Denon DVD-5900 Contrast Bug [Archive] - Audioholics Home Theater Forums

gene

12-26-2003, 01:40 PM

After our initial first look of the Denon DVD-5900, it quickly became apparent to us, that this player was plagued with a Contrast Bug.  We patiently waited for a second player from Denon to verify our objective analysis and visual observations prior to reporting this to our readership.  As a result of testing the first and second players, we are now confident that the DVD-5900 has a Contrast Bug.   We are hopeful that Denon can resolve this with an easy firmware fix just like they have resolved other operational issues with previous players.  We will report their feedback to this issue when we meet their engineers at CES 2004.

Denon DVD-5900 Contrast Bug (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-5900ContrastBug.html)

12-26-2003, 04:04 PM

Gene

Very interesting. My compliment to Audioholics; one of the few places where you consistently find informed, critical, but fair pieces on equipment and how to set it up.  I am awaiting Denon's reply.

Keep up the good work.

Christian (from Norway) <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

goodman

12-26-2003, 06:25 PM

Thanks for the heads-up, Gene. *I just cancelled my 5900 order with Elegant Audio. *First the inactive DVI output delayed shipment, and now it's the contrast bug, but I'd rather wait until they get it right.

Cain

12-26-2003, 10:27 PM

I know that many people who have tried the 5900 have complained of macroblocking on black and very dark scenes.

I'm guessing that this "contrast bug" has something to do with the macroblocking issues.

Thank you for the review, please keep us posted on any word from Denon.

--  Cain

Rob Babcock

12-27-2003, 01:48 AM

I guess I'm in the minority, but if I could afford a 5900, I'd take one in a heartbeat.  I'd use it for music and use my DVD-2200 for movies.  If you can believe the initial reports, it's among the best sounding hi rez universals at any price.

Of course, my DLP FPTV can't really do black anyway, so I probably wouldn't know the diff! <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'>

gene

12-27-2003, 11:34 AM

Hi guys thanks for the feedback.  In actuality, setting the player to 0IRE resolves much of the problem we have noted in the article.  However we still feel the DVD-2900 offers a more dynamic picture at least via component video outs with our test displays.  We will be gearing up soon to test DVI output as well.  Rob you are correct, the DVD-5900 has stunning audio playback in all modes of operation.  However configuring between Dlink and playing multi channel SACD can become somewhat confusing and annoying.  I will detail this in my review.

12-27-2003, 01:42 PM

Gene,
    Not to nitpick, but the graph that you show is not a luminance graph, but the RGB report from Colorfacts.  What was your measured luminance from the 5900?  Also, your display is not calibrated to D65K with your blue being at 140% (probably closer to D85K).  Finally, Red Push is a Color Decoder issue, not a grayscale issue.  A properly calibrated display should have equal parts of blue, red and green at all measured IRE's from 20-100 IRE.  Some displays do this better than others.  In my case, I have a Hitachi 57SWX20B.  There is a blue hump in the middle IRE's of about 10% which causes grayscale to jump from D65 at 20IRE to elevate to D72K in the middle IRE's.  The only way to correct this is with an external scaler that has gamma control on it.  I tried using the 5900 gamma controls, but to no avail (through DVI and component).  

One last thing, the DVI port on the 5900 elevates the blue by an additional 10% in the middle IRE's (at least with my hitachi).  I don't have another DVI TV to see if this is inherent to my TV or with the DVI port in general.

Dave

12-27-2003, 01:45 PM

Gene,
    One last thing.  Did you use AVIA to do your grayscale setting or VE?  If you used AVIA, then your grayscale is really messed up because there is chroma added to the grayscale windows in AVIA.  AVIA is only good for color decoding, not grayscale.

