Just got my Samsung 1080p Rear Projector - first impressions - out of the box

[tdeluce]

Some of you asked me to post my impressions when my Samsung
1080p DLP set arrived so here it goes:

I received my HL-R6168W late this afternoon and have been absolutely
amazed at the PQ.

I have been mainly watching various DVDs and DVD scenes on my
Denon DVD-3910 via "upconverted" 1080i over HDMI but have also
been checking out HDNET and Discovery HD via Dish Network's
942 HD DVR via 1080i HDMI. I have made no effort to calibrate the
picture yet since the PQ "out of the box" is pretty incredible.

Wow! The colors in the opening scenes of "House of a Thousand Daggers" is
simply amazing on this set. Color was very good on my JVC D-ILA ( one of its
stronger points ) but compared to this set the colors looked very washed out.
Colors are deep with blue looking blue, red looking red, etc. I have not seen
a single rainbow yet but this is my first DLP that I have owned and I have never
seen a rainbow in any store on any friend's set.

The "Cave Scene" in Tomb Raider II literally blew me away. The shadow detail
is utterly amazing for a rear projector and its hard to imagine this particular
scene looking any better - and the source is only 480i! Viewing various other
scenes, I have noticed the shadow detail on this unadjusted set is the best I
have seen on a rear projection TV, but still has much room for improvement to
rival high end 9 in. CRTs. But the blacks are as good if not better than what I
have seen on many but not all CRTs.

The opening scenes of Gladiator, which I also viewed on the Mits 1080p DLP
52 in., looked just as incredible. In these I could see most if not all of the
shadow detail. The scene looked pretty much the same on the Mits as the
Sammy and I am assuming the Mits was unadjusted as is mine at this point.
Needless to state my JVC D-ILA made much of this shadow detail look like "mud".

There is very little macroblocking from the Denon DVD-3910 on this set. I have
to really look for it in most scenes to even see it there ever so slightly. There
have been a few scenes were it was briefly more evident. The MB on the
1080p DLP Mits was more noticable on the same scenes but I am not sure
why.

HDNET and Discovery HD look stunning - I just watched some of 'Choopers"
and really noticed the increase in detail as well how much more the colors
'pop" on this set. The blacks are really black - hard to believe how much
of a difference this makes - its been a couple years since I had CRT in
the house.

Most of the other HD channels look pretty bad. It is obvious a great deal
of compression is being used in their broadcast. Besides HDNET and
Discovery HD it looks like we will have to wait for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray
to really take advantage of what this set has to offer.

Well, back to drooling over the content my new 1080p DLP TV...

[Duffinator]

Glad to hear you are not having much of a problem with MB. Do you have the Mitsubishi at your house as well? I've always thought the Mitsubishi and Samsung DLP's look great and since the technology is almost identical they should look very similar.

How does it look with an SD picture? Have you tried sending just a 480i signal from your DVD player to test the scaler/deinterlacer in the set and see how it compares to your 3910? My guess is the 3910 is better but by how much? This would be helpful to know for people that don't have such a quality DVD player.

So no doubt about it the Samsung smokes your JVC?

Thanks for your comments and congrats on the new set.

[tdeluce]

Glad to hear you are not having much of a problem with MB. Do you have the Mitsubishi at your house as well? I've always thought the Mitsubishi and Samsung DLP's look great and since the technology is almost identical they should look very similar.

How does it look with an SD picture? Have you tried sending just a 480i signal from your DVD player to test the scaler/deinterlacer in the set and see how it compares to your 3910? My guess is the 3910 is better but by how much? This would be helpful to know for people that don't have such a quality DVD player.

So no doubt about it the Samsung smokes your JVC?

Thanks for your comments and congrats on the new set.

Thanks. I saw the Mits at Ken Krane's in West LA. SD PQ looks slightly
better on the Sammy 61 in. as it did on my 52 in. JVC D-ILA. Nothing
to write home to mom about but definitely not bad...

I can't believe I ever watched the JVC - the Sammy blows it away in every
respect. I suspect the 1080p JVCs to be comparible for resolution but the
blacks and CR on the 1080p DLPs sets are incredible for a rear projector.

I'll check out sending 480i and let you know if I see a difference...

[tdeluce]

Glad to hear you are not having much of a problem with MB. Do you have the Mitsubishi at your house as well? I've always thought the Mitsubishi and Samsung DLP's look great and since the technology is almost identical they should look very similar.

How does it look with an SD picture? Have you tried sending just a 480i signal from your DVD player to test the scaler/deinterlacer in the set and see how it compares to your 3910? My guess is the 3910 is better but by how much? This would be helpful to know for people that don't have such a quality DVD player.

So no doubt about it the Samsung smokes your JVC?

