Is a used Denon DVD2900 worth it?

[supervij]

Hi everyone. If you look at my sig, you'll see my setup. I have a 27" 480i SDTV (still with absolutely gorgeous picture quality). I have a Yamaha RX-V750. And I have a Pioneer 588A universal player (paid about $125 US for it). And I have fallen in love with multi-channel music.

My Pioneer isn't bad at m/c at all. SACD, DVD-A, DTS music, and CD all sound very very nice. But I confess to being somewhat underwhelmed with SACD and DVD-A, and the lovely people on this forum informed me that my budget universal player is most likely the reason. In terms of video, I'm very happy with it, with the exception of the inability to pass blacker than black information. The inky black blobs on the screen are driving me nuts!

I have the opportunity of buying the discontinued (and barely used) Denon DVD2900 for around $435 US -- less, if this seller is willing to haggle.

Is the fact that this player is discontinued a problem, i.e., will Denon not release firmware upgrades/fixes? This guy hasn't said anything about the warranty situation, but since the player is discontinued, is this a problem?

Is this player is overkill considering my other equipment? Will I not notice any significant increase in picture quality for DVDs and audio quality for SACDs and DVD-As?

Will the 2900's crappy "chroma 3-2 alt" drive me nuts the way the 588A's crappy BTB drives me nuts? Is it more or less important in a DVD player?

Thanks for any advice/opinions you can offer!

cheers,
supervij

PS: I don't plan on upgrading my TV anytime soon, since I still get such beautiful pq. Because of this, I will likely not purchase any of the first generation HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players (and maybe not even the second!). But that's a whole other topic!

[Buckeyefan 1]

It's a nice dvd player. I'm a Denon guy, and I hate to do this, but check out the Oppo player. For $199, it's one of the best - period.
http://www.oppodigital.com/

[aarond]

Will the 2900's crappy "chroma 3-2 alt" drive me nuts the way the 588A's crappy BTB drives me nuts? Is it more or less important in a DVD player?

Thanks for any advice/opinions you can offer!

cheers,
supervij

PS: I don't plan on upgrading my TV anytime soon, since I still get such beautiful pq. Because of this, I will likely not purchase any of the first generation HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players (and maybe not even the second!). But that's a whole other topic!

supervij
how can the 3-2 alternating PROGRESSIVE flag issue have any effect on your system that doesn't support progressive scan?

[aarond]

It's a nice dvd player. I'm a Denon guy, and I hate to do this, but check out the Oppo player. For $199, it's one of the best - period.
http://www.oppodigital.com/

This player is only good if your using DVI. Its component output is junk

[supervij]

Buckeyefan, I should have mentioned that I'm looking for a universal player. The Oppo doesn't play SACDs, so I'm not considering it.

aarond, you're absolutely right. The reason I factored that in there was something that's mentioned in the benchmark tests: To be awarded the "480i award", the criteria is as follows -- 1. Must pass all CUE tests (does not include ICP); 2. Must pass or "borderline" all core video basics; 3. Layer change < 2 seconds; and 4. Responsiveness >= 3. In regards to number 1, I assumed that included Chroma 3-2 Film, Chroma 3-2 Alt and Chroma 2-2 Film, all of which are in the core video basics, not in the deinterlacing section. Should I not consider any of the chroma stuff when considering a DVD player for an interlaced screen? If so, then why do the benchmark guys put the chroma stuff in the core video basics section?

cheers,
supervij

[supervij]

Any other opinions about the Denon2900 for my current setup?

Pretty please?

cheers,
supervij

[enrique]

FWIW i just picked up a used dvd2200 considerably less than a used dvd2900.It it's a very fine player.The used dvd2900 i saw were always twice the price.

[j_garcia]

The 2200 and the 2900 both have CUE, because they both use the same deinterlacer, however, on a small CRT screen, you will be hard pressed to see it. ICP is more obvious to me than CUE is with my 2200 on my 34" WS CRT, and I have only noticed that once. Layer change on these players is among the best.

Now, your question was about the audio, and the answer to that is YES. It is a very good audio player. As Enrique said, the 2200 is no slouch either.

[supervij]

Congrats on the 2200 purchase, enrique! Hope you like it. The reason I'm asking about the 2900 is I know someone in my city who's selling his. I'm not convinced that the 2200 is all that much better than my Pioneer 588A with my current setup. Maybe it's a bit better, but I haven't seen a 2200 in my area for sale. So I'm concentrating on the 2900 for now. Thanks for your opinion though.

cheers,
supervij

[supervij]

j_garcia, thanks for your thoughts on the 2200 and the 2900. So you think audio-wise the difference will be noticeable. Cool. Regarding CUE and ICP, I'm afraid I'm not as knowledgeable in these areas. But do you think the 2900 is overkill video-wise for my setup? Will there be a noticeable difference?