Dave

steve

12-27-2003, 01:56 PM

Dave,

We did the test with the blue set down lower on another display. *Let me point this out that we have discussed this subject with many ISF and non-ISF technicians. *The blue is typically pushed to a higher level to compensate for our eye's difficiency in seeing this color. *When we turned up and down the blue driver (BDRV) and blue cut-off (BCUT) on the display, the only thing it did was add or subtract a blue hue, it did not alter the overall brightness of the black 0-IRE window.

As for your comment regarding the AVIA DVD, there is indeed rumor that this disk is not accurate for grayscale. *We discussed this subject with both Milori and Ovation Software, the creator of this DVD. *Both parties indicated that this is indeed a rumor. *They did state that there is a slight problem with the grayscale, but not enough to be measured or observed.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that our own observations showed that the contrast improved with the DVD-2900 on two different monitors. *This was in instant observations. *Keeping the calibrations the same for the TV, and changing the DVD player only, should provide a fair comparison of the black window, somewhat regardless of the settings. *We altered many settings before concluding that the contrast ratio of the 5900 is less than that of other players and the DVD-2900.

12-27-2003, 03:05 PM

Gary Kuo has directly stated that AVIA is flawed for Grayscale.  This is not a rumor.  Also, every DVD player is different in its output.  When you change the DVD player, brightness, contrast and grayscale needs to be redone to ensure proper calibration.  

As far as the blue being at 140%, it is dead wrong.  Your display is not calibrated to D65, plain and simple.  Also, can you please post the luminance graph so I can see what it looks like.  The only true way to test for contrast is with an O-scope, not through a display.  There are too many other things going on that can affect this.

Dave

steve

12-27-2003, 03:11 PM

What is D65 and where can I get a copy of it? *As for your comment on blue, it's not dead wrong. *It's true. *It's done on MANY RPTV's for the very reason stated. *Also, ISF supports this method.

The only way I'm aware of to change the blue is by using the BCUT (cut-off) and BDRV (Driver) in the service menus. *When doing so, it alters the blue by bringing it down some, but it does not become flat at 100%. *The only other way to do this is to open the TV and manually adjust the voltage to the blue CRT, and I'm not interested in doing this as it seems inherently problematic and difficult. *I've checked and measured two different Sony displays and some Hitachi displays (RPTV's) and they all have a push with blue. *In fact, the new Sony model used in this test does not have the red push problem that previously plagued RPTV's, but it still pushes the blue to 140%. *I agree that anything over this bleads through enough where you can see the blue push in the IRE windows, but at 140%, it's not noticable to the eye. *I've gone through it with the AVIA disk and a Sencore Video Pro image generator. *The Sencore image generator compared to the AVIA DVD showed very similar results regarding the grayscale measurements.

In the very near future, we will turn the blue setting down on the RPTV and re-measure the contrast ratio's. *We will also do our best to improve the calibration between the DVD-5900 and the RPTV to verify that our results are accurate. *Should we find anything different, we will update our article and make note of everyone's comments and help. *At this point, I am still certain that the player does not have the contrast of the DVD-2900 and therefore does not produce as good a picture.

As for my permenant setting for this and other TV's, I will continue to push the blue to compensate for my eye. *I've done this on enough monitors and have talked with enough people to recognize the validity of this setting. *I've also seen that over 140% does indeed show through in the grayscale, but at or below 140% does not. *Instead, it improves the perceivable color of the RPTV. *

I've also noted in articles that not only is blue pushed this high in MANY RPTV's and other TV's, but it's also partially out of focus on most RPTV's. *The only way to really change this is by lens flopping and adjusting the focus from within the TV, which I have no intention on getting into.

12-27-2003, 04:19 PM

D65 is 6500 Kelvin which is what a TV is supposed to be calibrated to.  You are correct in that blue is defocused, but this has nothing to do with it being at 140%.  If all are at 100%, then you adjust the Color DECODER to make sure that red, blue and green are correct for the color of the TV.  Adjusting the color decoder is different from grayscale (apples and oranges).  With Avia, you can adjust the color decoder without any test equipment.  To adjust grayscale, you need to have test equipment and an optical comparitor to get it correct.  If you look at the Avia 10IRE window in a dark room, you can see the red coming through on the picture if your display is calibrated properly.  

