Newbie, need some help picking a Sub. ~$250

Hello everyone. Just ofund tghis forum and I think its great. I just ordered a proj so I need a sub for the audio. I want to have a decent audio system but dont have a lot of $$ right now so I will do it slowly. Right now I Want to get a Sub and center speaker. But this post is for sub only.

I am using JBL S38 speakers for mains. Also have an Onkyo TX-DS484 reciever driving everything...

Now I am looking at the Mirage S10 that can be had for $250 right now. Ive also seen some posts about the Velo in this price range, which would you reccomend? MY instincts would tell me to get the Mirage since its a $500 sub whereas the velo is always around this price range...

Now the room: It's difficult to describe but it is in a basment. I will be setting up the HT stuff on the left side of the basement. It is 14' long by 12' wide. I am sitting at the rear wall so 14'. The thing is to the right of me are two columns (that hold the house up) and the resst is open space (about just as much 14'X12'). Now I am not really concerned about that part of the basment since the scren and projector and everythinng is on th eleft side but I understand it will effect the bass somewhat. Given this what would you reccomend? Sorry about the long post but I need to make sure I do this right, and you guys are the best, thanks.

By the way I have low suspended ceilings so the heigh is 6'6"...

also how would the JBL E250 sub compare to the above. And should I look at a specific kind of sub due to my low ceilings?

maxse said:

also how would the JBL E250 sub compare to the above. And should I look at a specific kind of sub due to my low ceilings?

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Forget the JBL sub. They're awful. (I know this from personal experience.) For cheap go with Advent 12" (real cheap), or Cadence XSub (<$300), or go with Hsu or SVS for top bang for buck in the $5-700 hundred range (depending on size).

Thanks for the JBL advice I'll stay away

What do you guys think of the velo and the mirage s10 that can be had for $250 right now. Which one would you prefer?

maxse said:

Thanks for the JBL advice I'll stay away

What do you guys think of the velo and the mirage s10 that can be had for $250 right now. Which one would you prefer?

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.....MaxSE, I think it would be agreed, it's hard to go wrong with SVS, HSU, and Velodyne.....

so def. the velodyne over the mirage s10?

The onyl problem I have with the Velodyne is that the one I would get for $250 is Silver in color and I really dont know if that is a good idea with a ptojector setup since silver might reflect the light while black would absorb it.

I would go without a Sub right now, and save your money. If you purchase a sub right now you will be replacing it, and the $250 was a waste.
I would get the SVS PB10-ISD. It's a awesome sub and your not going to find one in it's price range thats better. Infact you'd have to spend double to find a better sub.
Also look at their B-Stock, and see if you can save alittle.

www.svsubwoofers.com

I'd have to agree with that. Even if it takes you a while to save for the PB-10, it will still be worth it. I had the chance to hear the Cadence today (thanks Ron!). It is decent, but it is pretty obvious why it is $229. I won't put it down, because it's got some decent output and does sound decent in the upper ranges, but when things get low, it really apparent when it starts to struggle. I'll try to post a mini review of it tomorrow.

Jeez John, I was hoping to talk someone into a straight across swap for a PB10 based on your positive review .

Yes the Cadence is decent. It does some things extremely well for a budget 12" sub.

maxse is asking here and over on AVS whether to go with a couple of deals. The Mirage S10 or the silver Velo DLS3750R. The Mirage has great specs (21hz), is an Energy company and is getting great reviews. I lean toward the silver Velo for the same price. I think they are both going to be musical subs with very good output. The Velo may compare very favorably with the Hsu VTF2.2 (as may the Mirage). They both retail for $500 and Vanns has them on sale for $249 shipped.

I went with the Cadence based on craigsubs numbers and some of your reviews. I like it, but I've pretty much come to terms that unless you are prepared to spend ~ $500 you're not going to get $500 in performance. So maxse, take it from one whose sent 2 $400 subs back and settled on a $250 sub. I'm still looking (as John knows). The Cadence is good for most music, but the Velo was better. I see the Mirage as being pretty equal to the Velo in most things.

Neither the Velo, Mirage or Cadence can touch a SVS or Hsu at the $500 price point. Maybe at $1800.

Thanks guys,and Ron you have been very helpful thanks for helping out my decision. I would love to get the SVS but I really dont see myself spending that kind of $$$ on a sub any time soon even if I where to have the $. It looks like I will probably settle for the Velo, the only thing is that it is not available for $250 anymore. Someone over at AVS told me they got it for $200 refurbished. Do you think its a good idea to get a reurb. sub? Should I wait until I find one thats refurbished, because I don't think I want to spend $500 for the velo right now obviously.

*EDIT* Guys the SVS sub you keep telling me about, is that the PB-10? Its $429 not including shipping. Isi t really that much better then the Velodyne? And its better in what way, not just louder right because I really do not want to stretch my budget this much just for a louder sub.

Also since I am not considering getting this baby lol, could you please read my room description and tell me if the pb-10 will be sufficient my basement. Thanks everyone.

In adddition, will this sub be any good for music? Mostly pop and dance music? I just read a thread somewhere and someone said that the SVS subs are tuned very low and sacrifice above 30hz. which is not good for music but good for movies. What do you think?