Thanks so much!

cheers,
supervij

PS: Quick question for everyone -- should I not be considering the chroma 2-2, chroma 3-2 alt and chroma 3-2 film when considering a DVD player for an interlaced screen? The Benchmark seems to indicate yes, as they're part of the Core Video Basics section, but as was pointed out, they refer to progressive aspects of the picture.

[j_garcia]

If you are looking for the best audio performance, I would go with the 2900. I wouldn't worry about video at all, as it is an excellent video player.

I am not sure about about the other portion of your question, but it was my understanding as well that those things didn't matter when not using a progressive signal either.

[supervij]

Okay, cool. So you think it's worth it then. I'll look into it.

If anyone else wants to chime in, that'd still be great!

cheers,
supervij

[littleb]

I started out with the Pioneer 563A, which I still have in case the Denon DVD 2900 I purchased goes south on me. I have listened to SACD's on both and to tell you the truth to my untrained ears I really can't hear much difference. Would I purchase the Denon again? Probably not since I don't hear much difference. :eek:

[supervij]

Thanks, littleb. Sharing that little bit of experience, believe it or not, actually is a big help to me. :)

cheers,
supervij

[enrique]

What did you finally get.

[supervij]

I'm trying to haggle with the guy. He's asking $525 CDN ($435 US) and I offered $450 ($373 US). He hasn't responded yet, so we'll see. Money's a bit tight, so I'm not sure how much more I can offer. Donations cheerfully accepted! :D

cheers,
supervij

[enrique]

Those dvd2900's are so high in demand which is why i ended up getting the dvd2200 for less than half of what the 2900 would of cost.Would of loved the 2900 but i had to settle,and so far i havent regetted it.

[supervij]

enrique, I went to several electronics stores yesterday, and only one of them carried any Denon DVD players. And they had neither the 2900 nor the 2200. So when it comes to these two players, I seem to be limited to buying people's used gear.

Despite the fact that I really really want it, I am of two minds over this. I mean, I don't have an HDTV yet, but someday I will. Don't know when that'll be -- next year, or several years from now. So do I hold out for a player with HDMI or not? Arrggghhhh!!!!! I hate these debates I have with myself over these things.

Bottom line: If I can get the 2900 from this guy, great. If not, oh well, I'll have to live with my lack of blacker than black for a while longer.

cheers,
supervij

[j_garcia]

Both of those players are former models, replaced by the 2910 and 3910, so you will not find any new ones in retail stores.

I have a buddy who I recommended the 2200 to and he doesn't have a HDTV yet either. He said PQ was still improved with the 2200 over his older Panny player.

[supervij]

j_garcia, the stores I went to included smaller ones that sold discontinued items. For example, I remember seeing the Yamaha RX-V740 receiver at one of these shops, selling for roughly half the price of what I paid for the 750 several months ago (before the 750 itself was discontinued!). So it was just hope that led me to those places.

I have no problem with the 2200; it's just that, like I said, I'm limited to people's used stuff. The specs seem pretty close on the 2200 and my Pioneer 588A, though, so if it were around, I'd have a tougher time going with it.

Specs-wise, the 2900 seems a tiny wee bit better than the 2910: quicker response time and no image cropping. So if I can nab this guy's 2900, I'll be one happy kid!

cheers,
supervij

[Dan]

I did an extensive nonblinded AB comparison in a store with the 2900 and the comparably priced Pioneer about two years ago. I compared redbook and SACDs. I did not evaluate video. I felt the Denon had a better bass response than the Pioneer. Otherwise I heard no difference. The difference was slight to my ears but probably about as much as you could hear between any two players. Of course, the salesman said there was a tremendous difference! Anyway I have been very pleased with the audio for all formats and the video. I prefer the chip in the Denon to the Motorola chip in my B&K prepro but the difference is miniscule. I can't say exactly how I like it better, it may be that it has a slighly higher output in analog than digital and I am being fooled by the volume difference which was hard to correct.

I think you will be pleased but what will you do when bluray or whatever comes along? Good luck.

[supervij]

Hey Dan. Yeah, I know all about the early preparation for the new generation of players. But honestly, I doubt I'd purchase any of the first generation HD or Blu Ray players. Heck, I might not even purchase the second generation. I got into DVDs quite a bit later than most. (My dad still hasn't bought one! He keeps asking me which cheap one is a good one to buy. I give him my picks -- the Philips 642 was my most recent suggestion for him, and he sees the $90 CND price tag and says, "I'll wait for it to come on sale!" So you can see why it took so long for me to get into DVD!) And my first CD purchase wasn't until '89 or so! So I'm not terribly worried about any of these future technologies.