Thanks for your comments and congrats on the new set.

My denon doesn't output 480i only 480p and it looks much better
via HDMI. Also spoke too soon regarding MB - it shows up
quite a bit on the attack of the clones.

Pioneer 59avi here I come - which does output 480i...

[Duffinator]

My denon doesn't output 480i only 480p and it looks much better
via HDMI. Also spoke too soon regarding MB - it shows up
quite a bit on the attack of the clones.

Pioneer 59avi here I come - which does output 480i...Well the 3910 makes a killer audio disc player. :D

Did you buy it at Ken Krane's, TV Authority, or?

[tdeluce]

Well the 3910 makes a killer audio disc player. :D

Did you buy it at Ken Krane's, TV Authority, or?

I bought my Sammy via TV Authority.

[Duffinator]

Did you have any fan noise problems with the JVC? Seems they had lots of problems at least with the 61". Any fan noise with the Sammy?

Was this part of the power buy at AVS or did you just go in and buy it? Did you have to wait or was it in stock? I have an uncle in Huntington Beach and he called TVA yesterday and they said they didn't have any in stock. They were also pushing the Birillium 65" with the 3 LCoS chips that runs about $6K.

[tdeluce]

Did you have any fan noise problems with the JVC? Seems they had lots of problems at least with the 61". Any fan noise with the Sammy?

Was this part of the power buy at AVS or did you just go in and buy it? Did you have to wait or was it in stock? I have an uncle in Huntington Beach and he called TVA yesterday and they said they didn't have any in stock. They were also pushing the Birillium 65" with the 3 LCoS chips that runs about $6K.

I blast my HT so I never heard any fan noise:-)

Yes, part of the PB. If you orderd you would probably get a set in the
next 2 to 3 weeks.

I havne't seen the Birilium but I would wait for the Sony SXRDs if you
like a triple chip soluiton. If they make a 70 in. version I might upgrade
too if they do even better than the Sammy's for blacks and CR - but
it will be tough...

[Duffinator]

I blast my HT so I never heard any fan noise:-)

Yes, part of the PB. If you orderd you would probably get a set in the
next 2 to 3 weeks.

I havne't seen the Birilium but I would wait for the Sony SXRDs if you
like a triple chip soluiton. If they make a 70 in. version I might upgrade
too if they do even better than the Sammy's for blacks and CR - but
it will be tough...Thanks for the info. You know Samsung is making a 70" version of the 1080P sets. :D

[Spiffyfast]

so my tv used to be a big screen, its more like a mid-screen now....and 1080p just sounds so much better than 1080i :(

[tdeluce]

Thanks for the info. You know Samsung is making a 70" version of the 1080P sets. :D

The 7178 has the same electronics, slightly
different cabinet, and is 71 inches.

[tdeluce]

so my tv used to be a big screen, its more like a mid-screen now....and 1080p just sounds so much better than 1080i :(

Still waiting on some 1080p source :-)

[RMK!]

My denon doesn't output 480i only 480p and it looks much better
via HDMI. Also spoke too soon regarding MB - it shows up
quite a bit on the attack of the clones.

Pioneer 59avi here I come - which does output 480i...


Tony,

I wonder why it is that my 3910 DVI to LG DLP is MB free? I did notice MB on the 1910 and 2910 and those units were purchased and returned for just that reason. I have been considering a Samsung DLP for a new HT setup but excessive MB would be a deal breaker for me. I love the 3910 for multi channel audio via Dlink with my 3805.

I may just have to drag the 3910 along for demo of the displays. Did you check out the big Mitsubishi 82"? it is a beast and $10K but talk about big screen.

[tdeluce]

Tony,

I wonder why it is that my 3910 DVI to LG DLP is MB free? I did notice MB on the 1910 and 2910 and those units were purchased and returned for just that reason. I have been considering a Samsung DLP for a new HT setup but excessive MB would be a deal breaker for me. I love the 3910 for multi channel audio via Dlink with my 3805.

I may just have to drag the 3910 along for demo of the displays. Did you check out the big Mitsubishi 82"? it is a beast and $10K but talk about big screen.

the 82 in. Mits is sitting in the lobby of Mitsubishi in Irvine - PQ
is really bad in my opinion. Picture looks really washed out.
It is my understanding that the 3910 does the best job
with MB and for many scenes and I had to really look
for MB and in some never found it. But dark scenes,
so far in SW II, it is very noticable. And these tend
to be scenes where I want to expereince the excellent
shadow detail of the new TI wobulated 1080p chip. I hear
the Pioneers Elite 59avi is in the same ball park as the
3910 ( some prefer the 3910 some prefer the 59avi ) for
PQ wiht the audio on the 3910 much better. I still have
the 3910 ( unless I sell it ) for SACD and DVD-A audio.

