Need to upgrade from the Polk RTi series

[AngelusNexx]

Hey guys I currently have the following setup...

2 x RTi8 fronts
1 x CSi5 center
1 x FXi5 sides
2 x RTi6 rear
1 x Velodyne DPS12


I was wondering what you guys would recommend that would give me a more than marginal upgrade.

I am looking for a 7.1 system that I will use for about 70% movies/games and 30% music.

I have heard the Ascends would be a nice upgrade from the Polk Rti series. Anyone else care to agree with that?

[jaxvon]

What's your price range? Are you looking to move up on the sub too?

[AngelusNexx]

The sub im not concerned about. Im getting an HSU or SVS some day.

I really at the very most want to spend about $1700 on the speakers. Dont know if I can do this while getting a much better setup than the RTi series.

[Buckeyefan 1]

Hey guys I currently have the following setup...
2 x RTi8 fronts
1 x CSi5 center
1 x FXi5 sides
2 x RTi6 rear
1 x Velodyne DPS12
I was wondering what you guys would recommend that would give me a more than marginal upgrade.
I am looking for a 7.1 system that I will use for about 70% movies/games and 30% music.
I have heard the Ascends would be a nice upgrade from the Polk Rti series. Anyone else care to agree with that?

Zach,

That's a pretty decent setup you have there. Is the HK having trouble with the Polks? Bad match? System too bright? The MSRP on your speakers, not including the sub, is $2380! Have you tried those speakers with a different receiver?

RTi8
$839.95 pair
41-5/8" H x 7-3/4" W

CSi5
$479.95 each
7-1/2" H x 24" W

FXi5
$599.90 pair
14-3/4" H x 12-1/2" W

RTi6
$459.95 pair
14-3/4" H x 7-3/4" W

[AngelusNexx]

The HK 635 is fine. I have also heard the Polks on a Denon 3805 and a Onkyo 801. Im just not pleased with the quality/clarity im getting out of my speakers. Tonally they are ok. I really can go for almost any tonal characteristics a speaker may have. I would rather have a speaker seem too bright than too laid back though.

I got the Polks for almost 60% off so I only payed about $1200. Im willing to dish out more money for a system I will be happier with but Im jsut wondering how high I need to go to get something more than a little better.

[Buckeyefan 1]

The HK 635 is fine. I have also heard the Polks on a Denon 3805 and a Onkyo 801. Im just not pleased with the quality/clarity im getting out of my speakers. Tonally they are ok. I really can go for almost any tonal characteristics a speaker may have. I would rather have a speaker seem too bright than too laid back though.

I got the Polks for almost 60% off so I only payed about $1200. Im willing to dish out more money for a system I will be happier with but Im jsut wondering how high I need to go to get something more than a little better.

That's cool. Great price. Someone here is going to have a nice Polk system if you sell them.

Since you're really into movies, I'd highly recommend Miller and Kreisel. They really can't be beat, but are not high on the waf. I also like the AV123's. They're a little brassy up top, but I don't mind that. Plus, huge waf.

[AVRat]

I don't think you've allowed the speakers enough break-in time. Some say this is a myth, I disagree. I installed some small Paradigms last year that didn't impress me initially. Then after some serious break-in time they opened up immensely.

[j_garcia]

Personally, I don't like the Polks either. I've even owned LSis and wasn't pleased with them - they just aren't the speakers for me. You don't necessarily have to go HIGH to get great sound, you just may have to do a little more research.

I would recommend you give www.ascendacoustics.com and www.av123.com a visit. Both have excellent speakers.

[Johnny Canuck]

It depends what you want to spend. The system you have is good. I have been struggling with the fact I could do better than my RTI 12's but you know, you are going to take a huge loss when you sell them and you will be forking out major cash to get better. Don't listen to people around here that say Polk is crap. If you find your system isn't "bright" enough or detailed, you have the wrong electronics driving them. I am constantly trying to tame the brightness on my Polks and I love treble. In fact, I have hearing damage in one ear and I can't hear highs that well and the Polks are still too bright.

