1080p - What's the best route?

[millerbrad]

I've been scouting the Internet, trying to find the perfect TV for my new house once I get it built (luckily, I have about 8 months before I plan on making my purchase). I'd like to get a TV that will last me for years to come, so I'm leaning toward anthing that's 1080p. The TV is going into a main-floor living room with full lighting, and I don't necessarily want to darken the room every time I turn on the tube.

I play video games, and plan on installing a HTPC if and when they ever support HDMI/CableCard. So, I think that plasma, with its burn-in issues, will be out of the question.

So basically, in my head, my choices are narrowed to LCD vs. DLP.

With LCD, I'm a bit discouraged with the selection of larger-sized screens. I really like the technology and performance in daytime lighting conditions, but I'm underwhelmed by the (relatively) small screens and high prices. Moreover, I've heard rumors (which have more-or-less been confirmed after reading the owner's manual) that Sharp's 45" LC-45GD6U AQUOS "1080p" is actually 1080i and won't accept a 1080p source. I've also heard that the Samsung 46" LT-P468W has already been dumped from manufacturing.

I've been impressed with what I've seen and heard about the new 1080p DLP RPTVs & LCOS-TVs, but am a bit worried about the bulb-life & bulb prices. I guess I can get a warranty that covers bulbs, but do I really want to wait a month for a warranty-replacement bulb? At roughly $300 a bulb, I feel like I'd almost be financially better off buying the biggest, baddest LCD available when I get around to my purchase.

On to my actual questions...

For those of you with DLP's, how long have the bulbs actually lasted in your sets? I've heard the theoretical "bulbs usually last 1-2 years", but I've had trouble finding actual lifespans from people who actually own these sets. If the bulb blows in under a year, is it typically due to "abuse conditions" (poor ventilation, temperature fluctuations, extremely extended view-times)? Is there anything I can do to extend the lifespan of a DLP bulb (On most days, the TV is on about 6 hours per day from 5pm-11pm)?

And finally, has anyone heard of any larger 1080p LCD's planned for U.S. release in the next 8 months or so? Anything else I should keep an eye open for?

[brian32672]

Here is a thread on bulb life. Granted this thread is mainly for front projectors. And a RPTV will have longer lifes.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12218&highlight=bulb+life

[millerbrad]

Yep.. I saw that thread. Unfortunately, the only person listed with an RPTV was less than pleased with the performance (mind you, his first bulb would have made it about 2 years in my home, based on the hours usage he listed).

Maybe the RPTVs just haven't been around long enough to provide many bulb life reports. Although, I guess it's encouraging to hear that the RPTVs have longer lives.

[Duffinator]

I'm pretty sure Sharp has announced 55" and/or 65" sets that are on their way this fall $$$. The 45" with the external box is capable of taking a direct 1080P input but you need to get an external splitter (or something else?) between the panel and the AVC to connect both inputs. The AVC outputs 1080P after all inputs have been converted/scanned to 1080P so the actual input to the set is 1080P! Read this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=459511&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

There was a recent review of the Sharp 45" by widescreenreview dot com and much to my surprise they really liked it. In the past they have complained about other LCD's black levels.

I still think the Sharp 45" is the way to go but I agree that it's not big enough. But the bigger sets are coming. :D

[Aliixer]

I have had my panasonic plasma tv for about three years. Every morning CNN on with the ticker. The set is basically on all weekend with either video games or dvd's and the occasional party I play a fish aquarium setting with music. Have yet to see burn in.

So I don't think burn in is a thing to worry about, granted you purchase a quality plasma screen.

[millerbrad]

Maybe when I finally buy, there'll be a 55" Aquos that doesn't need "hacks" to accept 1080p source? And if I could get it at a $5k (or lower) price-point, then that'd be an added bonus. :rolleyes:

And if there was a big, fat Panny plasma with native 1080p resolution that I was 100% protected from burn-in with, maybe I'd reconsider and go that way.

[Snap]

I am not sure if the New Sony LCD's that are comming this Fall will do 1080P but they have 40 inch and 45 inch that is very well priced comming. The 40 inch XBR LCD retail price is $4449

There have been good reviews on the Samsung DLP that does 1080P.