[LOUMFSG]

...There is very little macroblocking from the Denon DVD-3910 on this set. I have to really look for it in most scenes to even see it there ever so slightly. There have been a few scenes were it was briefly more evident. The MB on the 1080p DLP Mits was more noticable on the same scenes but I am not sure why....

I am a bit of a newbie, and would just like to understand what macroblocking issue is. First of all, what is macroblocking, and does it occur in all types of displays, or just certain technologies? I am looking at getting a Panasonic 50" plasma display, and an HD-upconverting DVD player like the 3910. Is macroblocking a concern. I have read a few posts, and it seems to be an issue with DVD players containing Faroudja chips, or is bigger than that? Anyway, thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

[RMK!]

I am a bit of a newbie, and would just like to understand what macroblocking issue is. First of all, what is macroblocking, and does it occur in all types of displays, or just certain technologies? I am looking at getting a Panasonic 50" plasma display, and an HD-upconverting DVD player like the 3910. Is macroblocking a concern. I have read a few posts, and it seems to be an issue with DVD players containing Faroudja chips, or is bigger than that? Anyway, thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

MB is a displays inability to render a true black and thus substitute another color (purple in the case of my LG DLP). It is most prevalent with DLP technology. You should not experience MB with a Plasma display.

[tdeluce]

MB is a displays inability to render a true black and thus substitute another color (purple in the case of my LG DLP). It is most prevalent with DLP technology. You should not experience MB with a Plasma display.

Actually this is incorrect. Plasmas are some of the worst affected by the
3910 MB.

Macroblocking, specifically in reference to the Denon 3910/2910/1920
( any dvd player using the same Fajourda chip ), has to with errors
introduced in the decoding/upscaling process which show on
many microdisplays, partiucularly plasma, as noise such as
purple patterns on dark scenes. I believe the more compresson used
on the DVD, the worst this typically is.

The new 1080p DLPs have the best blacks right now, barring CRTs.

[LOUMFSG]

Actually this is incorrect. Plasmas are some of the worst affected by the
3910 MB.

Macroblocking, specifically in reference to the Denon 3910/2910/1920
( any dvd player using the same Fajourda chip ), has to with errors
introduced in the decoding/upscaling process which show on
many microdisplays, partiucularly plasma, as noise such as
purple patterns on dark scenes. I believe the more compresson used
on the DVD, the worst this typically is.

The new 1080p DLPs have the best blacks right now, barring CRTs.

I have a question about DVD players with the Faroudja chip. The one I am looking at, the Yamaha DVD-C950, does upconversion to 720p/1080i, but only on the HDMI output. I believe the component video output is only at 480p. If there is no upconversion, is the macroblocking problem avoided, or even if there is no upconversion, is the chip still involved, and therefore the problem would still exist. Also, it looks like the scaling on the 3910 is selectable. If you select 480p instead of 720p or 1080i, is there still macroblocking? Thanks again for your help.

[RMK!]

Actually this is incorrect. Plasmas are some of the worst affected by the
3910 MB.

Macroblocking, specifically in reference to the Denon 3910/2910/1920
( any dvd player using the same Fajourda chip ), has to with errors
introduced in the decoding/upscaling process which show on
many microdisplays, partiucularly plasma, as noise such as
purple patterns on dark scenes. I believe the more compresson used
on the DVD, the worst this typically is.

The new 1080p DLPs have the best blacks right now, barring CRTs.

Thank you for pointing out inaccuracies in my comments. In doing a web search of “macro-blocking” there seems to be a lot of speculation and opinion but very little definitive information. There is not even a consistent definition of this new phenomenon. My comments were based upon my actual observance of the problem and apparent resolution. There is speculation the Faroudja circuits are responsible for MB and there is apparently a similar if not the same issue with display technologies other than DLP although there appears to be more discussion of the issue around DLP. If you have a reliable scientific source for your information please share this.

[tdeluce]

Thank you for pointing out inaccuracies in my comments. In doing a web search of “macro-blocking” there seems to be a lot of speculation and opinion but very little definitive information. There is not even a consistent definition of this new phenomenon. My comments were based upon my actual observance of the problem and apparent resolution. There is speculation the Faroudja circuits are responsible for MB and there is apparently a similar if not the same issue with display technologies other than DLP although there appears to be more discussion of the issue around DLP. If you have a reliable scientific source for your information please share this.

I have talked to people who have changed to the Pioneer
Elite 59avi from the Denon 2910/3910 and no longer
see the MB. I have ordered the Pioneer and should have it
Wednesday. The Pioneer does use the same Faroudja chip
so this will be a good test...