All I am saying is that you should try and adjust the blue down to 100% to get your grayscale at 6500 Kelvin.  With the blue being up so high, it can effect brightness and contrast of the TV (although it is the same for both the 5900 and 2900).  I have used both DVD players and preferred the 5900 and 2900 in side to side comparisons.  I had the both calibrated on different inputs on my TV to as close to D65K as possible on my Hitachi.  The picture from both were excellent, but the sharpness of the 5900 was much better.  That is why I kept it and sold my 2900.

Have a nice day.

Dave

steve

12-28-2003, 09:46 AM

At 100%, two of the CRT's are running close to 6500 kelvins.  The blue CRT is not.  Again, as on most TV's I've encountered, the blue is slightly out of focus, and running at 140%.  When we re-do the test next week, we'll turn down the blue on the CRT, but I don't think it will change my comparative results.

Thanks for your input.

12-28-2003, 04:19 PM

Steve,
    Thanks for the response.  I don't think there is a problem with the 5900 though.  As long as it displays 0 IRE and 100 IRE properly is all that matters.  The 2900 could be displaying the 100 IRE window a little "hot" (say 106 IRE) which would make the 5900 seem like it has a bug, when in reality it doesn't.  To conform to spec, it needs to have 0 IRE (below black) and 100 IRE (white).   By using the VE test, it is passing below black information.  The only way to see if it is passing 100 IRE properly is with an O-scope or a wavemeter (or so I have read).

Dave

PS.  Can you post a picture of the luminance scale from Colorfacts.  I am curious as to what the luminance is across the IRE field from your calibration.

steve

12-29-2003, 01:59 PM

Greetings everyone,

The following response was taken from another forum discussion, and included here for informational purposes.

Once again, we thank you all for your comments and concerns about our article. Since this weekend, I have contacted Milori and had a fairly lengthy discussion with them. While the key person is traveling, I was able to catch him on his cell phone. From his initial comments, I have the following information to report.

1) Validity of Test - First of all, Mark was intrigued by our testing procedure and indicated that if the only variable is the DVD player, then this seems to be a valid method of comparison. As we indicated in our review, this is not an absolute measurement, but comparative. He seemed to agree that this is indeed valid.

2) Trichromat Sensor - Mark told me that it is very true that this sensor (as with many others including the Sencore) does not measure color within 2% at or below 10-IRE. I asked him the following. If the sensor can not measure color within 2% at 10-IRE, then how can it measure black and white and provide an accurate contrast ratio? Mark indicated that this was a great question, and offered the following response. The Trichromat Sensor is made up of four sensors potted into a housing. Three sensors are for color and the fourth gell mounted sensor is for measuring light (luminous) intensity. While the sensor does go "color blind" below 10-IRE and can not measure color below this, it is still able to measure light power and therefore, fully capable of providing contrast ratios, as indicated in their ColorFacts software.

3) Mark is still coming back from traveling and on a busy schedule, but he did assure me that he will review our article and our test procedure. From what I've described to him, he still seems to feel that while we are not providing absolute measurements, we are providing a "real world" application and showing a valid comparison.

Lastly, I did spend some time updating the article based on everyones feedback herein. For starters, I toned down the accusation of the "Contrast Bug" until we really know for sure. The other thing I added was the fact that our measurements were based on the DVD player being on the 7.5-IRE setting. To be honest with you all, the manual for this player stinks, and we honestly didn't know the player had this setting. We were aware of the chroma settings, and brightness and contrast settings, and did our best to adjust them, but we didn't know it had another entire setting for clipping the player at 7.5-IRE. I have mailed the sensor to Gene and he will be doing the test over at the 0-IRE setting later this week. But from what we've seen, it seems to not only tone down the black, but the white as well when switching this setting.

