunday morning. on an a-64 x2 3800, it cools 2c better than the copper/aluminum Zalman cooler, and far quieter. Only downside is the rather tall design of it.

I guess which HTPC spec is right for a person all lies in if they game or not.

If you gamers want funny...I finally installed Arx Fatalis today...had the game laying around for years...it's actually pretty good....pity it looks like hell on a regular TV :p

[awesomebase]

I know that I may get some bad feedback for my comments on this, but please take a couple of moments to just contemplate my assertion about this system.
I think the articles from Parts 1 to 4 are all well written and fully explained. I just want to say as a general comment that this is exactly the reason why I switched from PCs to Macs five years ago. Prior to that, I had a computer business building custom PCs. My overall system-building experience is in excess of 12+ years and I do have to say that I did enjoy it for the most part (except for getting my hands cut-up occasionally by the metal cases and internal snap-out parts that prevailed many years ago).
When I looked at this latest project, the first thing that came to my mind was that this should be a fairly smooth process now that both software and hardward has advanced so much since the days I worked on these things.
However, after reading through each article, it became obviously clear to me that MS just doesn't quite get it yet. I kept feeling like my move to Mac was more strongly reinforced. Just the areas about enabling the Media player after everything is installed or face problems with drivers, media, etc. and the need for a complete reinstall to resolve this was enough to turn me off. I'm not sure how to explain it, but, it is just too much work for not a great payoff. I did like the specs on the DVD performance though. My main gripe is that it just seems to me that the idea of a media-center PC is great, but the hardware and software, at least in the PC implementation, is not nearly mature enough for mainstream users. Some of my PC friends jokingly hassle me about using Macs, but, I've been able to "convert" a number of them to Macs after several months where they realized that I spend literally "no" time doing any hardware configuration, re-installing software, fixing bugs, updating virus software, etc. etc. I'm not about to claim one system is better than the other, that is a matter of personal choice. My main point is that, once again, a supreme effort is required to put together functions for producing a convenience that, at best, should be vastly cheaper and simpler to do. I know Apple's "Front Row" application doesn't have as many features, but it would literally take one paragraph to explain how to get started using it:

Plug Apple computer in.
Turn on computer and login.
Startup Front Row application, pickup remote control, and select desired function.
Choose media from application and press "Play" on the remote control.
Enjoy!

Now granted, it isn't hooked up to digital cable, etc., but the principle of integration and simplicity is applied quite well. There are external USB devices for capturing cable TV, software for DVR functionality, etc as well, but it is not as mainstream as those available for the PC.
I just hope that in the next few months Apple will bring out a set-top device that will basically add HDTV and DVR functionality to their fine product, then we can see a review that just has a very small "Part 1". I think the Windows version will be very good once they can get hardware suppliers to integrate the necessary tools easily, simply, and at a reasonable cost. I would look foward to seeing that happen!

[Rip Van Woofer]

I was going to ask "what about us Mac users" but Awesomebass pretty well answered it for me. I have been kicking around the idea of eventually going the HTPC route but since nearly everything I read was about Wintel I didn't know if it was even feasible for Macs.

Forget who said it earlier but yes, a Mac Mini "on steroids" so to speak would be an awesome HTMac (to coin a term).

Howver, to get started I was thinking of running an Ethernet line from my trusty old B&W G3 (with G4 upgrade) to my planned basement media room and getting a Squeezebox for a music server setup.

With Macs now migrating to Intel chips the lives of us Mac users might get very interesting...mostly in a good way. Dual boot Win/Mac OS X box anyone? Or even Win/Mac/LINUX for uber-geeks? (yes, I know we already have BSD Unix built in)

[westcott]

Has the whole world decided that convenience is more important than quality?

DVD software has some of the worst video quality I have ever seen and I would not own an HTPC until its video quality is on par with separate DVD components. I have seen little effort in this regard.:(

If we are not careful, we may all be watching compressed versions of our favorite movies downloaded from the internet.

[Clint DeBoer]

I agreed in the past, but FINALLY some of the video cards are starting to get it right. Plus they are rolling out 72Hz "refresh" rates so instead of 2:3 you are getting 3:3 from native 24fps source material. This looks very good and eliminates most of the deinterlacing and jaggie issues.

I think as technologies continue to roll out like ViiV and CableCARD for the PC, we'll see a more 'practical' HTPC start to emerge.