As for your comparison between the two players, I appreciate you recounting it for me! It's hearing stuff like this that gives me more info than any spec sheet could. Specs are one thing, but hearing it for oneself, I believe, is the best way to make a decision. Wish I could do an AB comparison myself, but I doubt this guy'd let me.

What "comparably priced Pioneer" was it that you heard? Cos the price difference between my Pioneer and the 2900 is huge: my 588A cost $150 CND while the original price tag on the 2900 was around $1900 CND!

At this point, I just want a reliable universal player that sounds great and gives great video. The universal players I've found in stores in my city, and what I've read/heard/found:

My 588A's lack of blacker than black is gradually driving me nuts.
The Samsung 841 is unreliable, as I've heard from people on this forum.
The Pioneer Elite 45A and 47A have too long a layer change and give low quality video.
The Integra 8.5 has an even longer layer change and also gives low quality video.
The Pioneer Elite 59A has too long a layer change.
The Denon 2910, 3910 and 5900 are just too pricey to buy new.

I'd say the same thing about the Denon 2900, but if this guy's willing to sell it for $450 CND, I kinda want to jump on it. Sigh. I have the sinking feeling he's sold it already. Oh well. Obsessing for nothing . . . that's what I do . . .

cheers,
supervij

[Dan]

Sorry, but I can't recall the model number. The closest equivalent now would be the Elite DV-45A. The models seem to have changed since about 18 months ago when I bought. I remember that it listed for about $950 US and was directly price competitive with the 2900 at that time.

My frustration with HD DVD is that I don't have room for another box. I don't want to drop a large amount on a good sounding universal player to play bluray and be left with a two year old universal paper weight. I've already played that game with a nonprogressive scan DVD for about $400 three and a half years ago that I had to replace when I went hi def.

I do think like you. I didn't even get a CD palyer until 1990. I think the price on bluray or whatever players will drop like a stone once enough hi def sets are out there.

The only strikes that I have about the 2900 are no DVI/HDMI which is probably not such a big deal and that with 5 channel SACD there is no time delay for the rear speakers since Sony is keeping this proprietary. I think the DenonLink gets around this. I usually prefer two chanel anyway...

Since Denon are so popular I read a lot of 2900 complaints about syncing etc. which I attributed to the large numbers of units sold. I have had no problems. But, if the price is too good to be true there may be a reason for it. Obviously, buyer beware.

[supervij]

Hey Dan, what if the new HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players aren't universal? That is, they don't play SACD and DVD-A? I haven't seen much info about that (although, granted, I haven't read all that much about the upcoming players anyway). If they aren't universal, then your current uni is still good. With all the confusion about what the capabilities of the new players, I'm just not that worried. Prices may drop when the big companies feel there are enough hi def TVs in people's homes, but even then, we might still be waiting for them to iron out certain kinks or include various things we deem necessary. That could be years and years away. So again, ain't too worried.

I have no problem with a lack of time delay on the rear speakers. I've got them on speaker stands that are easily moveable. I set 'em up the way the want depending on what I wanna listen to. Easy peasy.

The guy's price may be too good to be true, you're right. The unit is discontinued, so I expect a drop in asking price. It's been used (only ten hours or so, he claims, but still), so again I expect a drop in asking price. He's getting rid of it because he's now using an HTPC. I appreciate the caution, though.

cheers,
supervij

[indcrimdefense]

I have a 2910, and have no clue what the differences between my unit & a 2900. I purchased it primarily as an upgrade from a nakamichi cd player that is 15 years old, and for SACD & DVDA. Redbook CD playback has been good, but no real earthshaking difference from the nak. Was not the improvement I had hoped for. This is not really a criticism of the 2910, more an affirmation of my nak's quality. The nak is currently in another system so needed a new cde player anyway. DVD video playback is great, but really have nothing to compare it to, as I primarily listen to music. DVDA still not that excited about, but only have 3 DVDA, Sting Sacred Love which was a disappointment, Sting Nothing Like the Sun which was ok but never had on redbook cd so really cant compare & Diana Krall Love Scenes, which is good but again cant compare to redbook. SACD playback is what has really impressed me, but seems highly dependent on the recording. Diana Krall's Girl in the Other Room sounds fantastic, but it also sounds great as a redbook (hybrid disc). Dvorak's New World Symphony was a disappointment, but ends up it's only a 3 channel recording, & I lack a center channel as I'm waiting on my center channel speaker to come in. Will add that I don't like the composition as well as the same symphony from another orchestra/conductor, so this may have something to do with it.