[evhudsons]

I crack up whenever I see someone going for a screen in inches because a projector bulb is too expensive when replaced every two years. Hmmm, $300, so $150 a year, or $12.50 a month. That is not out of my budget, $12.50 a month. and my screen is my entire wall, almost as nice as IMAX. I simply bought a DLP sharp projector, no rainbow effects, and by replacing the bulb I have essentially a new projector. The rainbow wheel prevents any deteriation of picture quality.
I'm not saying that a front projector is for everyone, as you must take into consideration lighting, wife, etc..., but don't give up a phenomenol experience over bulb price. In fact, when your LCD tv gets those annoying pixel burns of odd colors that can't be fixed, you might be wishing you had gone dlp. And for plasma, they simply lose their luster over time. As long as I keep replacing my bulb, then I have a far superior product, and the pixelation is far, far, far, far superior to LCD with the screen door effect. My picture is about 9feet wide and 5 foot height. I adjust all the time for anamorphic, 4:3, 16:9 etc...and high def is just mind boggling.
The comcast guy wouldn't leave my couch, and my windows were open letting in light. When I closed them a little, he just stared in awe. He installs hidef in plasmas and lcd's all the time. Another friend came over and actually said "it's easier on the eyes" because it was large, and being a wall, had no glare! he just kept saying over and over that he's never seen anything like it in his life! My old 56" rptv had glare, and people kept saying that it was hard to watch unless you sat way back.
I researched for months, and debated over size, lighting, rainbow, lcd crispness, everything. I read and read. I bought a sharp xv-z2000 dlp 720p native, and can't say anything negative at all about it. I spent under $3000, got a mount and spare bulb, 4 year warranty, and am addicted to movies, games, and hidef disovery, and pbs.
Tonight comes the real test,
Monday Night Football in Hi -def 5.1 surround sound.
There are many reasons to choose LCD or LYcos, or crt rptv rather than a dlp front projector,
but don't make bulb cost that much of a factor if that' how you choose because,
if you can't afford $12.50 a month, you shouldn't be buying a high end TV in the first place.
I hope this helps,
and by the way, I'm not using a screen, just a clean painted white wall. A screen doesn't look right unless you have the picture one size all the time. I change it depending on my source, and by day it looks like a simple living room with nice speakers.
later,
gotta check the latest on netflix

[Buckle-meister]

...by the way, I'm not using a screen, just a clean painted white wall. A screen doesn't look right unless you have the picture one size all the time. I change it depending on my source, and by day it looks like a simple living room with nice speakers.

I don't use a screen either, and I agree; it's nice to have just a normal looking room with the speakers alone.

But I should add that I doubt that anyone would disagree that a dedicated screen, whilst perhaps not looking perfect for the various picture sizes that will be displayed upon it, will noticeably improve the picture as compared to projecting upon a regular white wall.

Regards

[brian32672]

I don't use a screen either, and I agree; it's nice to have just a normal looking room with the speakers alone.

But I should add that I doubt that anyone would disagree that a dedicated screen, whilst perhaps not looking perfect for the various picture sizes that will be displayed upon it, will noticeably improve the picture as compared to projecting upon a regular white wall.

Regards

He made some very good points Buckle. And I agree with you, I have tried it on a freshly (3 months) painted wall. And with a manul screen and with the electric screen. The electric screen IMO is the way to go, unless you have a dedicated HT. And even then, by having a electric screen-its easier for masking. I guess thinking about it in inches is kinda funny. So mine is about 8' x 6'

[Buckle-meister]

...by having a electric screen-its easier for masking.

Why is this? I am quite curious because ideally, I'd like my own screen (when I eventually get one) to have only the white/grey area the size of whatever aspect ratio picture I am projecting (typically 16:9 ;) )

Regards

[brian32672]

Why is this? I am quite curious because ideally, I'd like my own screen (when I eventually get one) to have only the white/grey area the size of whatever aspect ratio picture I am projecting (typically 16:9 ;) )

Regards

Well my screen casing is black and I have a 2" black border around screen. So sides will always be the same for me. Then the bottom I just bring screen up to image of picture with my 2" border. So the only thing I have to mask is the top. Because when screen must go up for smaller 16:9 material the top border will be up inside casing. Humm, I wonder if I am writing this correctly. Would be easier to explain in person or over the phone. I do hate typing.....

