Narrowed to 2! (Paradigm & Athena)

[Virgil]

After much soul-searching and an equal amount of internet-searching, I've finally narrowed down my next speaker buy to two floorstanders:

Paradigm Monitor 7
Athena AS-F2.2

Now I know most of you have heard at least one of these, and I'm hoping some have heard both as well.

Please, help me! I'm going to hear the Paradigm Monitor 7 tomorrow, but I don't think I'll be able to hear the Athena AS-F2.2 unless I BUY THEM. How do they compare?

Wes

[rikmeister]

studios more than the monitors.

[Snarl]

No idea on the Athyena's sorry, I've heard the Monitor 7's however and their excellent, IMHO

[dloweman]

another post for the monitor 7's. I have them and they are absolutely wonderful, no desire to upgrade at all and love to just sit back and enjoy. haven't heard the athena's though. enjoy your quest

[Bird]

You're looking at Paradigm's entry level line and Athena's top line which should line up ok. Paradigm lines up better with Energy, another API company(Athena's parent) than it does with Athena, being it's premium brand along with Mirage.

As far auditioning the Athena, they are sold at Best Buy and Future Store (CA). The only problem is if they have them in stock. The new series 2's just came out and haven't trickled down to the retail level in many places.

Good luck. By the way, just to through you into confusion, have you checked out the Energys or PSB? These are two other great Canadian speakers.

[Virgil]

Ahhhhh, Bird don't tell me things like that. It's gonna be one of these two and that's final. Remember, my peace of mind is just as important as getting the best speakers I can for the money, and I've already spend a lot of my life during the last 2 weeks finding out what this home audio thing is all about.

Rik, that's another question that I posted in the receiver forum. The main contenders are Marantz and H/K, but I'm not sure if I want the stereo receiver or the 5.1. I don't really need the gadgets on the 5.1, but I've heard that they are made better than the stereo's.

peace

Wes

[Takeereasy]

Both speakers are great deals and I don't think you could loose either way. Paradigm claims to have the lower extention of the two at 33hz vz the Athena's 35 hz, but I'd be willing to bet that the Athena can put out more bass than the Paradigm due to the larger surface of its drivers. The Athena is the bigger, heavier speaker (12 lbs per pair) while the Paradigm takes up less room and is IMO the prettier of the two. If the price for both is Identical I'd suggest the Paradigm. If the price is $150 or more in favor of the Athena I'd go that way. Both speakers are efficient and can be driven well off of the receivers you are looking at.

[Spiffyfast]

Just thought I'd throw in my two cents, completely agree with the last post, the Monitor 7's sound amazing and if your planning on getting a sub for the low end they will work great for you, if you don't want a sub, get the Athenas and those dual 8's will have more than enough bass for you

[j_garcia]

studios more than the monitors.

I have to agree there. The Monitor line is good, but lacks something for music, which is why I sold mine. I had a CC-370, Minis, Titans and Monitor 5s (same driver array as the 7s). They were always fine for movies, but did not give me what I was looking for with music. So if you are going to be listening to a lot of music, I'd say you might want to open up your search a bit more.

[rikmeister]

buy the lowly studio 20s over the monitor7s. Look on ebay or audigon and see what you can do on some used studios. but listen to them if you can. You will see what i mean.

[Buckeyefan 1]

After much soul-searching and an equal amount of internet-searching, I've finally narrowed down my next speaker buy to two floorstanders:
Paradigm Monitor 7
Athena AS-F2.2
Please, help me! I'm going to hear the Paradigm Monitor 7 tomorrow, but I don't think I'll be able to hear the Athena AS-F2.2 unless I BUY THEM. How do they compare?
Wes

Wes, you did see this, didn't you?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0009WRV10/ref%3Dpd%5Fecc%5Frvi%5Fcart%5F2/104-8060217-9334351

[Audiosouse]

Your choices are in separate classes rendering a comparison unfair. Athena can't touch Paradigm's Pure Titanium tweeter or match it's build. A more appropriate comparison is Paradigm's Phantom from the Performance Series, which are just gorgeous looking in their new iteration.