Anyway, we really do appreciate everyone's professional, proactive comments.

12-29-2003, 03:36 PM

Steve,
    If set to 0 IRE, then set the brightness to AVIA.  Next, set contrast per Colorfacts to achieve a luminance curve of 2.2 (gamma graph).  This should yeild better results.  The 7.5 IRE setting on the 5900 does make the picture washed out and flat.  I have noticed this as well.  The 0IRE setting is so much better for overall picture.

Thanks for the hard work.

Dave

12-30-2003, 09:33 PM

Thanks for the report of the chroma bug. Now I notice that Denon is reporting "chroma bug free" in their description of the 5900.

12-31-2003, 11:10 PM

THERE IS NO CHROMA BUG ON THE 5900!!!!  Where did you read THAT? <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>

pam

01-02-2004, 05:47 AM

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Guest : THERE IS NO CHROMA BUG ON THE 5900!!!! *Where did you read THAT? <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'>
These guys seems to agree with you:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin....VD-5900 (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=112#DenonDVD-5900)

01-05-2004, 06:16 PM

I had macro blocking in at least 6-8 movies in dark scenes even whith the ire set to 0.
I also had transport grinding/lockup of the player that many have reported at avs forum.

This player is not anywhere near the best universals in sound quality as someone posted either.
The people who think the 5900 sounds great are correct....but not compared to a 4k universal or 1500.00 cd only player or a 2k sa-cd/cd player or even a 500.00 modded player for that matter.

This player has a LOT of bugs and it is nice to see someone pointing some of them out as other testing that was done whithout any actual veiwing involved....is pointless imo.

I am also sick and tired of seeing others try to justify the 5900 video bugs as just a case of the player being more resolving <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

01-05-2004, 10:24 PM

I have had the 5900 for a month now. I run it through a 16/9 CRT. The darkest film I have is MIB superbit and in the black of night their shirts are the whitest white.
The tray to put the media in is very deep. I would suggest those having problems to make sure the media is flat on the floor and there is no debris in the tray. I haven't had any trouble.
How it sounds and what the picture looks like will vary with the equipment you use. Also involved is how carefully you set up a player with so many options. If you have been to a CES you will know that even experts can have a rough time making a room sound and look right.
Therefor I enjoy submissions with hints on how to improve performance, but find little use for the closet mod propagandists countinuosly saying that even the cheapest modded player would be better.
I enjoy whatever I play on the 5900.

gene

01-06-2004, 01:12 PM

Donato;

Thanks for your feedback.  You are correct, this player is a bit complicated to set up properly.  Until recently we weren't aware of the 0/+7.5IRE setting in the Pic Adj menu.  It was assumed that Black Level "Normal/Enhanced" performed this function as I believe Black Level "Normal/Darker" does on the DVD-2900.  That being the case, we are seeing a much more dynamic picture on the DVD-5900 in the 0IRE setting on our displays then we have in +7.5IRE mode.  After CES we will be testing this player again to compare 0/+7.5IRE modes and also consult with Denon for recommended set-up and calibration procedures.  We will surely update the article accordingly for the benefit of all owners.

We are still perplexed by the very slow navigation and chapter searching and hope Denon can resolve this with firmware.

pam

01-06-2004, 03:07 PM

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>gene : Donato;

Thanks for your feedback. *You are correct, this player is a bit complicated to set up properly. *Until recently we weren't aware of the 0/+7.5IRE setting in the Pic Adj menu. *It was assumed that Black Level "Normal/Enhanced" performed this function as I believe Black Level "Normal/Darker" does on the DVD-2900. *That being the case, we are seeing a much more dynamic picture on the DVD-5900 in the 0IRE setting on our displays then we have in +7.5IRE mode. *After CES we will be testing this player again to compare 0/+7.5IRE modes and also consult with Denon for recommended set-up and calibration procedures. *We will surely update the article accordingly for the benefit of all owners.