I have also demoed the Rotel 1072 CD player, which gets great reviews, & could not tell a difference, or any difference I heard I prefered the 2910.

[JES14]

Hello, new here. But I think I just bought the unit you're discussing. He was asking $525, was not very flexible on price but I took it home for $500CDN. Auditioned it over the weekend and very happy so far!! Great unit for the price, now I just need to pick up a few SACD's. BTW, it's replacing a Toshiba SD5700 which has worked very well for me.

[supervij]

B*st*rd! Stealing my deal from under me! ;)

No, to be honest, I'm glad you got it for the price you wanted. I just wasn't willing to pay that much for it, but it's good to know it works great for you.

To tell the truth, I lost interest in the 2900 when I started reading about Sony's new 1080p SXRD TVs. I want one so bad! But if I were to go with one of those, I'd want a DVD player with HDMI, and the 2900 doesn't have it, so I sorta lost interest in it.

I've got some SACDs and DVD-As, so feel free to invite me over sometime to listen to your new player (and hear what I lost out on)! ;)

cheers,
supervij

[j_garcia]

I'll let you know my thoughts too. I just scored a deal on a 2900 trade + cash for my 2200... :) My TV has DVI, but it already looks amazing via component, so I'm not worried about upgrading to a player that uses DVI soon. The 3910 is still a bit pricey for me too.

[supervij]

Moot for me obviously! :p

I don't think I'm gonna try to run after another deal like this one. The truth is my 588A isn't bad at all. Sure, the lack of blacker than black drives me bonkers, but all in all, it's a damn fine player. I had a few friends over this past weekend, and they wanted to hear what SACD sounded like, so I put on "Money" from Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. The look of amazement on their faces, along with the choruses of "Wow!" was very cool, and pleasing to this HT-obsessed nutjob. :D

Hey j_garcia, congrats on your upgrade, by the way! Glad to hear yours looks awesome as well.

cheers,
supervij

[enrique]

I have that same sacd(DSOM) and money is fantastic on my dvd2200.Hint?
All kidding aside you can still try and get a dvd2200 which in my opinion now that i have one is a very fine player.After reading some other posts my understanding its very comparible/close to the 2900 performance wise.It just may be built better(2900),and once it's in the rack you aint going to touch it much anyways.You can probably find one for less than 1/2 of what a 2900 would cost.

[JES14]

LOL...It was kinda funny to see the heading of this thread right after I just bought one. Even stranger to realize it was the same player. I don't blame you for sticking to your price level, it is a little expensive for a used source. I have been drooling over the 2910 since it came out, would love to see how the HDMI output would look on my set. But the cheapest I could find one was for around $900CDN. I have also been looking for a 2200 and almost bought one for $600 when the 2910 came out. Glad I waited. I decided not to bother with a player with HDMI output right now as my tv only has one HDMI input, which is being used by the cable box.

[j_garcia]

Moot for me obviously! :p

I don't think I'm gonna try to run after another deal like this one. The truth is my 588A isn't bad at all. Sure, the lack of blacker than black drives me bonkers, but all in all, it's a damn fine player. I had a few friends over this past weekend, and they wanted to hear what SACD sounded like, so I put on "Money" from Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. The look of amazement on their faces, along with the choruses of "Wow!" was very cool, and pleasing to this HT-obsessed nutjob. :D

Hey j_garcia, congrats on your upgrade, by the way! Glad to hear yours looks awesome as well.

cheers,
supervij

DSOTM is one of my favorite SACDs :cool:

The guy says he doesn't want the trade now if he can get cash, so I just put the 2200 up in the for sale area if you're interested. :)

[supervij]

Thanks for the heads up, j_garcia. I think the 2200 is better than the 588A, but not better enough to warrant me picking it up, at least not while my 588A is still up and running.

cheers,
supervij

[cjtalbot]

Hey all,

Not sure if the person who started the thread is still interested in the 2900..but I'll post my experience on this subject regardless...

I'm running a Marantz 8500 as a pre/pro and than Marantz 6100's for my L/R/C and a NAD 270 for my surrounds (JMLab Chours 700 for L/C/R/ and Maggie MMGs for the sourrounds)

I have a normal 32" CRT (JVC) and it's about 5 years old and still has a great PQ. Right now I'm using the Pioneer 588 myself, for all CDs, DVDs, SACDs and DVD-As, all of which I have a few (maybe 20 DVD-A and SACDS combined).

I've also demo'd the Marantz 6500 Universal, and the Denon 2900 from a local audio shop.