Guys I just email SVS and they told me that I would need the 25-31PCi since my room is aboutg 2200 cu-ft total even though I will only be sitting and listening on one side of the room. Hes said that if I go with the PB10 I would lose 2-4db of maximum clean output. They said it owulod sound good but I will be limited to 106-112db of clean output. And that if I calibrate the system it would equate to 9-15db under "reference."

Now can someone please explain this to me lol im not quite sure. Does this mean that I the pb10 is not a good solution for me? The reason I stretched my budget for it is for the clean bass, but if its not going to be as clean Id rather save $250 and get the Velodyne. Any comments/suggestions?

SVS suggestions

The sugestions by SVS refer to the maximum volume level that the PB-10 sub will reach. This has no impact on how "clean" the sound is, just how loud it gets or how much you can feel it. You will not find any other subs in the same price bracket that go down to 20Hz.

If music is more important to you than HT, you might consider the HSU STF-2 or the rocket ULW-10 subwoofers. Both are tuned down to the 30 Hz range and would make great subs for music and good subs for HT.

maxse said:

Guys I just email SVS and they told me that I would need the 25-31PCi since my room is aboutg 2200 cu-ft total even though I will only be sitting and listening on one side of the room. Hes said that if I go with the PB10 I would lose 2-4db of maximum clean output. They said it owulod sound good but I will be limited to 106-112db of clean output. And that if I calibrate the system it would equate to 9-15db under "reference."

Now can someone please explain this to me lol im not quite sure. Does this mean that I the pb10 is not a good solution for me? The reason I stretched my budget for it is for the clean bass, but if its not going to be as clean Id rather save $250 and get the Velodyne. Any comments/suggestions?

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Even if the SVS isn't the right sub for your size room, it's going to blow away every thing else in that price range. You'd have to spend double, or triple to get a sub as good as the SVS. Forget the Velodyne.

Another option for you

You may also want to consider this sub.

go to Parts Express -> Subwoofer kits
search for the 10" TITANIC MKIII SUBWOOFER KIT

I built one and for the price, it's remarkable. It's definitely a 10" sub in that it won't affect your gut the way a 12" or larger will. However, it's very clean (sealed design) and the money has obviously been put into the components.

For comparison, a Mirage S10 sub appears to weigh about 41 lbs. This sub weighs 64. It has a large magnet structure and that does help. Plus, since you are putting it together, you can see the quality of the components (very high).

There is a review on an older version of it, check it out.

Personally, when I have the money, I would consider one of the SVS subs but it's tough because I know what this sub can do and I can't imagine what it's bigger brothers can accomplish.

Also, the price is closer to the range you're looking at.

Jotham

save for better

I agree with the earlier post that suggested that you would be better off saving for a better sub. In you price range you would probably be replacing any sub you purchase after a short time since you probably would find it not up to your expectations. I have been through 3 different subs starting at 10'' and ending up at 15'' and I would have saved a bunch if I would have saved for a good one to start off with. Im not saying you will not outgrow your need for bass but it might last a little longer with a better sub at first and you will save in the long run.
Im sure most people on this forum understand how important a good sub is to a system. I can assure you if you are even modestly demanding of you system you need a good sub or you will be dissapointed for sure.

no major loss

Even if you do decide to upgrade you're sub later, it's always nice to have extra subs for around the house, car etc. Speaking of myself, I have a sub each for two cars, a 10" for the bedroom and a 12" for the home theater room. Someday I hope to get another 12" for the home theater room to add extra oomph and balance out room modes.

You can never have too many subs

Jotham

jotham said:

Even if you do decide to upgrade you're sub later, it's always nice to have extra subs for around the house, car etc. Speaking of myself, I have a sub each for two cars, a 10" for the bedroom and a 12" for the home theater room. Someday I hope to get another 12" for the home theater room to add extra oomph and balance out room modes.

You can never have too many subs

Jotham

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It has nothing to do with the size of the driver. And why don't you just get the right subwoofer so you don't need as many?

You would probably need a REALLY long extension cord to use a self powered sub out of your ht in your car

to answer his question, I would go for the Mirage. I don't know what velodyne your talking about, but if its 250, I think the mirage will stomp it.

I have campared the Engery version (S10.3) to the velodyne DLSR5000R and it was tighter, and went down jsut as deep. I think for 250, your getting a hell of a deal, as the cheapest I can get the s10.3 is around 500

I say go for it, unless you want ot save for a SVS.


Sheep

Sheep said:

to answer his question, I would go for the Mirage. I don't know what velodyne your talking about, but if its 250, I think the mirage will stomp it.

I have campared the Engery version (S10.3) to the velodyne DLSR5000R and it was tighter, and went down jsut as deep. I think for 250, your getting a hell of a deal, as the cheapest I can get the s10.3 is around 500

I say go for it, unless you want ot save for a SVS.


Sheep

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I've got to agree. If you want the 25-31 go for it and don't look back. If the Mirage is as good as Sheep says, then you can always flip it later. That deal won't last.