Athena AS-F2.2
Weight: 44 lbs
Width: 9 1/2 in.
Drivers: Dual 8 in.
Crossover: 2 way (both 8 in. handle same frequencies)

Paradigm Monitor 7
Weight: 38 lbs
Width: 7 5/8 in.
Drivers: dual 6 1/2 in.
Crossove: 2 1/2 way (crosses over to special lower frequency driver at 400 Hz)

Notice similar weights even though Athena has dual 8 in. drivers and much larger cabinet. The Paradigm's are only 6 lbs. lighter! Paradigm is a more sophisticated speaker using three specialized drivers and a 2 1/2 way crossover for the various frequencies as opposed to Athena's two respectively, which is why the Paradigm's reach lower despite less surface area.

The Monitor series is a significant step up from the Performance series, less so IMO than from Monitor to Reference Studio. While you may brag Athena's AS-F2.2 is the top of their line, Paradigm's Monitor series (identical performance across the line, differentiated mostly by bandwidth) compete with much more expensive speakers on the market and measure as such.

You're comparison was not a fair one to begin with. Besides, an Athena 5.1 will run almost half a Paradigm Monitor 5.1. I wouldn't venture into Paradigm Reference Studio territory unless you're prepared to shell out some serious dough. The best surround systems have identical drivers all around and you'll pay more than double for a Studio 5.1 than a Monitor 5.1. That's getting into serious high end, which will lead to upgrading everything else and leave you broke!

That being said, if you can find any AS-F2's (the original series) left that were about 40% off, it's a no brainer. :) Also, you'll never see Paradigm on sale from a boutique dealer as you might find Athena from Best Buy or Future Shop.

As far as saying one is better music than the other...that's audio mythology. Sound is sound and both reproduce it brilliantly. If others had issues playing music on Monitor Series speakers, it's due to poor set up, room interaction or plain incompetence, not the speaker. They are giant killers and world class music reproducers. There have been many comparisons between Paradigm's PTD tweeter and Scan Speak's Revelator, the latter considered the current world standard. That's what class Monitor speakers compete with.

In the end you still have to listen to them! There's no substitute for spending some qulity time with each and a favourite CD. Happy hunting and tell us what you get!

[Audiosouse]

Wes, you did see this, didn't you?
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0009WRV10/ref%3Dpd%5Fecc%5Frvi%5Fcart%5F2/104-8060217-9334351

Holy sh!#! I should have looked at this before I wrote a bloody speach!

Your decision has been made! Buy two pair! Only 4 left!!!

[Audiosouse]

Rik, that's another question that I posted in the receiver forum. The main contenders are Marantz and H/K, but I'm not sure if I want the stereo receiver or the 5.1. I don't really need the gadgets on the 5.1, but I've heard that they are made better than the stereo's.

peace

Wes

Why limit yourself to those two? Do they still make stereo receivers? I think not getting a digital 7.1 channel receiver is akin to shooting yourself in the foot. There's not much price difference anyway. Make sure your receiver has pre outs for potential amplification upgrades. Here's a good inexpensive one with features to spare, the all important pre outs and even auto set up!
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/PioneerVSX-815ReceiverReview1.php

If it's one thing this site does well, it's receiver reviews, you should check them out. There's deals to be had at Yamaha in the near future with the RX-V2500's replacement on the way.

As I said before, listen to the speakers you like WITH the receiver's you're interested in. Not a difficult task in any boutique shop with a switch box. Make sure you balance the volume levels via an SPL and have a buddy switch the receivers while listening through the same speakers. Ensure the receivers identities are unkown by having your buddy refer to them as A, B, etc. It's a quick and dirty double blind listeneing test.

Make a list of listening criteria, mark down which one(s) you liked best in each, tally 'em up and your winner is revealed. Then turn around to discover your choice, you may be surprised or notice no difference at all! In which case buy the cheapest one or the one with the most features for the price. I can't overstate the importance of this kind of testing, it will ensure no post purchase anxiety. Take your time.