First - on my normal old CRT - I'm not able to see any major difference in PQ from DVDs...on a HDTV I'm pretty sure the Denon would trump the others.

Now - on to audio quality (which is how I enjoy the sytem 90% of the time).

First - The Denon is a MUCH heavier and seemingly better built unit, and weighs at least 10lbs more than the Marantz 6500 (15lbs vs 5lbs..)

Both of the units put my Pioneer 588 to shame in regard to the high res formats - DVD-A and SACD, with SACD from the Denon being about as good as my system has ever sounded. Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" SACD was the base line for comparing all the systems (to keep it simple for me) and while it was nice on the 588, on the Marantz it opened up the sound stage, improved imaging and brought all aspects up a notch. The Denon 2900 provided the same upgrade in all of those aspects, plus a notch in the overall tonality of the sound.

Bottom line - I really like my 588 (for the money...it's an UNREAL player..) but the Marantz was a huge step up and the Denon took it to another level all together.

So now I'm saving a few bucks up to purchase a Denon 2900 (used for hopefully around $440 US) in a few months or so...

Just my 2 cents - and I'll add that I'm pretty biased toward Marantz equipment -

C

[rgriffin25]

Thanks for the heads up, j_garcia. I think the 2200 is better than the 588A, but not better enough to warrant me picking it up, at least not while my 588A is still up and running.

cheers,
supervij

I am glad to read that you are happy with your 588A. In my experience, (I have had both the pioneer and the Denon 2200) the Denon is in a different league. The video quality is better, the MC audio is better and the 2200's build quality is far better than the pioneer. If you can find a good price on the 2200, go for it. I doubt you will be disappointed.

You might want to check out Denon's new models as well. The DVD-1920 has MC audio and HDMI with a suggested retail of $349. Denon DVD (http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/products.asp?l=1&c=4)

[supervij]

cjtalbot, are you trying to make me cry? Cos you post a message like that, and the only thing I can do after reading it, pretty much, is to weep like a little girl. Not that I'm bitter! ;) :p

rgriffin, I'll be keeping an eye out on my local stores for the 1920. Unfortunately, Denon has chosen not to release the 1920 in Canada (I'm in Toronto) just yet. And the ever-cautious part of me wants to wait until it shows up in the Benchmark tests, just to see what those rigourous tests reveal. I assume it would be just slightly inferior to the 2200, but I'd still rather wait for the Benchmark, and to see for how much Canadian retailers will be selling it.

I know the 2200 is better video-wise, but on my puny 27" SD CRT, I'm not sure I'd see much difference anyway. And the miser in me would rather not buy anything (particular such pricey players) until absolutely necessary. But you never know. If I find a good deal, I just might.

As much as your posts are killing me, cjtalbot and rgriffin, thanks for giving me your opinion on these players. Much appreciated.

cheers,
supervij

[j_garcia]

I spent the weekend sujectively comparing the 2900 to my 2200. Audio-wise, I don't hear a $450 MSRP difference between them to be honest. The 2900 does have more detail and a bit more depth, but it still does not seem to quite have the same level of clarity of my 222ES, most noticable in the highs during soft passages.

Video-wise (which I had never actually compared), the 2900 has much better black levels, but color calibration check showed no change in color settings at all. The deeper black level seems to give more contrast to most material and yeilds a more pleasing presentation. Film based movies have a smoother look to them, but IMO, the difference is not so dramatic that I wouldn't be happy with my 2200.

[enrique]

Talking about the dvd2200,dont mean to intrude but maybe someone can help me out.I lost power during hurricane katrina,my power just came back yesterday.I checked my equipment and everything works fine except the dvd2200.It powers up fine but will not play anything.Dvd's,dvda,sacd nada.the disply shows no play when i try to play any type of disc.I tried unplugging still nothing works.How do i reset it to see if this would work.Any help would be appreciated.

[ht_addict]

Talking about the dvd2200,dont mean to intrude but maybe someone can help me out.I lost power during hurricane katrina,my power just came back yesterday.I checked my equipment and everything works fine except the dvd2200.It powers up fine but will not play anything.Dvd's,dvda,sacd nada.the disply shows no play when i try to play any type of disc.I tried unplugging still nothing works.How do i reset it to see if this would work.Any help would be appreciated.

Not quite sure how too do the reset, but checkout this page(http://www.audioholics.com/firmware/index.php). Upgrading the firmware will reset the unit.

On another note I bought my Denon 2900 new in box for $850CDN. My dealer only had two units left with one being an open box. PQ/SQ is top notch and I feel this is the unit too last me till HD players get all the problems worked out. I also added an extended warranty to the unit just because I don't plan on upgrading anytime soon.