[Buckle-meister]

I do hate typing.....

Sorry to keep forcing you to do so :o , but does masking add significantly to the price of a screen? Can any screen be masked, or has the screen material got to be specified for this at the outset?

Regards

[brian32672]

Any screen can be masked. But buying a screen with an already 2" black border will help quite a bit....

[brian32672]

I crack up whenever I see someone going for a screen in inches because a projector bulb is too expensive when replaced every two years. Hmmm, $300, so $150 a year, or $12.50 a month. That is not out of my budget, $12.50 a month. and my screen is my entire wall, almost as nice as IMAX. I simply bought a DLP sharp projector, no rainbow effects, and by replacing the bulb I have essentially a new projector. The rainbow wheel prevents any deteriation of picture quality.
I'm not saying that a front projector is for everyone, as you must take into consideration lighting, wife, etc..., but don't give up a phenomenol experience over bulb price. In fact, when your LCD tv gets those annoying pixel burns of odd colors that can't be fixed, you might be wishing you had gone dlp. And for plasma, they simply lose their luster over time. As long as I keep replacing my bulb, then I have a far superior product, and the pixelation is far, far, far, far superior to LCD with the screen door effect. My picture is about 9feet wide and 5 foot height. I adjust all the time for anamorphic, 4:3, 16:9 etc...and high def is just mind boggling.
The comcast guy wouldn't leave my couch, and my windows were open letting in light. When I closed them a little, he just stared in awe. He installs hidef in plasmas and lcd's all the time. Another friend came over and actually said "it's easier on the eyes" because it was large, and being a wall, had no glare! he just kept saying over and over that he's never seen anything like it in his life! My old 56" rptv had glare, and people kept saying that it was hard to watch unless you sat way back.
I researched for months, and debated over size, lighting, rainbow, lcd crispness, everything. I read and read. I bought a sharp xv-z2000 dlp 720p native, and can't say anything negative at all about it. I spent under $3000, got a mount and spare bulb, 4 year warranty, and am addicted to movies, games, and hidef disovery, and pbs.
Tonight comes the real test,
Monday Night Football in Hi -def 5.1 surround sound.
There are many reasons to choose LCD or LYcos, or crt rptv rather than a dlp front projector,
but don't make bulb cost that much of a factor if that' how you choose because,
if you can't afford $12.50 a month, you shouldn't be buying a high end TV in the first place.
I hope this helps,
and by the way, I'm not using a screen, just a clean painted white wall. A screen doesn't look right unless you have the picture one size all the time. I change it depending on my source, and by day it looks like a simple living room with nice speakers.
later,
gotta check the latest on netflix

I really have to second this advice. Some very valid points :) :)

[Buckle-meister]

Any screen can be masked. But buying a screen with an already 2" black border will help quite a bit....

Thanks mate.

I was just taking a look at the link you posted to Reference System 3 in Member Systems. I really like the look of fixed frame screens with the deep even black border all around, but I also like the thought of 'rolling it up' after watching a film via an electric screen. Time will tell, but although more expensive, I suspect the motorized screen will end up being the winner. :cool:

No need to respond. :)

Regards

[brian32672]

The original reason I went with the electric screen is it covers both of my sliding glass patio doors perfectly. The thing with even good manual screens is that they lock in about 1/2" to 1/4" intervals. So its hard to get the border right up to the image. With the electric you can stop it right at the perfect spot. My screen came with 2 remotes 1 RF and 1 IR remote. Also comes with the on wall controller.

[brian32672]

The original reason I went with the electric screen is it covers both of my sliding glass patio doors perfectly. The thing with even good manual screens is that they lock in about 1/2" to 1/4" intervals. So its hard to get the border right up to the image. With the electric you can stop it right at the perfect spot. My screen came with 2 remotes 1 RF and 1 IR remote. Also comes with the on wall controller.

Also note that most screens today have a all black backing. So light will not come through. So its great to block out light over a window, or in some cases like me, block out 2 glass doors.

[Buckle-meister]

Very good Brian32672. Well done. One green chicklet coming up...'Please tip scale if good post.' notwithstanding :rolleyes:

Regards

[soundsfine]

Back on the topic of LCDs...