We are still perplexed by the very slow navigation and chapter searching and hope Denon can resolve this with firmware.
Gene, please

There is something that I don't understand. I did not try a 5900 but the set-up of this DVD should be clear enough even to newbies like me. Furthermore, you are an expert and you have tested this player. Denon should be able to provide an optimal set-up on which we could build on.
What I am trying to say is that with this kind of MRSP (around 2K) the setup should be well described.Like the default value for IRE should have been 0.

Does Denon only sell to experts that are able to set it up? For me reading the owner's manual should be enough... and default values should be set to take best advantage of the capability of the player...

Thanks

01-06-2004, 04:13 PM

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Guest : I have had the 5900 for a month now. I run it through a 16/9 CRT. The darkest film I have is MIB superbit and in the black of night their shirts are the whitest white.
The tray to put the media in is very deep. I would suggest those having problems to make sure the media is flat on the floor and there is no debris in the tray. I haven't had any trouble.
How it sounds and what the picture looks like will vary with the equipment you use. Also involved is how carefully you set up a player with so many options. If you have been to a CES you will know that even experts can have a rough time making a room sound and look right.
Therefor I enjoy submissions with hints on how to improve performance, but find little use for the closet mod propagandists countinuosly saying that even the cheapest modded player would be better.
I enjoy whatever I play on the 5900.
Donato...it does not matter what you think about the 5900 as it was our hard earned money that paid for one of the first 5900's whith transport grinding/lockup,major macro blocking on an 8ft widescreen DLP that was not repeatable whith 5 other players.
As I said, the 5900 offers great sound but does not compare to hi end cd/sa-cd players or universals and the people who say it does have never even compared the two.

I had a Sony 9000 es whith Modwright signature mods and a modded Phillips 963sa when I bought the 5900 and both were/are on another level in sa-cd/cd sonics.
I also had a 777es which bettered the 5900 in sa-cd.

The 777es *was 2k,2.8k for the Modwright 9000 and around 1200.00 total including mods in the 963sa.

The best sa-cd/cd playback was offered by the cheapest modified player in all who listened proving once again that parts quality = great sonics.

The 5900 did offer the best video by far on material that had no macro blocking.....this is what was so frustrating about owning the 5900.

If not for the macro blocking and transport grinding/lockup, I had planned on modding the 5900 which then would probably be as good as a 4 k universal or better sonically.

No amount of adjustment could get rid of the macro blocking to a level that was exceptable.

I can live whith the slooooow response time and  maybe the transport problem that in my case, was not repeatable, but the video being as good as it was on some material,just made it that much more of a let down while watching movies like Pitch Black,Unbreakable,Blade 2,Aliens,Broken Arrow ect ect.

Why don't you go over to the avs board and tell all the others who bought a 5900 that the macro blocking can be taken care of simply by making adjustments
<img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

And BTW....i was using about 15k in hi end gear to compare sonics so I would listen to some other gear before declaring the 5900 as the best universal....unless of course your comparing to stock 2k and under universals.

Rob Babcock

01-06-2004, 06:45 PM

Comparing a modded player to the stock Denon is pointless- why you don't check out Modwright's 5900 package?  Dan himself says he thinks that once modded, the 5900 is the best sounding universal player there is.  It'll be a little more expensive that the Phillips but you'll get DVD-A playback, too.  And the extra $ will help you impress people when you talk about your $15K stereo. <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'>

01-06-2004, 09:34 PM

I have always looked at home theater as a way to enjoy misic and movies. There is no way I could afford an ultimate system. However if you carefully read reviews of equipment in magazines you will find that experts cannot agree on perfection at any price!
The war between being stuck with what the man at the factory thinks is the best picture and having so many adjustments you go crazy will never be won. I just adjust a few each day. After you have been through the menu a few times, you'll probably know what you like best.
I still think that buying the best unaltered player in your budget is the way to go. Imagine the joy of having your player modded and then having it grind up your discs when it can no longer be returned
Finally since the people who make the discs can't make up their mind a universal player is the easiest way to go. I may not have the best system in the world but I have never had anybody say this sucks and walk out of the room.

gene

01-07-2004, 01:03 AM

ATTN Audioholics;

We redid some of our measurements in the 0IRE setting as well as the +7.5IRE (With careful tweaking of our Display) and found a much improved contrast ratio.