[Virgil]

Hey guys thanks a lot for all the great responses. Honestly I appreciate the advice. Today I did go to a little store here in Kansas City called Sound FX and listened to some of the Paradigm Monitor 7's; they were good, but I thought a little bit bright. I took some my CD of the Cleveland Orchestra under Pierre Boulez playing Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, and some of the brass and upper woordwinds and cymbals sounded too harsh. The detail, however, was excellent and what I'm talking about in the highs was only a minor annoyance. Besides, I think I'm spoiled from hearing the DALI Evidence 870 ($2,500 / pair) in the listening room on monday. I expected the Monitor 7's to sound like that and it just didn't happen.

I also got a chance to listen to some Wharfdale Diamond 9.5's, which were only priced $50 above the Monitor 7's. They were a little smoother but didn't have quite the bass, and the smoothness was almost on the creamy side (if something can sound "creamy"). I honestly don't know which one I would have chosen, as they both were pretty good, but unfortunately both were just out of my price range -- the Monitor 7's were $750, the Diamond 9.5's were $800, and the guy wouldn't haggle!

BUT....as first Buckeyfan and then you, Audiosouse, pointed out so expletetively, Amazon had for some wierd reason just an incredible deal on the AS-F2.2, and I had to buy them. I actually put in my order today, and with the free shipping they should be here by the end of July (FREE means it takes longer).

So, now I've purchased everything. Here's my complete setup.

Marantz SR5400 AV receiver
Marantz DV4500 DVD player
Athena AS-F2.2 floorstanding speakers

Total price + shipping: $916.89

I'm pretty proud of myself. But really I should be thanking all of you; you don't know how much your advice and the advice of everyone else at Audioholics got me quality equipment for an ultra low price.

peace

Wes

[Johnny Canuck]

I have to agree with Bird.

If I had a chance to do it over again, I would have looked a lot more at Psb over the Polk RTI 12's I got.

Bottom of the line Paradigms aren't as good as Psb's in the same price range, or even Polk for that matter.

[Audiosouse]

...Here's my complete setup.

Marantz SR5400 AV receiver
Marantz DV4500 DVD player
Athena AS-F2.2 floorstanding speakers

Total price + shipping: $916.89

I'm pretty proud of myself. But really I should be thanking all of you; you don't know how much your advice and the advice of everyone else at Audioholics got me quality equipment for an ultra low price.

peace

Wes

Nice job Wes! I'm sure that system will sound outstanding! That's a lot of hardware for under $1K. When you see a deal like that don't question it, jump on it! Although people will have you believe they can buy whatever they want, price is usually the deciding factor for any purchase and getting awsome speakers for a shockingly low price is a great thrill!

My only criticism is you should have bought two pair! Wait until you hear surround music. I was a dedicated 2 channel junkie until I purchased a couple DVD-A discs. I'll never go back.

[Audiosouse]

Bottom of the line Paradigms aren't as good as Psb's in the same price range, or even Polk for that matter.I'm not sure what models you've listened to, but I thought Paradigm's Performance series bested Energy's Conoisseur, and I'm a long time Energy fan. I know PSB is impressive, but the Performance series is no lackluster speaker (most everybody would agree) and will absolutely shame even higher level Polk speakers. BTW, Monitor series is Paradigm's mid level line between Performance and Reference Studio.

What bothers me about PSB is they do not make their own drivers, but use OEM's. While there's nothing inherintly wrong with this approach, I prefer companies who actually make the entire speaker, only then can they call it their own. API and Paradigm are the only two companies in Canada with this capability.

[anamorphic96]

Hey guys thanks a lot for all the great responses. Honestly I appreciate the advice. Today I did go to a little store here in Kansas City called Sound FX and listened to some of the Paradigm Monitor 7's; they were good, but I thought a little bit bright. I took some my CD of the Cleveland Orchestra under Pierre Boulez playing Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, and some of the brass and upper woordwinds and cymbals sounded too harsh. The detail, however, was excellent and what I'm talking about in the highs was only a minor annoyance. Besides, I think I'm spoiled from hearing the DALI Evidence 870 ($2,500 / pair) in the listening room on monday. I expected the Monitor 7's to sound like that and it just didn't happen.