Syntax is supposed to release a 1080p 42-inch model (LT42HVE) sometime this year. If past performance is an indicator, it will be priced lower than the competitors.

[Duffinator]

Back on the topic of LCDs...

Syntax is supposed to release a 1080p 42-inch model (LT42HVE) sometime this year. If past performance is an indicator, it will be priced lower than the competitors.And it's performance won't be as good either. I've been looking at them as well and while the price point is compelling the Sharp's just look a lot better to me. And the prices keep coming down.

Others, this post is about flat panel and RPTV's not projector and how well a screen works over a painted wall. EVH's point was don't make a decision over replacing bulbs. ;)

[Buckle-meister]

Others, this post is about flat panel and RPTV's not projector and how well a screen works over a painted wall. EVH's point was don't make a decision over replacing bulbs. ;)

Nothing wrong with a small tangent; it happens on many threads a lot of the time. Besides, I'm finished now. :)

Regards

[brian32672]

how well a screen works over a painted wall. EVH's point was don't make a decision over replacing bulbs. ;)

I agree Duff. But EVH did leave this statement open for others to see.

and by the way, I'm not using a screen, just a clean painted white wall. A screen doesn't look right unless you have the picture one size all the time. I change it depending on my source, and by day it looks like a simple living room with nice speakers.

Sorry to hijack the thread (for original poster)
I guess me and Buckle should have just PM'ed each other after the first mention of screens.

But back to EVH's post. It is correct to say, RP or FP either way. Both will require bulb changes. RearP. is known to last last longer. Possible because there is a better cooling solution for a larger box, also surely they do not need to be as bright as a F-projector since the screen is only 8" away. However if bulb replacement is an issue, then LCD or Plasma may be better. (granted this is just seconding anothers opinion)

[Duffinator]

Sorry to hijack the thread (for original poster)
I guess me and Buckle should have just PM'ed each other after the first mention of screens.It's not like I've ever hijacked a thread before. ;) Just wanted to further the discussion of LCD FLAT PANELS, one of my favorite subjects. :)

[millerbrad]

I'm totally offended that this thread was hijacked.... ;)

I guess in my head, I want a set that will last me as long as possible. I've been using the same el-cheapo 27" Philips-Magnavox CRT (that cost me less than the price of one DLP bulb replacement :) ) for the last decade, as I've moved from apartment to apartment to house. I'd hope that my next TV also lasts at least 10 years.

The cost of DLP bulbs isn't enough to make me not buy DLP/LCoS. Still, depending on bulb lives of 6 months to 2 years, I could be spending anywhere from $1,500-6,000 on bulbs over those ten years, so it's just something I factor in when comparing apples-to-apples while I price shop. If anything made me choose LCD over DLP, it'd be better performance without glare in daytime lighting. I know dead pixels can be a problem with LCD, but wonder how visible a dead pixel at 1080p would be...

As I'd mentioned. I'll be watching TV in a well-lit living room where I won't want to be dimming the lights. While I guess that I could manage a FPTV in those conditions, I wouldn't think it'd be pretty. If I were building a home theater in my basement, then I'd say that FPTV would easily be my first choice.

I've seen some rumblings about a 55" LG 1080p LCD being released anytime now. Any thoughts on the quality of the LG sets? (maybe a tough question, given that there aren't any other LG 1080p's to compare to yet)

[Duffinator]

I know dead pixels can be a problem with LCD, but wonder how visible a dead pixel at 1080p would be...

I've seen some rumblings about a 55" LG 1080p LCD being released anytime now. Any thoughts on the quality of the LG sets? (maybe a tough question, given that there aren't any other LG 1080p's to compare to yet)I don't think dead pixels is much of a concern with the current generation of LCD panels. The construction process has gotten a lot better in the current manufacturing plants and I haven't seen or heard of this problem in the past couple of years.

LG/Phillips is the second largest manufacturer of LCD panels in the world and their glass is as good as anyone's. Thye OEM the panels for many LCD's out there including Syntax. Their latest sets look terrific and I wouldn't think twice about purchasing one. Any idea of when that set is supposed to hit the streets? I haven't heard much about it in the past few months, or the Sharp's for that matter.

[brian32672]

I don't think dead pixels is much of a concern with the current generation of LCD panels. The construction process has gotten a lot better in the current manufacturing plants and I haven't seen or heard of this problem in the past couple of years.

