Pairing AVR-3311 with Martin Logan Motion series

[slerch666]

Hello everyone!

Let me start by saying that while I am almost completely new to this hobby, given my use of a set of craptastic kit speakers for 11+ yrs. I want to upgrade but am having a difficult time understanding all the technical terms and so on, so I'm hoping for some help.

I am the happy recipient of a nice amount of money in terms of my tax returns and I am looking to upgrade my old, moldy, tinny home theater system.

Currently I have an old Pioneer AVR paired to some of the worst kit satellite speakers money could buy 11 years ago. It's time to spend some money to get an upgraded system that's not quite as embarrassing.

I have a Martin Logan Motion 8 center channel speaker I received for free through Amazon Vine that I tested to write my review and then unplugged it because it outclasses and over powers my "lovely" satellite speakers. This being the case, and giving me the ability to save a little cash on not having to buy another center speaker, I've been focusing on the Martin Logan Motion line to compliment my system. I've auditioned pretty much everything in my price range at Best Buy/Magnolia and these are the speakers I like from all they have to offer (and yes, I auditioned everything they had available, not just the MLs and still I like the MLs best):

2x Martin Logan Motion 12
2x Martin Logan Motion 4


Along with the:

1x Martin Logan Motion 8

already in my custody.

I plan to save money for a better sub (75w job from 7 years ago currently what I have) but can't afford that yet. Probably a 500-700 w sub as money becomes available.


What I am trying to figure out, based on the 4 ohm impedance of the Martin Logan line, is if I upgrade my AVR from the current old Pioneer (6-8 ohm rated) for a Denon AVR-3311, will it be able to ably power the Martin Logan speakers and not have a thermal shutdown? The Denon says it is rated for 6-8 ohm as well. Everything I've read said this SHOULD be capable of powering the ML's well enough, but before I drop the cash on anything I want some expert opinions from those here.

I don't plan on running the speakers or amp at max volumes, but would like a healthy amount of breathing room so to speak, built into the system.

Any assistance and information is greatly appreciated.

My reasoning for the Denon AVR-3311:

I want the 1080p upscaling ability
I want at least 125w per channel (hoping the higher power rated at 8 ohms means better ability to handle 4 ohms, but I need help here trying to figure out if my assumption here is correct)
Audio quality of the Denon is excellent (auditioned several receivers as well)
Phono capability
Web control


I was looking at the 4311, but I can't afford that and it'll be too long before I can afford it.


Thanks for reading through my lengthy post and any assistance you can offer.

[AVRat]

Yes, the 3311 should be just fine. I've read of members that I trust on AVS running some stout 4 ohm speakers without issue.

[DenPureSound]

Yes, the Denon AVR-3311CI which I have and love for it's excellent Pre/Pro, but not as an AMP.

The Denon AVR-3311CI will give you around 60W/Channel with all seven channels driven. It will NO WAY produce 125W RMS x 7 into 8 Ohm Impedance spkrs. That is really a TWO CHANNELS DRIVEN SPEC from Denon!!

Let me put it to you this way, after I had it set up with my Five Klipsch RF-82II spkrs. and was playing music in the MULTI STEREO CHANNEL MODE, so all five spkrs. and the two sub pre-outs were running, it THERMALLY PROTECTED itself at +12db. But at +12db it was super HOT, and driving LOUD for sure, but my Klipsch's said give me more POWER!! Volume goes from (-80 to +18db) on AVR.

So, what am I doing... Getting an Emotiva XPA-5 at 200W RMS per Channel x 5 into 8 Ohms, and it weighs 66# vs. the Denon AVR (Pre/pro/amp) which weighs in at 27#. Compare your Power in Watts per Weight, and you will get the picture.

That should give you the picture there. Buy the Denon at EE w/code = LSDA1229 for $793, and then buy the EMO XPA-5 at $899, but hurry as they are backordered right now!! Then your problem will be SOLVED, and plenty of Headroom, and it will OPEN UP YOUR SOUNDSTAGE.

Enjoy your Denon, it's a very nice AVR for sure, and handles the pre/pro for Audio/Video very nicely.

Look at this for db SPL -- Interesting stuff, enjoy.

[slerch666]

Awesome news!

You guys both rock and I really, really appreciate the information!

And DenPureSound, THANK YOU for the coupon code and the information! I didn't realize EE's code would work and was instead looking at the open box version of the 3311. Instead I used a 40% code and got it brand new, unopened for $812 w/ 2 day shipping!

I love it.

This forum is the best!

[Swerd]

The above post is correct that the power specs for receivers are required by the FTC to mean RMS wattage while two channels are driving an 8 ohm impedance load. But unless there were bench measurements made, saying that the Denon 3311 will give 60 wpc with all 7 channels driven is only a guess. That number seems a bit low to me, but that is just my opinion.

The real question to ask Martin Logan is how low does the impedance get on their speakers, and might that be too low for a receiver like the Denon AVR 3311. If the speakers get as low as 4 ohms, but not much lower, you should have no problems. If they go as low as 3 ohms or under, yes you may have problems.

I think the 3311 is a good receiver and will probably have no problem with your Martin Logan speakers. The good news is it has preamp output jacks for all 7 audio channels so you can add external amplification if needed. If you find the 3311 is underpowered, you can remedy it by getting an external 2-channel amp to drive the Motion 12s while using the 3311 as a preamp for those channels, and let the 3311 amp section handle the remaining channels.

[slerch666]

After reading all the posts here, I decided to head back to the local Magnolia (actually, I went to 4 Magnolia's/best Buys in the last week) to audition the speakers further. After finally finding a Best Buy where I didn't have to pull teeth to get assistance, I started focusing on the Motion 12s in particular. I spent probably 30-40 minutes listening on the Motion 12s all told last night.

At the end, I ended up asking the sales person what would be comparable to the Motion 12s and he pointed me towards the B&W section. Not being a hi-fi aficionado, I had no idea who B&W were, but gave the 685s a listen. Not much of a change between that one and the Motion 10/12s. I was told they are the "equivalent" of the 10s. Then we switched over to the 684s... and I was blown away. I spent another 30-40 minutes sampling all sorts of music and movies on them, comparing directly at random intervals and using the same music/movies for comparisons between the 684s and the Motion 12s.

I came home with... a pair of B&W 684s.

I compare it like this:

My old craptastic satellites are like they have a layer of film over them. The Motion 12 scratched away that layer of film and gave an amazing sound (anything would be amazing compared to what I had). But the Motion 12 compared to the 684 was a little more subtle. The lows were a tad lower and the highs a touch higher. The satellites would be like having 2 layers of down filled blankets over them. The Motion 12 eliminated the blankets, but compared to the 684s it was more like... removing a layer of thin cellophane from the Motion 12s. Not sure how else to describe it.

The best part was the fiance. She actually stood there with me listening. Before I went into this, she told me "I could never tell the difference between speakers." Turns out she was pretty well surprised. We auditioned the Motion 10s, 12s and the lowest of the low end Martin Logan electrostats. She loved the sound from the electrostats, she hated sitting in a compromised position to get to the sweet spot and was surprised how quickly the sound dispersed when you weren't in the sweet spot.

Then we directly compared the 684s and the 12s and she was clearly on board with the 684s, though she admitted that without comparing in the auditioning room she never would have known a difference existed. I guess I probably wouldn't have either.


Once again, thanks everyone for your time, assistance and information.