There comes a time when you have to just say enough is enough. We can constantly keep trying for perfection. You have great stuff already. Enjoy it.

[hifiman]

There comes a time when you have to just say enough is enough. We can constantly keep trying for perfection. You have great stuff already. Enjoy it.

I'm so glad to hear someone else say that. After many years of constant upgrades I'm tired of not being able to relax and enjoy what I have. I've recently made the effort to stop the insanity. As a side note, I also have the RTi12s (couldn't pass them up for $329.00 each) and enjoy them, but I agree they are a bit bright.

[j_garcia]

Nobody said Polk was crap, but they aren't exactly the top of the food chain either.

Wow, $329/ea sounds like a pretty damn good deal!

I've stopped upgrading too. There's always something better out there, but there has to be a point at which the majority of your system has reached a level you can be happy with and just sit there and enjoy it. I haven't upgraded anything major in my main HT in a year now, except to swap out my surrounds for larger ones from the same manufacturer (identical to my mains). I'm quite happy with the sound and have no intent to make any significant upgrades in the near future.

[Buckeyefan 1]

I thought I'd share this once again since it seems like there's a lot of Polk owners on this thread. Are all of you aware we have 4 ohm speakers when utilizing the straps on the rear speaker binding posts?

Zack (and all the other Polk owners who haven't tried this yet), do me a favor. Take off your gold straps on the back of the RTi8's. Make sure your speaker wire is secured into the top posts of the towers. You will lose one of the two woofers (the bottom one). Now play your favorite cd in stereo mode without the sub. Then dial in the sub. See if that improves the sound. My bet - your jaw will drop to the floor. Heck, even the CSi5 opens up a ton when removing the straps.

Polk incorrectly posts on their website the wrong impedence of their RTi and CSi (running dual posts) speakers. You are trying to drive 4 ohm speakers with (most likely) an underpowered receiver. You will never get the dynamics out of these Polks unless you either add an amp (biamp), or upgrade to a flagship unit. Think your receiver has the power to drive them? My 3805 falls well short of where these Polks start to shine, and it's one stellar unit.

It's a horrible thing Polk has done to consumers. I hate to be brash, but it's the truth. Take a $10 multi-meter and check the binding posts. You'll see what I'm talking about. You need roughly twice the power to run your RTi's with the straps.

Regarding the LSi series... I just hope to high heaven Polk got the impedence right. Otherwise, with the straps, the impedence may drop well below 4 ohms.

IMHO, Polk probably didn't intend for consumers to purchase these expensive units ($2300+ for Zach's setup), and try driving them with sub $1500 receivers. They really do require separate amplifiers capable of driving 4 ohms speakers. Only then can you start to compare Polks with the competition. If you decide to keep your Polks, run them with one strap until you can afford a separate amp.

[Johnny Canuck]

Buckeye..you know my system and how it's wired. Should I be taking the straps off my center and rear speakers???

Please explain again when damage happens when you do and don't remove the jumpers. I am sure others want to know as well.

[Buckeyefan 1]

Buckeye..you know my system and how it's wired. Should I be taking the straps off my center and rear speakers???

Try the center channel with and without the straps. By utilizing a separate amp for the mains, you reserve all the power in the Denon to drive the center and rears. Leave the straps on the rear. There's only two drivers in the RTi6.

Please explain again when damage happens when you do and don't remove the jumpers. I am sure others want to know as well.

Not removing the jumpers leave your speakers at 4 ohms. 4 ohms is generally too difficult a load for most receivers to handle. Removing the jumpers turns each section of your speaker into separate 8 ohm units. 8 ohms is ideal for a receiver to power speakers safely, as well as efficiently. Unless your receiver specificallly states it is capable of driving 4 ohm speakers, I would recommend against it.

There is no magical point when damage occurs to an amp or speaker. You increase your risk of damage to the amp when driving difficult loads for long periods of time (4 ohms; or 6 ohms at low spl's). Denon recommends point blank not to run 4 ohm speakers with their receivers - any of them. You risk damage when the unit overheats. Ventilation is key in keeping electronics running smoothly. Heat sinks can only dissipate heat, not eliminate it. The larger, heavier units generally equipped with large power supplies and transformers also come with large heat sinks. These heat sinks are adequate, but in no way compare to separate monobloc amps which sometimes outweigh receivers two to three times at similar wattage.

