Which sub is better?

RJC · Aug 12, 2005

Which sub is better, KEF PSW2000 or the Outlaw LFM-2 . They are both 8'' subs which is all I need for now.

Sheep · Aug 14, 2005

outlaw

although I didn't get to see specs for the kef sub, I'm saying outlaw.

sheep

brian32672 · Aug 14, 2005

the Outlaw

MacManNM · Aug 14, 2005

Unless you are listening in a closet, I would stay away from an 8" sub. You can get the Cadence X-Sub for under 250, it's 2x the sub IMO, and it's only 1 cubic foot larger.

Tomorrow · Aug 14, 2005

MacManNM said:
Unless you are listening in a closet, I would stay away from an 8" sub. You can get the Cadence X-Sub for under 250, it's 2x the sub IMO, and it's only 1 cubic foot larger.

A bit of a generalization, MacManNM. You haven't heard them all, I'd wager. I hope Cadence is taking note of your undying support. LOL.

Sheep · Aug 14, 2005

I agree

Not all 8inch subs are useless. Mine is kicking a$$ in a 16 by 12 room, and it used to be in a 16 by 24. Yep, kicked a$$ in there too. The outlaw will have alot of output, if its anything like there other subwoofer (LFM-1).

sheep

MacManNM · Aug 14, 2005

rjbudz said:
A bit of a generalization, MacManNM. You haven't heard them all, I'd wager. I hope Cadence is taking note of your undying support. LOL.

Yeah I’m sure they are. Sorry that I actually endorse a product that’s performance is well beyond it’s price range. No I haven’t heard them all, but there has been no technological breakthrough in subwoofer design of late ,that I know of. 8” subs are not big enough for any reasonable HT setup, unless it’s a HTIB which is what most of those are. To pay $300 for an 8” subwoofer is stupid and a waste of $300.

MacManNM · Aug 14, 2005

Sheep said:
Not all 8inch subs are useless. Mine is kicking a$$ in a 16 by 12 room, and it used to be in a 16 by 24. Yep, kicked a$$ in there too. The outlaw will have alot of output, if its anything like there other subwoofer (LFM-1).

sheep

You may think it sounds good, you are just used to it. Use an SPL meter and a signal generator to measure the room response. I’d be willing to bet that you cant get over 90db SPL @ 27 Hz anywhere in that room other than right next to the sub, if even there. An 8” driver can’t produce those bass shaking frequencies near or below 25Hz that so many movies contain. It simply can’t move enough air.

Sheep · Aug 14, 2005

no, but

If i don't watch movies at 90 db, why would I need 90dbs at all?

The subwoofer will play stronge to about 28hz, don't know the db, but I know it is 28hz(sine wave). With a tuning point of somewhere near 32ish, it's not supposed to play 25hz. My sub (energy e:xl-s8) Was a steal for me at 200 a couple years back so I'm not going to complain about performance. Plus, I have another subwoofer in my house, thats a 10inch in a sealed box, and they are very close. The energy starts to break up around 26 or 27hz, but this is at high power levels.

What do you think about the velodyne spl 800? it's an 8inch. I've heard the new one in a 16 by 16 demo room and it was loud. Put on LOTR and it hit really low.

sheep

Tomorrow · Aug 14, 2005

MacManNM said:
You may think it sounds good, you are just used to it.

Again I suggest caution. This could be turned around on you and the Cadence as well.

And not to get into The Big Battle over whether bass is bass is bass...some, make that MANY cheap 12" subs make a lot of noise all right...lots of spl's that are pure mud and mud echo.

Mac, I don't challenge the quality of the Cadence, because I've never heard it. You say it provides good value, and I believe that. BUT, you seem fixated on discounting everything else that doesn't fit your bias, even if you haven't experienced it. Leave a little room for an expansion of the 'truth'.

MacManNM · Aug 14, 2005

rjbudz said:
MacManNM said:

You may think it sounds good, you are just used to it.

Again I suggest caution. This could be turned around on you and the Cadence as well.

And not to get into The Big Battle over whether bass is bass is bass...some, make that MANY cheap 12" subs make a lot of noise all right...lots of spl's that are pure mud and mud echo.

Mac, I don't challenge the quality of the Cadence, because I've never heard it. You say it provides good value, and I believe that. BUT, you seem fixated on discounting everything else that doesn't fit your bias, even if you haven't experienced it. Leave a little room for an expansion of the 'truth'.

Click to expand...

I have heard some great subs, some decent subs and some bad subs. I have listened to paradigm, aperion, velodyne, and many other 8" subs. None of them are designed to really go down low, and play at reference levels. There is no 8" sub that can play at reference level (~27 Hz) in a 16x16 room. All I'm saying is, why get something that you are going to have to replace in the future? If you don't want a sub that can play at reference level, then maybe an 8" unit is fine for you. I like my music/Home theater experience to be realistic and enjoyable. I recomend the cadence unit because it is the best value for a sub under $400, period bar none. I don't own one, nor will I ever. People work hard for their money, why not get the best value for your dollar?

Sheep · Aug 14, 2005

wow.....