Humm, is this the case more-so on LCD tv's. Over LCD monitors? Just curious, I know that they are in 2 classes, and the A class must have 0 to 1 dead pixel. And the lower classes can have up to 30 dead pixels??
Granted I am not a LCD buff.

[Duffinator]

Humm, is this the case more-so on LCD tv's. Over LCD monitors? Just curious, I know that they are in 2 classes, and the A class must have 0 to 1 dead pixel. And the lower classes can have up to 30 dead pixels??
Granted I am not a LCD buff.From personal experience, having two LCD monitors at home, two at work, plus hundreds of others of my co-workers I don't see any dead pixels. Plus reading financial reports on companies and technologies, plus reading lcd tv reviews it just doesn't come up anymore. I used to hear about it all the time but it seems to be a dead (pun intended) issue. I've seen burn-in issues on commercial plasma monitors and I'd be much more concerned about that than one or two dead pixels out of over 2 million on an LCD panel. But that's just me and my bias towards LCD. :eek:

[brian32672]

Yea, it just sucks that my Sony LCD monitor has 2 dead pixels. And they won't do an exchange unless there are 5 or more....

[goodman]

[QUOTE=millerbrad]
For those of you with DLP's, how long have the bulbs actually lasted in your sets? I've heard the theoretical "bulbs usually last 1-2 years", but I've had trouble finding actual lifespans from people who actually own these sets. If the bulb blows in under a year, is it typically due to "abuse conditions" (poor ventilation, temperature fluctuations, extremely extended view-times)? Is there anything I can do to extend the lifespan of a DLP bulb (On most days, the TV is on about 6 hours per day from 5pm-11pm)?/QUOTE]
I've had a Sharp XV-9000U mounted on my ceiling for three years with the original bulb at 1150 hours. The ceiling mount is preferred, imo, because it keeps the projector out of harm's way. The room is air conditioned, but I take no special precautions and keep the projector running for hours on end without concern.

[djoxygen]

From personal experience, having two LCD monitors at home, two at work, plus hundreds of others of my co-workers I don't see any dead pixels. Plus reading financial reports on companies and technologies, plus reading lcd tv reviews it just doesn't come up anymore. I used to hear about it all the time but it seems to be a dead (pun intended) issue. I've seen burn-in issues on commercial plasma monitors and I'd be much more concerned about that than one or two dead pixels out of over 2 million on an LCD panel. But that's just me and my bias towards LCD. :eek:

Much of the time, you can't even see a dead pixel unless you actually go looking for it. I checked out my Apple LCD and my GF's LCD iMac just before their warranties expired. There are many combinations of ways in which pixels can be stuck or dead. Stuck on or off matrixed with stuck red, blue, or green. The iMac had 3 or 4 (not enough to qualify for a replacement) but in normal usage, I am hard-pressed to spot them. Only when I put up various solid colors across the whole screen can I ID them all. Movies and TV generally have more moving content than computer activity so a non-moving pixel might be more noticable in an HT setup, but I agree with Duff-man that it's just not that big an issue anymore.

Personally, though, I like RP DLP over RP LCD because of the richer blacks. A good friend has a 42" 720p-native Sony RP LCD and too much light gets through the "chip" for my taste.

[brian32672]

Much of the time, you can't even see a dead pixel unless you actually go looking for it.

Yea, but my 2 are about 4" from each other and are in the middle of the screen, very easy to see. And they are locked color of blue.

[Duffinator]

The other issue is your sit 18" away from your computer monitor and much further away when watching a larger screen TV. Still hard to beat a CRT based set for black levels and overall PQ. I think LCD panels, or some derivative of LCD, will be the dominate display device 5 to 10 years from now.

Brian, have you tried gently rubbing the glass at that spot?

[millerbrad]

Brian, have you tried gently rubbing the glass at that spot?

Or maybe just drop it on the floor a few times and see if you can get enough dead pixels to have that warranty honored... :p

[millerbrad]

I don't think dead pixels is much of a concern with the current generation of LCD panels. The construction process has gotten a lot better in the current manufacturing plants and I haven't seen or heard of this problem in the past couple of years.