I also got a chance to listen to some Wharfdale Diamond 9.5's, which were only priced $50 above the Monitor 7's. They were a little smoother but didn't have quite the bass, and the smoothness was almost on the creamy side (if something can sound "creamy"). I honestly don't know which one I would have chosen, as they both were pretty good, but unfortunately both were just out of my price range -- the Monitor 7's were $750, the Diamond 9.5's were $800, and the guy wouldn't haggle!

BUT....as first Buckeyfan and then you, Audiosouse, pointed out so expletetively, Amazon had for some wierd reason just an incredible deal on the AS-F2.2, and I had to buy them. I actually put in my order today, and with the free shipping they should be here by the end of July (FREE means it takes longer).

So, now I've purchased everything. Here's my complete setup.

Marantz SR5400 AV receiver
Marantz DV4500 DVD player
Athena AS-F2.2 floorstanding speakers

Total price + shipping: $916.89

I'm pretty proud of myself. But really I should be thanking all of you; you don't know how much your advice and the advice of everyone else at Audioholics got me quality equipment for an ultra low price.

peace

Wes


You should be proud. Thats a great system you put together. The Athenas efficiency and overall balanced sound will lend itself nicely to the clean power the Marantz is able to put out.

Cheers and enjoy.

[mulester7]

.....Virgil, your Dad just called in here at the station and said he wanted a sub....I've got him on hold.....

[JeffB]

I just ordered a pair of the Athena AS-F2 also. I could not pass them up at the price of $173 each with free shipping.
When I did a search on Amazon, I received a different link to the AS-F2. This link was asking $499 each.

Buckeyefan, how did you find the less expensive link.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0009WRV10/ref%3Dpd%5Fecc%5Frvi%5Fcart%5F2/103-1924279-2309424
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002H4YPI/qid=1121901415/sr=8-4/ref=pd_bbs_4/103-1924279-2309424?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

[Buckeyefan 1]

I just ordered a pair of the Athena AS-F2 also. I could not pass them up at the price of $173 each with free shipping.
When I did a search on Amazon, I received a different link to the AS-F2. This link was asking $499 each.

Buckeyefan, how did you find the less expensive link.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0009WRV10/ref%3Dpd%5Fecc%5Frvi%5Fcart%5F2/103-1924279-2309424
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002H4YPI/qid=1121901415/sr=8-4/ref=pd_bbs_4/103-1924279-2309424?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

Right here; first post.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=81692#post81692

[ducker]

that price on the F2.2 doesn't look like it's being offered anymore... must of been a glitch... what were they originaly there for? when I click the link now, I see nothing but a rather blank Athena F2.2 page for $300... very barren page.

[Ohmage]

that price on the F2.2 doesn't look like it's being offered anymore... must of been a glitch... what were they originaly there for? when I click the link now, I see nothing but a rather blank Athena F2.2 page for $300... very barren page.

When I checked before, it was $173 per pair for the AS-F2's sold by Amazon (not a third party), with 2 pairs left; I guess they are sold out.

What kind of nonsense is this from the descriptions of the AS-F2.2's?

Upgrade of a Critically Acclaimed Favorite
The Athena Technologies F2 tower speaker earned a Stereophile "Recommended Components" listing plus other awards from the audiophile press. But that's not good enough for Athena Technologies. The new F2.2 upgraded version of this favorite floorstander boasts the same impressive specs as its predecessor plus even more exciting sound.

And get this. Athena offers the F2.2 at a lower retail price than its predecessor.

The AS-F2.2's are not upgrades, but downgrades: 7 lbs lighter per speaker, same drivers (except for silver colour), and same specs. Same great sound? Probably not, and remains to be heard. Remember, it was the 51 lb AS-F2's that won the award, not the lighter AS-F2.2's.

Ohmage.

[ducker]

all I have to say... is I love my F2's... :D

something tells me if I had purchased another speaker brand I'd love those too.. I dunno, perhaps not. Maybe I'd feel a burning desire to listen to other speakers and compare. It's really hard to say.

But I love 'em!