[tdeluce]

I have a question about DVD players with the Faroudja chip. The one I am looking at, the Yamaha DVD-C950, does upconversion to 720p/1080i, but only on the HDMI output. I believe the component video output is only at 480p. If there is no upconversion, is the macroblocking problem avoided, or even if there is no upconversion, is the chip still involved, and therefore the problem would still exist. Also, it looks like the scaling on the 3910 is selectable. If you select 480p instead of 720p or 1080i, is there still macroblocking? Thanks again for your help.

An upconversion DVD player without the Faroudja chip
should be o.k.

[soundjunkie]

I have talked to people who have changed to the Pioneer
Elite 59avi from the Denon 2910/3910 and no longer
see the MB. I have ordered the Pioneer and should have it
Wednesday. The Pioneer does use the same Faroudja chip
so this will be a good test...


Definitely let us know how it does once you get it! I too have been leaning to the 3910/3805 combination. May think otherwise if this is appearing too often. :o

[tdeluce]

Definitely let us know how it does once you get it! I too have been leaning to the 3910/3805 combination. May think otherwise if this is appearing too often. :o

I got Pioneer Elite 59avi DVD player in earlier today and after
hooking it up a little earlier compared a variety of DVD scenes
I had observed MacroBlocking on with Denon DVD-3910 and
61 in. Samsung 1080p DLP. Here are first impressions:

The Denon DVD-3910 does appear to be a better built component
and looks more impressive in my rack then the Pioneer Elite 59avi.
I also like the 3910 remote better then the jog style remote of 59avi -
hopefully I can learn to like it.

I was not getting BTB “out of the box” so I changed NRE from 0 to 7.5
( and also switched to auto2 per the recommendation of “secrets” ).
The 59avi is now passing blacker than black. I have made no
other changes to any settings, i.e. all other settings are at
default.

I have observed absolutely no MacroBlocking from the 59avi! This
is what I was hoping for even though the 3910 wasn't extremely
bad. My new 1080p DLP really excels in shadow detail so having
annoying purple spots on the shadow detail from time to time
was not my ideal situation but was going to live with the MB if the 59avi
did not deliver the “goods” :-)

PQ appears *slightly* sharper on the 3910 then the 59avi but both
are definitely in the same ball park. Denon seems just a tad darker
on scenes then the 59avi - I don't know why this is so but again
this is pretty much out of the box so the corresponding adjustments
may be at different defaults.

The Pioneer 59avi has delivered the goods and is definitely a “keeper”.

Now to watch the ultimate dark scene torture test: Dark City :-)

[Duffinator]

Thanks for posting your impressions. Can you share where and what you paid for the 59? There seems to be some good deals on the net right now since it looks like its going to be replaced soon. But its always good to hear where others purchased especially if the price and service were good.

[tdeluce]

Thanks for posting your impressions. Can you share where and what you paid for the 59? There seems to be some good deals on the net right now since it looks like its going to be replaced soon. But its always good to hear where others purchased especially if the price and service were good.

Dr. Plasma, not sure of the forum rules here, so check out their web site:

http://www.drplasma.com/index.asp?CartId=14801906DO-EVEREST-YIN19&promo=

Service was great, shipped out when they said, got here all in one piece...

[AVJedi]

Does anyone know what video processors other DVD players are using? Like the Yamahas, Samsungs, Toshibas? Is it Faroudja? The suggested systems at this site sugest the Samsung, probably because it's more affordable. Does anyone have experience with any of these? How 'bout the Denon 5910 w/HQV decoding engine? Not that I could afford that guy!

[meisteri]

I too am waiting for my new Mitsubishi 73" 1080p. My question to you is have you had any issues with your DVR-942 and its HDMI connections with your TV? I just hooked my 942 to a new Panasonic Plasma with an HDMI cable. Every time I turn the tv off and then back on I loose my sat signal. Talked to tech service at Dish network and no one knows anything. Will call Panasonic tomorrow for their take on this issue. Its component cables till then. Thanks

[tdeluce]

I too am waiting for my new Mitsubishi 73" 1080p. My question to you is have you had any issues with your DVR-942 and its HDMI connections with your TV? I just hooked my 942 to a new Panasonic Plasma with an HDMI cable. Every time I turn the tv off and then back on I loose my sat signal. Talked to tech service at Dish network and no one knows anything. Will call Panasonic tomorrow for their take on this issue. Its component cables till then. Thanks

I have the 942 hooked up to my Sammy and the problem I have had
is about once every 1000 or so channel channels I get a snow screen.
I change source inputs for a minute, change back, and everything is o.k.

I saw the 73 Mits "proto" at Ken Kanes's in West LA - one hell of a huge
screen! Looked real nice too...