When a circuit board gets too hot, solder joints may fail. A protection mode will kick in, and shut down the unit. Do not attempt to turn the unit back on. Feel the top of your unit. If it's too hot to touch, let it cool down. Make sure you have plenty of ventilation around the unit - top, sides, and rear. Never place components on top of a receiver or amp. And always have open ventilation in the rear if at all possible. If not, add a small fan.

As far as speaker damage goes, if you plan on playing them at reference levels, reduce the treble and bass. Set the tone controls to flat. You will blow more tweeters running too much treble. The highest frequencies tend to distort quickly. Distortion is what damages drivers, especially tweeters. An underpowered receiver or amp will do more damage to speakers than will one with substantial power. If you've ever heard a high end reference system, you know the noise floor is absolutely silent. It seems these systems never get "loud," yet when you try to converse, it's almost impossible. When playing an entry level system at high volumes, it's loud, but with a high level of distortion. There is no quiet noise floor. Here comes the distortion, and blown tweeters.

[j_garcia]

You can take an ohm meter and find out exactly what they are in a few seconds. The quoted nominal impedance for the speakers is with the jumpers in place, because they know that 90% of the people who buy their stuff will never remove the jumper. Polk isn't THAT stupid.

[Johnny Canuck]

I seem to recall in Audioholic's 3805 review, the part where it mentions biamping the zone 3 to the front, Clint said to make sure the straps were on or you can fry your receiver. i recall my Denon going into shut down once when i took off the straps.

[Buckeyefan 1]

You can take an ohm meter and find out exactly what they are in a few seconds. The quoted nominal impedance for the speakers is with the jumpers in place, because they know that 90% of the people who buy their stuff will never remove the jumper. Polk isn't THAT stupid.

Yes they are. Check them. My RTi10's strapped are 4 ohms.

[Buckeyefan 1]

I seem to recall in Audioholic's 3805 review, the part where it mentions biamping the zone 3 to the front, Clint said to make sure the straps were on or you can fry your receiver. i recall my Denon going into shut down once when i took off the straps.

If you biamp the front towers, you definitely want to remove the jumpers. Denon doesn't recommend biamping zone 3 to the fronts - although many seem to do it successfully. By taking off the straps, zone one was running one 8 ohm speaker, and zone 3 was running the other 8 ohm speaker.

[jcPanny]

Zach,
If I had your $1700 budget, I would consider a 5.1 or 7.1 bookshelf system from Axiom audio. Audioholics just posted a review of their higher end floorstanding system.
I would suggest ordering a pair of the M22ti bookshelf speakers. A / B test them against your current polks. If you don't like them, you are only out the return shipping.

[silversurfer]

zack...you get around. :)

Some good replies to your post at Ascend Acoustics' forum.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=1238

[j_garcia]

Yes they are. Check them. My RTi10's strapped are 4 ohms.

So you measured them? Well, that doesn't give me any more reason to be interested in Polk speakers. That would have to be the first time I've heard of it, and if it is the case, it would be a serious fault on their part.

[Buckeyefan 1]

So you measured them? Well, that doesn't give me any more reason to be interested in Polk speakers. That would have to be the first time I've heard of it, and if it is the case, it would be a serious fault on their part.

No kidding. I even called Polk and asked a tech about it. He was unaware, and swore up and down they were 8 ohms strapped. He checked, and sure enough, his jaw dropped and apologized via emaili. I'm still in awe that they haven't corrected this on the website.