[Johnny Canuck]

No Audiosous, I have never listened to Paradigm speakers and I am not sure about their monitor series or the others you listed and if they are their middle of the road or whatever. Although I could have done better for my $1700, I am sure my Polk RTI 12's are better than Paradigm's lower end stuff. The companies are not that far apart. Paradigm are entry level at our high end store in town. We are not comparing apples to apples. And don't be misled by the fact Polks are sold at BB. Smaller , so called high end stores can't compete with BB's pricing, this is why they don't sell Polks. Not because they aren't as good as names like Paradigm. Why do you think Polks are not reviewed here or even mentioned by Audioholics yet cheap companies like Axiom are? Because Polk doesn't advertise here, nor do they need to. Nobody can honestly say Axiom makes better speakers than Polk. If you do, Audioholics has you seriously brainwashed. . To get the same quality speaker as the RTI12, I would be spending $2500+ with companies like Paradigm, B & W, Klipsch etc..My point is if you have a certain amount of cash to spend, do you get lower end of one company or another's company high end. Compare it to buying a car. Do you choose a bottom of the line, no options Acura or a fully loaded, top of the line Honda for the same cash? Sure the Acura is supposed to be better quality, but the Honda will be more enjoyable. You would have to spend considerably more to get an Acura with all the same bells and whistles. And both are great cars.

Hope I am making sense. You have to look at the return on your dollar. I agree Paradigm makes better speakers than Polk. I just don't agree I would get something even remotely close for the same price as my Polks. Polk are known for great bang for the buck, not necessarily the best you can buy.

[jaxvon]

Good point. Polks are still a great speaker option, but unfortunately they often get dismissed because of their status as a "Mass Market" brand. Any solid look at the LSi series should be reassuring of their quality though. High-end poly cones, a vifa ring radiator tweeter (or a clone), and really solid build quality. I'm sure Audioholics has contacted Polk about getting a review sample, but like you said, they don't need to advertise here as well.

But uhm, with the car things....Acura and Honda are basically the same cars, Acura is just more snooty, and has a few extra goodies. I'd personally go for the Honda, just for the fact that it has higher value and is virtually the same as the Acura.

[Johnny Canuck]

I had a 2002 Acura RSX..sold it, bought a 2005 Honda CRV-EX because my situation has changed. My friends call it the cervex..Get it...chick car...cervex.. :) . Both are quality, like you said, same compamy. One is just a little more "snooty". Sometimes guys can get a little "snooty" with their audio equipment. And if you read other sites, they think lots of guys around here have been brainwashed. Maybe we all have been a little bit :) . We only read about what Clint wants us to read. Sure, he can't review all companies but he definately reviews the ones who pay his bills. Just look at the top of this page. Axiom, Blue jeans cables, Rocket subs, banners everywhere. Doesn't take much to figure out why. As I said before, Polk Audio is never mentioned here. In fact, the only thing I read was that Polk Audio is in the same boat as Bose and that is soooo wrong.

While we are on the topic of this site I have to say something that has come to me recently. Maybe it deserves another thread but it seems to fit with this discussion. And it's not to flame Audioholics because I come here almost everyday and love it:

In the real audio world, or on the street i should say, nobody has ever heard of these companies. I bought an Hsu sub and absolutely love it. because i read about it here and online. Nobody, and I mean nobody i have ever talked to at any store in town, has ever heard of Hsu Research. Nor SV Subwoofers. Nor Axiom. Are we all being misled or do others have their head in the sand?

[Takeereasy]

To answer that question just take in the STF-3 to a local dealer or chain store. Put it right next to the similarly priced competition and see who does better. If the STF looses to anything that a dealer is selling for a similar price then you have been misled. In order to do that though every review ever conducted by an independent source has been in on duping you. The authorities in the field that review Subs like SVS or HSU give them glowing reviews for a reason. I've only heard HSU subs, not SVS, but I'll tell you this much, on a per dollar comparison I don't think much touches HSU in Canada. The VTF-2 that I listened to yesterday kills my GF's dad's friend's PDR 12. I know this because I brought it with me to demo(I helped him pick out his HT and he loves it). The store said no problem, bring it in. The PDR 12 is rated as going lower (24hz vs. 25 hz) and he paid $550 including tax. The VTF-2 was about $650 including tax and was a heftier sub to lift. The VTF-2 danced all over the Paradigm. It seemed to pump out deeper and fuller and tighter bass. The VTF-2 only falls short of the Paradigm PW 2200 and above in my opinion. Then there is the STF-3. It seemed better than the Paradigm PW2200 and came in hundreds cheaper. The last comparison was done by memory though so it might be sketchy at best. What I was bothered by was the fact that the Paradigm says it hits 18hz and the HSU claims 25hz +/- 2db as a low end. I don't know what it is that makes me think the HSU was the superior performer, but i did. I love the Paradim PW2200, but for the same $ the VTF-3 would be my pick, but for the cheaper budget the stf-3 is a winner. I am jealous of your sub Mr. Canuck.