LG/Phillips is the second largest manufacturer of LCD panels in the world and their glass is as good as anyone's. Thye OEM the panels for many LCD's out there including Syntax. Their latest sets look terrific and I wouldn't think twice about purchasing one. Any idea of when that set is supposed to hit the streets? I haven't heard much about it in the past few months, or the Sharp's for that matter.

You mentioned quality issues with the Syntax panels a little earlier in the thread. Would this carry through to LG? Or is it just Syntax doing something to drop the ball rather than LG?

Last I'd heard, the 55" LG was supposed to hit Japan this month. No clue when it makes it to the States.

...or if it really accepts a 1080p source.

[Duffinator]

You mentioned quality issues with the Syntax panels a little earlier in the thread. Would this carry through to LG? Or is it just Syntax doing something to drop the ball rather than LG?

Last I'd heard, the 55" LG was supposed to hit Japan this month. No clue when it makes it to the States.

...or if it really accepts a 1080p source.I don't think it's the panel, it's Syntax dropping the ball. Their new sets, either HVI or HVS models, are supposed to be much better. But they aren't out yet or at least I haven't seen one yet.

I don't think they will accept 1080P inputs but we can always hope.

[brian32672]

The other issue is your sit 18" away from your computer monitor and much further away when watching a larger screen TV. Still hard to beat a CRT based set for black levels and overall PQ. I think LCD panels, or some derivative of LCD, will be the dominate display device 5 to 10 years from now.

Brian, have you tried gently rubbing the glass at that spot?

Actually while the PJ is packed away, I have been using it (LCD) as my tv to watch dvd's. And I sit about 5 1/2 feet away. Funny huh. I mean, damn I have a PJ with a 120" screen. But because of all the work at the condo, there was to much sanding going on. So I did not want dust in the PJ. As far as the rubbing, I have tried. But never figured that it would work. Uhm, sorry no deal. Actually rubbed quite hard (now those 2 words in one line Rubbed & Hard :eek: ) The other idea of drop kicking it has crossed my mind. But the main use it gets is just for when I play my MP3's on the DVD player. I will not fire up the PJ, just so I can see a list of songs. If you are wondering, yes my dvd player has a vga out....

[e73bass]

So does anyone know if this 55" LCD from LG will have the built in DVR Recorder. They have a 50" and 60" plasma with them in them. Also they
introduced a 71" Plasma (non-DVR) with a HD display (1920 X 1020)

I may be interested in this LG display----worried about quality of LG though as compared to Hitachi. Thinking about the 55" director series plasma from
Hitachi.

[REWJR]

"I think LCD panels, or some derivative of LCD, will be the dominate display device 5 to 10 years from now."

Yes this technology is the future of flat panel display SED -

http://www.engadget.com/entry/5732841184005838/

As for RPTV 1080P why not look at JVC LCOS -

http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL026746&pathId=114

I have heard that there is a 30% price reduction just announced :)

[millerbrad]

So, the recurring theme with 1080p panels seems to be that they don't actually accept a 1080p source. That's a bummer for those of us who might want to play their PS3 in its supposed full glory.

I know there's the workaround to get 1080p into the 45" Aquos LCD (see Duffinator's post earlier in this thread). Does anyone know of any other televisions that are out there which can actually accept 1080p?

[djoxygen]

So, the recurring theme with 1080p panels seems to be that they don't actually accept a 1080p source. That's a bummer for those of us who might want to play their PS3 in its supposed full glory.

I know there's the workaround to get 1080p into the 45" Aquos LCD (see Duffinator's post earlier in this thread). Does anyone know of any other televisions that are out there which can actually accept 1080p?

It may not actually matter in the end. Yesterday I was reading the spec sheets on the new 1080p-capable Mitsu DLPs. The HDMI inputs are listed as taking up to 1080i, and the lit says they scale that up to 1080p and I started pondering this question again.

As I believe we have discussed elsewhere in reference to BD/HD-DVD, it is mathematically possible to exactly reconstruct 1080p from 1080i, if the original source was 1080p. Although it seems counter-intuitive, and I no longer have the knowledge in the cobwebs of my grey matter, the math works. This may not be the case any more, but in earlier days of DVD most, if not all, progressive-scan players used the same interlaced MPEG decoders as non-progressive players. They just had another chip that de-interlaced the digital data stream.