Your GR Research AV2's aren't that much less of a pig as are these RTi series towers. They seem to like the power as well. At $900 a pair, they aren't cheap. I'll give them credit for at least stating the obvious: It is also important to keep in mind that the A/V-2's are a 4 ohm speaker. So make sure your amp or receiver can handle driving the 4 ohm load prior to ordering.
Specs: A/V-2
Frequency response +/-1.2 db (anechoic) 3 db down point is 55Hz
Sensitivity is 91.5 db (1watt/1m)
Nominal power range 5-100 watts RMS
Impedance 4 ohms nominal 3.6 ohms minimal

[j_garcia]

Yep, they like plenty of juice. The fact that they have higher sensitivity helps, but the low impedance still means they like to have enough power on hand. My receiver would saturate at elevated levels with demanding stuff with just three across the front (in my former setup using A/V-1s for surrounds, which are 8 Ohm), which is why I added the monoblocks. So the two mains with their own power supplies are very happy and sound great.

This pic from the GR site shows my actual main pair:
http://www.gr-research.com/images/brians.jpg

[Johnny Canuck]

Buckeye....if i take off the jumpers on my center channel, will i be eliminating any highs or lows. I know the drivers are small in a center channel but you need some bass in male vocals..

Thanks dude. You are so helpful around here.

So if I understand this correctly, I am running my RTI 12's at 8ohms because I have an amp on my lows?? But my center and rears are in 4ohm??

[Buckeyefan 1]

Buckeye....if i take off the jumpers on my center channel, will i be eliminating any highs or lows. I know the drivers are small in a center channel but you need some bass in male vocals..

Thanks dude. You are so helpful around here.

So if I understand this correctly, I am running my RTI 12's at 8ohms because I have an amp on my lows?? But my center and rears are in 4ohm??

I had all the specs written down somewhere on the impedance. The CSi5 strapped is somewhere around 6 ohms. Keep it strapped. You want the dual woofers and one tweeter. When you take the strap off, you eliminate one woofer, and not the tweeter. My RTi4's are around 6 ohms strapped. The RTi10's are 4 ohms strapped, 8 ohms unstrapped. My FXi3's have no strap, and cannot be biamped. They read a nice even 8 ohms. The FXi5's may be strapped - I don't know.

If you have your separate amp running the entire RTi12's strapped, they are 4 ohms. If you have your receiver running the top end unstrapped (the midbass and tweeter), and the separate amp running the bottom (woofers), then you are running two (actually 4) speakers at 8 ohms. Your amp may be able to handle the RTi12's strapped by itself, but then you'd be wasting the two channels on your receiver that could be used for the top end.

Your center and rears are running around 6 ohms. The center channel would open up if you biamped it, but at 6 ohms, your receiver can handle it. You'll need to increase the dB level of the center to blend in with your more efficient towers if they are biamped. Not a lot, but slightly. Auto (mic)calibration should take care of that. The same goes for your surrounds. They'll need a little bump to make up for the loss in impedence, but not much. The surrounds make up a very small percentage of the soundstage, even in digital surround, so biamping the rears isn't necessary IMO unless you have an entry level receiver running 4 ohm speakers (or 6 ohm at <86dB). It can get confusing, but with some time, and trial and error, you can dial it in nicely with a separate 2 channel amp.

[Johnny Canuck]

You mention biamping my center to open it up. That would require me gettinga nother amp right? Any way I can do this now?

BTW, I can't do that biamp trick AH recommends, using an amp on my lows like i do now can I?

Buckeye..any info on my other threads i started tonight? about low budget DVD players? subwoofer isolation foam?

Thanks a bunch..

BTW..had a few tonight. sorry if i seem like an a hole...

[Buckeyefan 1]

You mention biamping my center to open it up. That would require me getting another amp right? Any way I can do this now?
BTW, I can't do that biamp trick AH recommends, using an amp on my lows like i do now can I?

If you're running a 5.1 setup now, you can probably use the rear 6th or 7th channel on the front center to biamp the center. So, yes, you can do the AH trick to biamp the center. I'm still trying to figure out the logic when playing the center in dts or dd, if the center is biamped, would it be confused by the different channel signals.


Buckeye..any info on my other threads i started tonight? about low budget DVD players? subwoofer isolation foam?
Thanks a bunch..
BTW..had a few tonight. sorry if i seem like an a hole...

I haven't gotten that far yet. I'll check them out. I was too busy killing time dismissing that SDAT dude from ecoustics on his "white van" speakers. Geezus, what a waste of brain cells.