I do respectfully disagree with your statement that it would take $2500 from those other manufacturers to equal your Polks however. I do think that those Polks are nice, no, make that fantastic speakers. And you're right about people knocking them solely because they are sold though BB or Futureshop. In the $1700 price range you are calling on a lot of challegers though. I'm not saying that any of them would walk all over your Polks. Just that they'd give them a good go. Paradims range from about $250 up into thousands of dollars a pair at my local dealer. I know that to many shops if a speaker doesnt crack 5 digits it is entry level. By the way the Polk RTI's have an MSRP of $1700 US. So does the Paradigm 90p. I like those polks, but I have to admit I've nver seen what they are fully capable of. I love the Paradigm 90p. Both are very different approaches to speakers, and yes I know powered speakers create their own problems, but I'd take the 90p's in a heartbeat. I don't equate Polk with bose but they do make some real junk as well as some outstanding products. That junk is also sold at BB and Futureshop alongside the good stuff. That is why people get that impression of Polk. If one were to give the knuckle rap to the RTI 12's and then a knuckle rap to a pair of $150 Polk bookshelfs they will notice one hell of a difference. Stack up a pair of Polk $200 speakers and Paradigm $200 speakers and see which one sounds better. My bet will be on the smaller paradigm. You are lucky you didn't trow my beloved PSB or Monitor audio into the fray ;) . I like the sound of those two companies better than Polk. That is where sheer subjectivity comes into play however. You must admit that when it comes to taste in speakers much of it is subjective.

I'm no in any way trying to be mean or argumentative, please don't take it that way. I'm not trying to start anything, especially with a fellow Canuck.

[cabron1]

Get the Athena's; You will love them. I have enjoyed many Athena speakers, and never been dissapointed. I would however not get the Athena sub.

[Johnny Canuck]

Thanks Takereasy. Nice to have a fellow Canuck around here. I have always thought PSB is what I SHOULD have bought over my Polks. PSB, being Canadian, is not mentioned much here either. I am getting used to my Polks and I have to admit they don't sound as bad as they did before in my small apartment with hardwood floors. Polk is good bang for the buck and if you read their forums, they are loved by many people. The Lsi series is a different matter. The RTI 12's need lots of juice, but the Lsi's are even more power hungry.

BTW, the Polk RTI 12's can be had in these neck of the woods for $1200 Canadian. I paid $1400 + taxes almost a year ago, October 04.. I really like the RTI 6's in the rear..those were $450. I did have 2 PSB subs at home for audition. The 10" was awesome for the money, but the 12" was no comparison to the Hsu STF 3 and was $300 more!!

Then there's another Canadian brand, Energy. Or Mirage. What are your thoughts on those? I tried a Mirage 12" sub. It was absolutely horrible.

[Takeereasy]

I really like energy speakers, but again, not so much with the subs. Energy Veratis are fan frigging tastic IMO, but you wanna talk power hungry. Veratis speakers almost make Polks look like Klipsch when it comes time to drive a speaker. Energy is supposedly revamping the sub line, or they have recently, one or the other, either way I haven't heard the new line up. I have to admit that I'm not a big Mirage sub fan either. I suggested a 10" Mirage once to someone because they had narrowed their choices to three subs and I either currently own or had owned the other two. My local audio store recently started carrying Mirage Omni's, and I'm not too impressed. They are some sexy, small speakers though, and if you had to go that small thy'd be the ones to get IMO, but a cheap, big bookshelf setup, like mine will eat them alive IMO.