Once you go analog, you lose the ability to do that, but in the digital domain, it is not just possible, but not really all that difficult.

Given that MPEG-2/4 content is inherently non-interlaced, it should be the case that if your 1080i link from source to monitor is DVI or HDMI, the monitor should be able to reconstruct a picture that is mathematically equivalent to the original 1080p.

All that said, some of the Mitsus also have VGA inputs that will take a 1920x1080p analog signal.

[RLA]

Hello All
I hope manufactures have lots of 1080p displays at CEDIA
If so I will give all a report on current product quality. I have viewed a few already and was less than impressed. Some of the 720p displays I have looked much better but that may change with different content

Just keep in mind that resolution is not everything, optics and light engines play a significant role in image quality. My advice is to wait a few more weeks before purchasing. We have more Info. There may be more 1080p displays shipping aground the 3rd quarter of this year. 720p displays are bound to drop in price. Either way you will benefit

[djoxygen]

Given that MPEG-2/4 content is inherently non-interlaced, it should be the case that if your 1080i link from source to monitor is DVI or HDMI, the monitor should be able to reconstruct a picture that is mathematically equivalent to the original 1080p.

Well, according to http://www.allformp3.com/dvd-faqs/140.htm DVDs are interlaced. Doesn't match my experience with MPEG-2/4 files, but I'm not on the DVD Studio Pro programming team, so what do I know? Anyway, they don't get into the math, but it does back up my understanding that progressive video can be reconstructed from interlaced.

[Duffinator]

It may not actually matter in the end. Yesterday I was reading the spec sheets on the new 1080p-capable Mitsu DLPs. The HDMI inputs are listed as taking up to 1080i, and the lit says they scale that up to 1080p and I started pondering this question again.In theory that is correct. But as we all know deinterlacing differs from one player/chip to the next. In many cases the deinterlacing quality of the player will be better than the display so if the display accepts 1080P then you have that option. I hope it doesn't matter but I'd still rather have that choice.

[djoxygen]

In theory that is correct. But as we all know deinterlacing differs from one player/chip to the next. In many cases the deinterlacing quality of the player will be better than the display so if the display accepts 1080P then you have that option. I hope it doesn't matter but I's still rather have that choice.

Choice is definitely good. But not really having much choice in 1080p sources right now, we can't know if the deinterlacing in the TVs are good or bad, or how they will compare to future HD sources. I'm sure that there will be a range of deinterlacing quality across both sources and monitors, and I trust our esteemed Audioholics staff will keep us informed.

[millerbrad]

Hmm... so then maybe I don't care if my TV actually accepts a 1080p source if it upscales 1080i into more-or-less "true 1080p". Makes sense. And I'm assuming that most any 1080p device I wanted to use would give me the option of outputting 1080i, so I'd be golden.

Interesting...

[driver]

The networks are having trouble squeezing 720 to 1080i content into their current bandwith , so having conent that is 1080 p is not really going to happen anytime soon . with the new sets out this quarter they are unable to do anything with the 1080p signal via hdmi . I don't think that either of the dvd formats have set a definite go on that . I read that the crrent T.I. chips can't produce the full 2 million pixels needed for the 1080p format but went with the HP approach calling it smooth picture . I would wait on a 1080p and go with the 720p since all of the prices on these sets are dropping fast . my vote is for a mitsubishi 52 ich lcd with the 720p . Yes, I know lcd ??? but mitsubishi has a great set out now along with the toshiba 52 tos52hm95 .

[BMXTRIX]

The networks are having trouble squeezing 720 to 1080i content into their current bandwith , so having conent that is 1080 p is not really going to happen anytime soon
This really depends on what you call 1080p.

1080p/24 is the standard on which 1080p is currently headed towards and seems to be based around movie watching. This actually uses LESS data at the same compression as 1080i/60. 1080i/60, at the same data rate as 1080p/24 usues about 25% more bandwidth. So, allowing for 25% less compression in 1080p/24 means that you will actually have a better, more artifact free viewing by using it instead of 1080i.

This is especially useful for digital displays and direct movie conversions. No more 3:2 pull down and the most film like experience possible.

The complications that arise deal more with cable & sat boxes being able to not only receive 1080p/24, but to be able to convert them into a format that legacy HD TVs can process, such as 1080i/60 or 720p.