Please review our updated article:
Denon DVD-5900 Contrast Bug or Configuration (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-5900ContrastBug.html)

We apologize for misinterpreting our initial results.  This just goes to show you even the most serious Audioholics can get stumped  <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

During our critical review process, we will offer set-up tips and tweaks based on our findings and Denon's feedback, to help you get the most out of this player.  We may even offer Denon a dedicated forum spot to support this product here.  

Stay tuned...

petermwilson

01-07-2004, 07:42 PM

Hi
As the owner of an upgraded Denon 5800 I took significant interest in the audio portion of the 5900 particularly since it was connected to the Flagship Denon 5803 for the review.

My understanding is that the 5803 does internal decoding of any dvd-a signals it recieves.  If this is accurate I was wondering where does the 5900 end and the 5803 begin and vice versa in the processing of these signals.

Quite frankly as long as it sounds great, personally I don't care but for review purposes in the final analysis how do you know which one your reviewing?  It would seem logical that there's some crossover somewhere.

Peter m.

01-11-2004, 12:07 PM

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Rob Babcock : Comparing a modded player to the stock Denon is pointless- why you don't check out Modwright's 5900 package? *Dan himself says he thinks that once modded, the 5900 is the best sounding universal player there is. *It'll be a little more expensive that the Phillips but you'll get DVD-A playback, too. *And the extra $ will help you impress people when you talk about your $15K stereo. <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'>
Rob , I am NOT bragging, just pointing that out so that others no I did a fair comparison of the players sonics.

I bought the 5900 whith full mods in mind believing I would have a dream universal after mods.
If you read my post you would notice that *I had video macro blocking and noise in dark scenes of way too many movies and this is why I took the player back.

I do agree that the 5900 would make an awesome sounding modded universal in just about any systym though.

Rob Babcock

01-11-2004, 09:06 PM

I was just ribbing you a little.  It seems to me that for max performance, modding is the way to go, even with some pretty expensive gear.  As far as the Denon, I just know that Dan Wright knows a helluva a lot more about digital than I do, and if he thinks that it's the cat's PJs when modded then that's what I'll be drooling over!

Not that I'll be able to buy one anytime soon.  I have a DVD-2200, and I'm very happy with it.  If I could afford something nicer I'd go for it, but unfortunately I've got champagne taste with a King Kobra budget! <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':laugh:'>

01-12-2004, 09:45 PM

Realty check!
There is no best, there is only what you like best. In search of finding this elusive quality and talking of a companies top of the line player, what do we need to obtain Nirvana? It would be nice if a setup DVD came with the unit or one could be purchased at a discount with a coupon. It would be helpful if registered owners could be notified of firmware updates. It would be great if forums stayed on topic instead of the "its stinks compared to..." or "if you swapped out all the components it would be almost as good as.."
It was posted by the moderator that setup can improve the quality of the output. I would be interested to hear what was done.
We should be helping people get the most from their purchase.
It is a hobby not a war.

01-27-2004, 06:28 PM

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>gene : After our initial first look of the Denon DVD-5900, it quickly became apparent to us, that this player was plagued with a Contrast Bug. *We patiently waited for a second player from Denon to verify our objective analysis and visual observations prior to reporting this to our readership. *As a result of testing the first and second players, we are now confident that the DVD-5900 has a Contrast Bug. * We are hopeful that Denon can resolve this with an easy firmware fix just like they have resolved other operational issues with previous players. *We will report their feedback to this issue when we meet their engineers at CES 2004.