I've got to tell you again how impressd with your HSU sub I was. It is one big, heavy, deep going son of a gun. It is a real bargin. I'm going to listen to the Paradigm 2200 again to be sure because I hate to give an opinion based soley on memory, but the price makes the HSU a better buy IMO. I guess it will still be by memory this way but at least I'll be more certain than I was before. My local HSU dealer has given me shoddy service twice now, and I don't want to give them my money, so that might be a decisive blow regarding me gettinga HSU sub. Actually I'm certain now that I'm going for a Cadence X-sub. Not as nice as the HSU but my HT is only 12' by 10' and the Cadence is under $400 shipped to me, so I can live with that.

On a side note my local Paradigm dealer is seling a pair of PSB Stratus Minis for $600 on consignment. They are incredible sounding speakers imo, and they have an msrp of $1300. I'm so tempted. The Stratus lineup is where PSB gets really good IMO. Again though power hungry beasts.

[Johnny Canuck]

Be warned the Hsu STF 3is massive. I was living in a 12 x 10 room before and it looked silly in there. I now live in a little bigger place, about the same width but alot longer. It's still too big. The Psb 10" was perfect in my last place but I have always thought to go as big as you can afford and turn it down. The 12" is not driven with any effort compared to the 10". It just seemed the 10" blended better in my small room...But, i won't live here forever and i will want to have too much rather than not enough later. My neighbours hate me now. It's a down driving sub and they feel it on their floor. I have had to get used to turning it down here and hate it. There is also a turbo upgrade coming out for it, so it will be an even better value. I did my research and the STF 3 is bar none, the best value. I got mine for $699 and had to have it shipped to me. Nobody deals them out west here. Nor has anyone heard of them. I would just go to a different dealer. Don't be turned off on Hsu and blame them because of one salesman jerk. Go direct to Hsu if needed.

Nice talking to you.

JC

[JeffB]

Well, I thought that I had ordered the last pair of Athena F2s from Amazon for $173 each. They arrived yesterday and they were F2.2s. I am a little bummed about that. The previous model was a little heavier.

[Audiosouse]

Well, I thought that I had ordered the last pair of Athena F2s from Amazon for $173 each. They arrived yesterday and they were F2.2s. I am a little bummed about that. The previous model was a little heavier.

Bummed!? You got upgraded units for a steal!

Johnny Canuck, I'm sure you're Polks sound great (I know they look great). It's just as a fellow toque wearer (that's a winter hat for our American brothers), I support the locals because we make world class products that are way cheaper for us to buy. So I wouldn't buy any brand other than Canadian. Why pay more for a product that doesn't support my local economy and most likely isn't as good?

If I could afford it, my electronics would be local too, but even value famous Anthem is out of my price range compared to a good receiver from Denon or Yamaha. Even the Anthem Statement D1 lacks features my 3805 takes for granted. Kinda' hard to justify that snob appeal at five times the price.

Same goes for subs. Did any of you guys actually read the Axiom EP500 review? AH tested an SVS and (essentially Hsu) Outlaw but it's the Axiom that was named "king of the deep". Guess what...Canadian! You guys ever hear the tiny little Paradigm Seismic 12? If you had, this would be a different conversation altogether.

As for people never hearing of the great value brands...SUCKERS! Audiophile's dirty little secret. They're famous because they smoke expensive named brands for a fraction of the price. The very definition of value! Dumb consumers get what's coming to them.

[Takeereasy]

Us Canadians are a crafty bunch. Hiding in the frozen tundra. Wearing white to blend in with the all too frequent July and August snow storms. Hunting polar bears on the ice flows of Toronto. Moving to the summer hunting ground every spring when the igloos melt. And to top it off our govt. funded subteranian speaker factories are pumping out the best values in speakers. What a country we live in!

[Spiffyfast]

Us Canadians are a crafty bunch. Hiding in the frozen tundra. Wearing white to blend in with the all too frequent July and August snow storms. Hunting polar bears on the ice flows of Toronto. Moving to the summer hunting ground every spring when the igloos melt. And to top it off our govt. funded subteranian speaker factories are pumping out the best values in speakers. What a country we live in!

those crazy canadians, I even know one thats been hiding in Texas trying to mascarade as a cowboy

[Buckeyefan 1]

Well, I thought that I had ordered the last pair of Athena F2s from Amazon for $173 each. They arrived yesterday and they were F2.2s. I am a little bummed about that. The previous model was a little heavier.