You have taken the word naive to a whole new low. Theres no way you can back the statement that an 8inch subwoofer can't play 27hz at reference level. If you build the right box and tune the subwoofer, it can play many notes that regular designs and configurations won't hit.

sheep

Tomorrow · Aug 14, 2005

Sheep,

It is true and you are correct.

But I'm really interested in your signature. I hope that "guitararmy" could ONLY mean the Florida Guitar Army, the Outlaws! My favorite band....and they just reformed! Oh man...what talent...what fine rock and roll.

MacManNM · Aug 15, 2005

Sheep said:
You have taken the word naive to a whole new low. Theres no way you can back the statement that an 8inch subwoofer can't play 27hz at reference level. If you build the right box and tune the subwoofer, it can play many notes that regular designs and configurations won't hit.

sheep

Sure you could hit 27Hz at reference levels, but it's only going to have 10Hz of useable bandwidth. I'm sure the phase plot is going to be nice and flat too. When you use an enclosure to push/change the characteristics of a driver something is sacrificed. You get more distortion, more phase variation, less linear response and just bad sound. Why do you think Bose is so bad? What I have stated is absolutely true. Go ahead and make some real measurements at these lower frequencies in your room, and let’s see the results. Who's being naïve? Bottom line: Size does matter, no matter what you tell yourself, or the Chixxxx.

Buckeyefan 1 · Aug 15, 2005

The only 8" sub I've heard to play music well was the Deftech Super Cube II, but it's not just an 8" sub. It uses a monster amp coupled with dual passive radiators. It's perfect for small spaces, and will fill a nice sized room. It goes low, but won't play at comparable reference levels to something like a SVS plus or ultra. I can find a much more capable sub for $900 msrp for HT, but for music, it's a heck of a little guy. The 10" is even more impressive, but again, for the price, I'll go shopping (if space is not limited).

Super Cube II

Dimensions: 12" W x 12" D x 12-1/2" H
Frequency Response: 14Hz — 200Hz
Driver Complement: One 8" long-throw polymer subwoofer coupled to two 8" pressure-driven infrasonic bass radiators.
Amplifier: 1250 watts Digitally-Coupled Class D
Low-Level High Pass: 40Hz — 150Hz (variable) 12dB per octave
Speaker Level High Pass: 80 Hz (6 dB per octave)
Low Level Low Pass Filter: 24dB/octave continuously adjustable variable (40 —150 Hz) plus Unfiltered LFE direct coupled input.
Phase Control: 0 degrees — 180 degrees (continuously variable)
Finish: Piano gloss black or golden cherry
Weight: 38 lbs.
Suggested Retail: $899 ea.

brian32672 · Aug 15, 2005

Buckeyefan 1 said:
Super Cube II

Dimensions: 12" W x 12" D x 12-1/2" H
Frequency Response: 14Hz — 200Hz
Driver Complement: One 8" long-throw polymer subwoofer coupled to two 8" pressure-driven infrasonic bass radiators.
Amplifier: 1250 watts Digitally-Coupled Class D
Low-Level High Pass: 40Hz — 150Hz (variable) 12dB per octave
Speaker Level High Pass: 80 Hz (6 dB per octave)
Low Level Low Pass Filter: 24dB/octave continuously adjustable variable (40 —150 Hz) plus Unfiltered LFE direct coupled input.
Phase Control: 0 degrees — 180 degrees (continuously variable)
Finish: Piano gloss black or golden cherry
Weight: 38 lbs.
Suggested Retail: $899 ea.

Wow, Buck. those are some impressive numbers. But damn thats also a price tag. Humm, maybe used. Or refurb.....

Sheep · Aug 15, 2005

how about sunfire 7inch one that hits 25hz?

anywho, I'm not going to drag this out anymore.

Unfortunately, my signature is not from the band you stated. It's a song from a band called "The Blood Brothers". The signature contains all the lryics to the song (41 second long song). The song is not for the light hearted, but you can download it quickly (haha im in canada

). I play the guitar (see member system thread "Not bad for 17" for pics) and I though it was a fitting signature for my personality, burning corvettes and cranking televisions.....

sheep

craigsub · Aug 15, 2005

MacManNM said:
Unless you are listening in a closet, I would stay away from an 8" sub. You can get the Cadence X-Sub for under 250, it's 2x the sub IMO, and it's only 1 cubic foot larger.

ManManNM - You need to get more friendly. Or have a drink. If this is not possible, you can make up for it by sending ME a drink ...

Oh - and I checked out the Cadence x-sub. It looks WAY too good to be true, so I ordered one to compare to the SVS PB10-ISD we have here now.

brian32672 · Aug 15, 2005

craigsub said:
ManManNM - You need to get more friendly. Or have a drink. If this is not possible, you can make up for it by sending ME a drink ... .

Sorry to say, but I agree with craig on this one...

craigsub · Aug 15, 2005

brian32672 said:
Sorry to say, but I agree with craig on this one...

Brian - I am glad you agree. MacMan - Brian thinks you should send me a drink, too. If computers were REALLY good, you could e-mail me a martini.

Which sub is better?

RJC

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