I personally don't care that much about TV, if it is HD, it looks awesome and is great. But, all these nasty conversions from films at 24 frames per second to video at 30/60 frames is just terribly detrimental to the original film quality. I can hardly wait for HD discs so I can really enjoy the impact of 1080p/24 in my home...

of course, I'll need a new projector for it...

RLA... CEDIA MAN!!!! 1080p!!! DLP!!! Projectors.

[RLA]

RLA... CEDIA MAN!!!! 1080p!!! DLP!!! Projectors

BMX
You can bet I will be getting all the details on them and trying to pryout any
shipping and price point info from the manufactures rep. ;)

[Mike McGann]

A couple thoughts on this...

I have my doubts about the value of 1080p on a rear projection set, only because there's sort of a diminishing return issue on screen below a certain size, unless you sit three feet from it. In fact, I'd still make the argument that you're not getting much of a resolution boost (not in terms of resolution at the gun, but actual pixel resolution at the screen) in going from 480p to 720p or 1080i on CRT-RPTVs.

Without the optics, I'm not sure LCD/LyCOS/DLP offers a big jump from 720p/30 (my preference) to 1080P/24, other than, of course artifacts from the whole 3:2 pull down issue.

Setting that aside, let me point out a couple of other issues.

While bandwidth may be less for 1080p/24, I'm not sure broadcasters have gear to output it. Most broadcast gear comes in either 720p or 1080i output.

My guess the first source for 1080p will be HD-DVD/Blu-Ray — although I'm unsure whether they plan to encode in 720p or 1080p. And to argue with a point elsewhere in the thread, DVDs are encoded at 480p, which is why you can make them look spectacular with the right DVD player and the right display.

[BMXTRIX]

Mike - I agree... Visual acuity plays a major role which is why HD resolution is not even necessary on some smaller displays at certain viewing distances. But, when you start talking about front projection, 1080p will really start to strut its stuff.

If you are happy with 720p... Well, yeah, broadcasters aren't there, so sports at 1080p are likely out. But, a 1080p movie has about twice the resolution as 720p. That's a heck of a jump, and on a ten foot screen, you are much more likely to see it.

No, I have almost no belief that broadcasters will be sending out 1080p anytime soon. HD discs will include it as a standard though and some displays include 1080p/24 as a standard accepted input.

[millerbrad]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Engadget had a nice article relating to this topic today...

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000303057041/

[Duffinator]

That's a very sensible article and brings out some very good points. I really can't disagree with any of them. But, there's always a but right, he didn't even mention the new DVD formats in his article. :eek: I'm quite pleased with 720P and 1080i broadcast for watching TV but then I switch back to watch a DVD I instantly start thinking about 1080P and the new formats coming out. For me having a 1080P set has nothing to do with anything he mentions, it's all about watching a DVD at 1080P, regardless of whether or not the set accepts a 1080P input, so my video will catch up with the incredible audio experience we already have. For my HT setup I will only purchase a set capable of displaying a 1080P image.

[BMXTRIX]

That's a very sensible article and brings out some very good points. I really can't disagree with any of them. But, there's always a but right, he didn't even mention the new DVD formats in his article. :eek: I'm quite pleased with 720P and 1080i broadcast for watching TV but then I switch back to watch a DVD I instantly start thinking about 1080P and the new formats coming out. For me having a 1080P set has nothing to do with anything he mentions, it's all about watching a DVD at 1080P, regardless of whether or not the set accepts a 1080P input, so my video will catch up with the incredible audio experience we already have. For my HT setup I will only purchase a set capable of displaying a 1080P image.
BINGO! We have a winner!

1080p/24 is what it is all about to me. Exact reproduction of movies without the hassle of even thinking about needing 3:2 pulldown or dealing with NTSC garbage anymore. That is what I'm dreaming of.

Oh - and it has to be a front projector.

A 42" plasma? Please, I sit 15 feet from my 42" EDTV, I couldn't tell the difference between HDTV and VHS tape at that distance (yeah, okay, I can), but on a 10 foot diagonal screen? Yeah, that's where I want that Sony Qualia which I can't come close to affording. I just want to hear about the RUMORS of 1080p that will be coming from CEDIA this year. Especially from Sim2.