Request for pro amp reviews

[Adam]

Gene,

I respect that you wanted a dedicated thread for this. Based on discussions in other threads, I for one would appreciate it if AH would review some pro amps and compare them against consumer amps. Some people believe that the pro amps perform just as well for less money/less weight/less size. I'm very intrigued, but I'm not sold on it. I almost tried some Crown amps a month or so ago, but I honestly didn't like the looks of them.

To me, putting this to the test is right up the alley of "pursuing the truth in audio and video...." If people could save money and get the same (at least, same in their system) performance, then to me that's just like looking at cables. Why buy expensive cables when much cheaper ones do the same thing? To me, AH is about doing the right measurements to allow good comparisons between products. If the links that ADTG provided don't compare apples to apples, I'm confident that you can.

Now - who's going to help get some amps for Gene and AH to review?

[KEW]

I agree with Adam's post and think a multi amp comparison would be ideal.
However, that is asking for a major commitment of time and effort which may not be practicable.
AH already has reviews of competent consumer amps.
I'm thinking it would be more practical to review/test a single pro amp and use the results to decide what is next.
Crown XLS is often recommended, but I'd leave it to some of the more knowledgeable members to suggest a pro amp.

I can offer to ship either a Yamaha P3500S or Yamaha P7000S, but am not confident they are the best choices (their ability to run down to 2 ohms isn't near so rigorous as many other pro amps).

[Irvrobinson]

To me, putting this to the test is right up the alley of "pursuing the truth in audio and video...." If people could save money and get the same (at least, same in their system) performance, then to me that's just like looking at cables. Why buy expensive cables when much cheaper ones do the same thing? To me, AH is about doing the right measurements to allow good comparisons between products. If the links that ADTG provided don't compare apples to apples, I'm confident that you can.

There's more to Gene's comments than measurements though, even his. To quote Gene from the previous thread:

That said HIGHER power doesn't always mean better sound. I've measured lower rated power amps that sound better than higher rated power amps. Measurements don't always give a total picture on how an amp can sound. I learned long ago to NOT just rely on measurements alone since measurements represent an ideal load condition with a worse case test signal. Real music and real speakers behave much differently.

Gene is sounding a bit like Gordon Holt here, but I don't mind saying that I have felt there were qualitative differences between properly functioning amplifiers that affected my relative satisfaction with them. I always felt that any audio product that didn't measure well wasn't worth consideration, but that there was a level of discernment beyond just frequency response and THD. Not that I think that these qualitative differences can't be measured, but it might take one heck of a battery of tests to figure it out, and then I doubt the results will be definitive.

My point is that if this thread is just yet another they-all-measure-approximately-alike-so-they-must-sound-indistinguishable thread then it seems we're missing Gene's point (and perhaps mine, though to a lesser degree I suppose).

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This would be another great example of Audioholics doing something that no other publications would do!

It would be a fantastic and enlightening learning experience for sure.

The reason so many people love Emotiva is because of their performance & value.

So how does a $350 Crown XLS 1500 300wpc x 2ch 8ohm amp compare to an $800 Emotiva XPA-2 300wpc x 2ch 8ohm amp?

[fuzz092888]

My point is that if this thread is just yet another they-all-measure-approximately-alike-so-they-must-sound-indistinguishable thread then it seems we're missing Gene's point (and perhaps mine, though to a lesser degree I suppose).

I don't think that very many of the comments I've read regarding pro amps have gone the way of "they-all-measure-approximately-alike-so-they-must-sound-indistinguishable." However I think there is a valid argument for including pro-amps in the conversation when we're talking about what to use to power our home speakers. Many times guys will recommend running certain speakers right off of the AVR to many new comers just starting out, but if you can get a crown or what have you for cheap ($200-300) and it measures at least as well as the AVRs and provides much more headroom, then I think they should be included.

I have a pro amp and while it isn't class D, it's still a pro amp and I've taken it with me to a few auditions just for laughs to see how it performs against some "high end" stuff in a few stores around me. There is definitely more noise through the tweeters with the pro amp I have, but other than that I have a tough time distinguishing many differences between it and other "home audio" amps.

So I'm with Adam and ADTG on this one and I'd like to see at least one pro amp review just to see where, if anywhere, it leads. I can't think of a better way to "pursue the truth..." in anything (explore as many possibilities and avenues that is).

[Adam]

There's more to Gene's comments than measurements though, even his.

I got that from the other thread, too...so I added the "doing the right measurements to allow good comparisons between products" part. Perhaps a bit of a challenge to find the correct measurements, but it's worth the pursuit, I think. If we're just going to go the way of "measurements don't matter - I can hear a difference," then let's grab some popcorn, invite over our favorite golden ears, and line up the power cords 'cause it's time to have some fun.

[KEW]

Gene,
Your comments on this in the XPR-5 thread were a bit vague. I can understand that you did not want to start a detailed discussion on other hardware. Can you get more specific on the differences in SQ between pro and consumer amps and which models you have experience with?
Thanks!

[gene]

Guys I love this thread! You have me intrigued not only to start reviewing some of the budget pro amps but to do a listening comparison and tech article to try to understand why they sound different.

As soon as I am done with the Status Titus 8T, Pass Labs, Classe and Emotiva amp reviews, I will get on it. God help me, I'm gonna be buried for the next 4-5 months

[Irvrobinson]

If we're just going to go the way of "measurements don't matter - I can hear a difference," then let's grab some popcorn, invite over our favorite golden ears, and line up the power cords 'cause it's time to have some fun.

I didn't hear that sentiment expressed, though don't let me stop you from comparing power cords. Be sure to include those Pangea things, that for some stupid reason are composed of a variety of conductor sizes...

[Adam]

Be sure to include those Pangea things, that for some stupid reason are composed of a variety of conductor sizes...

Pangea...check. Amazon even carries them.

Although, I might save some money and just use a 14 gauge extension cable with a 16 gauge power cord - bam, sonic bliss.