Jeff,

Does this make you feel any better? Those prices are each.
http://www.bizrate.com/search/search__cat_id--11560000,prod_id--6553707,sort--,userzip--43230,zip_go--Calculate.html
http://shopping.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AmmWTBBm4df0_Jdp9omyS6gbFt0A;_ylu=X3oD MTBtNTA5a3RqBF9zAzE0NDg5MTE1BHNlYwNzZWFyY2g-?p=athena+speaker+f2&did=
How do they sound? How about the looks?

As long as they are internally braced, the lighter mdf shouldn't make much difference in sound quality. There's going to be poly fill in the woofer section, which practically eliminates the internal reverb. I'm sure Athena spend r/d $$ making sure the sound quality matched their previous generation units. If it cuts down on shipping charges without sacrificing sound quality, I'd say you got a great deal.

[JeffB]

I know I got a fantastic price. They also look very nice. I'll post a review of the sound at some future date. I need to make some system changes and they need to break in. I am also really curious about the BIC DV84 since a pair can be had for ~$300. I am tempted to buy the BICs and send back the loser. Although, so far, from everything that I have auditioned I think one would have to spend a lot more money to get something comparable to the Athenas.

[3db]

I'm not sure what models you've listened to, but I thought Paradigm's Performance series bested Energy's Conoisseur, and I'm a long time Energy fan. I know PSB is impressive, but the Performance series is no lackluster speaker (most everybody would agree) and will absolutely shame even higher level Polk speakers. BTW, Monitor series is Paradigm's mid level line between Performance and Reference Studio.

What bothers me about PSB is they do not make their own drivers, but use OEM's. While there's nothing inherintly wrong with this approach, I prefer companies who actually make the entire speaker, only then can they call it their own. API and Paradigm are the only two companies in Canada with this capability.

I believe PSB designs their drivers and have others build them for them which in its self is not a bad idea. They spend alot of their time in Canada's NRC research facility doing alot of testing of their speakers in general .

[3db]

:D

Save our igloo's!!!

Us Canadians are a crafty bunch. Hiding in the frozen tundra. Wearing white to blend in with the all too frequent July and August snow storms. Hunting polar bears on the ice flows of Toronto. Moving to the summer hunting ground every spring when the igloos melt. And to top it off our govt. funded subteranian speaker factories are pumping out the best values in speakers. What a country we live in!

[Johnny Canuck]

:) Most American's think you are telling the truth. That's what's so funny. Everytime I go to the states I get it. They think we live in igloos, have pet polar bears, and know Joe in Toronto. Vancouver is just 50 miles from Seattle. Winnipeg is the same from Minneapolis. Detroit is next to Toronto. The only thing seperating us is an imaginary line. Oh, and better gun laws, better beer, and better weed. And, we don't have a nutcase in charge.

Oops..sorry. Stick to audio...no politics.. :)

[jaxvon]

I agree, Canada rocks. There's actually room over there*. Not sure about the beer thing (if you count only mass-market, then yes). But you're lucky, you don't have a fundamentalist Christian in charge of your country.

[3db]

I agree, Canada rocks. There's actually room over there*. Not sure about the beer thing (if you count only mass-market, then yes). But you're lucky, you don't have a fundamentalist Christian in charge of your country.

Extremist being it Muslim, Christian or otherwise is always asking for trouble.

On the more important note of beer, us Canucks have some awesome microbreweries.... Umm to all you Canucks out there, is Sleemans still considered a microbrewery or is it too big now? They make some of the best Honey Brown Lager I've ever tasted. :p

[Johnny Canuck]

Honey Brown Lager is my fave too..Sleemans is great and so is Rickards.

No, we don't drink, for the most part mass produced piss up here. Too many good smaller microbreweries. Especially in B.C.

While it's true Bush is a madman, our leader is for the most part, his puppet.