Denon DVD-5900 Contrast Bug (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/DenonDVD-5900ContrastBug.html)
i do agree with you, i just received my dvd 5900 and for instance i'm not happy.
it's true, there is a contrast bug, i'm trying to calibrate my dlp projector (sharp xvz-10000) and i don't like the black level.
i hope not regret my "old" dvd 2800 mk2.
please keep me posted if denon do something.
denon dvd 5900 serial number :3088400711.
thanks.

gene

01-27-2004, 06:32 PM

Paul;

Try setting the player to 0IRE in the "Pic Adjust" menu.  The manual doesn't document this well.  I am interested to hear your findings.

Juan Solo

01-28-2004, 06:13 PM

Does anybody know when the formal review of the 5900 is coming out? It appears that the contrast bug was not a bug after all, but rather had something to do with the player set-up. There seems to be news coming out on this player almost daily but I want to read some sort of professional review.

Thanks

Juan

gene

01-28-2004, 07:01 PM

Juan;

We have been so swamped lately with CES and product reviews, etc.  I am shooting to publish the review by end of February, first week in March.  There now I am committed  <img src="http://www.audioholics.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

petermwilson

01-28-2004, 07:43 PM

Hi Juan,
Well your lucky to have found this site for many reasons not the least of which is the quality of the product reviews.  With you last statement in mind, have a gander of the Feb issue of Home Theatre Magazine where a group of RPTV's were reviewed.

After looking at the methodoloogy you'll probably wan't to decide the parameters you attach to professional reviews.

Personally I thought it was a disgrace.

Peter m.

02-05-2004, 11:08 AM

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>gene : Paul;

Try setting the player to 0IRE in the "Pic Adjust" menu. *The manual doesn't document this well. *I am interested to hear your findings.
thats right, i put the black level at 0 ire and it's working fine.
do you know how to put it multiregion?
thanks.

02-17-2004, 04:47 PM

when u set the ire to 0 do you use the std setting or one of the memories?Is the std at 0 ire as well as it does seem brighter than all the memorie settings when it is set at 0!

02-28-2004, 03:10 PM

I am waiting for a retraction from you guys on this issue.  As I thought, there was nothing wrong with the 5900, it is dead on the specs (per secrets who actually used a scope to measure white and black)!  It turns out that the 2900 isn't to the spec and that white is too hot and not at 100IRE.  Are you guys going to stand by your results (flawed as they are), or print a retraction?

Dave

gene

02-28-2004, 11:24 PM

David;

How about rereading our original article as we have since then updated it and perhaps next time post with a bit more civility.

02-28-2004, 11:46 PM

Thats odd, when I went to Secrets I found a 1 page review of the 2900 and 5900 and a benchmark comparision of all players but no measurements indicating proper outputs at 0/100IRE.  

In fact, according to their Benchmark comparision:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin....&mpeg=0 (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=&manufacturer=15&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0)

The DVD-2900 played black/white levels flawlessly as quoted below in their article:
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Black and white levels are well within spec, as is chroma delay. Responsiveness navigating through menus and skipping chapters is lightning fast.</td></tr></table>

I see no measurements in their article to indicate how they arrived at this conclusion.  Perhaps I didn't look hard enough as their site is a bit tricky to navigate through.  Any ideas?

02-29-2004, 12:20 AM

I got my information directly from Kris Deering and he stated that the white output on the 2900 is a little hot compared to the 5900.  As far as the retraction goes, I reread the article and there only mention that you have is that when the display is set to 0IRE is now matches the 2900, but you still have a link to the "contrast bug" on your main 5900 page.  Also, someone from your site posted at AVS that there was a contrast bug in the 5900 and no one has gone back there to retract the statement there.  My biggest beef is that your testing measurements were flawed from the start because it was assumed that the 2900 was correct, which it is not.  Why not an article on a 2900 contrast bug now?  That would be more accurate.

Dave