[pappekak]

Any plans on a similar report for a Linux based HTPC such as MythTv?

[ironlung]

Any plans on a similar report for a Linux based HTPC such as MythTv?


I think linux VDR is probably the best. While it may be the biggest tech hill to climb compared to MCE. VDR and linux in general are very economical with the video/processor power of the PC. I have read on other forums that a 2.3 P4 is doing full 1080i on linux and needing a 2.8-3.0 for the same 1080i on windows.

My dream HTPC would be a monster backend computer with all the processor, video and cooling power I could afford and have 4 DVB-S(attelite) tuner cards for dishnetwork HD((il)legal grey area if you have a DN sub) and another OTA HDTV card. I would have it in a nice cool basement. Then have a little small quiet PC in the theater room to stream the programming and sound from the monster.

Other forums state linux VDR (once up and running witch can be hard to do) is the most tivo like experience(turn on and watch).

EDIT: It has been pointed out to me in private mesage that my post is misleading. That far less processor is needed for 1080i. The configurations I have read about are running more software decoding an encrypted stream from DN. However that information is completely second hand and utterly untested by yours truly.

[westcott]

I agreed in the past, but FINALLY some of the video cards are starting to get it right. Plus they are rolling out 72Hz "refresh" rates so instead of 2:3 you are getting 3:3 from native 24fps source material. This looks very good and eliminates most of the deinterlacing and jaggie issues.

I think as technologies continue to roll out like ViiV and CableCARD for the PC, we'll see a more 'practical' HTPC start to emerge.

Dear Clint,

I thought you would find this article interesting. It basically catches ATI lying about their cards being HDCP compliant. Nvidia is also implicated.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=851

It also explains the royalties and registration fees for DVI and HDMI.
My also explain why some choose to only provide DVI.

Have a great weekend!

"His and Her Room"

[mike_on_g]

Thats a very expensive system @ $1600. I recently put a system together for a gift for $850m not including keyboard, mouse or monitor.

MB--> MSI RS482M4-ILD Socket 939, RAID 0/1, ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 Micro ATX AMD, onboard Audio, SVideo Out, ethernet, etc.. ~ $75

HD --> 2 Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 ST380817AS 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache Serial ATA150 Hard Drive ~ $60

CPU --> AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 ~ $160

RAM--> 1.5 gig ( 1g + 512M) Crucial DDR SDRAM DDR 266 (PC 2100) ~ $160

MCE\TUNER--> Windows XP MCE 2005 (OEM), PVR-150MCE, MCE Remote, nVIDIA DVD Decoder ~ $219.95

Thermal Take CPU Coller --> ~ $50

DVD-RW --> ~ $70
CAse --> ~$40

* System boots very fast (RAM)
* decent audio
* Tuner has conexant chip, i.e., decoding via hardware not software
* overall performance good. Can always be better but at what cost?
* No system crashes to date ~ 1400 hrs

Cons:
* No ACC (MP4) Audio support by MCE
* Remote has some serious configuration problems, once it's setup it's okay, however it appears that if you modify the setup ,or (change the batteries ,third hand info) it craps out. SOunds like a EEPROM or Flash which I hav e personally seen with other gear in the past.

Suggestion - Do you your homework on the components, when working with MS operating systems saturate with RAM.

This was the 1st that I have put together HTPC.

The person uses the system as an HTPC with a SAMSUNG LN-268W LCD TV, PIP, very good picture and good price, SAMs ~$1000.

[dropbear]

In part 3, Chris mentions that he had to force a refresh of 56Hz. Anyone know what projector and model he is using?

[DanielB]

hi all - new to site - posting from Australia.
I have a Nakamichi DV10 driving Whatmough speakers - very satisfying sound system.
Ive just bought a panasonic 50" plasma with HDMI and 15pin Dsub inputs

I am custom making a media centre, the basics are :-
Silvertone Case with 7" touchscreen
dual core 3.0Gig cpu
2gig ram
latest intel (945) board
2 x 250 gig HD in raid
2 x 16x dual layer DVD burners
Dual HDTV card - possibly fusion
7.1 card
Windows media
wireless keyboard ect.
+ more....

Can any one advise of the best HDTV card, video card, sound card.
Is the HDMI input on Plasma better than the 15pin Dsup connector?
Is there a video card that supports HDMI ?
Can I get the equivalent DVD quality as my Denon dvd3000
I'd appreciate any advice.